bcradio
Well-known member
Poor choice in thinking one brand makes the best of everything
Are snap on sockets worth the money?
- Thread starter schmoldty
- Start date
Poor choice in thinking one brand makes the best of everything
trackwelder
Well-known member
That's right you can't see how much better it could be because you do not have the tools we are talking about. Nothing wrong with using cheap stuff if that's what you like. There is a difference in it but some guys will never see it because they don't want to.
trackwelder
Well-known member
Where did I say one brand makes the best of everything? Only poor choice here are your words
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bcradio
Well-known member
I didn't say you said that....
red94chev
Well-known member
I love my Snapon sockets. That being said, it took me years to collect them as i only buy them when the truck has good deals or eBay buys. My dad was always a huge Snapon guy so I naturally always leaned towards Snapon. I also own a full set of Craftsman sockets and I love them too and have never broke one. Buy what you like and I would buy them with your discount if I had it.
Nope. This is wrong. A stiff tool transmits more torque. A cheap socket contacts closer to the axis of rotation so your energy goes into squeezing the nut and deforming the tool.
God I hope none of you are engineers.
Yes! If you want to torque a fastener to 100 ftlbs and you have 2' ratchet, you will need to apply more than 50lbs (50 x 2ft =100ftlbs). To overcome the static deflections, you may need to apply 5% more force. If you are using a HF breaker, which isn't heat treated properly maybe you would need 10% more force.
If you are torquing 20 bolts with a torque wrench, then add a 12" extension for the next 20, the second set of bolts won't be as tight.
If you are using an impact wrench and you have a really stubborn bolt, you should use your shallow socket.
If you guys don't know this, learn it now. If you want to argue, I need to find S new discussion group with smarter members.
Hmm, this simply isn't correct. Do your free body diagram. There are only two forces here: you applying and the nut resisting. Don't confuse "give" in the extensions as applying a force, it will (slightly) absorb some energy (force times distance) requiring (a very little) extra work from you, but it doesn't affect the torque applied.
That is what was taught in the late 1970's, but then I'm an electrical engineer, not a mechanical, so maybe you shouldn't believe me.
Dingleburry
Well-known member
No. No snap on is worth it. I think imma get **** for this but i think its a waste of money IMHO. Ive not seen any destructive testing against other top quality brands like Wright, SK, Knipex, PB Swiss, Wiha, Wera, Craftsman, and all the other ones i missed to prove they are worth it. And to prove that their alloy and heat treatment is far superior. Only a few items are worth it. Like i love their wire strippers/crimpers nothing beats them.
Actually. I have brand new williams usa sockets.
First use they are mushrooming around the square drive end.
It WAS with a wobble extention, no 6 foot snipe or anything.
3/8 drive ratchet. Was pretty suprised. And kinda dissapointed with snap on. Im assuming its same alloy/metalurgy/heat treatments. But then again maybe it isnt.
Actually. I have brand new williams usa sockets.
First use they are mushrooming around the square drive end.
It WAS with a wobble extention, no 6 foot snipe or anything.
3/8 drive ratchet. Was pretty suprised. And kinda dissapointed with snap on. Im assuming its same alloy/metalurgy/heat treatments. But then again maybe it isnt.
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Dingleburry
Well-known member
I think i agree. A deflection would only come into play with impact type forces? If its a constant 50lb. Even if it deflects, it only deflects so far then applies the full 100 ft lbs?
Badasssapper67
Well-known member
Worth it? Depends on your cash flow obviously, but where it is ABSOLUTLEY worth it is in specialty socket sets like flex sockets. Sockets like spark plug sockets and such you're not likely to break or chip any time soon.
Ask yourself, when it comes time to replace a socket, what country is it going to be manufactured in? Flex sockets need to be made of the best materials and workmanship. Break a C'man socket in 4 years and your warrantied replacement will be made where and by whom?
If I could get a 50% discount I would start with everything that I want to have the absolute best steal in, flex sockets especially, pry bars, easy outs, then I'd borrow as much money from family as I could and I'd buy the socket sets.
All of my Snappy socketsets are second hand but they are still awesome, almost as good as my Mac's. (hahahaha)
Ask yourself, when it comes time to replace a socket, what country is it going to be manufactured in? Flex sockets need to be made of the best materials and workmanship. Break a C'man socket in 4 years and your warrantied replacement will be made where and by whom?
If I could get a 50% discount I would start with everything that I want to have the absolute best steal in, flex sockets especially, pry bars, easy outs, then I'd borrow as much money from family as I could and I'd buy the socket sets.
All of my Snappy socketsets are second hand but they are still awesome, almost as good as my Mac's. (hahahaha)
No need for this. Discussion and debate often occurs on most forums like this. If groupthink was the norm, it would be a very boring forum. If you can't play nice, maybe you should take a self-imposed time-out.
I am not. You are blowing these effects way out of proportions - if we are talking about similar sockets. And almost ALL sockets on the market today are indeed very similar.
Even a specifically designed socket to squeeze and deform the nut as much as possible would in all likelihood not do good enough job for the user to notice any difference vs. regular socket.
And for most fasteners - bolts this obviously doesn't apply.
So there - you are grasping straws and like I pointed out earlier - based on pure speculation that Snap On sockets are different than others.
That said, I have about 70 Snap On sockets and I like them. Fit, finish, and material quality is very good. And on top of that they give me certain bragging rights - the bling factor. There is no need for this nonsense.
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mbshop
Well-known member
I made my money on my tools. To me they are the answer to being a pro. So my working tools were so and mac. Can only remember one failure of a 17 mm impact that should have been replaced earlier because it was severely worn out. This brings up a safety issue, never put your hand on an impact socket while using it. I had no time to worry about my tools nor chase them down. So I got the best to me and I more than got my use out of them.
Adam, you mix up hardness and stiffness - super hard tool steel lets say 53 HRC and softer steel at 35 HRC have nearly the same stiffness or Young modulus around 200 GPa.
Watch the "what is hardness" video on youtube and you will understand.
Hard steel will flex the same as soft steel under load, but the harder steel will withstand more flex without being permanently deformed.
Fun fact 1 - Your super hard thin walled Snap-On sockets will flex more under load than your thick walled soft HF sockets.
Fun fact 2 - A super hard Snap-On breaker bar will flex the same under load as a softer HF breaker bar if the dimensions are the same and the load is under the level of permanent deformation of the softer HF steel
Watch the "what is hardness" video on youtube and you will understand.
Hard steel will flex the same as soft steel under load, but the harder steel will withstand more flex without being permanently deformed.
Fun fact 1 - Your super hard thin walled Snap-On sockets will flex more under load than your thick walled soft HF sockets.
Fun fact 2 - A super hard Snap-On breaker bar will flex the same under load as a softer HF breaker bar if the dimensions are the same and the load is under the level of permanent deformation of the softer HF steel
Badasssapper67
Well-known member
No need for this. Discussion and debate often occurs on most forums like this. If groupthink was the norm, it would be a very boring forum. If you can't play nice, maybe you should take a self-imposed time-out.
For the most part we're grown men here. If someone wants to argue your science with their intuition it's not a viable slam on your character or honor, it's their opinion.
Laugh out loud and crack open a cold one. I guarantee you wont find a better forum for what is done here.
Dingleburry
Well-known member
What tools are you talking about? Snap off?
His choice in tools got the job done didnt it?
How much better could it have been?
"Some guys will never see it" see what?
Give me some SOLID evidence SO is superior.
You sounds like an apple fan buy vs an android fanboy.
So what you can brag you have snap on? Show it off to other dudes? Good for you tell someone who cares. Give me some solid proof they are worth what they charge. Destructive testing preferred against other "top quality" brands.
"Because they dont want to?" Ever thought some people cant spend 500,000$ on a six piece socket set?
C'mon use that thing between your ears. And im not talking about your mouth.
Gtfo. This is a tool discussion forum. Not a who has more expensive tools forum.
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Creating a separate thread about these things would be fun, so much of this misunderstood. Needless to say I completely agree.Adam, you mix up hardness and stiffness - super hard tool steel lets say 53 HRC and softer steel at 35 HRC have nearly the same stiffness or Young modulus around 200 GPa.
Watch the "what is hardness" video on youtube and you will understand.
Hard steel will flex the same as soft steel under load, but the harder steel will withstand more flex without being permanently deformed.
Fun fact 1 - Your super hard thin walled Snap-On sockets will flex more under load than your thick walled soft HF sockets.
Fun fact 2 - A super hard Snap-On breaker bar will flex the same under load as a softer HF breaker bar if the dimensions are the same and the load is under the level of permanent deformation of the softer HF steel
sberry
Banned
I agree there is more twist in a deep socket. But with 2 similar sockets, Say an SK and a Snap I think the torque it takes to use either one is the same. You don't change the setting with a torque wrench with different sockets or extensions.
But all this **** which is way over my head don't mean a pinch of **** to a bolt. Only a few of the fasteners I deal with are even critical, torques 1 set of head bolts to an old tractor in the last year and didn't even bother looking it up.
This is what the question is about,,, is it worth it? You might be able to prove it is but its not night and day and most people are not using this on hi test bolts 24/7. That some shave or tiny sliver is somehow worth it, as someone said,,, 10-15% better in some ultimate situation and or test and 10 or 15,,, being conservative,,, x the price.
There is a point, does it work? Does it need to work better? With a welder or air comp you can double the price and the benefit can be obvious as daylight. My neighbor and good Bud who just died is a master of the deal. He had some snap stuff and I been around and used some of all of it.
I had a Grandfather collected a few things which my uncle gets most of. I have a few pieces, its great and any number of reasons why its good but if it all was gone and I had to start over today would march a credit card right down to HF to get my feet under myself and see what happened when the dust settled.
My other Bud, He had SK stuff along the way for small sets and it was nice, got another all Snaps, aint one of those guys worked in mine ever said you need better tools. . I need a better tool box.
But all this **** which is way over my head don't mean a pinch of **** to a bolt. Only a few of the fasteners I deal with are even critical, torques 1 set of head bolts to an old tractor in the last year and didn't even bother looking it up.
This is what the question is about,,, is it worth it? You might be able to prove it is but its not night and day and most people are not using this on hi test bolts 24/7. That some shave or tiny sliver is somehow worth it, as someone said,,, 10-15% better in some ultimate situation and or test and 10 or 15,,, being conservative,,, x the price.
There is a point, does it work? Does it need to work better? With a welder or air comp you can double the price and the benefit can be obvious as daylight. My neighbor and good Bud who just died is a master of the deal. He had some snap stuff and I been around and used some of all of it.
I had a Grandfather collected a few things which my uncle gets most of. I have a few pieces, its great and any number of reasons why its good but if it all was gone and I had to start over today would march a credit card right down to HF to get my feet under myself and see what happened when the dust settled.
My other Bud, He had SK stuff along the way for small sets and it was nice, got another all Snaps, aint one of those guys worked in mine ever said you need better tools. . I need a better tool box.
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Finky198
Well-known member
I own both Cman USA and Snap on sockets Not only is their a noticeable difference in how there built/designed,( broaching, thickness, heat treat, metallurgy, tolerances...) but in higher torque applications the cman have more give similar to the effect of a cheap impact extension causing torque loss. Input Torque is lost through torsion across the socket. I've only noticed it with deep sockets but there have been quite a few times where There was a noticeable difference in breakaway using a 3' snappy bar from socket to socket....
Are they worth full retail absolutely not.
But are they better than craftsman .....hands down.....YES
Are they worth full retail absolutely not.
But are they better than craftsman .....hands down.....YES
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trackwelder
Well-known member
Your input is as valuable as the crud on the bottom of my boots. We were having a civil discussion except for your hostile and insulting comments. Crawl back into your hole.
Bellaireroad
Well-known member
It's kind of like driving a BMW and a Ford. They both get you to the store just fine. Some people are happy with the Ford, others would rather drive the BMW
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BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
two different markets:
Craftsman is built under various contracts, and targeted for the Homeowner and do-it-yourselfer at low, competitive prices.
SnapOn is for Professional Mechanics.
Questions to ask yourself:
Which tools will be most used that should be considered as the first purchase?
How much can I really afford to spend at this time?
SnapOn is good, but how about ProTo, SK, Wright and other tool Manufacturers?
Is My Craftsman stuff that I have old enough to be the "good old stuff"; rather than the later year "xxxx" ?
Me? there are some tools I will not buy for the asking price. There others I will not buy because I consider them to be substandard for MY NEEDS.. I have a mix of lower cost and premium grade tools. I recommend the better brands for what is used the most.
SnapOn flare nut wrenches and ratchets? No regrets on My part.. SnapOn makes great tools;and their name is well represented among My tools-sockets included. But so is ProTo, SK, and a host of other brands that I have enjoyed using for years.
There is no blanket; one size fits all answer to Your question.
Many thoughts, opinions, and experienced tool user advise have been brought out in
this thread.
I will close by recommending to not burden Yourself with a heavy debt for tools that are more wanted than needed.
Craftsman is built under various contracts, and targeted for the Homeowner and do-it-yourselfer at low, competitive prices.
SnapOn is for Professional Mechanics.
Questions to ask yourself:
Which tools will be most used that should be considered as the first purchase?
How much can I really afford to spend at this time?
SnapOn is good, but how about ProTo, SK, Wright and other tool Manufacturers?
Is My Craftsman stuff that I have old enough to be the "good old stuff"; rather than the later year "xxxx" ?
Me? there are some tools I will not buy for the asking price. There others I will not buy because I consider them to be substandard for MY NEEDS.. I have a mix of lower cost and premium grade tools. I recommend the better brands for what is used the most.
SnapOn flare nut wrenches and ratchets? No regrets on My part.. SnapOn makes great tools;and their name is well represented among My tools-sockets included. But so is ProTo, SK, and a host of other brands that I have enjoyed using for years.
There is no blanket; one size fits all answer to Your question.
Many thoughts, opinions, and experienced tool user advise have been brought out in
this thread.
I will close by recommending to not burden Yourself with a heavy debt for tools that are more wanted than needed.
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Young and broke. Buying Snap On as overpriced as it is is makes no financial sense. Got student discount? - buy popular items from Snap On and resell them with markup. Use the difference to stock up on reasonably priced tools. Focus on price/quality ratio. In sockets Taiwan delivers the best ratio today.
There are no tool trucks here and zero tool warranty. Neither is a problem or something to bother with. Don't pay for it.
There are no tool trucks here and zero tool warranty. Neither is a problem or something to bother with. Don't pay for it.
derosa
Well-known member
The issue with fun fact 2 is how easy it can be to reach the level of deformation, I had a cheap 6" extension on just my 10" 3/8 ratchet and not only did it twist but it developed a nice curve as well while the new craftsman extension had no problem. The craftsman didn't even noticeably wind up before breaking the nut loose. Now will a thicker, softer item like an extension be more prone to shear then a harder thinner item and how would that play out?Adam, you mix up hardness and stiffness - super hard tool steel lets say 53 HRC and softer steel at 35 HRC have nearly the same stiffness or Young modulus around 200 GPa.
Watch the "what is hardness" video on youtube and you will understand.
Hard steel will flex the same as soft steel under load, but the harder steel will withstand more flex without being permanently deformed.
Fun fact 1 - Your super hard thin walled Snap-On sockets will flex more under load than your thick walled soft HF sockets.
Fun fact 2 - A super hard Snap-On breaker bar will flex the same under load as a softer HF breaker bar if the dimensions are the same and the load is under the level of permanent deformation of the softer HF steel
Good question. The point is that hardness is proportional to strength, but not to stiffness - that is constant.
You could design a stronger soft extension by making it thicker thereby giving it a yield point (start to deform permanently) at the exact same torque as the harder thinner extension.
At that yield point the harder thinner extension will have twisted more than the softer thicker, but stiffer (by design), extension.
Regards
CooperS7777
Well-known member
Destructive testing has as little to do with a tools ability to perform a task as a crash test ratings do to a automobiles ability to perform on the race track.
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I do like the little recessed part on the deep sockets if you need to push a fastener it helps a lot. Thanks everyone I think I'm gonna get them just spread it out over a few months and get 1/4 and 3/8 metric and standard, deep and shallow.
If you are serious about automotive work, I think that's wise. Just a bug in your ear: for automotive I almost never use deep sockets. When I do, it's only like a short extension to me. But semi deeps I probably use more than shallow. Recommend starting with semi deeps, then shallows in 1/4" and 3/8". Only 1/2" chrome I have are 12pt metric shallows. I have deeps in 1/4 and 3/8 and you will too eventually. But that makes 7 snap On socket sets. I paid about $700. By skipping the deeps, you are probably looking at $500.
Before you leave the SEP, I would highly recommend Snap On's gold torx bit sockets, and a set of metric Allens. I would personally choose the "hi performance" double box wrenches over combos, but you will end up with both styles eventually.
Good luck
No.
I have a 3/8 SO ratchet, a few sets of sockets and Thorsen wrenches, from 40 years ago, 1/2 Cman socket set, from 20 years ago, Cman wrenches from 10 years ago and HF impact sockets and ratchet wrenches, from 2 years, ago.
They get get whatever I need done, when ever, with no problems. I could care less about the "feel" of the tool, if it got the job done. Now that Imports are of good quality makes a big difference.
Going "all Snap ON" looks good professionally and they are certainly are great quality tools, but they are not worth the extra money, IMO. I could use what I have to make a living on, just fine if necessary.
bmwpowere36m3
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2012
- Messages
- 1,125
That's ironic that as an engineer you don't grasp the basic concept of action/reaction forces.... torque DOES NOT change in a steady state condition, PERIOD. Go back to physics I. Or stop playing internet engineer, makes real ones look bad .
Energy or work is a different matter.
sberry
Banned
Had a friend change a clutch in a ranger, he is a top hand, said, was easier than if I had my own sitting right here. Not one word about I needed something with a better fit.
I have basically replaced most stuff of my own with new hardware, its not all stuck and seized despite long service if I simply sprayed it with penetrating spray when we put it together.
People make a mess with a lot of stuff but if you want it to come apart again spray it during assembly. Even WD40, while its debateable as useful lubricant it will keep something from sticking, displaces moisture.
Put a bolt on a truck frame, 1 dry and 1 been sprayed. Run them in brine, wear the exposed threads right the fuk off, one will be seized and one have pristine threads. I saw this on European trucks in the 80's even, good care with bolt lube and torque Lots of with a flanged nut and no lock washer.
I have basically replaced most stuff of my own with new hardware, its not all stuck and seized despite long service if I simply sprayed it with penetrating spray when we put it together.
People make a mess with a lot of stuff but if you want it to come apart again spray it during assembly. Even WD40, while its debateable as useful lubricant it will keep something from sticking, displaces moisture.
Put a bolt on a truck frame, 1 dry and 1 been sprayed. Run them in brine, wear the exposed threads right the fuk off, one will be seized and one have pristine threads. I saw this on European trucks in the 80's even, good care with bolt lube and torque Lots of with a flanged nut and no lock washer.
bmwpowere36m3
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2012
- Messages
- 1,125
Good question. The point is that hardness is proportional to strength, but not to stiffness - that is constant.
You could design a stronger soft extension by making it thicker thereby giving it a yield point (start to deform permanently) at the exact same torque as the harder thinner extension.
At that yield point the harder thinner extension will have twisted more than the softer thicker, but stiffer (by design), extension.
Regards
?
I hope you're not designing extensions... you definitely want to avoid plastic deformation. There is a difference between hardness, strength and toughness.
sberry
Banned
There is some point to this but we have more of a Ford Masaratti comparison, a Beemer cost 2 or 3 X a Ford and a Ford sedan today is a nice car.
The basic tool from Apex or WF which is re polished and stamped in a lot of stuff, same basic piece no matter what it sells for, Allen or Stanley with real QC and buying power can offer up a wrench set for a buck a piece is a no brainer if a guy wants to save money fixing stuff.
Even if he were to toss the old the disk is rather low as to 300$ for 10 piece sockets, even half off is a 150 decision to sit on it at best. If it motivates a guy well worth it but still need a tool to turn them.
The longer that I go with the old that meet an adequate threshold the greater the return.
We seen some tests, I had a 3 ft cheater on a 3/4 Sears wrench and do not care, I was just going to see how much it took but broke the bolts loose first.
Some of the best in tests were not or not much better, this is all where even that crazed Russian weightlifter guy cant bend it. Way above,,, tool me a 440 channelock in addition to a 9/16 Mit to bust it and after working at it broke it in 2, the box never did give it up.
DSLTRK
Well-known member
Man, the keyboard engineers on this thread...
I'm not a materials engineer, but I can ask you, who gives a damn if an extra 0.2 j of your energy is spent winding up a Craftsman extension with Craftsman socket? In the end, static torque will be the same.
Besides, I've used my $30 Snappy extensions, they do the same damn thing. I don't know why twist is chastised constantly on this thread, I actually prefer it for feathering torque applied.
I'm not a materials engineer, but I can ask you, who gives a damn if an extra 0.2 j of your energy is spent winding up a Craftsman extension with Craftsman socket? In the end, static torque will be the same.
Besides, I've used my $30 Snappy extensions, they do the same damn thing. I don't know why twist is chastised constantly on this thread, I actually prefer it for feathering torque applied.
sberry
Banned
Where I have damaged them is impact, using as a backup for bolt removal. But I have hit a lot of cheap wrenches with hammers, had a couple jaws give it up but they were impacted against hard.
sberry
Banned
Not only that but the fear of loss. Like Sears robbed you at a dollar since you decided you had to have a 30$ one. Just like you lost a lifes fortune on a cheap tool, the horror,,,,,,,,,,, if you broke it which is another astronomical assumption if a guy looks at the math and if its really a worry most 1 or 2$ wrenches today have a warranty.
Guy buys 20K in sockets from a truck and warranties a couple in tomorrows dollars at their cost and what a hero, Sears sells a wrench for 79 cents works well,,, well they robbing you cause HF has it for 69.. ha
sberry
Banned
As I said, 1 neighnor had some stuff where he said, most of the time I used Sears cause I bought it when I needed as needed and owned it and eventually bought a few nice sockets for 30 cents on the dollar when someone decided they couldn't afford them, bought about a dozen items off that truck in 30 yrs.
I got on it a couple times too, not for me. I had a bar bill and that would have eat in to that,,, ha. I actually bought a few pieces Ace hwd in a bind back in the day and it worked, not the razor knife though, it is not the same as the Stanley. I been on a kick to toss all those not exact or not a Stanley with a Stanley blade.
I got on it a couple times too, not for me. I had a bar bill and that would have eat in to that,,, ha. I actually bought a few pieces Ace hwd in a bind back in the day and it worked, not the razor knife though, it is not the same as the Stanley. I been on a kick to toss all those not exact or not a Stanley with a Stanley blade.