How do you like your Kwik Way? You see these and FMC pretty reasonable but Ammco bring a premium.
Opinion opn Brake lathe
- Thread starter john11139
- Start date
How do you like your Kwik Way? You see these and FMC pretty reasonable but Ammco bring a premium.
Al Bundy
Well-known member
Since my hobby is classic cars it makes it easy to love. It didn't have a whole lot of use when I got it. Makes easy work of turning drums. I even turned the rotors on my buddys Silverado and saved him some money. If you're thinking about one I highly recommend it.
I am a old timer and look at things different than the new generation and the way of doing things have changed. When I went into business for myself a few words of wisdom came back to me from a old fellow (who had hemorrhoids older than I was) gave me my first job in a garage. Never buy groceries, coal or fire wood on credit. That's the way I run my business. If I couldn't pay for it, I didn't get it. I have seen so many people go into business over the years and buy all kinds of equipt. and at the month they have to pay for it and work for nothing. Back when I started my own business, the didn't have the Auto Zone, Advance auto and others. If you needed a brake drum turned, you took it to a little hole in the wall place and had it done. If you need a valve job, you sent the heads to a place that did that. Back then auto parts store didn't have life time gurantee. Many of the alternators, generators (whats that) starters being sold were junk. I got into rebuilding them myself when practical. Got a generator and test bench made by United motors in 1915. South bend lathe and a few other items. I didn't get into the rewinding of the armatures and field coils. I rebuilt thousands of generators and starters. Farmers tractor and oil field. You just didn't run down to Wal Mart and get one then. Even some of the parts houses couldn't get one. I even got a brake lathe to save a buck and time. I know it has changed now and my son and I argue about it every day) Now we live in a throw away age and you can get a rotor from China for $20 when years ago a drum would have cost 4 times that amount. Bought a tubing bender, took a $4 stick of tubing and made a $20 tail pipe. Even had a machine that would even dome 4" pipe and make my own glass packs. Best money maker I ever had was the pipe bender. After working in the auto repair for 45 years and owning my own building and business for 25. I had to semi retire due to health reasons and I could see the writing on the wall as newer cars came out, the jack of all trades and master of none was over. I had a good income from business and could not find any one who wanted to work as hard as I did to take it over, or buy it out right. (at that time my son was only 18 and like most boys was more interested in girls) Now he sees about what he could have had. (more later if this post keeps going on) Nice reading every ones thought.
sberry
Banned
This was my point, don't get him something he doesn't want or need.
Dennis Leigh Henry
Well-known member
Last time I actually turned a rotor or a drum myself was in high school auto shop class... ahem..... way back when Jimmy Peanuts Carter was in the White House... I've worked at a manufacturer of HD drums and rotors, and they had a drum lathe in our assembly dept. It was a joke. We could disassemble the drum / wheel, drum / hub, rotor / wheel, rotor / hub, take the offending component back to the machining salvage department, where they would true it up in a snap on an old fashioned, Bullard 24" VTL.....
Now, back to the ahem.... time in school.... Since I was taking vocational machine trades most of my time there, I became a snap user of the Ammco brake lathe... even the shop teacher would save up work and / or track me down to turn them when he wanted it done right.. I got pretty good at picking out the proper mandrel / cone combination, keeping the tool sharp, etc. So, with a bit of tenacity and patience, these lathes can earn their keep in just about any situation..
Also... ahem... back then.. I learned to grind valves, knurl valve stems, and similar auto shop cross over to machine trades shop.... learning in the 'dusty arts.....
Now, back to the ahem.... time in school.... Since I was taking vocational machine trades most of my time there, I became a snap user of the Ammco brake lathe... even the shop teacher would save up work and / or track me down to turn them when he wanted it done right.. I got pretty good at picking out the proper mandrel / cone combination, keeping the tool sharp, etc. So, with a bit of tenacity and patience, these lathes can earn their keep in just about any situation..
Also... ahem... back then.. I learned to grind valves, knurl valve stems, and similar auto shop cross over to machine trades shop.... learning in the 'dusty arts.....
Darkbreeze
Well-known member
Old thread, I know, sorry for that, but came across it and had to add some input to this conversation since clearly it's something that still finds it's way onto people's browsers from time to time.
Plus, I completely disagree with much of what has been said in this thread.
I've attended and worked at, three separate automotive repair technology schools. One was a top gun type fast track academy, another was a "long path" college and the other was a community college. All of them, ALL, every instructor, and this goes from the early 90's through the mid 2000's, HIGHLY recommended putting at least one light pass on ANY rotor or drum you purchase from a part store these days.
Yes, many people recommend not doing this, because they haven't had major issues, but 90% of "out of the box" rotors and drums I've put on a lathe over the last twenty five years has had at least some amount of warp or out of round. Maybe not enough to be a BIG deal, but enough to be A deal. And any amount of warp or out of round will cause premature pad or shoe wear.
Also, I have yet to find a single instructor or master certified technician that didn't agree that turning, and non-directional finishing, should be compulsory.
Plus, I completely disagree with much of what has been said in this thread.
I've attended and worked at, three separate automotive repair technology schools. One was a top gun type fast track academy, another was a "long path" college and the other was a community college. All of them, ALL, every instructor, and this goes from the early 90's through the mid 2000's, HIGHLY recommended putting at least one light pass on ANY rotor or drum you purchase from a part store these days.
Yes, many people recommend not doing this, because they haven't had major issues, but 90% of "out of the box" rotors and drums I've put on a lathe over the last twenty five years has had at least some amount of warp or out of round. Maybe not enough to be a BIG deal, but enough to be A deal. And any amount of warp or out of round will cause premature pad or shoe wear.
Also, I have yet to find a single instructor or master certified technician that didn't agree that turning, and non-directional finishing, should be compulsory.
Schurkey
Well-known member
I got that attitude from my boss, thirty years ago. We had to "refinish" all the new rotors 'cause the boss said so. I thought it was a total waste of time and metal.
It also depends on the brake lathe you have access to. Takes a wonderful machine to match the "factory" finish; and my old machine leaves the rotors looking like a vinyl LP. I think it's easy to make the rotors WORSE after "refinishing" than they were before, and not just with an antique lathe like mine.
I know of no-one who cuts rotors, that sets a dial indicator on the mandrel to see what it's runout is.
Non-directional finish--YES, absolutely, IF (big IF) you need to cut the rotor.
I pull them out of the box, clean the anti-rust coating off them, and put them on the vehicle. If there would be a problem, the vendor can warranty the rotor. Since I've never had a problem, the vendor has never had to honor the warranty, and I don't waste a bunch of time "fixing" what provably isn't broken/warped, AND I don't waste metal leading to "thin" rotors later on.
If the rotors you buy aren't straight and true, YOU NEED A DIFFERENT VENDOR and/or a different brand of rotor..
Even the crooked Communist Chinese somehow manage to peddle rotors that are straight and true.
It also depends on the brake lathe you have access to. Takes a wonderful machine to match the "factory" finish; and my old machine leaves the rotors looking like a vinyl LP. I think it's easy to make the rotors WORSE after "refinishing" than they were before, and not just with an antique lathe like mine.
I know of no-one who cuts rotors, that sets a dial indicator on the mandrel to see what it's runout is.
Non-directional finish--YES, absolutely, IF (big IF) you need to cut the rotor.
I pull them out of the box, clean the anti-rust coating off them, and put them on the vehicle. If there would be a problem, the vendor can warranty the rotor. Since I've never had a problem, the vendor has never had to honor the warranty, and I don't waste a bunch of time "fixing" what provably isn't broken/warped, AND I don't waste metal leading to "thin" rotors later on.
If the rotors you buy aren't straight and true, YOU NEED A DIFFERENT VENDOR and/or a different brand of rotor..
Even the crooked Communist Chinese somehow manage to peddle rotors that are straight and true.
I guess that makes me the first.
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Darkbreeze
Well-known member
Except that I KNEW all of them were either instructors, or master certified technicians, or both, and I have no idea at all about who you are or what your credentials are, so it's kind of hard to attach value to you "being the first". And I mean absolutely no offense by that at all.
As far as the vendors are concerned, I've seen light to moderately warped condition out of the box for rotors sold by Brakes best, Duralast, Carquest, Napa, Wagner, ACDelco, Centric (A lot of them, from this company), Raybestos, Durago, Beck Arnley, Bendix and others. So that tells me that the majority of them are probably coming off the exact same Chinese assembly lines, which, for the record, I disagree that they DO manage to peddle rotors that are straight and true or if they do they are certainly not remaining that way while traveling on the containerships.
In fact, hundreds of times I've received boxes with, for example, a Brakes Best product decal slapped on the box over the top of what is obviously a Wagner or Centric or other product brand label. Same product. I'm saying that's ALWAYS the case, because we know it isn't, but it's the case OFTEN.
The only rotors I've never found any issues with (And that's probably because I haven't used them very frequently because of cost, are Bosch, Power stop and Brembo.
Still, it's just my opinion and I thought I'd offer it here as contrast to the bad vibe on brake lathes. One thing I fully disagree with as well that was this comment though.
On race vehicles, IMO the rotors get replaced, every time, not turned, ever, because taking off material on these rotors is a very bad idea. They are going to heat up faster if you turn them down from being thinner, they are going to warp MUCH easier BECAUSE they heat up faster and further and they are going to be unsafe because they are almost certainly going to promote fade.
Race vehicles and very heavy duty trucks and suburbans, etc., are scenarios where I'd always replace if there was even a question of just breaking the glaze not being good enough.
As far as the vendors are concerned, I've seen light to moderately warped condition out of the box for rotors sold by Brakes best, Duralast, Carquest, Napa, Wagner, ACDelco, Centric (A lot of them, from this company), Raybestos, Durago, Beck Arnley, Bendix and others. So that tells me that the majority of them are probably coming off the exact same Chinese assembly lines, which, for the record, I disagree that they DO manage to peddle rotors that are straight and true or if they do they are certainly not remaining that way while traveling on the containerships.
In fact, hundreds of times I've received boxes with, for example, a Brakes Best product decal slapped on the box over the top of what is obviously a Wagner or Centric or other product brand label. Same product. I'm saying that's ALWAYS the case, because we know it isn't, but it's the case OFTEN.
The only rotors I've never found any issues with (And that's probably because I haven't used them very frequently because of cost, are Bosch, Power stop and Brembo.
Still, it's just my opinion and I thought I'd offer it here as contrast to the bad vibe on brake lathes. One thing I fully disagree with as well that was this comment though.
On race vehicles, IMO the rotors get replaced, every time, not turned, ever, because taking off material on these rotors is a very bad idea. They are going to heat up faster if you turn them down from being thinner, they are going to warp MUCH easier BECAUSE they heat up faster and further and they are going to be unsafe because they are almost certainly going to promote fade.
Race vehicles and very heavy duty trucks and suburbans, etc., are scenarios where I'd always replace if there was even a question of just breaking the glaze not being good enough.
sberry
Banned
There is an aspect more interesting than the lathe here and it's to do with the op. It wasn't girls that drove Jr to wait till Dad was well retired to open his shop, Still got dad trying to drag him back downhill, some business can never survive it. My father is a wonderful guy but never did understand gaining wealth, he understood making a living but there is a difference and in some types of enterprise the opportunity doesn't come along every day.
Some you can do better tomorrow, next week etc and some highly cyclical. I can see from some comments,, I am old school, I be live this or that, we argue about it,,, might even be a decent idea but take a hint. Even some basic math is ignored,
I know people think like this. My bud was looking for another lathe. He has a nice decent one. Doesn't use it, has no real use for it, used it about twice for anything meaningful. I asked why? So he can turn 2 drums for an old truck that hasn't moved in 5 years, scrap man barely wants it. I said buy 2 drums. No,, 60 a piece is too much so he gonna find a lathe he can buy to try to turn 2 drums not worth salvaging.
Some you can do better tomorrow, next week etc and some highly cyclical. I can see from some comments,, I am old school, I be live this or that, we argue about it,,, might even be a decent idea but take a hint. Even some basic math is ignored,
I know people think like this. My bud was looking for another lathe. He has a nice decent one. Doesn't use it, has no real use for it, used it about twice for anything meaningful. I asked why? So he can turn 2 drums for an old truck that hasn't moved in 5 years, scrap man barely wants it. I said buy 2 drums. No,, 60 a piece is too much so he gonna find a lathe he can buy to try to turn 2 drums not worth salvaging.
sberry
Banned
I have a good , great bud wants me to gather machine tools. I got to throttle that. A 15$ gauge we need and is universal is different than a 10 ton machine while is nice, he used at his old job, is a good deal but I got no work for it.
Would be in the way The same a brake lathe would be. I am not fussing and turning a few rotors, new or old and maybe more so new. No one cares, the brakes were grinding, they drove it till ruined, the roads are ****, they ain't race cars, not a nickel more in it for anyone if we put a space age finish on it, would just cost more.
If I cant make it work by putting a pad on it needs a new one.
Would be in the way The same a brake lathe would be. I am not fussing and turning a few rotors, new or old and maybe more so new. No one cares, the brakes were grinding, they drove it till ruined, the roads are ****, they ain't race cars, not a nickel more in it for anyone if we put a space age finish on it, would just cost more.
If I cant make it work by putting a pad on it needs a new one.
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sberry
Banned
So much has got so much better, easier and cheaper. Strut assembly, control arms, not worth it to fix that stuff. Especially true for those in the biz that shop for parts and is marking them up. Charge 12 to grind up a worn rotor or make 15 selling a new one. No labor, how much he got to pay a guy out of that 12 to stand there turning? Lost 25 dollars profit even if the tool was free.
sberry
Banned
Even big truck drums that way today. Some old fleets still do it but if a guy was to hike it up to Road Equipment wholesale truck parts with 400 drums on the shelf would be real surprised as to how economical drums are, slack adjusters they dam near give away. Couldn't even clean the grease off it for the replacement cost. They drop them off to busy shops.
sberry
Banned
In 1978 a wheel cyl cost 35 and a kit 7,, in 2010 it cost 11 new,, maybe less to a high user. Even by the op statement, cost 4 times what it does today. Are all these guys selling these lathes at scrap prices stupid? They are being sold by those going bust or have figured out they are not profitable.
There is a bit of use, mostly niche or some holdouts have trouble with basic math or stuck in 1968. Most brake problems I read about start with,,, I bought the best, I bought something other than the white box that good parts stores have sourced and hand over the counter. Many put that **** on the mil sedan, figuring she is in a downhill road race and wonder why it doesn't work.
Many start with,,,, I don't wanna do it twice,, then back doing it twice, many think brakes should be a once in a life deal. I had a woman tell me the other day,, I just had new brakes put on,, I ask when,,, oh, about 5 years ago,, now lives on mud roads.
Would be better served by inspection once a year and replacing a worn pad vs tossing 600 at it.
There is a bit of use, mostly niche or some holdouts have trouble with basic math or stuck in 1968. Most brake problems I read about start with,,, I bought the best, I bought something other than the white box that good parts stores have sourced and hand over the counter. Many put that **** on the mil sedan, figuring she is in a downhill road race and wonder why it doesn't work.
Many start with,,,, I don't wanna do it twice,, then back doing it twice, many think brakes should be a once in a life deal. I had a woman tell me the other day,, I just had new brakes put on,, I ask when,,, oh, about 5 years ago,, now lives on mud roads.
Would be better served by inspection once a year and replacing a worn pad vs tossing 600 at it.
