Car suggestions/Advice... who me?

[stimpee]

I'll put in another vote for an E46M3. I have owned my 2003 for 3 years now and I LOVE the car. I was a motorcycle guy before (both street and track), and recently went thru my annual mid-life crisis and almost got myself a track bike again, but with 4 little ones at home, just doesnt make sense.

The car is an awesome daily driver, but is a bit cold blooded, and mostly useless in snow. Maintenance can be a bit expensive unless you do it yourself. The cars aren't anything magical or horrible in that area though, so nothing to fear. You will have a nice garage, and there are plenty of resources on the forums to do anything you need to do on it.

I just had my alternator go on mine. $800+ job at the dealer, part was under $300 which is no worse than any foreign car, and I fixed it myself in under an hour (as an example).

It can be a great track car (which I plan to experience soon), perhaps a bit ponderous for serious autocrossing but if you want to go out and have fun, it will suit very well.

The car is a STEAL at what you can pick them up for these days. And with a slight drop, and some nice wheels, it is an awesome looking machine (in my opinion). And although I love the sound of a nice V8, especially a high revving one like in the new E90M3, the straight 6 sounds pretty wicked at 8000 rpm...

And as for space, as I mentioned, I have 4 kids. Haul 3 of them with me quite regularly, and just recently bought a rear middle shoulder belt retrofit kit for the car so as my smallest outgrows the car seat with integral harness I will still be able to haul all 4 in it with shoulder belts in a pinch...



GTO or CTSV would be excellent candidates as well, but I can't get past the visual "boringness" of the GTO, and the CTSV is a bit heavy, and they appear to have a decent number of rear-end problems if driven hard.

Good luck. You have the hard part under control (the garage construction), the car should be a fun decision!

I have the car, but my 2-car 400sqft attached garage is not cutting it, so I am trying to plan, and scrape to build something bigger!

Steve

 

[ecniv]

Without reading the entire thread, I don't know if someone has suggested this already, but, take a look at the E39 540i. It's not an M5, but they have great power, handle beautifully, and are extremely family friendly. The price on them is very reasonable, and the 6 speed, sport package cars are amazingly fun to drive. I REALLY miss mine.

I currently drive an E46 330ci, and while it's a great car, it doesn't even come close to my 5 series.

 

[PistolWhip]

There's no better bang for the buck than a 2003/2004 Cobra. Stock they run low 12's, get 20+ MPG, will fit a couple of kids comfortably and have the base for a very capable road track car. With a little bit of tuning and a few minor suspension mods you can have a mid 11 second car that can carve up the street, fit a kid or two and still be a very formidable road course car.
If you look in the right places, you can easily find them in the mid $20k's with low miles and most of the work you'd want already done.
The fact that they have completely forged rotating assemblies and blowers from the factory, strong 6 speed trannies and a well built IRS out back is just gravy. Parts are VERY easy to get, relatively cheap and they respond very well to minor modifications.

I bought my Coupe for $24k two years ago with 7k miles on it. I spent a few bucks on it after that and now have a car that runs consistent 10's at the drag strip, can comfortably cruise just about anywhere with the A/C on, get 20 MPG and I'd have to bet that it would be very capable on a road course with a good driver. If I really wanted to push it, I could probably get it into the very low 10's on a race tune with high octane fuel. Not a bad looking car either.

 

[thewelder]

05-06 GTO.
Or you could call it a Holden Monaro (I love you Aussies) LS2 V8 and you can get one with under 50k for about 17k, maybe cheaper.

With your budget that leaves 13k for upgrades and you dont need that much money to make it an awesome all around car. Plus Im 6'0" and i can fit in the backseat relatively comfortable so its perfect for the kids.

Very easy to work on and a blast to drive, as long as its a m6.

 

[ripsnortMN]

My buddy has a newer miata that he put an LS1 in with a six speed. I will say that it is the fastest,lightest best handling car I have ever ridden in. These cars in stock form have a perfect 50/50 weight balance. Even with the Ls1 in it its still pretty close. Coming out of the corners is like getting your teeth pulled out.

 

[TRC51]

My buddy has a newer miata that he put an LS1 in with a six speed. I will say that it is the fastest,lightest best handling car I have ever ridden in. These cars in stock form have a perfect 50/50 weight balance. Even with the Ls1 in it its still pretty close. Coming out of the corners is like getting your teeth pulled out.

Ummmmm... any pics? That sounds like a project right there.

 

[ahaidet]

I know you have dismissed the STI WRX a few times... but have you driven one?

If you blind folded me set me in one and had me start an Auto-X run in one and didn't tell me the car was a turbo 4 cylinder I would swear to you it had a V8. The sound of the flat four has a great "burble/rumble." Consistently they are some of the fastest 4 door autocross cars you will find. I rode in one that fit in the STU class (street tires no wild modifications, basic engine re-tune, coil overs, exhaust.. ) It was a mind blowing experience and I have autocrossed Formula SAE race cars. The driver of it finished a few tenths of a second behind a Super Stock C6 Z06 Corvette on race slicks (Z06 driver finishes mid pack usually at SCCA national autocrosses, so he is no slouch when it comes to driving talent)

My buddy’s dad has an 03 M5... but his autocross car is a 08 WRX STI and before that it was an 07 WRX STI.

I have autocrossed a GTO and was not overly impressed. The steering feels "numb"; the engine was impressive though.

Every time I buy a car I get TOO into reading all the specs and reviews. The best thing I find is to go out and drive as many good examples of cars I might be interested and then sit down and compare details. I sometimes find that I am impressed with how something drives that I was not expecting.

Side note CTS-V seems like a heck of a car and I have considered it as my replacement to my WRX some day. But I would not plan to autocross it just because of how heavy they are, but I have an MR2 project that will get plenty of auto-x runs on it.

Just my two cents...

Enjoy the shopping experience though its a great opportunity to try out a lot of cars you have not driven before.

 

[ahaidet]

Oh by the way. I have driven the new 335 BMW's they are impressive with the inline 6 twin turbo. Grassroots Motorsports has an interesting series of articles on taking a 335 and making it faster than the current generation V8 M3 for less money and still keeping it civilized. A few months ago they had an article where they made more power with a few bolt on/ tuning mods than the V8 M3. Next issue they are working on handling. As great as the E46 M3's are... unless you find a really clean one I would look at the newer 335 as they are pretty close performance wise and the 335 has a lot of bang for your buck mods being factory turbo charged.

 

[cashishift]

Newest STi would be something to look at..

but before i would buy an older CTS-V (they had issues with the rear diff ) i would surely be looking for a newer Pontiac G8 GXP.. HOT car.. 6spd, big brakes, etc.

 

[fotoflojoe]

Following this thread, I've decided to get another e46 M3. Getting rid of my last one - while necessary at the time - was probably the dumbest thing I ever did.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[wagonmaster]

I do not believe the northstar was ever used in a CTS-V. They have the LS (LS6 2004-2005, LS2 2006-2007, and LS9 2009) series engines.

You are exactly right, I know that and worded my response badly. The Northstar is available on other Caddies as well and is good, but the LS1-LS6 are the top dog as far as I'm concerned. I have a 6.0 in my 1939 Chevy sedan and it does a pretty fair job pulling it along.

 

[TRC51]

Wow... my head is spinning in three different directions! Awesome!

I forgot the 04 Cobras had IRS in them... and the fact that they have forged internals makes a hell of difference knowing that a super charger is on them. I can't be sure, but I don't think companies like Roush, Steeda and Saleen go into the motor when they bolt on their Superchargers. Not sure how I feel about that. Any Mustang lovers out there?

I looked at the G8. Would love to get one, but it seems a reasonable one cannot be had for less than $35k. A lot of people riding the "most powerfull Pontiac ever made", "Rare collector car" bus. I saw some used ones for $43k!

I have driven and STI back when the HP was in the 270 range. It's just not my thing. The sound is not a V8 to me... it just sounds like an 8 that's misfiring. To me anyway.

I read the problems about the CTSV and the diff problems. That turned me off pretty quick. No surprise though, diffs and transmissions are GM staples. Almost everyone my family has owned has needed them. Yet, I still like them for some reason. I hate to take it off the list.

I will have to see if I can get a look at an M3 or drive it. I need to "yes or no" that car.

 

[A_Pmech]

TRC,

When you find a BMW M3 / 328 etc to take for a spin, be sure to look under the hood.

I think you'll be surprised at what you see, they're really a joy to work on. Be sure to note the location of the remote oil filter.

 

[milkovich]

x2 on the LS1 miata. It's like a cobra kit car without the "gold chain" stigma.

Other possible candidates are the FD RX7 or 240SX. Both great handling cars with junk engines (I apologize in advance to all the rotary guys who like their 300 horsepower time bombs).

 

[vette-kid]

You are exactly right, I know that and worded my response badly. The Northstar is available on other Caddies as well and is good, but the LS1-LS6 are the top dog as far as I'm concerned. I have a 6.0 in my 1939 Chevy sedan and it does a pretty fair job pulling it along.

LS9 is top dog!!!

TRC, I hadnt really heard about the diff problems. thats interesting to me. Ill have to look into it and see what they are using. Like I said though, I have a 2002 LS6 Corvette and it has proven pretty much bullet proof. that seems to be the standard with these overall. I would guess the V to have the same rear-end option that the Z06 had (MN12).

I agree with you on the G8. Looks like a great car, but people are crazy with their prices. Seems like everyone expects them to be instant classics.

 

[OUNATE]

Volvo S60R or V70R 300hp AWD and you can get a 6spd, there probably are not a lot of people that are volvo fans but they are indestructible and you'd be surprised if you drive one. Good luck

 

[GreenRodder]

If you like the SRT8's you can pick up the challenger with a tremec 6 speed. It's a little lighter then the chargers, 2 doors, and a little shorter, but still has tons of room for the kids in the back as well as a huge trunk, might bust the budget a little but definitely worth it because it does everything well. The 03-04 Cobra's are a great car as well. Quite a bit smaller on the inside and out but the aftermarket for these cars are crazy. Ultra fast, light and irs since you want to do some racing. Honestly though, if I was in your shoes, I'd pick up a basket case poney car, late 60's to early 70's and start building it the way I want it, much more rewarding in the end and it would actually be an investment, where most of these cars people are talking about will be worth nothing for quite a few years to come.

I respect the v8 choice and that you tend to be leaning away from all the jap scrap that's been mentioned. In the long run I see these 4 bangers with their hair dryers failing miserably. I don't think they're made to stand the test of time. Surprises me to hear so much of it suggested though, I would have figured GJ to be as pro US as the Hamb. Guess not.

 

[Stinger]

I forgot the 04 Cobras had IRS in them... and the fact that they have forged internals makes a hell of difference knowing that a super charger is on them. I can't be sure, but I don't think companies like Roush, Steeda and Saleen go into the motor when they bolt on their Superchargers. Not sure how I feel about that. Any Mustang lovers out there?

The aftermarket companies typically do not upgrade the internals. The stock internals 3 valve or 4 valve engines are safe to around 500rwhp as long as the tune is good. After that it's time to put in forged pistons and better rods. The crank and block is good for much more power. The factory supercharged versions have made 1000+rwhp without ever having the valve covers off though. They are bulletproof!

That being said, I think you would be more than happy with a Mustang. The thing about them is there is NO car on the market with more aftermarket support than the Mustang. If there is ANYTHING you don't like about it (handling, power, braking, looks, etc.) there are at least 20 options for you to choose between that will upgrade that portion of the performance. You can make a Mustang what YOU want it to be.

 

[robertearl]

How about a C5 Corvette and a used Altima. You sould be able to do that for around 35K. After all, you do not haul the kids around all of the time.

Reb

 

[rsanter]

the mustang will have lots of go fast goodies available, lots of suport for them and the parts will be easy to get for many years

bob

 

[TRC51]

Actually, Volvo are great cars! Not many people remember they were raced competitively for many years. Loved seeing the old 8 series wagons slamming around the race course. My parents have a 95 - 960. Has been an awesome car to them and they are still driving it every day. The only problem is.... not a V8. I really would like to stick with the 8. I heard a Mustang and a Camaro today with exhaust on them... it's like music to me. I usually turn the radio off and follow them for a while just to listen to it. I'm not kidding.

You know, I'm surprised that I have let the Challenger out of my radar. You can pick up an R/T used these days for $30K or less. They make 375hp I think... not too shabby. I love the look too. I think the only reason I got turned off... well, was because my wife doesn't like it, but that's not the real reason. Has anyone seen the episode of Top Gear on You tube when they come to the states and test the ZR1, new CTSV and the Chally? If you didn't... try and find it... hillarious and eye opening. Best show IMO. Regardless, the dismissed the chally as being a very poor handler. I should drive one though.

 

[TRC51]

:lol I like the idea of having a Vette and a grocery getter. I just don't want that many cars. The reason I want a do it all car is because I plan on doing it all with it. I hate it when stuff sits idle in my garage.

Stinger:

So back to my oringial post. I have the opportunity to pick up an 07 pushing 475 - 493 (with an aggressive tune at 10psi) using a FRP whipple supercharger. Based on your 500 number, I would say that running that car at 475 should be reasonably safe... motor wise? Even so, what can the driveline of the new Mustangs handle? Even if the motor doesn't grenade, will I be replacing the ****** with a tremec, then the drive shaft, then the rear end to handle the added power? It really is a great deal. Only 4,000 miles on the car and at least 15K in mods. The intercooled charger was $7K alone and another 2K for the tune. Should I go back to looking at this car? Will it be something I can take the kids on a 2 - 3 hour drive with? Drive to work, etc.

 

[Stinger]

The transmission shouldn't be an issue aside from a clutch swap (if it hasn't been done already). The rear is plenty strong as is the driveshaft. I agree that it does sound like a great deal if there aren't any "hidden" problems.

I wouldn't have any reservations about driving it to work, taking the kids for a drive in it, etc. It should be very reliable in everyday driving.

 

[PistolWhip]

To those inquiring about Mustangs and Cobras:
Saleen, Roush, Shelby and Steeda don't usually break into the engine internals for their factory built production cars. They are usually just body kits and suspension mods and then for the higher end (or higher stage) cars, a blower, tune and some supporting mods.

I've built more Mustangs over the years than I care to remember, but I can tell you from extensive experience that none of them have ever given you the platform form the factory to produce the kind of power that the 03/04 Cobras did.
In late 1992 they stopped putting forged pistons in the 5.0, replacing them with Hypereutectic pistons which is fine for a naturally aspirated street car, but not at all fine for boosted or nitrous applications. The rods were sintered metal and the cranks are cast steel. That continued all the way into the 3V 4.6 engines. I don't have any experience with 3V engines at this point, but the stock internals in the 2V cars will not hold up long in applications north of 400-450 RWHP. It's almost impossible to get a naturally aspirated 2V to make that kind of power and when you start introducing the kind of boost that's required to get you there, the bottom ends start to reach their limits. I've been there and done it and I can tell you that no matter who the tuner is, it's not an easy feat to get them to stay together at 500 RWHP. I built a 500+ RWHP 2V and it was EXPENSIVE and ended with a completely forged bottom end. I have pictures of the aftermath from a 2V engine with 10 PSI from a ProCharger and they aint pretty. If anyone wants to see them I can post them up.

The Cobra on the other hand comes from the factory with a forged steel 8 bolt crank, modified Manley "H-Beam" rods with ARP cap bolts, descent forged pistons and a phenomenal set of heads and cams. Mr. Coletti was also kind enough to give us a very efficient water to air intercooler system that can move and cool A LOT of air. The stock M112 Eaton blower is the only "stumbling block" that keeps the car at levels of sanity, but nothing more than a descent port job and smaller pulley has you staring in the face of 500 RWHP and 500 RWTQ. Remove the Eaton and add a Kenne Bell or Whipple and 600+ RWHP is easily reached and tolerated by the stock engine platform. I've seen plenty of 800+ RWHP turbo Cobras running stock internals also. Most guys find that the engines are built to such tight tolerances that the piston to wall clearance becomes the limiting factor in HP before any part failure does. Did I mention that it has 3.55 gears from the factory too??

A lot of people will tell you that the IRS is a weak link, but in all honesty, I think its a godsend. The half shafts are often touted as being weak and prone to failure, but I've never seen anyone break an actual half shaft, its a misconception. A lot of people have broken CV joints, but the axle shaft itself is basically a 31 spline axle modified to accept CV's and work as an IRS half shaft. With the right supporting mods, the IRS is plenty strong and can provide some serious grip in the curves. For an all out drag car, you can't beat a solid axle, but the IRS is second to none in the curves and on the street if you ask me.

My car has a stock clutch, stock T56 ****** with an aftermarket shifter, stock IRS with a few minor upgrades, stock engine and lower pulley and a mildly modified suspension. The power mods consist of a Whipple 2.3L Twin Screw blower with a slightly smaller pulley, fuel system upgrade, a good safe street (pump fuel) tune and some other bolt on supporting mods and it made 585 RWHP and with a drag wheel and tire set up goes consistent 10.80's at 130 MPH with a lot left in it. With my normal street wheels and tires, it's gone a best of 11.19 at 129. That's at almost 4000 pounds (with me in it) and with all of the creature comforts still installed and functional. A/C, a full aftermarket stereo system, all the factory seating, power everything and driven to the track and back with 93 octane fuel and no additives.

I have pictures of most of the build process from my last 2V build as well as all of the mods that I've done to my two Cobras. If you guys want to see anything specific, just let me know and I'll post up.

 

[TRC51]

OK... so I went for a drive tonight to scope the lots. Haven't done that in a while and I wanted to check out all the prospects without the vultures. Luckily one lot had 4 all in one area to compare (GTO, Mustang, Challenger and Camaro). All were well equiped cars. Here is the verdict (apologies in advance to anyone who might be offended):

Camaro - Would be great bang for the buck if you can find someone to sell it to you for sticker. $36K would get you a well equipped SS... but the dealer wants 46K... and that's used!

Challenger - I don't know... for some reason I don't like the interior. And when placed next to the others, it looks bloated. I like the charger... I have no idea why I don't like the interior of the Chally.

GTO - It's all there. The price is right, the power is right, lots of room in the back, perfromance is there, nice interior.... but I didn't notice it was there until I was on the way out of the parking lot. I wish my eye liked it... this would be a lot easier.

Mustang - Love the looks, love the interior, not as much power as the others unless I get the Shelby, Roush or the personally modded car like the one I am looking at (which comes with no warranty on much of anything that matters).

BTW, while at the dealership with these cars I got to see my mistress. Please don't tell my wife have been having a love afair with the car below all summer (cause that's how long they have had it):

http://buzzlot.com/root/includes/sh...).jpg&showContact=N&lang=US&forceResize=False


I also went to the BMW dealer. I couldn't find an M3, but I did manage to come across a NEW M5. OMG what a car! Surprisinngly though, I found it to have not much more room in the back than the cars mentioned above. I checked to see if the front seats were moved all the way back, but they seemed to driver positioned for what I would choose (6 footer). I can't imagine the room in the back would be even that good in the 04 M3 I was looking at. BUT, that was not the reason I am moving from the bimmer. I just realized that BMW is waaaaaaaaayyyyyy to classy of a car for a guy like me. As much as I would love to own one, I don't think it's right for me. I'm not much off of what you would call a dressed up red-neck.

So where does that leave me? I have yet to see a CTSV in person, and that is still on the short list. I like the Mustang for interior, exterior, parts availability and everything else, so I think that is at the top right now. The only downside is the cost for a 400hp model. In addition, the 2003 and 2004 Cobras are definitely still in contention, but I am having trouble finding any in the sub $25K range that are worth looking at. I say "sub $25K" because if I am going to spend much more, I might as well buy the 07 I mentioned.... which is starting to look better by the minute. I will put a pic in for your review.

BTW, I think I have decided that anything I buy now will be temporary until I can afford a used 2010 or better GT500. Holy Schnikies! Saw it tonight on a lot in gunmetal gray.... what an absolutely beautiful car.

 

[PistolWhip]

Go to SVTperformance.com and look in "The Market" and then "Terminator Buy/Sell". You'll find tons of Cobras in the price range your looking for.

The 2010 GT500 is absolutely sick looking, but the draw back is that they went back to the weaker bottom end in the GT500's. They no longer have the forged internals like the 03/04's had. On the up side, you get a better blower from the factory and a 5.4 instead of the the 4.6. The GT500 also has a soid axle instead of the IRS. The bottom ends have been holding up very well on them at 600+ RWHP even without the forged internals like the 03/04.

 

[PistolWhip]

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...l-254/634678-fs-competition-orange-coupe.html

That link will bring you to a Comp Orange 04 that already has a ported Eaton blower and some other nice supporting mods. It doesn't exactly have "collector" car mileage, but at 41k miles it's still pretty low considdering the car is 5 years old and they say they don't really even "break in" until 20k. The add says it made 486 RWHP, but I'd bet with a better tune it would easily make 500. Price is $22,500.

 

[PistolWhip]

Here are a few examples of the deals you can get off of SVTperformance.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...5746-fs-2004-comp-orange-cobra-11k-miles.html

Here's another 04 Comp Orange with 11k miles. The asking price is $26,999 but I'd bet you could get it for $25 if you showed up with cash in hand. This one also has a ported blower, supporting mods and appears to be VERY meticulously maintaned.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...254/619092-red-10th-aniversary-2-6kb-sra.html

This one is a Torch Red 10th Anniversery with a Kenne Bell on it. It has 38k on it and the asking price is $24k. Made 580 RWHP and has a lot left on the table if you ask me.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...l-254/633068-2004-redfire-cobra-coupe-fl.html

Here's a Red Fire 03 with a ported Eaton and supporting mods, Nitrous and 40k miles. The asking price is $21,500. He said it made 494 RWHP on the blower only.

 

[vette-kid]

TRC, nice little review! Im not suprised to hear that about the Camaro. Im nt sure why, but Chevy dealers seem to be having a hay day of selling Camaro's and Vette's WAY over sticker! People must be paying it though!

Id really be interested to hear your review of the CTSV as compared to the BMW's you looked at. Let us know if you get your hands on a first gen (what the heck, why not go drive a second gen for the heck of it!)

Or another approach...skip all of em and put your money towards that Z! You will NOT regret it!

 

[TAftw]

I second the CTS-V. I believe the 09 comes with 556 RWHP, and I think thats the best bang for the buck you can get.

 

[Stinger]

I second the CTS-V. I believe the 09 comes with 556 RWHP, and I think thats the best bang for the buck you can get.

GT500 540hp $45000
CTSV 556hp $60000

 

[Stinger]

Double Post

 

[Fiberglass Fred]

I currently own 2 of the cars you're looking at (05 Mustang and 03 E39 BMW).

The BMW runs circles around the Mustang. No comparison. Yes, repairs are more expensive and more often on the BMW. But that is the only place where the Mustang excels. The BMW is better in all other ways. The E39 M5 is an awesome car.

So far, I've owned 2 different 5 series, and 5 different Mustangs. I plan to buy another M5 in the next couple of years. I doubt I ever buy another Mustang (at least not one built after 1970)

 

[TRC51]

GT500 540hp $45000
CTSV $60000

Agreed... a little out of the price range.

 

[PistolWhip]

I second the CTS-V. I believe the 09 comes with 556 RWHP, and I think thats the best bang for the buck you can get.

I wish I had the kind of money that would allow me to call a $60K car, "bang for the buck."

 

[antolod]

I love my '07 Sublime Daytona Charger, auto-stick and all.

With the MDS I have a lifetime average of about 19 MPG over the 30k miles I have put on it so far.

There is one for sale in Lancaster, OH posted on LXforums.com with less than 5k miles for $24,500.00. I don't know what options is has, but mine listed for $38k with everything but Nav.

You can find all kinds of information there (LXforums) about what people are doing to/with the LX (Magnum, 300, Charger) for racing. The current 1/4 mile record on the board is [email protected] for a SRT8 Magnum supercharged and nitrous.

 

[E46M3]

+1 for the E46 M3. (OK, I bias if you check my sig)
I autocross and track it. I drive it to the track and back, and I drive it on the street.
If your looking for an engine, the E46M3 S54 inline 6 - 3.2 liter engine produces more torque per liter than any other naturally aspirated production engine in the world. It was engine of the year in the 3.0-3.5 liter class for ten straight years, which is every year it was in production. Mine has 60,000 miles on it, almost all of which was logged on a racetrack, with no issues.
I have tracked my car for many years with no subframe complications, but if you're concerned, there's a reinforment kit you can buy to strengthen the area of doubt.
The M3 does ecceedingly well in corners. It's less of a drag car, 0-60 in 4.6 - but it was engineered to take corners at speed. If you check the 0-60 time of the new BMW V-8 M3, you will note the same 0-60 time as the S54 inline 6 that preceeded it.
I think the M5 is a wee tad on the heavy side for autocross or track use, as is the CTS-V, or the Pontiac.
All of the above aside, I have seen many WRX, and Evos perform well on the track and at autocrosses in the hands of decent drivers. They are lighter than the BMWs. I have a BMW E92 335i mentioned above, and while very capable, it is less of a beast than the M3. Additionally, the 335i needs a bigger oil cooler before track use.
Finding a car is a fun process. Enjoy.
Cheers,
E46M3

 

[The Alchemist]

Another vote for the GTO. If appearance is the only issue, they make plenty of appearance mods that can help dress up the GTO to get it noticed. A nice set of 18-19" wheels, dropped, suspension done, and it's a winner. I know guys think the mustangs have the most aftermarket support, but GM's LS series of motors, and the cars they are in, have a very very strong aftermarket support. I think there are upwards of 4-5 different tuners that you can get alone. The engine's are very mod friendly, and the suspension and drivetrain is easy enough to work on at home.

 

[GreenRodder]

I love my '07 Sublime Daytona Charger, auto-stick and all.

With the MDS I have a lifetime average of about 19 MPG over the 30k miles I have put on it so far.

There is one for sale in Lancaster, OH posted on LXforums.com with less than 5k miles for $24,500.00. I don't know what options is has, but mine listed for $38k with everything but Nav.

You can find all kinds of information there (LXforums) about what people are doing to/with the LX (Magnum, 300, Charger) for racing. The current 1/4 mile record on the board is [email protected] for a SRT8 Magnum supercharged and nitrous.

I think if you're going to go for the charger or challenger then the 6.1 is the way to go. The 5.7 just doesn't have enough guts for my taste low end. I raced a stock 07 5.7L daytona charger vs. a stock 08 Mustang convertible. Both on stock tires both with virtually the same mileage and both with auto trans. The Mustang pulled away by more then 2 car lengths up to 55mph. Only once the cars start really getting to speed does the charger catch up. And I read somewhere that the 2010 GT is faster quarter mile out of the box then the challenger SRT8. I think the challenger is only faster 60-100 then the Mustang. Plus a 2010 GT is within the budget for a brand new car full warrantee and all.

 

[TRC51]

I am going to drive myself nuts on this.... when I shouldn't. Over analysing I think.

I located a low mileage M5 in great condition for around $24K. I thought my search was over. After doing some research, seems the M5 is prone to clutch failures when you slip it under hard acceleration. While normal driving would not be a problem, I would worry about the other events I am planning on using the car for. Cost to replace the clutch might be a tough one to **** up on a regular basis... even though I could probably do it myself.

Sooo... I went back to considering the M3 per E46M3's recommendation. I found a couple I liked and thought I would inquire. After reviewing them further, both mentioned extensive services having already been done, but more needed. One even mentioned both the bearing recall and the subframe replacement (under his cost) being done already, but the car needed the 100K service within 2kmi (so the car basically had 98kmi on it). This made me worry that I might be so lucky to find a car that needed big repairs. The m3 boards recommend having an M3 inspected at a dealer before buying to the tune of about $500 for a simple inspection, up to $1500 for a more detailed one. Tough nut to swallow... especially if they find something that makes me not want to buy the car.

BTW, I went back yet again to look at the GTO. The one in the dealer I mentioned in the previous post. 2006 (400hp), 38kmi, loaded, gray, 6spd, $22K. Fits right in there... and I don't like it. Sorry GTO fans.

Last night I scratched my way through the 03-04 Cobra SVT site recommended ealier. Some nice cars. For some reason I cannot bring myself to buy a previous generation Mustang for more than the cost of a new model (standard GT). They are typically in the $21 - $26K range seem to have mods on every one. I am not afraid of a lightly modified car, but if it's to an extreme, I must just as well go back to the 07 I am considering with 4kmi. If I could sneak into a lightly modified blue, black or orange 03-04 Cobra for $18 - $19K, I think I would buy it.