Advice on Whitworth (British Standard) Tools

[texag09]

Alright, I am about to start the tear-down process on my 1972 Triumph T120R and was looking for some advice on purchasing tools for the job. I have a fairly stocked garage of vintage/new USA only SAE tools but do not own a single British Standare (Whitworth) tool. I will be needing a few sockets to make sure I torque to spec the parts and I would assume some DOE and/or Combination Wrench for the hard to reach things. What brands or source would anyone recommend to make sure I purchase affordable yet quality tools for the job?

It appears there is nothing cheap (price wise) I have found in the selection, I would at least like quality especially if I have to throw out some big money for them.

Thanks in advance.

Here are the pictures as it sits now.

 

[BK13]

I know KoKen makes a pretty fair selection of sockets... The one that suprised me was the BSW swivel sockets...

I think Levelchrome is relatively close to you. They import KoKen tools...

 

[1foxracing]

British Fasteners carries King ****, made in England and the coolest tool name around.
http://britishfasteners.com/index.php/tools/abingdon-king-****-tools.html

 

[Ditchdigger]

I am about to buy the Rolson set of combinations from british fasteners

http://britishfasteners.com/index.php/tools.html/

They have to be better quality than the no name indian made set from the 70's I am using now. I service a fair bit of pre-war British cars and use them 5 or 6 times a year

 

[ttpete]

A 1972 Triumph oil-in-frame bike will have standard Unified fasteners. You won't need Whitworth wrenches. Use your American wrenches.

 

[scissorman]

Snap-on makes and sells Whitworth. Do an e-bay search to buy much cheaper than direct off the truck or their website. I just typed in Whitworth tools in an internet search and Amazon has a bunch and cheap. https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&k...qmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_6l2o35mhry_e

 

[milkovich]

+1 I didn't think a 72 triumph had any or many WW fasteners.

Still... FWIW I have a set of KoKen sockets and King **** wrenches. The sockets are really nice (I wouldn't hesitate to buy koken tools in other sizes). The wrenches I have don't look like the current polished versions (more like a toptul satin finish) but I don't have any complaints. My old Norton breaks down and leaks so much, I've never run into a stuck fastener.

 

[Rock knocker]

Please educate me here. Are Whitworth sockets fundamentally different across the flats, or are they just labeled differntently than SAE sockets?

 

[ttpete]

+1 I didn't think a 72 triumph had any or many WW fasteners.

Still... FWIW I have a set of KoKen sockets and King **** wrenches. The sockets are really nice (I wouldn't hesitate to buy koken tools in other sizes). The wrenches I have don't look like the current polished versions (more like a toptul satin finish) but I don't have any complaints. My old Norton breaks down and leaks so much, I've never run into a stuck fastener.

I also have KoKen sockets. Good stuff.

Do you belong to the INOA (International Norton Owners Association)?

They have several chapters in Ohio, and are a great club. I belong to the MI chapter.

http://www.inoanorton.com/Chapters/

 

[dutchgray]

Please educate me here. Are Whitworth sockets fundamentally different across the flats, or are they just labeled differntently than SAE sockets?

Yes they are different sizes, some internet searching will find you a chart with the sizes in thousandths and mm.

 

[Rock knocker]

Yes they are different sizes, some internet searching will find you a chart with the sizes in thousandths and mm.

Did and done. Thanks!

 

[Ditchdigger]

A 5/16" Whitworth bolt will have a head Diameter of 0.600" which is too big for a 15mm wrench to fit on and too small to work with a 5/8" wrench. A 3/8" Whitworth is 0.700" at the head which is well under 3/4 and an 18mm might work if it isn't over torqued.


It is all like that.

 

[dutchgray]

I am about to buy the Rolson set of combinations from british fasteners

http://britishfasteners.com/index.php/tools.html/

They have to be better quality than the no name indian made set from the 70's I am using now. I service a fair bit of pre-war British cars and use them 5 or 6 times a year

I wouldn't count on it, Rolson is one of those tool makes which is just junk.
They are also charging over double what the eBay price is here.

 

[jakemac]

For as little as they'd get used, a used set of 1960's Whitworth sockets and wrenches by Craftsman off eBay should get the job done.

 

[straightcut]

For as little as they'd get used, a used set of 1960's Whitworth sockets and wrenches by Craftsman off eBay should get the job done.

eBay prices for Craftsman Whitworth tools appeared to have a collector component to the prices I saw.

I've got some old Land Rover Series trucks, so purchased an 8 piece set of Koken 3/8" drive, six point sockets. I have no name (recent production) and Britool combination wrenches. The no name wrenches seem to be of decent quality, though time will tell. The best price I found were all from vendors on eBay.

Initially, I thought with six and 12 point metric and SAE tools, I would be able to find something that fit close enough. I was wrong. Besides being a major pain constantly trying to find the best fit for each fastener, because the fit was never perfect, I don't like the idea of damaging 50 year old fasteners.

 

[Dave455]

O.K. Sounds like you are looking for good usable tools, same as most folk!

There's a good selection out there, but if you're used to buying from U.S. manufacturers you may struggle a little!

My advice, firstly, a good set of combination wrenches! I advise King **** too! They're well priced but decently made and nicely finished! A set of box end wrenches (ring spanners in British terminology)is nice too. An alternative choice would be one of the German makers. Gedore make a good selection, but I find the Elora to be much better finished.

For socket wrenches you could go down the King **** route too, especially if you only want the sockets, as some of their ratchets are a bit industrial!

Others here have advised KoKen, and I can only endorse this. They make a huge range, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 drive, 6 or 12 point, even deep and swivel! Quality is so good and the price so reasonable you may wonder why you've ever bought anything else! For bike work I'd get 1/4 drive sockets in at least the even BA sizes and a set of 3/8 drive sockets in the Whit sizes. You'll probably only use about 4 though!

If you come into money, consider a set of Snap On BS wrenches - nice but costly! Again, you'll only need about 4, which keeps the cost down!

Have you actually checked what's on the bike? If memory serves, the earlier Triumphs used cycle threads (Whit head sizes but constant pitch threads) and the later ones Unified! Can't recall when they switched, but if the vague recollection of '69 is correct, you already have all you need! Don't be surprised if it's a bit 'mix'n'match' though!!

Come back to me if you have queries!

For Whitworth virgins, the Hex size is simply twice the bolt size, but measured across the points! BSF threads use one hex size smaller, and since the war, so do the BSW. BA is the British equivalent of the US numbered series threads. It's much more common then Whitworth as the U.K. adopted Unified threads to replace BSW/BSF in the late 50's, but kept BA!

 

[Tim37]

I would have to go with King **** just because of the name

 

[Jim C.]

For as little as they'd get used, a used set of 1960's Whitworth sockets and wrenches by Craftsman off eBay should get the job done.

Hey Jake,

Good luck finding Cman Whitworth tools on eBay, and when you do, they're not cheap. I've been ACTIVELY on the hunt for Cman Whitworth tools for about a year now. I search eBay on a daily basis. Cman wrenches and sockets rarely show up. So far I managed to track down a complete set of four DOE wrenches and three out of a set of ten sockets. A few weeks ago I bid on two well used DBE wrenches and dropped out when the bid went past $50. I think the Cman Whitworth stuff is hard to find. That's been my experience so far.

Jim C.

 

[Jim C.]

eBay prices for Craftsman Whitworth tools appeared to have a collector component to the prices I saw......

Absolutely 100% true..... All those old Cman Whitworth tools are =V= era. Collectors are definitely influencing the prices.

Jim C.

 

[jakemac]

I haven't checked the prices lately. I got my wrenches a few years ago at reasonable prices off eBay. Either it was during a lull, or before the prices jumped up. I got lucky on the sockets. Found a full set of 1/2dr at the flea market and talked the seller down to $20 w/ the toolbox.

 

[Jim C.]

I haven't checked the prices lately. I got my wrenches a few years ago at reasonable prices off eBay. Either it was during a lull, or before the prices jumped up. I got lucky on the sockets. Found a full set of 1/2dr at the flea market and talked the seller down to $20 w/ the toolbox.

You lucked out Jake. Cman Whitworth is tough to find these days. Couple questions....Did you get the green plastic pouches with the wrenches? Also, you mentioned getting the tool box with the sockets. Did the box have the red molded insert? If you have the plastic pouches and the metal socket box and molded insert, can you post a few pictures? Thanks.

Jim C.

 

[jakemac]

No pouches for the wrenches.
The toolbox was the standard 1960's short hip box. The seller was having trouble selling it because noone knew what the heck those odd sized sockets with the W were.

 

[Gmonkee]

I pick up stray Whitworth when possible and frankly its useless to me.

Maybe a dozen wrenches of different styles so far, but if the need ever arises it here waiting.