I inherited my dad's screwdrivers, and actually had some of his dad's screwdrivers. Tips are all just fine. Yet somehow everyone accepts that screwdrivers have all become disposable. When did that happen? Is it really impossible to make screwdrivers that aren't garbage anymore?
When did screwdrivers become consumable?
- Thread starter Gautama
- Start date
Wes J
Well-known member
All tools are consumable on a long enough time line. If tools truly lasted forever, there would be zero Snap On trucks selling new stuff.
What has changed is that we expect far more from our tools than dad or grand dad did. Screws are torqued tighter and made from much stronger materials now. Cars last longer and have much more exposure to salt and corrosion.
You have a handful of old screwdrivers that are in good shape. I wonder how many dozens they threw out over the years that were junk.
What has changed is that we expect far more from our tools than dad or grand dad did. Screws are torqued tighter and made from much stronger materials now. Cars last longer and have much more exposure to salt and corrosion.
You have a handful of old screwdrivers that are in good shape. I wonder how many dozens they threw out over the years that were junk.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
I have a bunch of Vaco's and always thought they were good screwdrivers but compared to the TOPTUL I now use they just couldn't take the beating the TOPTUL'S can when abused e.g., used as chisels, which I know is bad but sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do. I think there have been improvements to metallurgy that make today's top quality tools better than yesterday's. Wiha, PB Swiss, Wera make superior screwdrivers as well and I think it's just improvements in metallurgy.
Specifically with respect to Phillips screwdrivers the new DIN standards that incorporate the JIS standard make these modern Phillips grab the screw so much better that it's not even close.
Specifically with respect to Phillips screwdrivers the new DIN standards that incorporate the JIS standard make these modern Phillips grab the screw so much better that it's not even close.
6MocoA
Banned
Dennis,
Put those screwdrivers on your eBay listings Man! Also, Toptul makes this LED light socket extension bar that Im dying to get. Will you please stock that?
Bellaireroad
Well-known member
Things became disposable in the mid 60s ... Before that stuff was built to last a lifetime
I have a very Asain 2 in 1 screwdriver that just keeps going, daily use at that. Dozens of others were worn at six months of use. Some are unused for being uncomfortable handles and will not be worn out by me.
A HF freebie has been in use for a while and will not wear out. Who would have guessed?
A HF freebie has been in use for a while and will not wear out. Who would have guessed?
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
Screwdrivers aren't disposable, but they become disposable when people use them for things other than driving screws.
James-W
Well-known member
If a screwdriver isn't a disposable item, then what do you do with it if you break off the tip?
lazer50
Well-known member
I have 4 sets of screw drivers and several sets of precision and job specific sets.my favorite to use is my matco/witte i have snap on wera and a 20 year old set of craftsman professional.i dont like the handles on those but they are built the best especially the tips.i have never warranted a screwdriver and i have been a heavy equipment mechanic an industrial technician and an automotive mechanic.if people are replacing screwdrivers they are either buying cheap inferior made tools likely from asian sources.i am 50years old besides the sets i named i have multiple singles in us brands that i have had for years and are still as good as the day they were made.now on the other hand i do go thru driver bits all the time and notice a big difference especially a number 2 Phillips.when i use one and lets say on a dry wall screw on any score and it starts to strip i usually check the bit and likely its not stamped so i look for a dealt or blue point or snap on etc.if you buy quality tools and you may spend a few extra dollars and not listen to the guy that says hey i bought these harbor freight or any china brand especially use them right they will last a life time and be handed down.so when you say consumable that all depends on what you buy and how you use it.
Corndoggeh
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2016
- Messages
- 1,198
Frankly I like my blunt end chisels from harbor freight, not only are they chisels, but paint can openers, scrapers, chippers, and even a mini pry bar! Lets not forget, it was $free.99!
MDK22
Well-known member
Screwdrivers have always been consumable. They all wear out and normally quicker then everything else because screws are the most used form of fastener across the board. Quality last longer. Quality was higher years ago because it was expected to be.
Buy a set of Mayhew Cats Paw screwdrivers. FYI they are all the same color. They will last you a good long time as long as you use them as actual screwdrivers. As will Snap-On and MAC Tools. You get what you pay for...
Buy a set of Mayhew Cats Paw screwdrivers. FYI they are all the same color. They will last you a good long time as long as you use them as actual screwdrivers. As will Snap-On and MAC Tools. You get what you pay for...
Mechanical Noise
Well-known member
Screwdrivers wear out, just like anything else. Old screwdrivers didn't last any longer than the screwdrivers we have now. Difference is, the old soft steel screwdrivers were thrown out years ago but you can still find brand new crummy screwdrivers right in the store. It's entirely possible that the percentage of soft screwdrivers was higher in the old days.
I have an ancient "perfect handle" Pexto screwdriver, maybe 80 - 90 years old. The steel is soft as butter. It's not a very good screwdriver but I keep it around because it looks cool. If it wasn't sitting around in a forgotten toolbox it probably would have been thrown out around 1940.
I worked up an intense dislike for Vaco phillips screwdrivers 40 some years ago. The tips just twisted out. Maybe it was just a heat treat issue, but those were the last Vacos I ever bought.
Far as I can tell, screwdrivers are no worse now than then.
I have an ancient "perfect handle" Pexto screwdriver, maybe 80 - 90 years old. The steel is soft as butter. It's not a very good screwdriver but I keep it around because it looks cool. If it wasn't sitting around in a forgotten toolbox it probably would have been thrown out around 1940.
I worked up an intense dislike for Vaco phillips screwdrivers 40 some years ago. The tips just twisted out. Maybe it was just a heat treat issue, but those were the last Vacos I ever bought.
Far as I can tell, screwdrivers are no worse now than then.
mjoekingz28
Well-known member
Maybe because phillips screws easily ingest dirt, sand, grime, etc. into the head.
In the middle of the screwhead where the x is could be sand and grind the screwdriver tip as you are driving it.
Maybe wire brushing dirty or rusted screws could prevent some of this from happening.
In the middle of the screwhead where the x is could be sand and grind the screwdriver tip as you are driving it.
Maybe wire brushing dirty or rusted screws could prevent some of this from happening.
finn
Well-known member
I have a dozen or so screwdrivers from the 30s through the 60s that came from my father and grandfather.
They are all junk, and look like they always were junk, best suited for opening paint cans.
One exception is a "made in Germany " forged shank with an artfully designed wooden handle insert that looks somewhat cool. Even that one is too worn to use, though.
They are all junk, and look like they always were junk, best suited for opening paint cans.
One exception is a "made in Germany " forged shank with an artfully designed wooden handle insert that looks somewhat cool. Even that one is too worn to use, though.
sberry
Banned
I have survivors from all classes, some make it some don't and new is better.
Al Borland
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2016
- Messages
- 1,598
When did screwdrivers become consumables???
When were screwdrivers invented?
When were screwdrivers invented?
kd3pc
Well-known member
I would disagree...I expect tool tips on screwdrivers to be MUCH more reliable today, than in the 70's . Those old tools were made with no computers, no custom metallurgy, no CNC and the like. MY 1973 Klein electrician's screwdrivers have held up well and will outperform the new "Klein's" of today.
Hardware, screws included, are by and large - Garbage today. Nothing is made to spec, and in a box of 100 special screws, 20 will be bent, incomplete, flawed or some other aspect, bad. That is before it even gets used. Then the "new" hardware fails, because it is NOT what the box says it is...cheap pot metal, when the box says - stainless.
I had a lift kit, from a custom manufacturer who has been in business for decades, that had 8 custom, plated, cap screws to hold the billet to the top arm...three of the first four stripped when tightened with a 1/4" drive socket. Called them, and they said yes, they got a few boxes of "bad" ones....go get some from a local source.
As to cars lasting longer, also not true..they are made to be disposable, and that is what keeps my business booming, trying to keep them on the road, so you don't have to buy a new one. New England salt still kills thousands every month, just like they did 40 years ago.
pepi
Well-known member
First answer, when hacks started to use them as a chisel and pry-bars. For sure the common screwdriver, is the floppy disc of screwdrivers.
Generally speaking, every fastener company keeps reinventing the wheel so folks need another yellow handle in the tool box.
I am guessing that they are almost out of ideas, for the concave fastener, expecting convex in the future .
Sell, sell, sell, keep those drawers full..
Generally speaking, every fastener company keeps reinventing the wheel so folks need another yellow handle in the tool box.
I am guessing that they are almost out of ideas, for the concave fastener, expecting convex in the future .
Sell, sell, sell, keep those drawers full..
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Hawk
Well-known member
You do like they did in the "good old days" you made scratch awls, used them for can openers, and pry bars as needed. The reason you see "some" old tools (screwdrivers included) that look like new was in most cases, Price. Though by today's income the prices appear cheap, you have to think about a mans personal income. Not much by today's standards. so a screwdriver was used as a screwdriver, not a churchkey, or an awl. When one broke, then it was reground or if need be replaced, and instead of wasting the old one, a new use was created.
Strouty
Well-known member
The user of the tool is what makes a particular tool consumable, not all tools are created equal and some tools have better tools using them.
finn
Well-known member
I guess you never drove cars in the salt forty years ago.
They lasted four or five years back then, and the county didn't use nearly as much salt back then.
As for your cap screw example, that's typical aftermarket quality from small, mostly mail order small businesses. They spend more money on advertising than on engineering and sourcing quality hardware and components.
lazer50
Well-known member
I've already posted but from years of experience in using and buying tools when it comes to screwdrivers if guys are considering them consumables they either buy cheap junk or they may have good ones and use them improperly i have sets that are 40 years old and the tips are still good now thats because they were handed down from my dad and he taught me to use them correctly.the first ones i bought are 35 years old and are us craftsman and still have complete set.the newest ones i own are ten years old and are soft grip and thats the only draw back is cleaning them but when id they look brand new.when you value your tools even screwdrivers and buy quality use them correctly your not running back to the local big box store or auto parts store wal mart etc buying inferior tools over time that adds up.i will never need to buy another screwdriver unless i need something special which i doubt and i will hand my tools down to my son.
Superbec
Well-known member
it's actually so sad that someone even thinks like that
I'm one of those guys who fix **** people that think screwdrivers last forever kill every day
No , your family heirloom is not lasting forever with proper use, it is either that it's never been actually used or it's so bad you can't actually see any difference .
Do you even try to compare my wera , wiha, PB Swiss with your 40 year old Craftsman ? are you kidding?
NO OLD **** didn't last longer , the steel wasn't better , the quality went down for your favorite brand, that's all .
kctyphoon
Banned
Simple answer - they became consumables when they invented screws.
"When did screwdrivers become consumable?"
When the idiot before you didn't replace the f'd up fastener that he messed up.
BTW, that's what hand impact drivers are for. I think this is the main reason my screwdrivers last as long as they do, I've used hand impacts on stuck or screwed up fasteners since I was taught to use tools many many years ago. This and the fact that I replace f'd up fasteners...
When the idiot before you didn't replace the f'd up fastener that he messed up.
BTW, that's what hand impact drivers are for. I think this is the main reason my screwdrivers last as long as they do, I've used hand impacts on stuck or screwed up fasteners since I was taught to use tools many many years ago. This and the fact that I replace f'd up fasteners...
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Get the shaft replaced
I learned in auto shop class almost 30 years ago how to redress a screwdriver tip on a grinder. Disposable or simply serviceable?
Undeniable - cars last longer than years past! The bad news, the car manufacturer will determine a drop dead date when your car is kuput because they will cease supporting the software!
Undeniable - vehicles are rusting away at unbelievable rates in the snow belt due to the liquid brine sprayed on the road that towns, city's & highway departments have fallen in love with!
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Undeniable - cars last longer than years past! The bad news, the car manufacturer will determine a drop dead date when your car is kuput because they will cease supporting the software!
Undeniable - vehicles are rusting away at unbelievable rates in the snow belt due to the liquid brine sprayed on the road that towns, city's & highway departments have fallen in love with!
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Here in Colorado they use something other than salt to melt the ice (I want to say it's magnesium chloride?). We don't have the same rusting issues, but that may also be because it's so dry here in terms of humidity. Things dry out very quickly.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts on the topic. There's certainly no agreement on whether screwdrivers have gotten worse over time, or whether they're even disposable at all. Maybe, like so many other things, the answer isn't that simple.
I feel like people often resort to black and white thinking because they don't feel adequately informed enough to make decisions. "All screwdrivers are garbage." "USA made tools are always the best ones to buy." "Harbor Freight is ****." I wish people would stop thinking in extremes. Not everything has to be the BEST or the WORST. Sometimes (I would dare to say most of the time) things are far more nuanced. I tend to be cautious of anyone who speaks in black and white terms, as my experience has shown me that they're usually the least informed about the topic, maybe because they lack the experience to see that things aren't so simple.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts on the topic. There's certainly no agreement on whether screwdrivers have gotten worse over time, or whether they're even disposable at all. Maybe, like so many other things, the answer isn't that simple.
I feel like people often resort to black and white thinking because they don't feel adequately informed enough to make decisions. "All screwdrivers are garbage." "USA made tools are always the best ones to buy." "Harbor Freight is ****." I wish people would stop thinking in extremes. Not everything has to be the BEST or the WORST. Sometimes (I would dare to say most of the time) things are far more nuanced. I tend to be cautious of anyone who speaks in black and white terms, as my experience has shown me that they're usually the least informed about the topic, maybe because they lack the experience to see that things aren't so simple.
James-W
Well-known member
You are right, you can certainly do that with a broken screwdriver. But as soon as you cut off the end and re-purpose it you no longer have a screwdriver. I guess you could say that a screwdriver is a disposable item that can be turned into another disposable item without very much effort.
James-W
Well-known member
I am sure that could be done, but I have never heard of it being done anywhere around here. Do you happen to know where to take it/send it and do you know about how much it would cost to have that done? Is it economically practical to replace the shaft? I am not trying to put you on the spot, I am just curious about it.
Costs nothing with truck brands
Superbec
Well-known member
This is not a philosophical debate , there sure is the best and the worst screwdriver in the world and that's not that hard to find .
Maybe finding the worst is more of a challenge being so many "brands"
There actually is a thread around here with scientifically conducted tests on the most well known( good ones) drivers from around the world.
Short Round
Well-known member
Dremmel a hook in the end facing the handle and a V in the tip and use it for a spring puller and pusher.
I got a Christmas gift one year, a set of Stanley screwdrivers around 2005. I already had Craftsman stuff but what the hey. Well the first time I used a slotted tip screwdriver in that set 80% of the tip fell off. Stanley ain't what it used to be. Sometimes defects crop up no matter the brand. I have a set of Forster Bonanza gunsmithing screw drivers and one of theirs did the same thing on the second or third use.
dutchgray
Well-known member
That is something that only happens in America.
Every where else you go and buy a new screwdriver.
Kaervak
Well-known member
Depends on the quality of the driver. I have a lot of my dad's old screwdrivers and most of them are torn up but they are dirt cheap junk brands. There are a couple gems, like one SK-Wayne flat head that is in very good shape. The rest are a plentiful supply of future chisels or awls though. 
Anyway, I see a lot of old Craftsman drivers (Usually marked Vanadium or Forged on the handle, not sure of age range) at the Habitat ReStore and always buy them regardless of condition. The Philips drivers are always in pretty good shape but the flat heads are almost always shot, probably from abuse. I've picked up a couple Snap-On drivers from the restore too and one was pretty chewed up, but the other two are pretty good.
My main screwdrivers are the clear acetate handle Craftsman drivers, red/black Craftsman Pro, Craftsman cushion grip and Husky Pro drivers. I'm not a mechanic and I don't use them day in and day out so they're all in great shape after quite a few years, but under heavy use I'm not sure how they would fare. With that said, the one Husky Pro 3/16 flat head is my go to multi purpose tool. Chisel, pry bar, scraper, awl, nail remover, occasional knife, you name it. I've beat on that driver for years and it's holding up fine. The better brands will always hold up to a beating better than the cheese metal brands in any environment.
Anyway, I see a lot of old Craftsman drivers (Usually marked Vanadium or Forged on the handle, not sure of age range) at the Habitat ReStore and always buy them regardless of condition. The Philips drivers are always in pretty good shape but the flat heads are almost always shot, probably from abuse. I've picked up a couple Snap-On drivers from the restore too and one was pretty chewed up, but the other two are pretty good.
My main screwdrivers are the clear acetate handle Craftsman drivers, red/black Craftsman Pro, Craftsman cushion grip and Husky Pro drivers. I'm not a mechanic and I don't use them day in and day out so they're all in great shape after quite a few years, but under heavy use I'm not sure how they would fare. With that said, the one Husky Pro 3/16 flat head is my go to multi purpose tool. Chisel, pry bar, scraper, awl, nail remover, occasional knife, you name it. I've beat on that driver for years and it's holding up fine. The better brands will always hold up to a beating better than the cheese metal brands in any environment.
sberry
Banned
Not really true, you pay in todays dollars they can replace at cost if and when needed. Most warranty is un used.
When I take a hard handle into a snap on truck, it costs me nothing to get a new shaft.
I'd be interested to read it but a search didn't turn anything up. Do you possibly have a link you could share?