Stanley Black & Decker buys Craftsman

[bczygan]

Re: Craftsman brand sold

Yawn...

 

[whiteboy1]

California Hank's comment are relatively valid. The trend in your generation is that they would rather work on a computer than on a car. Not to say there are no people like yourself. Of course that is not true. But the trend is going in that direction. If you were to survey men in the 18 to 30 year old demographic and ask them how many have changed a car tire you will get an answer than is much lower than if you gave the survey 20 years ago. They would rather call AAA.

It is a foregone conclusion that we will see more electric cars and tools growing. In the next 10 years we will see more electric lawn mowers, chain saws, weed wackers and yes, cars.

So his point is good but to take it as no one in your age group works on cars is ridiculous.

I agree that more millenials are working tech jobs that Gen X or Gen Y's were, because the industry is offering those jobs. Now, in rural areas where I'm from tech jobs aren't there, we work blue collar jobs like our fathers and grandfathers did.
Maybe I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions and called some people narrow minded and such, but I feel as if the whole generation is being labeled as the problem with America instead of the solution.
Personally I take pride in being able to fix things with my hands, and the knowledge God gave me. And yes it pains me too to see alot of people my age throw things away, or pay someone to fix something they could very well do themselves.
Again I'm sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes or offended them in any way. That's not why I'm here. I just hate being stereotyped as an average millenial without being able to voice my own opinions

 

[nbpt100]

The economy and culture has shifted and Millenials preferences and attitudes are a product of those shifts. We are conditioned from our environment. I am not saying they are lazy or bad people for not wanting to change a tire. It is how they are conditioned. They see the better jobs elsewhere and they move to the cities where those jobs reside. Us older folks are so use to fixing stuff we fix stuff from how we grew up. We probably fix some stuff we should not. At least from an economic point of view. I am all for keeping stuff out of the land fill as long as reasonably possible.
All good points made above on why there will be less need to fix or maintain stuff and therefore a lower demand on future tool sales. Also just look on Craig's list and ebay at all of the decent used tools for sale.
This must put pressure on all of the tool manufacturers. CM and others must be looking to China and other developing countries for future sales growth. I bet Snap On is too expensive for these countries so cheaper and mid grade brands have a big edge.

 

[nickjj]

The economy and culture has shifted and Millenials preferences and attitudes are a product of those shifts. We are conditioned from our environment. I am not saying they are lazy or bad people for not wanting to change a tire. It is how they are conditioned. They see the better jobs elsewhere and they move to the cities where those jobs reside. Us older folks are so use to fixing stuff we fix stuff from how we grew up. We probably fix some stuff we should not.

Apparently home improvement stores/tool stores here have given up because:

Half the population lives in expensive rented accommodation, thanks to our property bubble, no need for paint or ladders, no workshop.

Even everyday cars are way to complicated to be repaired/serviced at home

Electric goods (almost all from China) are cheap and just get thrown away when they break

 

[californiaHank]

Agreed. Calhawk's statement is somewhat valid and my take is that the current generation of "mellenials" is at a point in the world when cars/appliances/equipment are more reliable and less user serviceable. So they don't NEED to work on things as much as past generations. My 2014 SUV has never been in the shop in 3 years of ownership, save for software updates. I do my own oil changes and rotations. The number of tools and level of knowledge required is far less than needed just 10 years ago...

My vehicle doesn't need any service until 100k miles. Lifetime drivetrain lubricants & non serviceable suspension components. So what are we looking at in reality as far as the need to work on it? Oil filter changes & brake pads/rotors. Maybe a battery in 5 years?

So unless "millenials" are buying 10-20 year old vehicles as daily drivers, what if any skills/tools will they need?

I didn't mean to offend anyone. I've got nothing but respect for anyone who has the gumption to get his hands dirty on any kind of repair. But, there are many things that make it increasingly hard to do DIY work on cars - increasing complexity, proprietary software, environmental regs, etc. etc. I'm not saying that here is something wrong with millennials, just that things are changing in a way that make it less practical for a lot of DIY'ers to do auto work. The result is that fewer and fewer people spend their Saturdays 'under the hood'.

 

[tvtaurus]

If Stanley keeps up the quality on craftsman products this could be a good thing. Craftsman products may be available a lot more places making accessibility and warranty much easier. I would like to see them market craftsman as a professional line of tools like they do PROTO, but I don't believe that is going to be the case.

 

[Schurkey]

Electric goods (almost all from China) are cheap and just get thrown away when they break

And the companies marketing disposable high-failure junk will make a big point about how "green" they are because they put their manufacturing scrap in a recycle bin instead of the incinerator or landfill.

 

[blarf]

California Hank's comment are relatively valid. The trend in your generation is that they would rather work on a computer than on a car.

... because that's where the jobs are. Up through the seventies there was indeed a solid middle class population. Manufacturing jobs were plentiful, so of course you're going to be familiar with mechanical tools and whatnot. Baby boomers did a great job of outsourcing everything and gutting funding for schools so that things like vocational training get axed.

California is a great example. Conservatives got some laws enacted that put strict limits on property taxes (Prop 13) and all of a sudden municipalities had to start looking elsewhere for money. Cities no longer want factories, they want (and fight tooth and nail for) big box stores for the sales tax revenue. You can look at Target as an example. There's one in Daly City by I-280, and one quite literally right across the freeway in the next town over (Colma) about 3/4 mile away.

There are no more manufacturing jobs because they're mostly seen as environmental disasters waiting to happen that bring zero revenue. Tesla is something of an anomaly, but take a look at the bath that Nevada took on Faraday. Most places simply don't want even light industrial jobs. In many urban areas, being good with your hands won't get you a job anymore, but being good with computers will.

Let's not forget that there's also the trend of simply driving less.

It is a foregone conclusion that we will see more electric cars and tools growing. In the next 10 years we will see more electric lawn mowers, chain saws, weed wackers and yes, cars.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? Electric tools are, by and large, just as repairable as ICE tools.

Half the population lives in expensive rented accommodation, thanks to our property bubble, no need for paint or ladders, no workshop.

Err, if the mortgage crisis / bubble showed anything it's that people want to own their own homes. Even people who can't afford to. But, again, baby boomers set us down this path of "I've got mine, who cares about yours?" by yanking the rug out from future generations. People rent because owning is no longer an attainable goal in many areas.

Even everyday cars are way to complicated to be repaired/serviced at home

I remember like twenty years ago when Saab owners were complaining that the new 9000 was way too complex to service at home. Turns out people eventually figured them out pretty well, and they're still around in DIY circles. New cars are, in some ways, more complex but ultimately they're still very repairable even if they take different/additional skill sets. You no longer need to fiddle with jets and points and setting the the timing. But you will need to be able to validate a variety of sensor input and diagnose electrical problems. You can definitely still do this at home if you wanted to, but there are a few things stopping this:

1.) Less free time. Compared to when boomers were living off the dole (hello GI bill, minimal tuition, defined benefit pensions, etc.) millennials have to work significantly harder to even come close to a middle class lifestyle.

2.) Less driving. Boomers brought with them white flight into the suburbs. Millennials are moving back into the cities where driving is quite a bit less important. Case in point: my neighbor. Him and his wife are total car geeks (and have an impressive collection). His kids? They take the bus everywhere. They don't need an app to replace AAA, they simply don't even need AAA anymore.

 

[nbpt100]

Blarf, You said some funny things. I will only address one.

...

What on earth does that have to do with anything? Electric tools are, by and large, just as repairable as ICE tools.

Most people on TGJ get this but for those who have never worked on a 4 or 2 cycle lawnmower or out door power equipment, this explanation is for you.

Four and Two cycle engines require a lot more maintenance than their electric counterparts. There are a lot more moving parts and more to go wrong.

Just some simple examples include:
Spark plug changes
Oil changes
Air filter changes
Carburetor cleanings and rebuilds
Fuel filter or fuel line changes
Starter Recoil replacement

This is just a few maintenance or repair items that electric versions don't require.

I wont even go into valve jobs or any internal engine work.

Electrics may have a battery that goes bad or a switch that wears out.
Sure you can replace the switch or buy a new battery(no tool required). Maybe you will need a screwdriver to replace the switch. Depending on the age, If the batteries go bad it may be cheaper to buy a new tool than to buy two new batteries. The brushes on the motors may wear out but I have rarely ever seen that. They tend to last for the life of the machine.

You need a much wider variety of tools to work on and maintain the ICE and you will use them a lot more often than on any electric version of the same machine/tool.

The only common maintenance on a lawn mower would be sharpening the blade and cleaning. From what I have seen ICE beat up blades much more because they are more powerful. OK...... Maybe a wheel may fall off.

You will be going to your tool box dramatically less often with electric power tools vs. ICE. Quite possibly never. Also the range of tools required will be much fewer. That is what it has to do with buying and using more tools.

I hope this helps you understand things better.
Peace

 

[454ragtop]

Yawn, am I the only one wondering why this is a sticky? Surprised it didn't happen sooner, Sears has been circling the drain for a while now.

 

[blarf]

The only common maintenance on a lawn mower would be sharpening the blade and cleaning. From what I have seen ICE beat up blades much more because they are more powerful. OK...... Maybe a wheel may fall off.

You will be going to your tool box dramatically less often with electric power tools vs. ICE. Quite possibly never. Also the range of tools required will be much fewer. That is what it has to do with buying and using more tools.

You're absolutely correct that the electrical stuff is more reliable (excepting batteries, depending on the chemistry). That doesn't make them more difficult to repair, however. Hell, I can find bearings, VRs, and brushes for the water cooled alternator in my Bavarian beast. They're **** quality (made of the finest Chinesium), but they're still things you can replace (and if there were sufficient demand I'm sure you could source higher quality components. They're things that you will eventually need to do... just because something is inherently more reliable doesn't mean it's going to be treated as disposable.

 

[jeeper46]

Wow, someone here really has some issues with their parents!

Anyway, I walked into the Sears at a local mall today to have a look around-what a sad, depressing sight-all the tools carelessly stacked, not a customer in sight. I had read all these threads, and I knew production had moved to China, but I was shocked to see how much was China. I picked up a set of US (stinky) screwdrivers, some US-made punches, and a pack of 3 different US-made pliers. I grabbed a couple of plastic racks to hold my wrenches , too. Really, what that CEO did to this company ought to be the basis of a criminal investigation.

 

[Yankee]

I think Craftsman has been doomed for awhile. Everyone expects USA made, but not willing to pay the premium for it to be Made in USA... they had no where to go. If they stayed USA, people would complain they are too expensive, so they moved it off shore and kept prices the same, and they get hammered for Chinese junk..

The Craftsman Industrial line of full polished wrenches were worth every penny even at full price, but didn't sell until it was 50% off...

I for for one would like to see them make a comeback, but I doubt it would happen...

 

[EOC_Jason]

As others said, it's just a change of the times... Nobody really goes to Sears anymore... Heck, not as many older people go to the malls... Guys go to the big box stores for their weekend projects... See tools there... buy tools along with other supplies... Simple marketing to grab the masses... Price things cheap enough that they can reason to buy said tools even if they only use them once or twice...

Heck, my neighbor bought a Kobalt table saw at full price... I think he's ripped maybe two boards since buying it 4-6 months ago? That's their target audience! lol...

 

[MOTORHEAD383]

my father and other folks older than me said back in the day black and decker was a quality brand.

i hope for the best for craftsman, i liked their stuff in the past and i think they deserve a place in the market.

 

[cleason]

black and decker industrial tool back, in the day were good, home owner stuff ****.doesn't stanley still own mac?

 

[Sco Deac]

doesn't stanley still own mac?

Yes. Stanley Black & Decker's brands in their tools and storage division are:
-Stanley
-Proto
-Powers Fastening Innovations
-Porter Cable
-Vidmar
-Cribmaster
-DeWalt
-Bostitch
-Black & Decker
-Lista
-Mac
-Facom
-AeroScout

They recently purchased Newell Brands Tool divisions. That deal has not closed yet, but when it does, the following brands will be added:
-Irwin
-Lenox
-Hilmor

 

[nbpt100]

black and decker industrial tool back, in the day were good, home owner stuff ****.doesn't stanley still own mac?

You are correct. Mac, Proto, Jensen, Dewalt, Bostich, Porter Cable, Heli-Coil to name a few of their well know brands. They are also in to building security, inventory management, fasteners, Oil and Gas equipment and other industries.
They are a diverse industrial corporation.

If you have interest in knowing their full portfolio of businesses take a look at their corporate Brouchure.
http://ir.stanleyblackanddecker.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=114416&p=irol-irhome

 

[jeeper46]

I think, like most people, if I'm going to pay a higher price for a tool with the "Craftsman" name on it, that tool better say "Made in USA" on it,too. I'm not going to pay a premium for Chinese-made tools-I'll just go buy them at HF. The Craftsman name is doomed if it is just another name slapped on Chinese tools.

 

[trainer]

Maybe they bought the craftsman brand just to keep it out of a competetor's hands.
They could easily shelve the name completely or sell it off line by line with restrictions on how it would compete with their existing lines.

 

[6PTsocket]

I think, like most people, if I'm going to pay a higher price for a tool with the "Craftsman" name on it, that tool better say "Made in USA" on it,too. I'm not going to pay a premium for Chinese-made tools-I'll just go buy them at HF. The Craftsman name is doomed if it is just another name slapped on Chinese tools.

I think that has already happened. The name was slapped in Cheap Chinese tools and Sears is most certainly doomed. Why does anybody care? Sears has been on the road to destruction for many years. The fact that they made some decent tools many years ago or you shopped there with your father is all well and good but far higher quality tool companies have come and gone. Craftsman is highly unlikely to be elevated to a quality level higher than it ever held, by it's new owner. The market is loaded with tools at every quality level. Stanley already owns some of them Stanly brand tools are at their low end.The only thing I can see in this is allowing Sears to get some badly needed cash and get a slightly better quality of tool on their shelves without having to worry about getting them made.

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[Parabellum]

What happens to anything Craftsman non-tool (hand and power)
like lawn equipment, snowblowers, riding mowers? Will they be discontinued?

 

[Moparman390]

There's lots of rampant speculation that's all over the map here. There's also lots of questions that have fairly good answers to already. I once again suggest everyone read this:

http://swkcraftsman.transactionanno...chase-Craftsman-Brand-from-Sears-Holdings.pdf

It's Stanley Black and Decker's investor presentation on the Craftsman acquisition. While it doesn't answer all questions, and isn't set in concrete, it does give a general, but somewhat detailed, plan for what Stanley Black and Decker has in mind for Craftsman. It's a powerpoint thing and it's not very long, but it's informative, take a look everybody. You can make some good educated guesses as to what they plan to do based on this.

 

[Schurkey]

What happens to anything Craftsman non-tool (hand and power)
like lawn equipment, snowblowers, riding mowers? Will they be discontinued?

Sears still owns the rights to continue driving Craftsman into the ground in the Sears stores, for free, for the next fifteen years.

My expectation is that the lawn equipment, snowblowers, riding mowers and anything else "Lawn and Garden" with the Craftsman name sold in Sears stores will continue to be garbage, just like it is now until there are no more Sears stores to sell it.

 

[6PTsocket]

The second statement caught my eye. "Sears will continue developing sourcing and selling Craftsman in all their retail outlets. That seems to negate most of this discussion that assumed Stanley product would replace Sears sourced Craftsman on Sears shelves. However, the cautionary statement suggests they stand by nothing in the following statements about where they are going. It is just a best guess. I get from this that Stanley will do what they want with the Craftsman name outside of Sears stores.

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[southalabama]

The "sourcing" statement is indeed curious. That could be interesting. Different manufacturers. Sears continuing to sell Chinese sourced tools while Stanley selling a domestically produced tools. At this point it's all speculation but makes for good conversation based on the number of pages.

I'm hoping for US produced tools similar to the old professional line.

 

[pajibson]

Didnt read all the thread but did anybody cover that stanley also owns Mac tools? So they do produce more than bottom end & middle quality stuff

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[EOC_Jason]

It might have been a little precautionary to prevent Sears from taking the money from stanley and starting up their own manufacturing *snicker*... But seriously Sears doesn't produce anything currently, it's all sourced from other companies (domestic & abroad) so the wording was just leagalese to keep things status-quo. They used the word "produce" for Stanley since they DO own their own factories for making various things and could come up with new products independent of Sears.

There is no way they will produce USA hand tools with the same part number as current Chinese made ones. It would be chaos at the stores as everyone would want to exchange their tools. Anything USA made will be a totally new product, or they will create a new line (or use the existing Professional & Industrial lines). Even if they make chinese stuff they might create a new line just so people don't try returning / exchanging Stanley made Craftsman at Sears stores...

 

[Schurkey]

Didnt read all the thread but did anybody cover that stanley also owns Mac tools? So they do produce more than bottom end & middle quality stuff

Only about twenty times. Thanks for the reinforcement.

 

[1982fxr]

There's lots of rampant speculation that's all over the map here. There's also lots of questions that have fairly good answers to already. I once again suggest everyone read this:

http://swkcraftsman.transactionanno...chase-Craftsman-Brand-from-Sears-Holdings.pdf

It's Stanley Black and Decker's investor presentation on the Craftsman acquisition. While it doesn't answer all questions, and isn't set in concrete, it does give a general, but somewhat detailed, plan for what Stanley Black and Decker has in mind for Craftsman. It's a powerpoint thing and it's not very long, but it's informative, take a look everybody. You can make some good educated guesses as to what they plan to do based on this.

So they're gonna use the Mac channel maybe...

 

[Infinia]

The "sourcing" statement is indeed curious. That could be interesting. Different manufacturers. Sears continuing to sell Chinese sourced tools while Stanley selling a domestically produced tools. At this point it's all speculation but makes for good conversation based on the number of pages.

I'm hoping for US produced tools similar to the old professional line.

Black and Decker never promised the OoC of its new "budget" brand 'Craftsman' ( their words) so if it going to compete in the near term it has to be PRC. . B&D Craftsman has to go against sales of the existing Sears Craftsman lines, Toptul online, and Gearwrench ( auto-stores) level quality in local box stores and MAC tool trucks. It would be almost impossible ( infact miraculous) to have USA, unless competing at a higher quality/price level. Hoping otherwise is plain wishful thinking.

 

[Parrothead]

Black and Decker never promised the OoC of its new "budget" brand 'Craftsman' ( their words) so if it going to compete in the near term it has to be PRC. . B&D Craftsman has to go against sales of the existing Sears Craftsman lines, Toptul online, and Gearwrench ( auto-stores) level quality in local box stores and MAC tool trucks. It would be almost impossible ( infact miraculous) to have USA, unless competing at a higher quality/price level. Hoping otherwise is plain wishful thinking.

I think us tool geeks are a little off in whose competing against whom. Craftsman is competing against Kobalt, Husky, Stanley, Gearwrench, Duralast, Carlyle, and to some extent Tekton. Maybe some other big box store brands I missed are included in that equation too. Toptul, Proto, and MAC just aren't competitors they're tool geek brands (I'm one too). Heck, I've never even seen a Toptul anything, ever. Not exactly common. I know people here love them so I'd be interested in checking them out but to say they're a competitor is a bit much.

 

[bdelmar2]

I wouldn't say tool geek brands, I would say professional tool brands.

Well, honestly never heard of toptul until I saw it here on the forum, but Proto and Mac have been in professional garages for a good 50 years (Most probably longer, but I can only personally verify 50) along with Snap on and Matco, Cornwell, etc...

Go to any shop in any town in the US and pretty much everybody will know those brands off the top of their head, except maybe the guy sweeping the floor - and there are a lot of shops.

Will probably have at least one of each tool even, along with at least some Craftsman.

 

[Infinia]

. Craftsman is competing against Kobalt, Husky, Stanley, Gearwrench, Duralast, Carlyle, and to some extent Tekton.
, I've never even seen a Toptul anything, ever. Not exactly common. I know people here love them so I'd be interested in checking them out but to say they're a competitor is a bit much.

yes I misspoke Tekton (online)not Toptul ( Toptul IMO is aimed more towards Europe)
I'll be interesting to see how B&D Craftsman enters new retail and the positioning along side of Sears product. I kind of doubt HD and Lowes will aggressively promote them over their in-house brands. I expect to see Lawn and Garden and power tools 1st before/over hand tools.

 

[Farmall450]

I have seen a lot of speculation about SBD marketing to WM, HD Lowes or Ace. Has anyone considered that they might market their tools to regional companies like Menards, Meijer or Farm & Fleet or some of the auto parts stores like Auto Zone, Advance, Parts Plus. Another possibility might be to sell a limited assortment of tools to one or more truck stop chain, replacing their Chinese imports.

Just my random thoughts

Farm & Fleet already has Craftsman.
Also DeWalt, interestingly, which is better quality in all honesty.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Atwoods apparently has Craftsman too...

Sears sells DeWalt... lol

 

[Parrothead]

I wouldn't say tool geek brands, I would say professional tool brands.

Well, honestly never heard of toptul until I saw it here on the forum, but Proto and Mac have been in professional garages for a good 50 years (Most probably longer, but I can only personally verify 50) along with Snap on and Matco, Cornwell, etc...

Go to any shop in any town in the US and pretty much everybody will know those brands off the top of their head, except maybe the guy sweeping the floor - and there are a lot of shops.

Will probably have at least one of each tool even, along with at least some Craftsman.

I know about the truck brands, no issue there but I don't think they're really competing with Craftsman, not in any tangible amount. In garages, I'm sure there's a different vibe but in the largest segment, the DIY sector, Craftsman carries a lot of weight. 95% of the people I know would think Matco was something for their wives yoga class. These people all own homes, do some improvements and tinker with the cars a little bit. Their tools? Craftsman and the big box stores.

Food production is very different than a garage. I've been in or worked in 4 regional or national facilities and the BEST tools used by the maintenance staff would be Craftsman. Craftsman, Husky, Kobalt, Harbor Freight and Big Lots are 95 percent of the tools in the facility. The machines kept running and the staff uses whatever they can afford. The trucks don't even visit.

 

[winlinmac]

They should remove the Craftsman Evolv branding and stick to Stanley on that one

 

[squeekers568]

They should remove the Craftsman Evolv branding and stick to Stanley on that one

That evolve brand is basically Chinese junk I have the vise grips the teeth grind down to easy

 

[nbpt100]

Food production is very different than a garage. I've been in or worked in 4 regional or national facilities and the BEST tools used by the maintenance staff would be Craftsman. Craftsman, Husky, Kobalt, Harbor Freight and Big Lots are 95 percent of the tools in the facility. The machines kept running and the staff uses whatever they can afford. The trucks don't even visit.

I agree. I have worked in a number of factories (in a variety of industries) and the maintenance guys will buy Craftsman, Master Mechanic, Husky hand tools and others at about the same level and pricing. If they can get the company to pay for anything they order SK or similar from McMaster Carr, Grainger, etc....
Never in 20+ years saw a tool truck at any of the facilities.
Power tools are a different story.
In my estimation Craftsman hand tools have served this population very well. In a factory you don't deal with a lot of rusty bolts(although you can) like you would on a car/truck in the North. The Craftsman don't break as often as people sometimes suggest. A lot less financial out lay and relatively easy warrantee returns. You don't have to ship anything and wait.

In fact, Craftsman would do well to have their hand tools in Hardware/Mill Supply stores very close to industrial parks.