Has anyone actually seen a counterfeit tool?

[Blacknwhitepit]

I know some people are concerned about Country of origin, and there have been claims posted on this site about people afraid to buy on ebay because they feel a tool may be counterfeit (not counting Made in China/Taiwain Craftsman that they sell to Canadians)

Does anyone truly have a counterfeit tool, because I have never seen one....

-BWP

 

[fordbroncodave]

i have a screw driver that is a craftsman with a bunch of X's over the craftsman logo. the X's are definitely stamped over the craftsman name and you can see that but it looks too good to be done by hand

 

[bchee]

This is something I've wondered about too. Haven't seen any personally, but I don't know if I would be able to tell the difference.

 

[wreckercologist]

I'm unsure. Without checking the metalurgy, who knows?

I bought a set of Snap-on GOEX wrenches that are the ugliest, most poorly finished Snap-on wrenches I've ever seen. The have the parting lines still on them from when they were forged as well as a very rough pebble finish. That said, the logo's and part numbers are very crisp, straight, and uniform. They sound like a Snap-on when you drop them on concrete. They are probably genuine, but like I said....who knows?

I do question where so many T72's, F80's, and S80 ratchets come from in pristine, unused condition.

I suspect there will never be a clear answer to your question.

 

[Paladin]

I don't know about "counterfeit", but I once sold a Vlchek wrench on E-Bay and had several folks ask if it was a reproduction. It was a 3/8-7/16 open-end wrench that was for a 60's Corvette tool kit. Apparently repro wrenches had been made for the Corvette crowd. Mine was genuine and I made $40 some bucks off of the wrench. I think I paid .25 cents for it at a pawn shop...

 

[volvo420coupe]

I have a serious suspicion about the "harley davidson screwdriver sets" and "new holland wrench sets" on ebay both claiming to be "made by snap on"

My brother bought one of the screwdriver sets, they are very good quality, but not snap on.

 

[daveblank]

They sound like a Snap-on when you drop them on concrete.

What sound does a Snap On make that is different?

Years ago, when Mac came out with the pinless wobble impact sockets, I came across some at the Canton Flea Market. My distributor didn't even have them yet. The stamping was "mAc". I picked up a new 19mm for $5. I knew it was fake. The next week I gave it to my distributor so that he could show his superiors. He gave me my $5 & about a month later a Mac rep came in with him & gave me a new one & said thanks.

 

[volvo420coupe]

What sound does a Snap On make that is different?

Snap on sounds like "$clang$", and regular wrenches sound like "clang".

Its totally different.

 

[rcm296]

It has never happened to me in tools, that I know of, but happened to me off ebay for a golf club(driver), brought it to my club builder, to change shafts in it, said"Rob, why you putting a $300 shaft into a $5 club..."... I was wtf!!! then I was , then .

So I am sure there is some out there , as there is counterfeits in every other item market

 

[FLACOMAN]

Transistors and capacitors are also very susceptible to counterfeiting

 

[Crashman]

I have a Snap On T72 that I bought on ebay that I am pretty sure is a fake. The S-O logo is embossed much deeper on one side that the other, and the date stamp doesn't match anything I have seen. It works fine but I haven't really pushed it hard. It was in perfect condition though with no scratches!

 

[HandyManny]

I doubt you'll see it in tools. Why would you. Most people regard tools as tools. It's more beneficial to for crooks to counterfiet stuff like fine Swiss watches, or high end and high priced tag fashion stuff. That's what you see most. With the exception of a few members here I think most people still think of tools as a utilitarian impliment that gets used for a purpose. Even most tool snobs who actually use their tools on the job realise this. I mean com'on guys were not talking Gucci shoes here or Rolex watches.

 

[toymn6366]

back in the 70s my dad use to buy Old Timer knifes when they where still made in the usa,they called them 2nds if something was wrong with them ,they chunnked them in a wood box after hitting them with a grinder to knock the name of so he bought them buy the pound. when we got them he had 2 old guys that would go through them and pick out ones that they could finsh, then he sent those to wholesale auctions and most ended up at flea markets. they wheren't counterfiet you just couldn' call them old timers i have seen craftsman tools done the same way before.

 

[benjamming]

I doubt you'll see it in tools. Why would you. Most people regard tools as tools. It's more beneficial to for crooks to counterfiet stuff like fine Swiss watches, or high end and high priced tag fashion stuff. That's what you see most. With the exception of a few members here I think most people still think of tools as a utilitarian impliment that gets used for a purpose. Even most tool snobs who actually use their tools on the job realise this. I mean com'on guys were not talking Gucci shoes here or Rolex watches.

They copy & steal everything. I mean how many millions of DVDs have been illegaly copied & sold? There is a lot more profit to be made in counterfeit market.

 

[Tool Pants]

This must be a fake. Sears would not try to sell a Craftsman tool made in Japan. Right....

 

[The Muffin Man]

This must be a fake. Sears would not try to sell a Craftsman tool made in Japan. Right....

Its not a fake. I have a "BF Japan" Craftsman vise and needle nose pliers.

Searching "BF Japan" should yield more information.

 

[fordbroncodave]

I have a serious suspicion about the "harley davidson screwdriver sets" and "new holland wrench sets" on ebay both claiming to be "made by snap on"

My brother bought one of the screwdriver sets, they are very good quality, but not snap on.

i saw a new holland toolbox that looked identical to my blue point toolbox at a local machinery dealer. i looked everywhere and there was no snap on stamped anywhere. not even on the drawer slides. good price though

 

[HandyManny]

This must be a fake. Sears would not try to sell a Craftsman tool made in Japan. Right....

They are genuine. Sears had a lot of Craftsman tools being made in Japan for a while there in the early 1980's. My father-in-law has quite a few of them. Besides I don't thinkthe Japanese have ever been the big counterfieters. Most Japanese made stuff has always been much like the old fashioned American made stuff - pretty good quality.

 

[Tool Pants]

Just a joke. I have other BF Japan stuff. My father gave me a Sears BF adjustable around 1969, so it goes back further.

But I think these Protos might be fakes....

 

[Monte]

seen yes, at the flea market . These "Makita" drivers...

I once spoke with a Knipex dude about fakes and he told me that they found forging dies for Knipex and also VBW pliers at the german - czech republic border.

Heres a patent infringement of the Cobra pliers from Taiwan click (scroll down)

You also could buy a container from this supplier and stamp the tools with "Grip-On" click

Wire stripper fakes which looks like the "Jokari" one this time from China... click

The Knipex guys wondered if this company has the same photographer , the crimping pliers look like Knipex, the sell them under the "MKnipex" name...... click ...name and design infringement...

Another Knipex fake: click

This company already was sued by Wiha but they still offer the "Proturn" handle screwdrivers.... again from China..: click

I thought this pipe wrench is patented by Egamaster click ?? Here`s the taiwanese version: click

This manufacturer of electric tools produces a nice selection of copycat Bosch, Makita and Hitachi tools... http://www.hongyupt.com/

Looks like Bosch but its "Hongyu" brand................

This one from Bosch is made in switzerland.....
It looks like they also stole the photo....

 

[billymade]

I think what we may be tapping into sometimes, is the "Gray Market"; tools that are made for contracts through Snapon's Industrial Special Products Division, many times there are probably over stocks of these tools and they end up in the used tool market place. They will custom make anything you ask them to! If you look on ebay; there are some "warehouse" sellers who have pallets of boxes of "snap-on" tools in large quantities. There was also some guy on ebay who had "Snap-on" wrenches but they were just marked with numbers or other identifying info but not the logo. I'm assuming these were made under a specific contract and did not have the lifetime warranty; thus, the omission of the Snap-on logo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_market

http://www.snaponspecialproducts.com/

 

[Tool Pants]

At my local flea market it is called Newkita.

 

[jpilgrim]

i have a screw driver that is a craftsman with a bunch of X's over the craftsman logo. the X's are definitely stamped over the craftsman name and you can see that but it looks too good to be done by hand

It might be CMan refurbished. I have a CMan 3/8 pear head ratchet on which the part number 43795 (I think) had been professionally struck out before my dad bought it as refurbished at Sears in the late 70s / early 80s.

 

[back2class]

My local junk shop used to sell Mac wood replacement handles for hammers. They were genuine Mac wood handles but I wonder how many found their way onto random hammerheads and sold on ebay.

But I think the idea of counterfit mechanics tools is pretty silly but you never know.

 

[HandyManny]

Keep in mind the whole rebranding thing. A few high-end tool makers also produce their own tool for other companies under that company's name.

Recall reading about how Wright priduced tools for Mongamery Wards store brand at one time.

Bosch, Detla, and others also produce tools for other brands.

 

[wreckercologist]

What sound does a Snap On make that is different?

Snap on sounds like "$clang$", and regular wrenches sound like "clang".

Its totally different.

You guys oughta be on Comedy Central!

Call me crazy, but I can here a difference. I'm not just talking about Snappy. Any quality wrench will have a clear, bell tone IMO. I guess I'm crazy. So what.

That said, it does seem to be a helluva lot of trouble to counterfeit tools. The rewards(money) don't really see to be high enough. Like HandyManny said, wouldn't it be easier to make watches or purses?

 

[greenreese]

You guys oughta be on Comedy Central!

Call me crazy, but I can here a difference. I'm not just talking about Snappy. Any quality wrench will have a clear, bell tone IMO. I guess I'm crazy. So what.

I could swear that when I snap a snap on socket onto a snap on extension the sound of the two hitting each other is different, than when I do it with a similar craftsman. Not when they pop together, but when the ends tap each other. Maybe it is because the craftsman socket is more concave on the end or something, but I think it does sound different. That said I have like 200 craftsman sockets and only a couple snap on.

 

[rsanter]

I think its possable, but I have never seen it to my knowledge.
we have all seen copy tools that are very close to the real quality tools, the company making them could stamp them with the SO name and part number but it seems like the shape and finish would be off just enough that I would think the ********* SO guys would be able to spot them in the crowd

I think its interesting that the Cman pro wrenches are so close in shape to the SO wrenches that they will fit in the same cutout in foam

bob

 

[Jbullfrog]

I have a serious suspicion about the "harley davidson screwdriver sets" and "new holland wrench sets" on ebay both claiming to be "made by snap on"

My brother bought one of the screwdriver sets, they are very good quality, but not snap on.

They are produced by Williams which is a an entity of Snap-ON.

 

[HandyManny]

I could swear that when I snap a snap on socket onto a snap on extension the sound of the two hitting each other is different, than when I do it with a similar craftsman. Not when they pop together, but when the ends tap each other. Maybe it is because the craftsman socket is more concave on the end or something, but I think it does sound different. That said I have like 200 craftsman sockets and only a couple snap on.

That sound or tone has a lot to do with the type of steel and how it is heat treated and tempered. Many brands heat treat and temper their steel differently to various degrees of hardness and tinsle strength. That all affects how the steel vibrates when it hits the ground.

 

[slacktide]

I doubt you'll see it in tools. Why would you. Most people regard tools as tools. It's more beneficial to for crooks to counterfiet stuff like fine Swiss watches, or high end and high priced tag fashion stuff. That's what you see most. With the exception of a few members here I think most people still think of tools as a utilitarian impliment that gets used for a purpose. Even most tool snobs who actually use their tools on the job realise this. I mean com'on guys were not talking Gucci shoes here or Rolex watches.

They'll fake ANYTHING... I've been fooled on Ebay twice. Once bought a 96-pack of Gillette Mach 3 razor blades for about half what they cost in the store... fake. Nearly tore my face off first time I used them... When you compared the blades and packaging next to an authentic one, you could barely spot the visual differences, but they were there.

Bought two Apple USB wall chargers, represented as "Genuine Apple". Fake... the real Apple chargers support a high-current charging mode for the phone, these would only charge at the slower rate. You had to look really close to tell the difference, but you could see it when comparing the shape of the contacts in the USB port and the finish on the wall plug prongs.

 

[HandyManny]

They'll fake ANYTHING... I've been fooled on Ebay twice. Once bought a 96-pack of Gillette Mach 3 razor blades for about half what they cost in the store... fake. Nearly tore my face off first time I used them... When you compared the blades and packaging next to an authentic one, you could barely spot the visual differences, but they were there.

Bought two Apple USB wall chargers, represented as "Genuine Apple". Fake... the real Apple chargers support a high-current charging mode for the phone, these would only charge at the slower rate. You had to look really close to tell the difference, but you could see it when comparing the shape of the contacts in the USB port and the finish on the wall plug prongs.

We're not talking razor blades or USB chargers here.

I keep hearing how "they" (who ever they are) will fake anything. Maybe true, but no one here has posted anything credible regarding tools Lets see some counterfit tools!!!

 

[volvo420coupe]

The only way to spot a counterfeit tool is to see a difference, with a lot of tools it would be easy for a Chinese company to make several types of tools that could fool us for years.

There may be a lot more out there than any of us realize, and we might never be the wiser.

 

[HandyManny]

The only way to spot a counterfeit tool is to see a difference, with a lot of tools it would be easy for a Chinese company to make several types of tools that could fool us for years.

There may be a lot more out there than any of us realize, and we might never be the wiser.

I doubt the counterfit tool would hold up nearly as well even for occasional use. If that fake tool performs just as good for years without us ever being the wise then I really begin to question who is really ripping off whom??

Funny thing about fakes. I once had a causual friend buy a cheap fake Rolex off a street vendor in Manhattan. He knew it was fake, but thought it would be something funny to wear on occasion. It was no way as durable, shock resistant, or waterproof as the genuine article. But, it's quarts movement kept better time than any mechanical "certified chronometer" will these days.

 

[Monte]

I have one, a time measuring tool

a Rolex for only 20 bucks

the "gold plating" already fades off...

 

[benjamming]

Handy,

The point is that if they will fake razor blades & DVDs, they (Chinese, etc.) will fake anything. But yes, it would be good to see fake tools so we can help spot the differences in the future.

 

[T56 Impala]

I have seen some questionable Craftsman stuff. I wish I had an example but I don't.

Years ago, My FIL's brother owned an old time hardware store. He, at times, had questionable ethics. The had several sets of Craftsman wrenches that he said were from Japan. The roll they were in said Japan. The wrenches were not raised panel but actually looked like Post war Proto's. They were stamped "Craftsman" in block letters and "Made in US" on the back. Not USA, but US.

I'm sure there are some out there, I doubt many would be seen on this site though.

 

[charle10]

I picked up a bit driver today (used from a junk shop) I swear it is a Snap-on black hard handle, It has the same warning as a snap-on on one side, but no name or tool # pressed on the other side of the handle. Anyone ever seen an actual Snap-on hard handle, without the handle saying Snap-on?

 

[T56 Impala]

Just a joke. I have other BF Japan stuff. My father gave me a Sears BF adjustable around 1969, so it goes back further.

But I think these Protos might be fakes....

Top one is an unfinished blank. For whatever reason it was removed from the production line.

Second one.... ??????

Third one is likely either a prototype or one that was modified, before finishing, for in house use.

 

[HandyManny]

I have seen some questionable Craftsman stuff. I wish I had an example but I don't.

Years ago, My FIL's brother owned an old time hardware store. He, at times, had questionable ethics. The had several sets of Craftsman wrenches that he said were from Japan. The roll they were in said Japan. The wrenches were not raised panel but actually looked like Post war Proto's. They were stamped "Craftsman" in block letters and "Made in US" on the back. Not USA, but US.

I'm sure there are some out there, I doubt many would be seen on this site though.

I've seen Craftsman tools on the shelf at Sears recently that made me wonder if they were genuine Craftsman. Turns out they just stepped down on the quality