Third time's the charm - 40*50*12 build

[wisconsin hillrod]

I have been browsing Garage Journal for 6+ years and in that time have had three garage projects. I thought I would post them here to hopefully give people ideas, offer help, or answer questions in detail. This was my second project.

This project picks up about a year after I was done with my 20*44 garage build.

Unlike my first two projects this one is ongoing!

At this point I had a insulated / heated (80,000 BTU natural gas) 20*44 garage/shop. However with the addition of the MaxJax it was more of a 3 car garage which put one of my cars in permant storage. The unlucky one was my ’69 Olds and I kept debating selling it as it was a drivable project that I had lost motivation for a couple years prior.

I had also started dating my now wife while finishing up the garage. I asked her to move in with me when her lease was up on her apartment knowing that my days were numbered in the old house. It was only about 800 sq ft and since we both work from home it wasn’t going to work long term but more importantly the garage and driveway situation did not lend itself well to two people.

We spent the months before she moved in going to open houses and just getting a feel for what we might be interested in. As time grew closer we began working with a realtor and looking more seriously. We only ended up looking at maybe 10 houses as we had a very particular criteria which frankly we thought might take a year or two to find something that fit. Our ideal place would be built in the past 30 years, have good internet access, have natural gas, have municipal water/sewer, and either have a preexisting shop or have space to build on.

We eventually expanded our search area a little bit further out and immediately found something that seemed like a perfect fit. It was 3,000 sq ft, with a two car garage, , 20 years old, cable internet, natural gas, water/sewer, a 20*30 detached shop, and appeared to have room to add onto the shop. As a bonus it also had a pool and a hot tub two items that we wanted to have at some point.

After verifying with the county beyond a reasonable doubt that the garage could be added onto we made an offer on the house and after a bit of back and forth we had an accepted offer. In the meantime a friend was interested in my old house and we were able to make a deal without a realtor which left me with some change in my pocket to build my shop!

I started toying with ideas knowing that I needed 12’ ceilings as I wanted a “real” hoist this time around. The MaxJax wasn’t cutting it for me. The shop singles and siding were at the end of their useful life so it lent itself well to an addition.

-Hillrod

 

[captain14]

I have read your other two threads and enjoyed your activities.

I will stay turned for this adventure.

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

We moved in and I discovered very quickly just how “small” the 20*30 shop was.

My cat did not care for the move at all. I thought he had run out the door until I spotted him hiding.

My plan was to add a 20*30 addition directly to the side of the original 20*30 shop. I was open to ideas on how to tie the roof in to the two structures. What I really wanted was a clean slate open span either pole barn or stick build shop but I thought it would be wise to do the addition to save money.


I had spent about $20,000 on my previous garage addition but I knew this would be more expensive so in my head I had prepared myself to spend $25-30,000. I went through the process of trying to get some bids and had a hard time getting anything. I even had more than one contractor show up and take a look only to never get back to me. The two bids I did receive were for $45,000 and up. Yikes.


I had heard via hearsay in the neighborhood that the town no longer permits pole buildings. I thought that was odd…a pole building is a style of construction, not technically an aesthetic look or size. I called the county and the town and found out I was allowed to build pretty much anything I wanted to so long as setbacks were followed, lot coverage didn’t exceed 25% and the accessory structure’s footprint was not bigger than the house’s.


Armed with the good news I reached out to Wick, Cleary, and an independent guy for bids. Based on what I saw here I didn’t even bother contacting Morton due to cost concerns. My initial contact with Wick was fantastic, Cleary was lacking in communication, and the independent bid came out to far more than either.

-Hillrod

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

I have read your other two threads and enjoyed your activities.

I will stay turned for this adventure.

Thank you sir!

 

[Dave_Car_Guy]

I called the county and the town and found out I was allowed to build pretty much anything I wanted to so long as setbacks were followed, lot coverage didn’t exceed 25% and the accessory structure’s footprint was not bigger than the house’s.

Interesting set of limitations... so with a 24,000 sf lot, your max coverage is 6000, less the 2574 sf for the existing house, so you would have max new building of 3426 sf, but that isn't allowed to be greater than the 2574 house. I'm curious whether that had caused you to consider growing the house to 3000 sf, such that you could then grow the new garage to 3000 sf while still remaining inside the required setbacks? Also, had you considered somehow attaching the new structure (some sort of enclosed hallway, maybe) such that it would not be limited and considered as a separate structure?

Can't wait to see how this one goes for you!

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

Ultimately the Wick and Cleary bids were very close. I went with Cleary as Wick was not able to fit my project until the next spring.

My plan was for the following:
*200+ yards of fill
*40*50*14 with scissors trusses (minimum to have a clear height of 12’ for my hoist).
*Three commercial insulated garage doors: 18*10, 10*10, and 7*7.
* 9’ pole/truss spacing (10’ on ends)
* wainscot
* Prepped for Energy Miser package (to be finished myself)
*36” overhang
* 6” slab over 2” foam over 6mm moisture barrier
*8’ 4” thick concrete aprons.


Cleary was awesome to work with. They acted as a general contractor while letting me pay everybody myself to avoid markup.

Cost worked out as follows (approximately):
Building itself $28k
Foam $2k
Concrete $10k
Garage doors $5k
Excavating: $5k
Total: $50k

This was certainly a far cry from my original budget for an addition, but it was what I ultimately wanted and would yield me nearly twice as much space. This would also require me tearing down the existing shop. I decided I would take it down myself to save money and to save as much wood as I could.


And so it begins:

I began by digging to verify the electrical location as I planned to reuse it.

Next I took the old garage door down. Like electrical, garage door springs really aren’t that scary if you understand how they work. It was 16*8 not insulated so I gave it to a friend who had a use for it in trade for helping take the garage down. I didn’t even buy winding bars, just cut a piece of steel rod in half.

Ripped off the siding.

Bought a roofing shovel and went to town on the shingles.

Verified my plan to pop the plywood/OSB off with a sledge hammer would work.

After cutting off the front of the garage and dropping it like a tree we came up with a plan to cut the 1*6 at the peak and then tie a rope to each truss and pull it down so it was inverted 180 degrees from where it was. Doing that two people could just pick up each truss from the ground and walk it out into the yard.

A few trips to the dump and all was well.

-Hillrod

 

[madoc1]

well that was fun. looks nice and clean. what about the slab? goimg to build new new shop around it? will follow for sure.
ps. did you consider selling the old trusses, etc on cl?

jim

 

[captain14]

How much time for the tear down of the old garage?

 

[48flatbed]

Looks like a great start for the third one!

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

Interesting set of limitations... so with a 24,000 sf lot, your max coverage is 6000, less the 2574 sf for the existing house, so you would have max new building of 3426 sf, but that isn't allowed to be greater than the 2574 house. I'm curious whether that had caused you to consider growing the house to 3000 sf, such that you could then grow the new garage to 3000 sf while still remaining inside the required setbacks? Also, had you considered somehow attaching the new structure (some sort of enclosed hallway, maybe) such that it would not be limited and considered as a separate structure?

Can't wait to see how this one goes for you!

As it turned out I was permitted to build exactly what I wanted to...just barely! I had originally wanted the shop to move 20 ft away from the house instead of 20 ft towards it, but it had to be 63' from the side road centerline.

Interestingly, with enough lot, you are allowed to have more sq ft in accessory buildings than the house so long as no individual accessory buildings have a larger footprint than the house.

I was interested to find out if I could somehow make it attached to cheat the rules, but ended up not needing to.

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

well that was fun. looks nice and clean. what about the slab? goimg to build new new shop around it? will follow for sure.
ps. did you consider selling the old trusses, etc on cl?

jim

Thanks! As the slab was flat with no curb for the walls I initlaly thought I would be able to use it as part of my new shop and save some money. However, due to the slope of the yard I was in need of over 200 yards of fill to ensure the shop didn't flood. This placed the old slab about a foot under my new to be floor! This initially led me to believe that I coudld bury the old slab under the fill and new concrete. At the last minute I was advised against this as frost heave could come back to bite me.

A neighbor was talking about building a garage and I initlaly offered him the lumber in trade for his help taking it down but he declined. I decided that I would save anything I could for later interior framing.

How much time for the tear down of the old garage?

It took about a week. I worked a couple hours per night after work, then did the big haul over a 4 day weekend. My parents, wife, and a couple friends helped.

Looks like a great start for the third one!

Thanks! I sure hope this is the last one!

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

I took a good last look at my lawn as it would never look the same.

After a brutal 4 day weekend getting prepped for the excavators I waited. And waited. And waited some more. I nervously watched the days tick away wondering how the excavators were going to have the site prepped in time for Cleary’s anticipated start date. FINALLY the day before Cleary was to start everything happened at once.

We setup our cat camera to be able to watch the progress. (Cat’s name is not Taco, we just really like Tacos...)

It blew my mind how easily a mini excavator can tear apart a slab that held up a building for almost two decades.

As I said, everything happened at once. Left frame more excavation equipment arriving, right frame the building ready to be dropped off.

The Cleary delivery truck is pretty slick:

[url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/228/30717430624_a154fb3bac_z.jpg[/url][IMG]

[IMG] https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/727/31186432160_334b6466b5_z.jpg

I stood there for a long time looking at those 40’ trusses. I couldn’t help but think that they were only 4’ narrower than my lot was wide at my last house!

Meanwhile the excavators were just getting started.

They unfortunately had to take out my second favorite tree (maple)in the whole yard :

They scraped off the topsoil and made a berm with it:

Then it was solid dump trucks of fill for the rest of the day:

Finally it was done…and it was a lot of fill!

-Hillrod

 

[matta5]

Looks great!, I had to do 28 inches of fill, I thought the trucks would never stop coming, how deep is it?

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

Looks great!, I had to do 28 inches of fill, I thought the trucks would never stop coming, how deep is it?

Thanks! To tell you the truth I never measured it...but I required a lot more topsoil to make a ramp I could drive up for my mower!

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

Cleary got delayed a bit as the county required me to have a foundation survey done as I was to be within inches of setbacks.

Soon as we had the go ahead Cleary showed up and wasted no time!

I admired Fort Hillrod for the weekend.

Monday, back to work.

By the end of the day Monday:

Moving right along:

And by the end of the week:

-Hillrod

 

[ajohno]

Looks great Hillrod.

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

It was my turn to work over the weekend. I had to get my electric panel in before the concrete came. I dug a trench and connected to the old feed. It had 8 gauge THHN wire and I had intended to pull that out and run 4 gauge THHN to upgrade from 40amp to 80amp but that proved to be impossible. Too many bends in the old conduit the wires weren’t going anywhere. I ended up having to reuse the 8 gauge wire. I plan to run a new feed from the house when I ran my natural gas later on.

Pounding in the ground rods was remarkably easier than it was at my last house.

I threw in a temporary outlet for the concrete guys to use and to test everything. In hindsight, I wish I had run another conduit that I could use to fish stuff through in the future. Oh well.

Ready for concrete!

-Hillrod

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

I woke up earlier than normal due to noise outside. It seemed I had already slept through quite a bit because the vapor barrier was down, along with 2” foam, and half of the concrete was already in place.

Up until this point I had gotten lucky with weather and against all odds the yard really wasn’t torn up at all. It was so slippery this day that the concrete guys were having to throw sand down for traction so the trucks could back out.

Aftermath. Fortunately they drove in almost the exact spot the driveway was going.

This view was so awesome to see.

Razor straight saw cuts. Very very pleased with this concrete over my old garage.

Man door for scale.

-Hillrod

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

Next came some garage doors which I haphazardly ran a serious of extension cords through the trusses for power until I was able to run my electrical. It was pretty much a ballet up on top of the ladder so I decided I was going to need to invest in a scaffold for the remainder of the work.

Up until this point I hadn’t needed any sort of variance but I had overlooked what I thought was a small detail. A driveway! It turns out you need a in my area you need a variance to add a second driveway due to poorly written/interpreted rules. My lot with well over 300 feet of street frontage stretched across two sides was treated the same as one with only 40’ of street frontage. It took two town board meetings and the support of the clerk and building inspector to win the board over. Whew, crisis averted.



The skilled excavator blends into his environment:

Topsoil and gravel driveway in:

They grow up so fast!!!

-Hillrod

 

[Jay_mc1]

Your building is looking really good, what are your plans for the inside?

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

Your building is looking really good, what are your plans for the inside?

Thanks! Interior details coming right up.

 

[dwysywd]

wow. great build. subscribed. looking forward to the interior build out.


Sent from my facsimile machine

 

[zmotorsports]

Looking very nice. Great layout on the property.

Mike.

 

[hoho98925]

Very nice buiding!

 

[sleek98]

Looks really good

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

wow. great build. subscribed. looking forward to the interior build out.


Sent from my facsimile machine

Looking very nice. Great layout on the property.

Mike.

Very nice buiding!

Looks really good

Thanks for the kind words!


From this point on, no more contractors, all me (and my unlucky friends/family)!

We dragged all the **** back from the house garage that I was using as a storage locker.

And then brought the bigger stuff home that I had stashed at my Uncle’s farm.

In my last post you may have noticed the 7*7 overhead door on the side. My intention is to have that door face the backyard and frame out a “inception shed” inside the shop. The inception shed is intended to be the storage area inside and above for the shop for tools and parts. It is framed out of reclaimed lumber from the old garage except for the sill which I bought treated lumber for.

Acquired a scaffold:

Reused the 8-3 NM wire that I replaced at my old house to feed a sub panel in the inception shed.

The subpanel (hidden but to the left of the air compressor) was reclaimed from the old garage. Thought I may as well do a sub panel since I need to run power to the air compressor anyway and had the stuff sitting around. It will give me flexibility later on when the rest of the shop has finished walls.

Temporary point-to-point wireless bridge to the house for my shop computer , phone and wifi for shop. I will be running cat5 from the house at a later date.

We have (temporary until I finish the ceiling) lights in the shop! I am very interested to hear input on what kind of lighting to use once I hang the tin on the ceiling.

-Hillrod

 

[Shaggy1970]

How's the budget?

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

How's the budget?

It depends how you define it. The shell with excavating, concrete, garage doors, and gravel driveway was about $50,000. I'll be the first to admit it could have been done cheaper than that but that was the best bid I got to have it done how I wanted it done in the time frame I wanted it done in. I needed to have the building up with concrete and garage doors by winter.

I've kinda just been going as I have money since then and haven't really kept track. I'm guessing I'll be under $75k all in with heat, a two post, a 4 post hoist, and a paved driveway.

I thought long and hard about the fact that I could have kept the old garage, downsized my fleet a bit, and picked up a brand new Corvette instead of building the shop but I ultimately decided I'd be much happier with a shop especially 10-20 years down the line.

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

My 30th birthday! I bought myself a present...


My wife made me this delightful card with our pets on it:

While my wife was cooking and cleaning all day for my party that evening, I took off to the big city to pick up my present.

I was able to pick up the heavy end by putting some ratchet straps through the lift carriage and on the engine crane. The other end was light enough for me to lift.

Honestly, I don’t know why so many people hire this to be done professionally. Me and two friends stood the columns up, bolted the cross bar in place, centered it on a saw cut for ease of centering cars later on, checked them for plumb and put some bolts into the floor.

BAM!

Question:

The problem I ran into is the garage door opener was in the way of cars on the lift. I ended up taking it down and have been operating the door manually. Question I have…given that when you manually operate a garage door the handle is off to one side yet every opener I’ve ever seen is mounted near the middle. Instead of buying a jackshaft opener could I possibly mount the overhead opener track to the side of the door or would that create problems?

Thanks!

-Hillrod

 

[dwysywd]

to answer your question about the door, the short answer is yes. it may bind the door or it may cause uneven lifting which would put undue stress on the opener. either way, don't waste your money. buy the correct jack shaft opener. it will save you a ton of grief.

as for the lights, check out my quanset hut build. i just put a bunch of led lights in. 21 in all. i have a source that gets them for about $12 shipped anywhere in the country. you can run up to 5 in series. i have all mine on 2 switches and 3-5 per plug. it's really nice. easy to install and required nothing more than installing a few plug ends on the lights. they can be wire-nutted as well. whatever is easiest for you. shoot me a pm for his name if you like what you see.


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[upndown]

Great looking homestead! I just love the looks of a metal building! You should have many good years with that set up.

As far as your opener goes, with torsion springs the opener can be mounted anywhere. If you can mount it to the style on either side that would be great. If not you can add another style, either get one from your door supplier or make your own out of angle. While you have your tools out I would address your Back hang issue. That angle is far to great! Plus it just don't look right, easy fix.

With the door closed, unbolt your back hang. Square up the angle, drill and bolt thru the horizontal track, cut off the excess angle..done deal. Also just as a precaution, put a bolt thru at the end of the tracks.

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

to answer your question about the door, the short answer is yes. it may bind the door or it may cause uneven lifting which would put undue stress on the opener. either way, don't waste your money. buy the correct jack shaft opener. it will save you a ton of grief.

as for the lights, check out my quanset hut build. i just put a bunch of led lights in. 21 in all. i have a source that gets them for about $12 shipped anywhere in the country. you can run up to 5 in series. i have all mine on 2 switches and 3-5 per plug. it's really nice. easy to install and required nothing more than installing a few plug ends on the lights. they can be wire-nutted as well. whatever is easiest for you. shoot me a pm for his name if you like what you see.


Sent from my facsimile machine

The issue is I already have the opener and would prefer to use it instead of having to buy a jackshaft. Are the lights you used the bulbs themselves? I think I'd need a little more substantial fixture to secure to the tin ceiling I will be putting in.

Great looking homestead! I just love the looks of a metal building! You should have many good years with that set up.

As far as your opener goes, with torsion springs the opener can be mounted anywhere. If you can mount it to the style on either side that would be great. If not you can add another style, either get one from your door supplier or make your own out of angle. While you have your tools out I would address your Back hang issue. That angle is far to great! Plus it just don't look right, easy fix.

With the door closed, unbolt your back hang. Square up the angle, drill and bolt thru the horizontal track, cut off the excess angle..done deal. Also just as a precaution, put a bolt thru at the end of the tracks.

Thanks!

You mean I can attach the trolley way off to the side of the door? (by way of the draw bar). My thought was the torsion springs would do almost all the lifting and thus prevent the door from being pulled a bit sideways and binding. That would place the opener and trolley off to the side of the hoist.

For reference:

How it was mounted

Here is where I am debating mounting it

Failing that is this enough for a jackshaft opener?

When I do the ceiling I will be redoing the back hanging anyway but what picture are you looking at where you think it looks wrong?

 

[1953mercury]

That will be plenty for a jack shaft style. If you go that way you won't regret it. Mike

 

[vtwinjunkie]

hahahahaha taco camera?

 

[dwysywd]

double checked with my buddy who installs openers. he said if you mount to the edge you will run the risk of binding the door. you could also damage a panel. but that's just what he said.


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[upndown]

Sorry hillrod, I spotted the angle on post #26...2nd and last pic. I was on my phone when I spotted it. I just zoomed in and saw there is a straight angle dropping down from the beam, the angled piece appears to be a back up or kicker. My Bad!

Out of the thousands of openers I've hung, I've never had to mount an opener like you have indicated. As long as your springs are balanced and the door is rolling freely, you shouldn't have any problems. Same as a side mount opener.

And yes you have plenty of shaft for a side mount.

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

hahahahaha taco camera?

What can I say? We love tacos haha.

That will be plenty for a jack shaft style. If you go that way you won't regret it. Mike

double checked with my buddy who installs openers. he said if you mount to the edge you will run the risk of binding the door. you could also damage a panel. but that's just what he said.


Sent from my facsimile machine

Sorry hillrod, I spotted the angle on post #26...2nd and last pic. I was on my phone when I spotted it. I just zoomed in and saw there is a straight angle dropping down from the beam, the angled piece appears to be a back up or kicker. My Bad!

Out of the thousands of openers I've hung, I've never had to mount an opener like you have indicated. As long as your springs are balanced and the door is rolling freely, you shouldn't have any problems. Same as a side mount opener.

And yes you have plenty of shaft for a side mount.

Thanks for the input. I think you guys sold me on a jackshaft opener. It is what I wanted in the first place and what's a few hundred bucks in the grand scheme of things?

I'm curious...how do you go about picking out the right opener? Is it totally based on door height and speed? In my head it doesn't matter how much the door weighs because the torsion springs should be doing almost all of the work anyway. When the doors were installed the 10*10 door got a residential style opener and the 18*10 door got a commercial one. Any idea why that would have been?

Can you point in in the right direction of a good jackshaft opener for my 10*10 door? Maybe the 18*10 door too so I'd have less stuff to hang from the ceiling later.

Thanks!

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

As weather (temperature) permitted I worked on getting bat insulation up in the walls. The thought of the irony of freezing my **** off while trying to install insulation was constant and sharp haha.

I had a week of vacation I had to use by the end of March so I spent it working on the shop.

Built some shelves in the inception shed:

Then a bunch of yard work:

Picked what felt like an endless number of rocks out of the top soil.

I put pavers around the whole exterior to keep moisture from the mulch away from the building and some steps to the side door.

10 yards of mulch around the building (most behind it).

Ran new power feed to pool pump

Put in a black chain link fence in the backyard with a 6’ wooden privacy fence with a hidden gate between the house and shop.

-Hillrod

 

[dwysywd]

wow. you got a lot done in one post! lol need to space them out a little better. hahahaha need to keep us coming back!


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[wisconsin hillrod]

wow. you got a lot done in one post! lol need to space them out a little better. hahahaha need to keep us coming back!


Sent from my facsimile machine

Haha just trying to get caught up to real time as time permits me to write them up.

I decided in March that a gravel driveway was not going to work for me. I started calling around and was all but ready to sign a contract with a place but one of the examples they gave me to look at had a crooked line that bothered me a lot and they refused to agree in writing that my driveway wouldn’t look like that. I ended up going with the place that did my neighbor’s 20 years ago as it still looked good.

They said the asphalt plants don’t start until early May and they had some projects ahead of me so it would be done in early June. I put 50% down in early April. June came and went in spite of me calling once a week to inquire the status and FINALLY July 19th they showed up!

But it turned out GREAT. For scale the wooden fence is 6’ tall and 10.5’ wide.

-Hillrod