My 2-Car Porcelain Tile Install....

[ard]

Out of curiosity, are the garage walls and ceiling sealed? Meaning completely drywalled with no ventilation or air that can circulate and/or exit out of the structure?

Yes, walls & ceiling insulated, drywalled, textured and painted. Uninsulated garage doors. No heat or AC.

Location is northern CA, Sierra foothills. Low temps under freezing perhaps 5-10 days a year, but usually just a light frost. (Basically pool equipment and well head need no freeze protection with just a simple 3 sided structure over them.)

We have a wet-cool season and a hot-dry season. In the depths of the wet cool winter Id get the efflorescence and darkening. But as mentioned above, not much any more. BUT...CA is in the 4 or 5th year of drought.

The rear wall is cut into the existing hillside a bit- so the stem wall is up 24-30 inches, across the back and one side. The two areas that demonstrated the moisture pattern were towards the rear wall.

I may be looking at decking/tiles, or just repouring it. I need to cut out and excavate for a footing for a 2 post lift....whats the incremental cost of breaking it all up, fixing the thickness at the lift, rebar it all and pour. Although if I repour it all, still need to do something with the finish..... PITA.

thx

 

[Gerald O]

Sounds like missing or inadequate foundation drains in the back cut-in area. Last home I owned in California, Santa Cruz mountains, was cut into the hillside like that. It had a walk-out basement that would experience floor dampness a few times a year around the edges that were below grade. It turned out that the French drains along the foundation at the sides of the home were partly clogged due to wrong fill (just soil), and the roof gutter downspouts were undersized and too few. This caused them to overflow during heavy rain, which dumped a lot of water around the foundation.

 

[LX-Markham]

That's the reason behind me started this thread... Purpose was to educate, help and to share my knowledge with those interested in tiling their garage floor.

I keep checking back on this thread and day dreaming. One day, one day maybe. So much other work to finish in the garage before thinking about floors.

 

[Dakota00]

Yes, walls & ceiling insulated, drywalled, textured and painted. Uninsulated garage doors. No heat or AC.

Location is northern CA, Sierra foothills. Low temps under freezing perhaps 5-10 days a year, but usually just a light frost. (Basically pool equipment and well head need no freeze protection with just a simple 3 sided structure over them.)

We have a wet-cool season and a hot-dry season. In the depths of the wet cool winter Id get the efflorescence and darkening. But as mentioned above, not much any more. BUT...CA is in the 4 or 5th year of drought.

The rear wall is cut into the existing hillside a bit- so the stem wall is up 24-30 inches, across the back and one side. The two areas that demonstrated the moisture pattern were towards the rear wall.

I may be looking at decking/tiles, or just repouring it. I need to cut out and excavate for a footing for a 2 post lift....whats the incremental cost of breaking it all up, fixing the thickness at the lift, rebar it all and pour. Although if I repour it all, still need to do something with the finish..... PITA.

thx

Just as I suspected, that's why I asked. What I figure because the walls and ceiling are insulated making for warmer air on top mixing with the coolness of the concrete slab which is most likely causing condensation on the surface of the slab. Not moisture coming from beneath the slab...
Again, not seeing this first hand it's just a judgment call, based on what you have told me. Another reason why you haven't seen the dampness in the last few years because of warmer temps. If this is the case, you could still tile the area. But understand condensation could still form on top of the tiles and in the grout lines.

I keep checking back on this thread and day dreaming. One day, one day maybe. So much other work to finish in the garage before thinking about floors.

Don you already have a lot on your plate with finishing up your garage, which BTW is turning out spectacular! If/when you are ready and want to go the tiling route let me know. Come by my place we can have a chat and a beer!

 

[ard]

Just as I suspected, that's why I asked. What I figure because the walls and ceiling are insulated making for warmer air on top mixing with the coolness of the concrete slab which is most likely causing condensation on the surface of the slab. Not moisture coming from beneath the slab...
Again, not seeing this first hand it's just a judgment call, based on what you have told me. Another reason why you haven't seen the dampness in the last few years because of warmer temps. If this is the case, you could still tile the area. But understand condensation could still form on top of the tiles and in the grout lines.

!

I thought the efflorescence was a sure sign it was coming up throught the concrete...

I am going to take a hard look at the rear wall. Maybe excavate and do a proper french drain along the entire length...

 

[Sokoloff]

Great looking floor. This thread and a couple others have convinced me to go for porcelain through-color tile.

At Home Depot tonight, I couldn't find any uniform/through-color tiles. Some were "close" but none seems uniform color throughout. Am I mistaken in thinking that a porcelain tile could be uniform color throughout? I'll try a "real" tile store and Lowes, but figured I'd ask the experts here as well.

 

[Dakota00]

Am I mistaken in thinking that a porcelain tile could be uniform color throughout? I'll try a "real" tile store and Lowes, but figured I'd ask the experts here as well.

You are not mistaken, I have through-body porcelain tiles... A tile store should have what you are looking for. If you find something you like, don't pay full price. They usually give their contractors a 35-40% discount vs people just walking in. Always ask for the best pricing they can do!

 

[Angelfire]

Great looking floor. This thread and a couple others have convinced me to go for porcelain through-color tile.

At Home Depot tonight, I couldn't find any uniform/through-color tiles. Some were "close" but none seems uniform color throughout. Am I mistaken in thinking that a porcelain tile could be uniform color throughout? I'll try a "real" tile store and Lowes, but figured I'd ask the experts here as well.

You might also keep an eye out for deals at builddirect.com. Their prices are kind of high particularly as shipping needs to be added but they have some very good clearance deals. I was able to purchase a very high spec'Ed tile for about $1.27/sf through one of their clearance deals

 

[OJ Bartley]

I didn't use through body, but they're still tough as nails. The only thing I might change for mine would be to fit a little higher coefficient of friction, mine can be a little slippery when wet.

I'm not sure where you are, but my local Home Depot (Toronto) has some $0.97 psf porcelain on right now. Might be worth a look.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

 

[Avplayer]

Just finished this entire thread...amazing info and getting some great ideas for down the road...thanx again to the OP and everyone who has also contributed to this thrad

 

[Thirdyfivepickup]

Really amazing floor. I learned alot, too. I'm shocked that the concrete spacers didnt crack under the lift when drilling or cranking down the bolts. There's not much material there where the bolt goes through.

Again, really beautiful floor!

 

[Dakota00]

Thank you guys for the compliments and reading my thread!

Those concrete pads are solid as a rock! No issues of cracking when the holes were drilled, or when the bolts were torqued down.

 

[SiGmA_X]

I didn't use through body, but they're still tough as nails. The only thing I might change for mine would be to fit a little higher coefficient of friction, mine can be a little slippery when wet.

I'm not sure where you are, but my local Home Depot (Toronto) has some $0.97 psf porcelain on right now. Might be worth a look.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

What COF did you use? All of your pictures are dead, BTW

 

[Homebody]

Subscribed Great job and thanks for sharing!!

 

[tig]

For those of you considering an epoxy floor... Don't. In 2006 I had an epoxy floor professionally installed.

I hate it. It totally regret doing it. I wish I had known about porcelain at the time. I can't find anything I drop. The epoxy is stained. Its coming up in many places.

 

[jfoster]

For the experts: We live in an area that isn't much above sea level. We've had water in the garage twice in the last 15 years. How would porcelain tile handle getting submerged for a day or so then dry out?

 

[Cobradriver]

For the experts: We live in an area that isn't much above sea level. We've had water in the garage twice in the last 15 years. How would porcelain tile handle getting submerged for a day or so then dry out?

The lanai on my house has a ~600sq ft screened enclosure. The concrete is covered with a mid grade porcelain tile. Florida gets just a wee bit of rain in the summer. One corner of the floor is under water until it drains. That said the floor is almost 20 years old and when you pressure wash it the tiles look like they were just installed. No problems at all with lifting.

Chris

 

[jfoster]

The lanai on my house has a ~600sq ft screened enclosure. The concrete is covered with a mid grade porcelain tile. Florida gets just a wee bit of rain in the summer. One corner of the floor is under water until it drains. That said the floor is almost 20 years old and when you pressure wash it the tiles look like they were just installed. No problems at all with lifting.

Chris

Thank you sir! I'm over in St. Pete

 

[Dakota00]

For the experts: We live in an area that isn't much above sea level. We've had water in the garage twice in the last 15 years. How would porcelain tile handle getting submerged for a day or so then dry out?

In your situation there would be no issue... BUT, if you lived in an area where temps drop below freezing and water did submerge the tiles. Then this could be a problem, once water is under the tiles and it begins to freeze and expand. The tiles could break free from the adhesion bond of the thinset.

 

[ChargedUp!]

So I haven't seen this asked or I didn't look hard enough but how does a person tile around floor drains? I have 2 round floor drains in my garage and the floor slopes to the drains in each bay. The drains are near the middle (roughly) of each bay. Also, what would someone fill control cuts with? Lastly, I already have a 2 post installed in my garage. Any issue with just tiling up to it? I know I couldn't drop the arms the final 1/2" but any other gotchas?
Thanks!

 

[Dakota00]

So I haven't seen this asked or I didn't look hard enough but how does a person tile around floor drains? I have 2 round floor drains in my garage and the floor slopes to the drains in each bay. The drains are near the middle (roughly) of each bay. Also, what would someone fill control cuts with? Lastly, I already have a 2 post installed in my garage. Any issue with just tiling up to it? I know I couldn't drop the arms the final 1/2" but any other gotchas?
Thanks!

Tiling around a floor drain has near endless ways of finishing. Do you want the drain exposed? Or covered with a tile, still functional. But yet not seen as a visual distraction? Regarding the control joints, are you talking about before tiling or after if they are honored in the grout lines?
There's no issues with tiling up to the lift, other than you wont be able to drop the arms to the full resting position like you mentioned.

 

[ChargedUp!]

The floor drain is round and has a grate that comes out for being able to clean out the gunk. I have had to clean out sand before that comes in from the road so accessibility is still a must. The floor slopes to the drain though so do I just cut the tiles in multiple pieces to slope down? How do I make it look decent?
I'd like to just tile over the control cuts because just tiling up to them would look odd. My garage is just under 1000' so this would probably take a long *** time to complete. Probably harder to empty the garage though. :/

 

[SiGmA_X]

You want to honor the control joints. Check out Ray's thread, he explains this in depth in post #8: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294935

You can do half and half with your garage. Move everything to one side, tile, move to other side, tile.

The rest of your questions, someone with experience (Dakota!) needs to answer.

 

[Dakota00]

The floor drain is round and has a grate that comes out for being able to clean out the gunk. I have had to clean out sand before that comes in from the road so accessibility is still a must. The floor slopes to the drain though so do I just cut the tiles in multiple pieces to slope down? How do I make it look decent?
I'd like to just tile over the control cuts because just tiling up to them would look odd. My garage is just under 1000' so this would probably take a long *** time to complete. Probably harder to empty the garage though. :/

Install the tiles following the slope of the concrete towards the drain. If the drain falls onto one tile, you can do something like this. As an example.

As for the control joints, if the slab is very stable and no movement has occurred over the years and no additional stress cracks have developed. You need to be 100% certain of this! You can tile over the joints. I've done this before and never had an issues, BUT I knew for sure the slab wasn't going to move or the settling had already occurred. I still suggest honoring the joints when possible or incorporate them into your flooring layout.

 

[vavet]

LOVE LOVE LOVE this project. It's no more expensive than good epoxy and I'm convinced it looks better and will last longer.

Quick question for those in the know...how hard would it be to use two different thickness tiles - 3/8" and 7/16". In theory, it's easy. I would just use a little more thinset under the 3/8" tile to build it up. Is it really that easy? Is that something a rookie/novice can pull off with decent results?


Thanks.

EDIT because I just thought of a second question: I have Sherwin-Williams Shur-crete epoxy applied by the builder's painting subcontractor. Would I need to grind that to remove before applying tile? Will the thinset adhere to that sufficiently? The first time it was applied was Aug 2015. In July/Aug 2016, it was ground (most of it) and reapplied. It has since started to peel/flake up.

 

[Dakota00]

With these tiles in question, will they be used in a pattern layout and used throughout the whole floor? Or are you planning to use one type first and then finish with the other?

The failed epoxy will have to be removed, otherwise the thinset will not bond to the concrete.

 

[vavet]

With these tiles in question, will they be used in a pattern layout and used throughout the whole floor? Or are you planning to use one type first and then finish with the other?

The failed epoxy will have to be removed, otherwise the thinset will not bond to the concrete.

I was thinking of a pattern. Might be as simple as a simple checkerboard pattern, but haven't really decided.

 

[Dakota00]

Doing a checkerboard pattern with different thickness of tiles will be a huge pain in the ***! Unless you are willing to do 2ft x 2ft or 3ft x 3ft sized patterns, it's a lot easier on the eyes.

 

[SteveL]

"Quote: "The failed epoxy will have to be removed, otherwise the thinset will not bond to the concrete."

Does this apply to a floor that has a two part epoxy that has no flaking/pealing issues? I have about 500 sq ft that is epoxied and another 250 sq ft that was poured later to cover that has not been epoxied.

Also, have a buddy that is building a new home and wants to tile the garage and have the driveway poured so it's flush with the tile. You said earlier that you would wait a year to tile over a new floor so how would you accomplish this? Can't imagine his wife living with a gravel driveway for a year waiting for the floor to settle.

 

[Dakota00]

Hey Steve,

If the epoxy is in good condition and not coming up, you would need to rough up the finish and apply a skim coat to the area with a certain thinset that will adhere to the epoxy. Then you can tile over the area. I can get into more details, if you like through PM's.

For your friend... If it's a must to have the transition flush between the garage floor and driveway. He needs to set the height with a few tiles laid out at the edge of the garage floor, also take into a count the thickness of the thinset. Personally, I would keep the existing concrete garage floor and driveway at the same height. Tile the floor and use an edge protector where the tiles start. That little bit of height will help keep water and debris from entering the garage.

 

[OJ Bartley]

Also, if the driveway is asphalt like mine, it will probably compress or sink over time where the tires roll, so it won't be perfect for long. You can get really nice edge transitions for the tile. I used one in my garage, I think it was called a reno ramp.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

 

[SteveL]

Thanks. It will be concrete and his big issue is that he rolls items in and out of the garage often and thinks the transition strip will cause issues with the casters. He's got a high end pellet grill that is kept in the garage when not in use and rolls it out to cook. After its cooled off, rolls it back in. Rolling tool cabinets may be an issue too since they weigh so much.

 

[Dakota00]

With the proper planning and prep, he should have no issues getting the tiled garage floor and driveway flush for his needs.

 

[jfoster]

I found a good deal on some 24"x24" tile. Is that too large?

 

[Dakota00]

I found a good deal on some 24"x24" tile. Is that too large?

It can be a bit challenging for a DIY'er when dealing with large format tiles. You need to take extra steps making sure your concrete is fairly flat. Filling in or removing any high spots, will greatly reduce the stress and aid in a better installation. I can't stress this enough, ensure when laying your tiles that there isn't any voids underneath the tile and that there is full contact with the thinset!

 

[imgn tht]

I have a lot of spalling in my 400sq ft garage. Assuming I'd need to patch and level it all before a job like this?

I also have a cheap DIY Rustoleum epoxy that was put on about 3-4 years ago. It is very thin, only a single coat and no clear. It has lifted in some areas, and completely worn away in others. With the use of so much thinset, do I still need to grind off all the epoxy before tackling a job like this?

 

[Dakota00]

Yes you'll need to clean, patch and level off those areas before tiling. Taking the extra time to prep the floor, will save you a lot of frustration, time and make for a better/cleaner install.
Ideally removing all the old epoxy would be the best way to go. At least if you can, rough up the areas that wont come off so the thinset has something to bite too. Then hit the area with a powerwasher or vacuum to remove all the failed epoxy.

 

[imgn tht]

Yes you'll need to clean, patch and level off those areas before tiling. Taking the extra time to prep the floor, will save you a lot of frustration, time and make for a better/cleaner install.
Ideally removing all the old epoxy would be the best way to go. At least if you can, rough up the areas that wont come off so the thinset has something to bite too. Then hit the area with a powerwasher or vacuum to remove all the failed epoxy.

Good to know. I'm still up in the air on which sort of floor covering to go with, but in all cases except a PVC interlocking, I will need to patch the existing spalling and powerwash the floor. I may rent an Edco grinder as well, but I'm told those from Home Depot aren't very good. I have another commercial equipment rental store near me that also has multiple machines. Not sure if any are better or the right tool for the job. Some examples below...

http://buttreyrental.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=22&key=FLGRINDELC

http://buttreyrental.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=22&key=DISCGRIND06

http://buttreyrental.com/equipment.asp?action=category&category=22&key=DISCGRIND1

 

[Matstock4]

What a great thread! I read and reviewed in just one day! Full of fantastic information and plenty for me to digest. That being said I'm​ basically leaning towards tile and adding a 4 post lift. The main hurdle I'm up against is a undiagnosed moisture/mildew issue. I haven't seen any comments on the viability of Schluter's Ditra to prevent moisture coming from below. On their website and video they talk about it being a vapor barrier in both directions. I would be curious on everyone's thoughts!

Thanks and happy Father's day to all the Dad's out there!

 

[Dakota00]

Is there always moisture on the surface of your concrete floor?