Between 265 & 485 SQ/FT Woody's Works Garage

[drivesitfar]

Woody: not only DAD OF THE YEAR points all wrapped up for the win, but now you are going to try to win UNCLE OF THE YEAR too? WELL DONE!!

any pictures of the party at your company's new party room? sounds like a blast that your nephew and maybe you (and your girls if they went too) will remember for at least a year until the next one. and maybe a few years after that.

all that basement prep should go a long ways to years of enjoyment if you don't move, but at least it will be fun while you are still there.

SUB: i'm not sure i ever used the word SKINNY to describe me and maybe you misunderstood when i said OLDER AND STRONGER.

nice that Woody will think of you when his Woofers are rocking out in the neighborhood and you know he can cause he removes snow for them to keep them happy.

 

[Bob Heine]

Glad your able to deal with the snow!
Tell them single ladies that me and Bob are waiting for them in your new revamp media room!

Just don't tell either mine or Bobs wife or we both might have to be long term basement dwellers!

Sub, where I live in Florida houses are built on slabs. Pretty sure my basement dwelling would be a one-way trip to a sealed vault.

 

[Bob Heine]

Drives, I believe Sub was referring to your post #1263 when you said: "...maybe i'll get skinny enough to crawl around under our house to maybe do a few of these ducting upgrades."

 

[sublime68charger]

Drives, I believe Sub was referring to your post #1263 when you said: "...maybe i'll get skinny enough to crawl around under our house to maybe do a few of these ducting upgrades."

BINGO!!!

Thanks Bob!

Give that man a hand!!!

Um well you know. What I mean!
No offense intended Bob.

And no weird evil eye pics from your own thread over here that for sure will freak out da Canadian women folk!!!

 

[Denwood]

Drives, yes I definitely got some fun uncle bonus points on the party. I did take some pics, however can't post them without parent/kid consent.

Bob/Sub, you guys definitely operate on a unique cerebral framework

It's all business this week, so zero reno or shop time. Making the Christmas deadline for the basement project is not looking so promising. I did manage to wire up a pile of GU10 base reno pot lights with ZigBee (automated) LED lamps. They are worth posting about as the form factor and installation vs cost ratio is excellent. The basement is getting 20 of these, all automated.

 

[drivesitfar]

Woody: no worries about not posting pictures of the nephew's party and happy to hear you were able to take a few for yourself.

I'll second that about Sub and Bob cause i can't recall ever reading any of their posts and not smiling or laughing out loud.

i know you were maybe trying to get the basement done before Christmas, but with ducting upgrades and all the cool stuff you are doing i know doing it right is more important so enjoy the process.

Do Canadians celebrate Thanksgiving too or is that just a US holiday? in any case we are having a small family meal at our place tomorrow for only 10 so i need to finish a few projects myself before they get here.

i'm hoping you don't run into any hidden issues or problems with your basement remodel and even if you do i know you'll figure them out.

good luck!!

 

[laurie71]

... I did manage to wire up a pile of GU10 base reno pot lights with ZigBee (automated) LED lamps. They are worth posting about as the form factor and installation vs cost ratio is excellent. The basement is getting 20 of these, all automated.

I'm curious: why automated bulbs, as opposed to just regular bulbs controlled by automated switches? Did you specifically want control at the individual bulb level as opposed to the complete lighting circuit, or were there other factors driving your decision?

Thanks,

Laurie

 

[Denwood]

Laurie, wife factor approval says they need to be manually controlled (overridden) by a normal switch. The upside is that each bulb can individually dim, change color temp, or turn itself off. I also don't need to worry about neutral at every switch, something most zwave switches require. In some cases I only automate lights off on no motion for x minutes, (or when we leave), so the wife and kids don't even know lights are automated.

We have about 70 devices on Smarthings and automations that dim/brighten lights based on outside Lux, night light routines (so only 1 light in a bank of six will fire up at 10% brightness after 11pm) and lighting that follows us based on motion. The Hue, GE, and Ecosmart bulbs all dim and allow on/off individually. These strategies have helped knock our consumption down about 35%.

With a home theater, having individual light control is very useful as they can all be on one circuit and switch, but managed individually. Example, screen drops and all lights in basement are turned off, except one in the bath, one in stairway, and one in hallway, all dimmed 90%. Most of my lights for the renovation pots are Ecosmart ($14) at HD with ZigBee control. I'll also use a few GU10 Philips Hue lights in the theater area which have full color control. This will be pretty cool for ambient lighting effects

The entire lighting package for this reno was about $350. That's 18 pot light reno fixtures, each with a ZigBee automated LED lamp (took out the halogen bundled with fixture) putting out equivalent 50 watts of light, but only consuming 7 watts each. This fixture is super easy to install, integrates a junction box (just add a clamp), and has overheat protection. Easy peasy to install. A six pack is $48 CAD. https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p....bal-trims-with-bulbs-included.1000142995.html

Drives, Christmas is our big holiday here..but we do Thanksgiving on the 2nd Monday of October. It's a stat holiday but not considered quite to the extent of you folks south . Other than the usual hidden junction boxes..and a set of water shut offs hidden in the ceiling..no surprises, ha.

 

[JohnnieMo]

Thanks to you, my Christmas list has a Smarthings home starter kit on it. I took forward to getting in this home automation stuff.

I wish I had bought a pot fixture like you did. I got mine at Costco, and combined with being a junky fixture, I also have had 75% of the bulbs fail in the first year.

I do find it odd how they classify those fixtures as "new or retrofit". Near as I can figure, there is no way to retrofit or newly install those fixtures in any exterior ceiling. They give you no way to do a vapour barrier that I can find. I had that same issue with my fixtures.

 

[Denwood]

Johnnie, for an exterior exposed attic install, I'd definitely add the step of installing a poly box, and post sealing the box to vapour area as well as wire penetrations after installing the light. I actually did this personally in our net zero_ish installation at Cinevate to ensure the junction boxes for our 4" flouro fixtures were sealed properly before being buried in R80 of cellulose. There were a lot of junction boxes, and pretty much every one of them would have leaked if left as the contractors did them. For the bits we spray foamed, no worries there.

I believe this attention to detail during close in is part of the reason we can heat 9000 sq/ft in a -20C average month..for $228 Our October hydro bill there was the lowest in five years ($309) despite peak rates highest ever at 18c/kwh.

My basement ceiling has no vapour or temp concerns..so all good. I will be dense packing cellulose in the ceiling as a final step in sound critical areas as it works very well for sound attenuation.

Smarthings has improved their firmware/reliability a fair bit. It's very much responsible for the 35% drop in hydro consumption at the house. The zigbee lights combined with the motion sensors have worked really well. In order of reliability I'd say the Hue White (standard bulb), Ecosmart LED (from HD) and GE Link (avoid it) are your best bets. The Hue bulbs require the Philips bridge (which ST communicates with) but the Hue bulbs run cooler, most reliably, and are amongst the least expensive.

 

[JohnnieMo]

I believe this attention to detail during close in is part of the reason we can heat 9000 sq/ft in a -20C average month..for $228 Our October hydro bill there was the lowest in five years ($309) despite peak rates highest ever at 18c/kwh.

18c/kwh!!!! That is unbelievable. Mine is locked in at 5.8 cents for 5 years.

However our government is taking us down the same path as Ontario, so let's hope for better results.

 

[Denwood]

Off peak 8c, mid peak 13c, peak 18c. Liberals have been taking a beating over this.

 

[JohnnieMo]

Off peak 8c, mid peak 13c, peak 18c. Liberals have been the asking a beating over this.

I am aware of the political turmoil.... I just never saw the actual numbers before. That is striking. I guess the good news is that you got out ahead of all this

 

[laurie71]

You're obviously much deeper down the rabbit hole of home automation than I've even dreamed of! lol

Thanks for the detailed explanation, that sounds like a terrific setup with a lot of options.

 

[1/2 Cup]

All, FYI

Our Off peak is 14c/KWH and our Peak is 31c/KWH

The solar feed in is 5c/KWH

Regards

 

[tjpavlov]

Denwood, I was just wondering why you went with GU10 bulbs and fixtures? Are those the standard up in Canada (I've heard they are in Europe)? Around me, it seems like everybody puts in BR30 floods for most homes. I'm just curious whether this is just a location difference, or whether you had a specific reason why these worked best for your application.

Thanks, as always, for all the great ideas!

 

[Denwood]

Laurie, I think I've reached the bottom of that rabbit hole

1/2, that peak rate likely makes rooftop systems like yours a lot better in terms of ROI! I like that there is an actually feed in rate, as aside from micro-fit programs here (now very difficult for a business to enroll) the feed in rate is zero...although you do build a credit. I actually think energy for many of us is too cheap. Not a popular opinion, but perhaps a more sustainable one.

Tjp, that is a good question. The primary reason for GU10 are the automation options, compact size, easy install, and the ability to aim/tilt the lights. The Ecosmart GU10s (about $14) are the least expensive Zigbee bulbs out there. Philips has a much more expensive Hue GU10 (about $45), however they have full colour options, as well as the ability to sync to movies etc. I'll use a few of these in the theatre area.

Here are the promised pics:

This kit works out to $8 per fixture. I'm not using the halo bulbs.

The fixture is super compact. You removed the junction box, install the clamp, make the connections, button up and essentially pop the fixture into the 3 1/2 hole punched in the drywall.

I like that overheat protection is in place.

These bits separate to make bulb install/replace easy.

An idea of tilt range.

These are the Zigbee bulbs.

Four installed. The closest one is set to coolest color temp, the 3 others to warmest. Note that the GU10 pictured above is warm white only..not adjustable.

Lights as they appear in the Smarthings app. I would rarely control these directly from the app, but rather control their dimming, on/off etc. via automation apps. They work like a normal bulb with a manual switch for max wife approval...however I can turn them off via automation if no motion is detected for x minutes, we leave, etc. At night, motion will only turn on one light in each bank, dimmed 90 %...basically motion night lights. The automation system also ignores a lot of these lights when we're absent, so the cat doesn't set any off when we're away. It's a weird thing to say, but we've cut our hydro usage at home over 30% by leaving the standard wall switches on, and letting automation manage usage. Many of the lights dim based on ambient outside light levels, which I've measured to cut power use by as much as 90% further: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325697

Dimming and color temp "manual" control via the app.

 

[Bob Heine]

I actually think energy for many of us is too cheap. Not a popular opinion, but perhaps a more sustainable one.

Dennis, you are right. We pay an average $0.11 per kwh and our bill is about $200 a month. That's down by 30% from five years ago. I have given up on the big ticket items because my experience has been negative and spending $25,000 to go solar with payback when I'm 92 isn't that attractive.

 

[G20-Budo]

Dennis, you are right. We pay an average $0.11 per kwh and our bill is about $200 a month. That's down by 30% from five years ago. I have given up on the big ticket items because my experience has been negative and spending $25,000 to go solar with payback when I'm 92 isn't that attractive.

Hey Bob,

What about leasing solar? That's what a lot of ppl here in AZ do. There is no up front cost, but they start saving right away. We are considering doing this.

Dennis, I'm not sure if it's been asked yet, but do you guys up north do solar much? It's pretty common here in the Arizona desert. Then again we get like 360 days of sun a year.

 

[Denwood]

Kyle, the 33% federal tax credit I see in the US, has no comparable here. Consequently you see a lot less solar this side of the border. For a short time, microfit applications with an 82c feed in rate existed, but got shut down quickly. What I did figure out is that about $6k at the business in LED lights, ecobee stats and automation is heading to a $2500/yr savings. That is miles easier to justify in terms of ROI When/if we decide to go net zero, the system panel requirements dropped a lot potentially by really focusing on efficiency first. Our last quote for a grid-tied system was $80k at the business with a 25-30 yr recovery. Feed in rates are zero, but a credit would accrue. Over that period our efficiency tweaks would save at least $75000...with recovery in 2.5 yrs! Ultimately we need to do both collectively to get net zero in NA.

Bob, there is a lot of low hanging fruit on the efficiency game. This in turn dramatically reduces rooftop system requirements. Our home costs are about $100/ month for our family of four (will drop further with a heat pump clothes dryer) and our lowest ever at the business was last month at $300. The business site is 9000 sq/ft with two tenants and my 9-5 crew of about 10. I suspect all of our thinking in this department willl see a big shift over the next few years.

 

[G20-Budo]

Dennis,

Great info there! Our main consumer of electricity in the Phoenix, Arizona area is for our air conditioning in the summers. Through the summer we're regularly at 110F +, and many days we're 115+. And it doesn't cool down too much at night. I'm not sure how I can make things more efficient from an air conditioning point of view. That is why leases solar seems to be a good option for us. Now, in saying that I realize there are some area's we can clearly become more efficient and will continue to look into it.

Thanks for the information!

 

[tjpavlov]

A couple of questions about the lighting for you.

In order to have some sort of auto-off, I am assuming that you need a sensor. That isn't built into the bulb, is it? I would assume that is something separate that you put in the room. If so, how do you determine the placement and do you have a recommended product?

Also, is the dimming only done through your phone? I like the thought that your wife has of being able to use a switch still. But does that switch dim the lights, or do you have to go onto your phone to do this?

Sorry for all the questions. I am currently in the midst of a basement renovation of my own and I feel like I am always falling through a rabbit hole with you! My Panasonic ERV just arrived the other day. In Massachusetts, we get a $500 rebate on these, so they are basically free. I only learned about this technology through your thread, so thank you!

In the interest of comparing our electricity costs, here is what I am paying in MA: $0.0949/kWh for electrical supply and $0.053/kWh distribution charge. For a 2500 square foot colonial, we are averaging around 720 kWh/mo throughout most of the year. All appliances are gas that can be. Although our rates aren't tiered, they fall dramatically in the summer.

 

[Denwood]

Kyle, I'd agree cooling is one of the tougher ones. In desert areas I've seen some great work done on earth tube cooling, but any of these solutions really need to be designed in from the get go. In summer, cooling is our largest power consumer.

TJ, that Panasonic ERV with a $500 rebate is a kicking good deal! Our unit continues to perform flawlessly. There have been zero complaints from the Missus since installing it.

I'm using a few different strategies at home to control lighting:

1. My favourite is using the SmartThings motion sensor:

It is powerered by a small lithium cell, with a 2 year expected life. You can mount it anywhere. In heavily used areas this fires up the lights, then powers them off after 5 minutes of no motion detection. You can set this however you like.

2. You can also use door sensors (I'm using the SmartThings multi-sensor) to trigger lights on and off. Our front door, opened at night will trigger the outside lights to light for 10 minutes, then turn off.

3. Geo-location. If my wife arrives in the driveway, the system senses she has arrived, and fires up the entry and main floor lights. This is all done via the app and iOS...so very seamless.

4. Automation timers. I'm using a free app that starts a timer when bedroom overhead lights are turned on. After 30-45 minutes, they turn off. This one reduces the need for motion sensors everywhere..and makes sure lights are not left on.

5. "AutoDimmer" free app. This is a very, very cool app. I'm using a free weather information app that reads outside LUX (brightness) from a local Weather Underground station. You can setup up any lights you'd like to dim at four different levels, depending on LUX levels outside. So if the dining room lights are triggered (or turned on) when it's sunny outside, they dim 80%. Most of the 1st and 2nd floor lights are controlled this way...and I've shown that it saves a lot of power, while keeping light levels at wife approval levels

6. SmartThings lighting apps. These can turn on lights, and set them to whatever brightness level you like. Our living room area lights (just 2 of four) are triggered by motion, but dimmed to 90%. This is perfect for TV viewing. The other two can be turned on and off manually...but if the system sees no motion for 20 minutes, it turns everything off.

7. SmartThings presence. If all the family members are gone, the system figures this out by iOS geolocation and shuts everything off that is not essential.

So basically, we never dim the lights using the app! If a light(s) is turned off by automation and one wants manual control, one just flips the manual switch off, then on.

At night (the hub goes into night mode at midnight) the motion sensors run automatons that only run at night. For example, if you walk across the main floor, dining room light 1 (of 3) lights at 10% brightness, as does one of the stair lights, and 2 of the 7 kitchen lights. If motion is not detected again after 5 minutes (or whatever you choose) the lights are turned off.

I realise that's a chunk of info, however it works very well for the family. If you go down that route, I'd be happy to help you set up your hub...once you figure out the SmartThings web IDE, it's all cut and paste.

As a reminder of how effective all of this is, here's the power usage before/after automation that I posted a few weeks back. The home savings are around 35% with respect to usage.

 

[redman333]

Re: Woody's Works Garage - rebirth!

Have you had any problems with the smarthings system? I had gone that route in my home and would get lights on during the day, then at night when we got to the house the lights would turn off. Then we'd be sitting in the house and everything would shut off and you look at the app and it would say we left the house. I had so many problems with it that I ended up returning it. This was a problem too since they have a 15 day return policy and I was at 30 days. Long story short I did get to return it.

I worked with Samsung several times also. I also had a problem getting them to help me because Everytime I called they would send me to 15 different dept before finally finding the correct one. Almost like they didn't know that they even had the product. It was a very aggravating month. Now since I've retuned it I've seen that they did some updates but I'm very Leary about trying it again after my experience with it.

Mind you too I am on the geek side of things so these sort of gadgets and such aren't new to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Denwood]

Red, the ST system has worked well for us, however I've also heard your story before. It sounds like your problem was with presence sensing...something that for us has worked surprisingly well. I've never called them with a problem (yet)...normally turning to the forums for solutions.

Vera's support by phone has been very good, so a vote for them on that front. It's just not as user friendly in terms of the interface and programming.

 

[redman333]

Red, the ST system has worked well for us, however I've also heard your story before. It sounds like your problem was with presence sensing...something that for us has worked surprisingly well. I've never called them with a problem (yet)...normally turning to the forums for solutions.

Vera's support by phone has been very good, so a vote for them on that front. It's just not as user friendly in terms of the interface and programming.

I didn't even think about Vera. They were on my list of home automation when I first started looking but forgot about them after my ST attempt failed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Denwood]

We're using Vera at the business site. It works very well, but took some more time to get everything working between security system, window automation, Ecobee 3 stats and HRV. Vera is also 100% local processing (although the Ecobee3 communicate via a web based channel), so is not impacted with respect to automation when there are problems on the web.

Once SmartThings sorts a 100% local processing model, but with all the app and web IDE tools + user support, I figure it will be pretty awesome.

 

[txusa03]

Hi Denwood, I am not an expert, but I bought the ST (first gen hub) to see how I like it but ended up returning it.

I like the concept of geofencing but I think it eats up a lot on battery juice on my phone. I had it setup so that I get a message when someone comes home or leave the house. I also set it up to auto arm all door sensor when last person leave the house and auto disarm when first person approach house. Great way to keep track of activity if you have kids.

I don't have dimmers on my lights so I did not mess around with lights control.

I might look into this again with second gen hub and the fact it is on sale right now on amazon.

 

[txusa03]

I forgot to ask, do you have camera tied into the ST hub? One of my main reason for buying this is to also tie camera surveillance into the home automation system. I have not gotten that far and wonder if you have any plan to go that route as well.

 

[redman333]

Hi Denwood, I am not an expert, but I bought the ST (first gen hub) to see how I like it but ended up returning it.



I like the concept of geofencing but I think it eats up a lot on battery juice on my phone. I had it setup so that I get a message when someone comes home or leave the house. I also set it up to auto arm all door sensor when last person leave the house and auto disarm when first person approach house. Great way to keep track of activity if you have kids.



I don't have dimmers on my lights so I did not mess around with lights control.



I might look into this again with second gen hub and the fact it is on sale right now on amazon.

I had the second gen hub and that's the one I returned due to too many issues with it.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[redman333]

I forgot to ask, do you have camera tied into the ST hub? One of my main reason for buying this is to also tie camera surveillance into the home automation system. I have not gotten that far and wonder if you have any plan to go that route as well.

I have a stand alone 8 camera system for outside and drop cams inside so no need for camera integration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Denwood]

TX, I have no cameras tied in as the Amcrest cameras we're using already have a full featured app, motion alerts, multi destination recording etc. I do know that the Amcrest 1080p PTZ cams do have support with live video in SmartThings: https://community.smartthings.com/t...-motion-video-record-more-ip-camera-dth/45023 and folks are using this in their wall mounted tablet systems running a tiles app for SmartThings...more or less a control panel.

Sorry to hear you guys had problems with SmartThings. Automation systems can be still very much lacking in either ease of use or reliability. My experience with Vera and SmartThings has been quite good overall. I did have to spend some time at start up to ensure the mesh networks were reliable by adding a few strategically placed devices.

Geofencing has not been an issue for us at all..it just works. I've observed no battery issues either, however we're iOS only at this point.

 

[txusa03]

Looks like I need to do a lot of reading to learn more about home automation and home surveillance. Thanks for sharing your experience and feedback fellas!

 

[drivesitfar]

Woody: sorry i've been absent from my usual almost daily postings, but you lose me a bit when you go into the electrical stuff. that said i truly appreciate your skills and you taking the time to illustrate and tell us what is available out there now. great stuff and i NEED TO LEARN IT.

how's the basement going and i bet the prep work is maybe the hardest part to doing your new media room even though you've already got most of the equipment.

i have told several members about your waxing (sort of ) of the underside of your Audi and wondering how you like the results so far or have you had it up on lift yet now that your temps have dropped to below ZERO again?

one last thing i want to mention is i helped start a WOODWORKING 101 thread that has a very good teacher(s) hosting it so maybe one day i can change from a WOOD BUTCHER to a WOODWORKER. I'd love to see a few more of your posts on that thread and love your little shop vac dust collection system.

also started a Buffing 101 thread in case you want to see how members shine up their STUFF and link is in my sig line.

cheers and hope you have a great holiday season

 

[Denwood]

Drives, it's been a busy few weeks indeed. I've been plugging away in the basement so have done floor levelling, tile fill-in (the center area was bare concrete) and am now finishing up framing. The Dewalt chop saw and stand purchased for the deck project are proving pretty awesome right now. My shop dust collection setup had the Dust Deputy and vacuum completely portable for just the reasons you see here. It does an excellent job keeping dust under control as I'm cutting in the basement. The fancy pants heat pump (ventless) dryer showed up today. The Energuide rating is interesting The appliances are moved out of the way right now, but will tuck into the new laundry niche very soon.

Renovating an old house is always three steps forward, one step back as secrets are revealed. The last one was a set of water shut offs hidden in the ceiling. I found them more or less by accident as I was installing the new Zigbee LED lights. This work of course is all so I can create the media room...an area that is so far untouched.

Thanks as always for pointing out those threads. The woodworking one is something I have quite a hunger for..just not a lot of time until the kids get a bit older

 

[drivesitfar]

Woody: I really like your set up with your Dewalt and the sawdust collection system. i just bought a used Dewalt similar to yours and i'm looking forward to using it on my fence and deck project this spring. just curious how you store it in your garage when you are not using it cause it ain't no little thing?

also curious if the sawdust from the Dewalt ends up in the shop vac cause mine seems like that might be one of the weak points of this saw?

best of luck on the progress and hope you don't have any more surprises.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY!!

 

[1/2 Cup]

Dennis, thank you for the update.

You are certainly moving along with your project so there is another milestone with your framing finished. Well done..

Regards

 

[Denwood]

Drives, the Dusty Deputy (is connected in the basement) captures 99% of the sawdust so other than shaking off the filter occasionally, there's no need to empty the vac connected to the Dewalt. There is a small amount of dust "free" on each cut, but overall dust levels after each cut are quite good. I'd guess at 85-90% capture. For shop storage, the stand folds up and sits on top of my material cart, and the saw itself sits on my red tool box at the back of the shop. Both bits tuck out of the way nicely. You'll find great use from your acquisition!

1/2, this project goes on much longer than I'd like, however the end result will be great

Yesterday I installed 10 more of the GU10 LED pot lights to bring spacing in the laundry and kitchen area around 5ft. This is a good task lighting spread for these lights. My drywall man starts on Monday, so wiring needs to be done in the laundry, kitchen and new office nook over the next few days.

 

[Matias]

You are correct in saying the end result will be great I bet the media room must add to the motivation to get these other things done.

Is the drywall up? Should change the look and feel of the space...

 

[dlcwent]

Woody, just wanted to pop in and wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas. I don't always make a comment when I'm here keeping up with your thread, but I am here often.