20x28x9 Modern shed roof adventure build

[thejaq]

I have finally embarked on my garage. I hope to share it here so that others might benefit from my experience (ha!) as much as I have from others, particularly this thread, Garage build - Modern, Shed Roof, Rain Screen Siding, which above all else provided me the impetus to build the garage I want rather than take the easy route with a big box kit. At the very least it will showcase what happens when some guy tries to do way too much new stuff at the same time.

I've got a few goals, 1) Learn how to design/build a garage. 2) Make a "fancy garage" for cheap. A third goal is to document all the specific things that have caused me grief to either reveal my idiocy or give new help.

Why take the easy way when an unnecessarily difficult path is right over there next to that cliff?!

The background: I mainly want a space to work on my 1989 Saab 900 SPG, shop space for all my other ill conceived hobbies (to get them out of the basement), and possibly an occasional place to park. The Saab (Kimber's older sister) needs basic maintenance, has some kind of vacuum leak, coolant leak, turbo may be on last legs, I want to put in various wigets, fix a fairly large dent, a few rust bubbles, and this bizarre failing bondo region in the back. Also contemplating a long term vision of turning her into a 100mi EV. Of course I don't know how to do most of this so, right now I am basically building a Saab graveyard.

So here's what I'm going for modern Dwell kind of thing (precursor to deep energy retrofit on my house) 20' deep by 28' long stretching from about 8' 7" to 10' 1" height. Clerestory from the N and W for day lighting. Roof pointed south-ish for eventual solar. While initially unconditioned I do plan on emphasizing insulation and air-tightness although those plans are currently up in the air due to some issues I have encountered (namely my stupidity).



Some elevations, also my first attempt at a serious Sketchup project and architectural drawings. At least planning review didn't laugh at me. I am going for cheap plexi windows. Mainly to let in diffuse light while partially obscuring the unfinished ceiling. I shamelessly borrowed this from the aforementioned modern Minneapolis build. Its a terrific idea.




The building design and orientation have created some issues. The alley setback forced me to enter the main door on the side. I am limited to 20' deep to leave comfortable vehicle access. It also means the roof bears down on the garage door header, which has lead to considerable consternation on my part (shear walls, strap ties, buckling, etc, and various unsolicited opinions that it will not work) But I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

At this point I have about 40 or 50 hours into it. Learning sketchup, trying to learn the major code/zone issues, checking spans,spacing, schedules, failing to really get a handle on the trim and siding details...

Here is my slate. It's an old photo from 2009. I'm in the alley shooting west. garage will mostly slip into the space outside the fence. Old garage will come down.Its 12 x 20, has 3 layers of shingles which leak, a slab with a 4" wide crack down the center. But it did care for my Saab for a year while I was working abroad so I intend to repurpose some of the plank sheathing for some undefined projects.




I hope to build this thing for $12K. I have an absolute budget of $15K for which compromises will be made to reach. Anything I save I'm putting toward some type of AC on that tiny house in the back. Off to a great start, permit approved, although the $506 fee eats into my budget more than I expected...

 

[Voi]

20' deep by 28' long stretching from about 8' 7" to 10' 1" height.

Subscribed.

So an 18" rise over 20'? That's less than a 1/12 pitch I believe.

You might save some money if you're willing to increase the pitch a bit. Are you limited to that height by local zoning or anything?

 

[thejaq]

I must have imagineered the costs of excavation and slab work at $4500 to $6000, because the bids I got were $7,500 to $12,000 and a warning that they were still months out in schedule. A slab with a course of CMU wasn't exactly what I had in mind for my garage budget.

So I went over to my neighbor (retired from concrete work) to get some feedback on these costs. Instead of feedback he convinced me to do the prep work myself and that he and his sons would get it poured on a Saturday for $1200 + concrete. He said I would figure it out and loaned me his sod cutter.

My plan: Excavate minimally to support a floating slab on a 12" wide by 12" deep footer and a 4.5" slab with remesh on the slab and 2 x 1/2" rebar in the footer and aim for about 2" above grade.

So that got me here:



After which it became clear that grade varied about 4" and in the wrong direction So I started to dig. I dug for about 35 hours over a long weekend and got some friends to help for 26 more hours. I was prepared, but in the end it only cost me a bunch of water, a couple of beers and hotdogs because I think we were all too heat exhausted to drink or eat. At about halfway it looked like this:



The main issue was that the back third had some gravel/top soil mix which was really difficult to break up. But the silver lining is that compacted base will receive the heaviest loading from vehicle traffic.

I was nearly done and it looked like this:



A nice contrast can be seen between my own digging and progress in the background. Their entire playground area was also excavated and regraded and poured concrete. It was a strange mix of feelings while working beside them, something like bad *** idiocy as I toiled away with my shovel.

Of course, I failed my footer inspection. I offset my garage 3' from the alley. While it made sense at the time because the property stakes seemed to be random distances from the alley, it was wrong. Even with my precaution I was about 4" too close to the alley. I needed to offset 2' from a line between the randomly oriented property stakes, or if I want the wall parallel to the alley, at least the minimum of the distance of that line and the alley. Oops

So I had to rip apart the forms. Moving the footer was easy, I now had a 24" wide footer and a 12" gap on the alley. But the forms didn't quite go together the same way. Harder to get level and straight. In retrospect I should have scraped the bad parts and built new ones. This took me a weekend to fix, about 15 hours of work.

At this point I was pretty sick of shovel stuff so I paid a guy from craigslist to haul away the dirt. Aside: wow, you get some really weird responses when you solicit a gig on craigslist. He said he would do it for $100, which seemed like an amazing deal (others wanted $400 to $1200). I half expected to somehow get ripped off, but I understood why when he showed up with a shovel and a pickup. Suffice it to say I ended up paying him $250 for his 20 pickup loads.

I passed inspection on the second try. Now to wait for a crew to assemble on a Saturday and get this thing going!

 

[thejaq]

Subscribed.

So an 18" rise over 20'? That's less than a 1/12 pitch I believe.

You might save some money if you're willing to increase the pitch a bit. Are you limited to that height by local zoning or anything?

Yes. The zoning height restriction is 12' and I have 2x12 16 oc rafters making the span which gives me low slope. I think it is 2' 3" ft rise, I believe the slope is ~1.2. But basically I figured I couldn't get beyond 1.8 without shrinking the short wall below 8', and anything under 3:12 seems to put me in the category of "We hate you and don't like what you are doing" so I just went with it.

 

[Colin Len]

I love the design, can't wait to see how it turns out!

 

[Voi]

Yes. The zoning height restriction is 12' and I have 2x12 16 oc rafters making the span which gives me low slope. I think it is 2' 3" ft rise, I believe the slope is ~1.2.

Okay. Somewhere the numbers aren't adding up for me but I didn't read it real close. Subscribed since I like the design and liked the previous thread you linked to.

I'm finishing up the dry-in phase of a shed roof project (a bunkhouse, not a garage) so I'll really look forward to seeing this come together.

 

[thejaq]

Okay. Somewhere the numbers aren't adding up for me but I didn't read it real close. Subscribed since I like the design and liked the previous thread you linked to.

I'm finishing up the dry-in phase of a shed roof project (a bunkhouse, not a garage) so I'll really look forward to seeing this come together.

I am likely just remembering the wrong numbers somewhere. I'll measure tonight and check my model.

 

[thejaq]

We missed 4 saturdays because getting Gordy's sons together apparently is like herding cats. But managed to pull them together late one Wednesday at 4pm. I was pretty anxious, rain was forecast and it wasn't until about 2pm that the threat passed. Gordie guessed about 11 yards with slack, paid $1630 for 12y 4500psi concrete. We ordered 12 because they waive the delivery charge on a full truck. I was happy to pay for the extra yard because I calculated about 11.5 without slack and I was paranoid about not having enough.

So some trucks showed up and they started



They poured the slab finished the door edge, touched up after I placed the bolts, and then gave it a smooth finish. I had a bolt schedule from my model that I had marked on the molds. I should have gone slower, but they'll work. The long anchor bolts were one of the things I had to special order and they could only be dropped shipped (via Menards). Only available in qty 25 and so I bought 4 locally @ 14", or just a few inches into the slab.

Gordy did convince me of two things about the slab. 1) If I don't disturb the soil I don't need the fill (not sure I buy this) at the very least the porosity of the gravel buys you space against freeze expansion, no? And 2) to use remesh instead of rebar. The guys did a decent job of pulling up the remesh into the wet concrete, but its obvious that the remesh will just undulate near the bottom of the slab up to maybe one half where they pulled. Cutting and bending the rebar for the footer was really easy. In the future I think I would just tie the whole thing with rebar. I'd feel better about that. I decided that I will accept cracks over making relief cuts...

A note on the anchor bolts. I solicited a few opinions, the common thing around here seems to be to tie the CMU blocks to the slab with rebar and core fill and then tie the frame to the core-filled CMU with shorter bolts. My inspector made some suggestion that I tie directly into the slab, which is why I went with the very long bolts. Costs weren't that different so I just took the inspector's advice.

Here's the slab right before the final finish. The mold busted open on the two nearest corners. One of the guys acted quick and used chipped concrete and a pipe to wedge the mold closed. It was super critical the concrete did not flow to meet that apron like thing because I plan to remove it later. It goes down between 12" and 14" and is about 12' long. IT also has giant pieces of aggregate making it pretty much indestructible without power tools. I managed to chip off just enough with a sledge to fit the mold in. My plan was to remove it in the future. I'm no longer sure whether I should do that or if I can get away putting something on top.

There was nothing to hold the mold in place on the other side. I'm pretty sure the molds were flaky from my reassembly. Thankfully the consequences are minor, the hidden back of slab goes from 20' to 20' 1" wide fairly uniformly and I can make up for this on the block layer.



And then they were done by about 6:30 PM. The crew (6) asked $1200 for the pour and I gave them $1500 because apparently I like to give away money. Actually after the delays I was really happy to have it done and within budget. I have to add in what I spent on molds, bolts, reinforcement etc, but slab is about $3130 and with those incidentals I think I am around $3300. Add in the dirt haul guy and I am at $3550. I forgot to ask the driver how much we used, but I am really curious. I wonder if I call the cement co if they keep records about how much they bring back...

It wasn't supposed to rain, but there is some slight patterning from the few big raindrops that must have fallen sometime that night. They told me to have poly ready, just didn't think it was necessary and went to bed too early.

I did screw up the molds in a more serious way. In an attempt to be fancy, I tried to grade the molds to drain the entire slab through the main door. Well I did that... almost. The slab drains toward the main door, but stops short to make a bird bath about 18" to 36" from the opening. Oh well, close enough? On the next rain I'll take a picture of that, so far I have swept away my mistake before anyone sees !

Note: I'm trying to rush through where I am at in the process so that I can get up to date. Slow me down if I am skipping anything important. The Slab was done 8/16. I hope to have the stick frame complete this weekend and be up to date on this thread!

 

[thejaq]

A random musing... since zoning has already come up. This 12' restriction is merciless. There are a few ways around it. 1) Go gable for the different way they measure height, but that is out because I want a shed. (LOL why??) 2) Try and get a variance, which requires an official plan review with costs at least $900 and unsure of success, and 3) build a structure that is "architecturally similar" to the main residence.

Well zoning did tell me if I did a shed roof at 4:12 to match the house that would count, but the problem is that my house is gross old cracked and weathered vinyl. So I would need gross old weathered vinyl on my garage too. No thanks. My plan is to practice on my garage and then later update my house to match the siding on the garage. I even said I would submit an affidavit promising to do this within 3 years! No dice, somewhat worried now they will be out with tape measures busting me if I end up 12' 1".

So this is an instance of the zoning or code doing the exact opposite from what it is suppose to do. It's preventing the construction of nice, updated buildings in a neighborhood that desperately needs it.

So I'm not a great fan of the square windows on the front door, but I settled on them due to the zoning restrictions. With 12' max height and the roof load I don't have room on top of the windows to put in a proper header unless I shrink the window height. I only see this work when there is more height, e.g. this plan. It just looked too weird to me when I tried it here. So I settled on these square windows to fit within the stud spacing. I am still playing with the idea of doing something ala my favorite garage to stretch out the glazing lines horizontally. We'll see. Like him, something tells me I'll have all winter to figure that out

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Looking forward to the result, even with the compromises!

 

[Firebrick43]

Typical concrete guys. Mesh is really useless; unless you put at least some rebar on chairs to hold it up. It is impossible to stand on something and pull it up yet they still try. Also I would have 12" of crushed #8's packed in 3 in lifts. Undisturbed soil in a city is not a reality and it's pretty common for pockets of expansive soil to be at random. But it's done so keep on building.

Did you cover the slab in straw and plastic and keep it soaked for a week?

 

[thejaq]

Did you cover the slab in straw and plastic and keep it soaked for a week?

Er wowzer, no missed that step. I've read about misting for a day or two... [emoji45] from day 2 to day 5 of curing it was wetted from rain frequently enough to prevent me from doing block.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[matt_i]

its too late now but just for future, a rotary laser level, borrow or rented, is a super-useful tool for setting grade/slope/depth. Can also be used during the concrete pour just before screeding to ferret out low spots.

If you have really hard soil, using a rear-tine rototiller like a Troy-Bilt is a good way to controllably chew up the hard stuff into a pile of more easily shoveled fines.

Onto the future, I'd make sure you use a pressure-treated bottom plate on your walls, I'd pay close attention to the "leading edge" of your roof, it will need a good drip edge to keep water going the correct way. Also it will be at the very end, but I'd consider a gutter on the lowest edge to keep water from splashing up onto your siding. I would also consider chipping out the top-sides of your CMU blocks to put a perimeter rebar in the resulting groove before grouting them full, just another way to reinforce that's a little more labor but not much material.

Looking forward to progress, please keep us updated with pictures

 

[Modern Jess]

Is it really the highest peak of the structure that is limited to 12'? I've often seen zoning restrictions that give specific calculations for different types of roofs, but they are usually aiming for an average height of the roof, which would put the 12' mark somewhere less than the actual highest peak.

The 12' line seems awfully low for a full structure + roof.

 

[thejaq]

yes it is quite ridiculous, this is the city's definition of height.

 

[thejaq]

Okay. Somewhere the numbers aren't adding up for me but I didn't read it real close.

Yes the 10' 1" was not including the block layer. inside roof height is 10' 9" so a total rise of about 26" and ~1.4/12 slope.

 

[thejaq]

its too late now but just for future, a rotary laser level, borrow or rented, is a super-useful tool for setting grade/slope/depth. Can also be used during the concrete pour just before screeding to ferret out low spots.

If you have really hard soil, using a rear-tine rototiller like a Troy-Bilt is a good way to controllably chew up the hard stuff into a pile of more easily shoveled fines.

Onto the future, I'd make sure you use a pressure-treated bottom plate on your walls, I'd pay close attention to the "leading edge" of your roof, it will need a good drip edge to keep water going the correct way. Also it will be at the very end, but I'd consider a gutter on the lowest edge to keep water from splashing up onto your siding. I would also consider chipping out the top-sides of your CMU blocks to put a perimeter rebar in the resulting groove before grouting them full, just another way to reinforce that's a little more labor but not much material.

Looking forward to progress, please keep us updated with pictures

Thank you for the tips. I have treated plates, am planning on a gutter (to collect the rain water for gardening and attempt to reduce my stormwater fee). The ship has sailed on the CMU, but I really like that. This garage is just practice round

The leading edge of the roof is my biggest lingering issues. I have been unable to find guidance for that detail. I need to sit down soon and sort that out. I did buy some pieces with the expectation that I got about 50% of it wrong.

 

[JimVonBaden]

This is pretty cool! Thanks for the dialog to go along with the photos!

 

[D45]

Looks like a great project, going to follow this one closely

 

[thejaq]

With the slab done I could take delivery of my big order 2x6, rafters, insulation, garage door, sheathing, treated wood, and tar paper.



I thought it would be more. The delivery company used a semi tractor that was also a forklift, so they couldn't deliver the ~25' long package to the back alley (too tight they say). So they dropped it in the street. Just prior to this I got a warning from the city that the dirt, rocks and "debris" near the alley needed to be cleaned up or else... I figured they wouldn't' be happy about lumber in the street so I moved it to yard. I dragged most of it and got a nice work out on my hamstrings and fingers. Then I tarped the pile and moved the studs in the garage because it started to rain. It took me about 3 hours.



I would have had this large package regardless because of the 22' 2x12 rafters, but the longest lumber was (11) 2x6x24' I order for the top plates. I thought this would make things easy and add rigidity. Possibly that is true but they are also the worst quality lumber and pretty much a clown show to handle alone. Not very heavy but hard to carry something thats bouncing up and down 4 feet on either end.

My rafters aren't that great either, a lot of them are split toward the end, but I plan to cut them for overhang, we'll see. I guess I am used to small projects where I dig through the store to find the good stuff...

So with this load I have materials for reasonably weather proof building with no finish.

The costs are a little bit scrambled, but here here is where I sit. I will be breaking this out in detail in the end. I've already made several unnecessary purchases.


Item $
Permit 506
Foundation 3553
Unfinished Building 4156 + ~$400 in rebates
Running Total 8215

p.s. is there any easy way to make formatted tables ?

 

[captain14]

Where did you get the lumber that was delivered? A quality lumber yard that will stand behinds its product or a big box ( blue, orange or whatever ?)

I would like to follow this build. Really interested in how the roof is built up and what type of roofing materials you go with. My contractor would only put a rolled (?) roofing down on a slight pitched area of the back porch. Shingles would not be acceptable he said and cause leaks.

How much help do you have for the framing?

Good luck and stay dry!

 

[thejaq]

Masonry. I was ready to go. I had the slab but there was intermittent rain for days after that. This was suppose to be easy. I watched the videos. If anyone makes a job looks easy its a mason... Slop. Slop. Lay block. Tap. Tap. Done.

56 blocks. Cut 6. 480lb of grout, 320 lb of core fill.

I'm sorry to say I don't have any pictures here. It took me 15 hours to get this done. It was messy and frustrating. About the only thing I managed to do was get a consistent 8" height and destroy my finger tips.

I mixed 80lb bags with a shovel, I did add more water than suggested to get the consistency (this is always a problem I've had with hand mixing concrete - always seems short on water??). I tried on about the first 10 blocks to do this trowel technique where it just plops on the slab or plops on the CMU edge in the perfect 1" lines. That wasn't working for me at all. And I noticed the mortar was hardening significantly faster than I expected. I figured with only 56 blocks this wasn't the time to try to make progress on my technique. So I basically proceeded to apply the motar in the necessary quantities with my hands as though it were play dough. Then I used a rubber mallet to knock them into place against my masonry line.

This worked, but had the consequence that each block was off by minuscule amounts, <1/16, but each like that randomly, which was jarring to the eye. Straight on average, but each block, if that makes sense.

I'm not sure why it didn't hurt more, but at some point I noticed my gloves were shredded and the four fingers I used were also bleeding and shredded. Great. I still had to finish this last bag. Yeah, sometime during the last 15 bricks my fingers started to hurt a lot, but I wrapped it up anyway. Next time I'll probably avoid smoothing cement with my fingers and cheap gloves. It took days just for the cement to come out!

I've never actually damaged my finger tips in such a way that they were still usable yet all the nerve endings were highly sensitive. This helped me put together a list of things that are not much fun with shredded fingertips filled with cement. 1) hold onto moderately hot pizza 2) set a volleyball, and the most surprising, 3) chop & cook with jalepenos.

In the end it turned out better than it seemed. A lot of the jaggedness went away either by consolidating the motar at the end or hidden by the top plate. The block and joints themselves are pretty ugly up close, but I'll probably be hiding them with something anyway. On my house I have glued XPS panels to the exposed foundation and covered them with this FlexCoat stucco stuff which looks pretty nice and I have left overs.



I only screwed up one anchor bolt placement (it hit a center wall in a block) so I cut off that one and core filled a short one in. A few others don't grab all the threads, but I think they'll be fine. I probably have about 5 or 8 more that are not technically within the middle third of the sill plate, while irritating that I botched such simple placement, I guess it should be fine.

Sillplate work was a relief. Transfered bolt locations. Drilled holes. No binding. My walls are straight and the right length, at least at the bottom!!

 

[Voi]

I would like to follow this build. Really interested in how the roof is built up and what type of roofing materials you go with. My contractor would only put a rolled (?) roofing down on a slight pitched area of the back porch. Shingles would not be acceptable he said and cause leaks.

I'm not the OP and I hope he doesn't mind the thread jack, but my bunkhouse project has a 2:12 pitch and we built the roof with 12" I-joists, OSB sheathing, continuous self-adhesive underlayment and a 24 gauge exposed faster roofing. The roofing is rated down to 1:12 pitch but I was encouraged to not drop below 2:12. It has very deep channels for an exposed fastener material.

I-joists are on 16" centers so the eave overhang on the tall wall could be bumped up to 36". On 24" centers the recommended overhang was 24" or less, IIRC.

With hindsight, I think I should have just built the roof out of SIPs.

 

[Voi]

Yes the 10' 1" was not including the block layer. inside roof height is 10' 9" so a total rise of about 26" and ~1.4/12 slope.

Makes sense now.

I believe you said you're using 2x12 rafters? Are you going to birds-mouth them? Have you calculated how much that will drop the front height? I'm assuming you want to get as close to that 12' height as possible.

 

[thejaq]

So I've never built a wall before. I decided to start with the back wall. 28' long with only one length of stud, the 92 5/8". 24 oc

I picked out some some good ones, marked up the plates. Somewhere around here it occurred to be I wouldn't be able to put this up myself and even lifting a small section over the block and onto the bolt would be tricky. So I decided to throw them up in sections 16' then 12'

This introduced me to one of the mysteries about framing. I have to admit I haven't absorbed all the IRC stuff about framing and nailing, but one thing that bothers me is the ambiguity with respect to when a "professional" is necessary to sign off on something that isn't explicitly called out. I feel like I'm rolling the dice every time I do something different.

Another minor irritation, this is the first time I bought these 92 5/8" studs. I decided to let it go, but these things vary by up to 1/8," what is the point in having this special size if they aren't the same length?!

I'm still trying to figure out the rules of thumb for acceptable tolerances on general construction work. My understanding now is that everyone has to kind of find their own place. I've read through some official standards and surprised to see some pretty large tolerances for plumb, flat, square, etc whereas some big talkers on the net are bragging about what seem like impossibly low tolerance construction.

Anyway, I decided that I'm probably ok with studs varying by <1/8. Probably studs in other dimensions up to 1/2 if I can coax them to <1/4. I have no idea if this is good enough, but it seems practical given the pile of lumber I'm working with. It is surprising me that my cuts & measurements are not the source error in the stick frame. Its the existing lumber or (probably if I knew what I was doing) my inability to make imperfect lumber do what I want... Ok. Its also my toenailing, which is somehow terrible even with this sweet Paslode framing gun I borrowed.


Too much coffee this morning. Here is my back wall. I put it together in about half a day. My wife came home and helped me lift the two sections up on the bolts. It is really unstable so I didn't really try to do anything but hold it up for now.





My wife helped me lift both sections up. the 16' was probably too much for us but we got it done.

 

[thejaq]

Makes sense now.

I believe you said you're using 2x12 rafters? Are you going to birds-mouth them? Have you calculated how much that will drop the front height? I'm assuming you want to get as close to that 12' height as possible.

I have roughed out the birdsmouth (in the model) to 1/2". The building will literally sit at 12' ~1/16" not counting the metal seam. Unfortunately this does not include my 1" insulation. I'm still debating whether I try to do that. My experiences so far on code/zone related stuff 1) The answer becomes no by virtue of asking or 2) They didn't consider that before, but now that I ask, the the answer is no and I will check.

So I wing it and hope that 12' 1" is good enough for my inspector, I don't do it and am probably ok, or I ask my inspector and he then (probably) must technically refuse any variance and will check. Arg

 

[thejaq]

Makes sense now.

Have you calculated how much that will drop the front height?

Thanks for bringing that up.... I didn't consider just increasing the birdsmouth to 1.5", which would drop me enough to put on the insulation. I assumed the 1/2" before would have no structural ramifications, but I should probably check the 1.5" that would take care of my height grief.

One of the other code issues is the roof slope allowable for this non-standing metal seam roof. Another problem I created for myself (by bringing it up). Apparently these consumer (menards pro rib) roofs, while colloquially referred to as standing seam, may not in fact by standing seam, which puts them under the IRC code prohibiting them for <4:12 (maybe <3:12, I forget) without sealing or welding seams

So I was prohibited from using it unless I got manufacturer approval on a sealing method. I talked to a Mfg rep who pointed me to one of the installation guides that prescribed taping the seams with acrylic sealant or butyl tape for slopes less than 1,2,3:12, depending on the length of the panel. So I am taking that as manufacturer approval for slopes less than 4:12 and will show it to the inspector if he asks. Again feels like a **** shoot because it was another Mfg rep who told me about this was not possible. Somewhat frustrating also since I'm pretty sure it would never have come up unless I asked the inspector about it. He is a cool guy and I understand where he's coming from, its basically his job to make the call and he can't willingly make what he sees as an invalid choice.

 

[thejaq]

cool. I'm basically going to birds mouth in the rafter at the top 1.5", it drops the slope a tad but not into new range of problems (I think). I now remember why I skipped this. Like with many things, I find little guidance of what to do at the peak of a shed roof, while equipped to do all the calcs, that is something I hoped to avoid. But it looks like 1.5" cut out of 11.5" beam is fine.

Unnecessary but the modeling gives me confidence it all will fit together right. Here is my rafter.



No notching on the bottom. I bought these silly adjustable pitch rafter connectors $106 for 22 thinking it would be worth it. I can still return them so I'll see how the rafter work goes and make a decision on what to do. (Basically decide if I want the $106 back)

p.s. gosh. I think I made a poor call when choosing photobucket. Can't tell if its the ads or the site but it is a nasty user experience, slow, crashy, garbage ads bypassing adblock... Are they doing this to me to get me to pay? Lol

 

[thejaq]

Ok. New plan. These aren't really windows, but day lighting elements. Instead of squeeze them in between the framing members (which limits them to 2' 10 1/2" wide) I will just put them over the stud pattern. So you will be able to see the studs. I was initially bothered by this, but I think its worth the trade off keeping rectangle windows... Doing something like this also lets me kick the can down the road and deal with the actual glazing dimensions at some other point. Right now I just want to nail down the right stud pattern. thoughts?




Anyway, way to much computer time. I need to go get some work done. Definitely haven't put thought into these details yet.

 

[thejaq]

Where did you get the lumber that was delivered? A quality lumber yard that will stand behinds its product or a big box ( blue, orange or whatever ?)

I would like to follow this build. Really interested in how the roof is built up and what type of roofing materials you go with. My contractor would only put a rolled (?) roofing down on a slight pitched area of the back porch. Shingles would not be acceptable he said and cause leaks.

How much help do you have for the framing?

Good luck and stay dry!

I'll grab some friends when it gets heavy, otherwise my life is always up to the challenge. Lumber is menards, I haven't pressed them on the quality, nor am I very confident on acceptable quality.

As for the roof, I cobbled together a plan so I could make the roof order, but I expect it to change, particularly the peak detail. We'll see! Only thing that I'm probably stuck with is the length of metal roof panel.

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[73fxe]

You are going to add a double plate to the wall, right?

 

[Voi]

Only thing that I'm probably stuck with is the length of metal roof panel.

The length doesn't need to be perfect to like the 1/2" or anything. You'll have a top can profile that will wrap up over the top of your roof panel and onto the fascia above your tall wall.

Then you'll have some room to overhang the panels over the lower drip-edge profile and into your gutter.

Between these two things the panel length doesn't need to be perfect.

I'll see if I can find line drawings of the profiles I used so it's easier to visualize.

 

[Voi]

Unfortunately this does not include my 1" insulation.

Do you mean 1" insulation above your roof sheathing? Is that enough to even be effective in your climate?

 

[thejaq]

The length doesn't need to be perfect to like the 1/2" or anything. You'll have a top can profile that will wrap up over the top of your roof panel and onto the fascia above your tall wall.

Then you'll have some room to overhang the panels over the lower drip-edge profile and into your gutter.

Between these two things the panel length doesn't need to be perfect.

I'll see if I can find line drawings of the profiles I used so it's easier to visualize.

That would be super helpful thanks.

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[Firebrick43]

Wow, 506 dollars for a permit. And crazy restrictions to boot. Boy I am thankful to live in the country. Adding on 1400 foot house 2800 if you count the basement, and a 28 x 30 garage and the permit cost 330. While I am not into the whole modern styling I do have to admit I looks much better than the small vinyl sided sheds of your neighbors.

 

[thejaq]

Do you mean 1" insulation above your roof sheathing? Is that enough to even be effective in your climate?

I will fill the rafter cavities with something cheaper. The external foam is mainly to try to create a air tight envelope. I admit probably not worth it on the garage, but I thought I would get in the practice. In a few years I will be trying to retrofit a 6 in foam jacket on my house.

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[Voi]

That would be super helpful thanks.

Tried to upload a picture with no luck so I went to Google and found something sort of close.

I have a trim piece like this that will go over the roof panels and wrap over the front fascia. The roof panels go underneath the part with the 4-1/2" pointer and the vertical metal then wraps over the front fascia board.

Between than and the slight overhang over the rear drip edge the length doesn't need to be dead perfect. At least that's what I was told.

[EDIT] And the company I used did bend the profile for my roof pitch. If I had decided to angle back my rafter tails I bit they would have bent it to match that.

 

[Voi]

I will fill the rafter cavities with something cheaper. The external foam is mainly to try to create a air tight envelope. I admit probably not worth it on the garage, but I thought I would get in the practice. In a few years I will be trying to retrofit a 6 in foam jacket on my house.

The problem with this might be the ratio to the inch of foam to whatever else you use to fill the cavities. Too much of the cheap stuff (fiberglass, cellulose, or whatever) and not enough of the rigid foam and your sheathing won't be warm enough to prevent condensation and subsequent freezing on the underside of your roof sheathing.

Now since this is a garage that will be primarily an unconditioned space and won't have the same appliances (and therefore moisture) as a house has you might very well be okay. Still, I'd read these two articles if you haven't already.

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...mbining-exterior-rigid-foam-fluffy-insulation

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...lating-minimum-thickness-rigid-foam-sheathing

If they don't get into some details dealing with this with un-ventilated roofs post back and I'll see if I can find something else. Like maybe this one:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/how-build-insulated-cathedral-ceiling

 

[Orionrising]

that is a fairly long joist span for a very flat roof in a snowy climate.

What is the designed snow load?
and what is the lumber grade on the 2x12s?

 

[thejaq]

that is a fairly long joist span for a very flat roof in a snowy climate.

What is the designed snow load?
and what is the lumber grade on the 2x12s?

It is about as long as allowed. Ground snow load is 50 psf, I calced 39 for this roof. It is 35 for 4:12 or greater. I spec #1 or better, but thank you for the reminder, I havent checked those boards.

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