Show off your WHOLE HOUSE GENERATOR.

[padroo]

I used to lose my power because of a crappy electric company.. Almost three years ago I installed a Kohler 20/17 kv generator. It was a big job because my gas meter is on the south side of my house and my electric meter is not on my house but across the drive to my back garage. As the crow flies about 120 feet apart. I had to get a permit, I had to have the gas company install a bigger gas meter. Due to the large distance between my gas meter and electric meter I had to run 1 1/4 gas line. The shortest way but the hardest way to run the gas line was back through the house. I teed off the gas meter just inside the house , but to get 10 foot lengths of gas pipe through my floor trusses I had to remove one brick to get the gas pipe where I needed it. When I got to the other end or the house I used a 90 and went out the back wall. I rented a trencher and trenched another 90 foot to the generator. I had already installed a frost proof pad for the generator. I had the electric company come and pull my meter and I wired the transfer switch in. I got everything wired up and I called the local Kohler dealer and they came out and checked things over. After bleeding the air out of the gas line it started and has been running it's self test since.

I don't think I saved a dime doing it myself but I got what I want. I had over $8,000 in the project.

 

[bmxdad]

Sub'd ... curious on what is entailed for this. Been thinking about it for sometime.

 

[86turbodsl]

Subb'd. I wish i could say i was further along on my project like this. I put the 200A whole house transfer switch in when i built the house, and i have the Detroit 2-71 20kW genset, but it's not mounted anywhere yet nor hooked up.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[astrohip]

I'm not sure what's to show off. Put a generator in. Ran gas to it. Put in the transfer case. Had electrician do the meter/transfer case wiring.

It's done.

I've done it twice. Once the gas (NG) & electricity were next to each other. Easy peasy. Second time the gas (propane) was around the house. Trenched & ran a line to the generator. Both times used Generac (18/20K).

BTW, people in the biz call them "standby generators", not whole house. As versus portable gens, like you get a Home Depot.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but it does my whole house except the stove and the basement A/C. It's just not a permanent standby generator...


Tommy

 

[padroo]

I gave my portable generator away after I installed the new one. The portable one made the lights flicker and I was afraid to run electronics in the house. It didn't do it when it was new.

The installation is actually easier if you install a larger unit. The wiring is much simpler.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but it does my whole house except the stove and the basement A/C. It's just not a permanent standby generator...


Tommy

Tommy:

I have the EXACT same set up as you! I have the Briggs and Stratton generator and the same 10 circuit transfer switch. The only difference is that my power inlet box has the door on the bottom to attach the cable. That was a requirement in my part of New Jersey in order to let the cable be attached, and the generator running in wet conditions.

I have used my setup a few times since Hurricane Sandy, and like you, it has powered enough things in my house to let us stay in the house during a power outage. And like you said, it can't power the electric stove or the AC, but it powers everything we need to live in the house comfortably.

Jim

 

[Firebrand]

Three weeks ago I won a GovPlanet.com auction for a surplus military MEP-803A 10w generator set. Low hour unit that has only 95.8 hours since a rebuild back in 2012 in Pennsylvania at an Army Depot.

Unit came with Optima Red Top batteries and a one ton trailer under it with Humvee wheels and tires, still with the whiskers on them!

All told so far, I have about $3,800 in the machine with shipping to me. Looking at transfer switches and cable costs now. Fortunately, I have a friend who is a licensed Master so probably will end up with a good deal on parts and pricing.

I do need to go take some quality photos of the unit so I'll be back later with them.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Tommy:

I have the EXACT same set up as you! I have the Briggs and Stratton generator and the same 10 circuit transfer switch. The only difference is that my power inlet box has the door on the bottom to attach the cable. That was a requirement in my part of New Jersey in order to let the cable be attached, and the generator running in wet conditions.

I have used my setup a few times since Hurricane Sandy, and like you, it has powered enough things in my house to let us stay in the house during a power outage. And like you said, it can't power the electric stove or the AC, but it powers everything we need to live in the house comfortably.

Jim

I probably am supposed to have the same box as yours or some kind of "in use " box, too. I did it myself and never really though about wet weather use. The plug goes into the receptacle far enough that I've never had a problem...

Tommy

 

[woodzy]

If you get a whole house generator and an automatic transfer switch rated at the full amperage of your panel it is really simple. Just mount the transfer between your panel and house meter, a few smaller conductors from the transfer switch to the generator, the large connectors from the generator to the transfer switch and you are good to go. If you have some large usage devices there are two places you can have them turned off in the event your generator cannot supply the load. For my house, I have a 16K and it will run everything.

Hook it up, turn on the transfer switch, and wait for power to go out. When it does, about 7-10 seconds the generator starts up, power is restored and as soon as the power is restored from the power company, the switchover is seamless and you don't even get a flicker.

 

[ard]

Question:

If you have a grid tie solar, and the grid goes down- the solar inverter will disconnect....

However, if you have a generator and transfer, will the solar come back on line once it senses AC voltage being supplied??

Or...as I suspect..is it not permissible to have the solar feeding through a subpanel or transfer?

 

[ADSR]

Subb'd. I wish i could say i was further along on my project like this. I put the 200A whole house transfer switch in when i built the house, and i have the Detroit 2-71 20kW genset, but it's not mounted anywhere yet nor hooked up.

Nice genset!!!

 

[barks]

Generac 20 ordered from Amazon, delivered on bobtail. Off loaded from power gate, moved about 30 ft on two fold out dollies and set on prepared 6 inch, level gravel base. Trenches about 40 feet from underground propane. Propane guys laid plastic line and made connections. Electricians installed auto switch and wired in entire house plus water well. Budget was $6,500. Bought crew a six pack with budget under run. Works great.

 

[Empty Pockets]

I have an older Generac unit. It's a little undersized, but serves our purposes well.

It powers Furnace, well, Kitchen, bath, living room, Master bedroom and bath, stairs, smoke detectors, spare freezer.

Our longest power outage is about 10 seconds

 

[ambenz]

We do not have the need for a fixed genset.
Our Power is pretty robust...we just got a new town transformer 4 years ago.
Used this twice during a storm damage event, about 10 hrs without power at the most.

So I got this B&S 5550 for less the $400 refurbished locally.

It is like brand new, still has the scratch plastic protector on the cover.

I can also connect 220 and run 3 phase and it will run 2 refrigerators, two sumps, two televisions, furnace, garage door, and several lights in my home, it meets my needs.
With it on a good load, it will go through 5 gallons in 12 hours.
It will not run the air conditioning.

To store it and have piece of mind it will work when I need it, I run it dry with staybil in the tank.
It has never failed me.

 

[HOTFR8]

I have Solar with battery back up that runs everything. I also have a dedicated input plug on the side of the shed and a power point inside so all I have to do is wheel out the Gen Set and start it and that is in case of emergency to run the pumps etc. in case of a bad fire day.

 

[mm08822]

Question:

If you have a grid tie solar, and the grid goes down- the solar inverter will disconnect....

However, if you have a generator and transfer, will the solar come back on line once it senses AC voltage being supplied??

Or...as I suspect..is it not permissible to have the solar feeding through a subpanel or transfer?

If the solar inverter is connected feeding into the main panel, it will come back on when once generator powers up and tranfser switch transfers. The transfer switch is between the poco meter and main panel.

 

[padroo]

I had to install a larger natural gas meter at the tune of $500.

 

[HOTFR8]

If the solar inverter is connected feeding into the main panel, it will come back on when once generator powers up and tranfser switch transfers. The transfer switch is between the poco meter and main panel.

Depends on the inverter technology. Mine shuts off from the grid if the grid fails and takes power from the panels and the batteries.

 

[mm08822]

I had to install a larger natural gas meter at the tune of $500.

We are lucky in that respect. Our ng provider will upsize the regulator and meter one size for free. I've arranged several upgrades for customers to go from 250 cfh to 425 cfh. Its usually pretty quick to get done once the necessary info is submitted online.

 

[mm08822]

Depends on the inverter technology. Mine shuts off from the grid if the grid fails and takes power from the panels and the batteries.

Yes, true. However, very, very few systems in my area use batteries. So to prevent islanding, the inverters common to this area shut down without a source ac voltage to phase to.

Not sure there is a way to have a standard US home standby generator or whole house generator system detect loss of grid with your style system before the batteries run out. How does your location handle that detail?

 

[astrohip]

I had to install a larger natural gas meter at the tune of $500.

I had forgotten about that. On the NG generator I installed, I needed a larger meter. This was in a city, so I had to get permits, have an electrician do it, a plumber for the gas, etc.

Luckily...

We are lucky in that respect. Our ng provider will upsize the regulator and meter one size for free. I've arranged several upgrades for customers to go from 250 cfh to 425 cfh. Its usually pretty quick to get done once the necessary info is submitted online.

This. Our local NG provider did the upgrade at n/c.

On our propane generator (in the country, no permits), I have a 1,000 gallon buried tank. Enough for anything but the apocalypse. But it also feeds our heaters, cooktop, tankless water heater, etc.

 

[HOTFR8]

Yes, true. However, very, very few systems in my area use batteries. So to prevent islanding, the inverters common to this area shut down without a source ac voltage to phase to.

Not sure there is a way to have a standard US home standby generator or whole house generator system detect loss of grid with your style system before the batteries run out. How does your location handle that detail?

My system is designed to detect a power failure and source power from what ever is available be it batteries or the panels. It is also set up not to feed back to the grid if we have a mains power failure. If I had other systems connected it could start a Gen Set but my Gen Set system is set up so it is not connected to the inverter.

 

[earthmover1980]

I use my welder generator to backfeed into the garge, just like every other poor hillbilly on here! I also have a couple of smaller generators in case one fails, or I can connect them according to load. I like the concept of a automatic standby set, but I don't like not having a plug In case the generator or auto transfer switch fail and they do. When I finally build my dream house, it will have a Manual Transfer Switch with a plug. Then I have my choice of which generator I want to connect. In a perfect world, the generator set would be sized precisely according to the load placed on it. Too big of genset=inefficientcy, too small=less capabilities, and a possible overload, or your not able to run enough things. In my travels, next on my list will be a Diesel generator set, or a PTO generator. I think a Multi Quip welder generator with Isuzu, or Yanmar would be my preference, in a 12kw size. Also, a Kubota lowboy model 6kw is very efficient with its Kubota z482 2 cyl diesel (2qt per hr at full load)! I favor Yanmar Diesel engines. They are lonnnnnnngggg lasting and very fuel efficient. The 2 cylinders are substantially more efficient than the 3 cylinders, even if the horsepower is close. But, even some gasoline driven generators are very efficient.

 

[Firebrand]

Finally had a chance to edit my post (#8) and added photos.

Now I need to sell off my 12.5kW PTO generator unit to cover the wiring and transfer switch for the MEP-803A.

It's a North Star 13000 540 pro unit that has less than 8 hours total time. It's mounted in a three point hitch carryall complete with a power shaft. I've got pics somewhere.

Any interest?

 

[yeldogt]

Generac 20 ordered from Amazon, delivered on bobtail. Off loaded from power gate, moved about 30 ft on two fold out dollies and set on prepared 6 inch, level gravel base. Trenches about 40 feet from underground propane. Propane guys laid plastic line and made connections. Electricians installed auto switch and wired in entire house plus water well. Budget was $6,500. Bought crew a six pack with budget under run. Works great.

I was surprised how much propane they can use in a year -- just doing the test. I'm looking at the same unit or the 22 .... trying to figure out the AC units.

 

[mm08822]

22 kw is cheaper than 20 kw. Also uses less fuel - more efficient.

What are the loads in the house? What are the ac unit details?

 

[Davegvg]

Kohler 20 KW air cooled, on natural gas.

Been put to use twice now - about 9 seconds from power outage to restoration.

Switch back to grid is seamless.

 

[Noltz]

Portable 9k continuous gasoline genset. I modified it to run as switchable floating or bonded neutral.

Inlet is through a standard 30A twist lock mounted on the far side of my garage.

I made the mistake of not future-proofing, and used 8-3 Romex for the run instead of THHN. Ended up with a bigger genset but cannot take full advantage of it.

 

[AP514]

Here is my setup..a POWERBOSS 7000/12000 . Runs 1 of my A/C units in the house(SureStart setup on A/C) and Condensor Fan or 5 other curcuits. Fridge, Freezer, Main Living Room (lites and plugs) Master BR(Plugs-for internet/cable) GameRoom Plugs.

Hyper SureStart thread...https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=467347

Picture of my Gen. with unbond switch. the other pic is of my manual transfer switch.(install far left)

 

[Viz]

"...... I modified it to run as switchable floating or bonded neutral...."

How did you do that ?

 

[chrispyny]

Later model TBQ (Tactical Battle Quiet)MEP-802A. 2 cyl lister petter diesel. 30 amp twist lock at genset and at side of house with a 30 dollar square d qo interlock kit installed at the panel.

Genset runs .5 gal per hour at full load. 5 gal day tank with aux hook up for another 5 gal holding tank or 55 gal drum. Will do 5kw at .8 power factor, or 6250 watts pure resistive. It’s a prime power inverter genset. Super clean power. Little brother to the above big sister. Purchased at auction, picked up at fort drum, in it for about $1,500 after selling the trailer with hummer wheels on it.

My house is 1400 sq ft, all natural gas everything except the dryer which will be gas once this one is past repair. Boiler, water heater, stove/oven, etc. Air conditioning are 2 extremely efficient ductless minisplits with 4 heads total which this can easily handle when both run at the same time. Perfectly sized, very efficient.

 

[AP514]

"...... I modified it to run as switchable floating or bonded neutral...."

How did you do that ?

See this Thread.....and I am sure a search will show many more threads here.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466775

 

[AP514]

Purchased at auction, picked up at fort drum, in it for about $1,500 after selling the trailer with hummer wheels on it.

So, how do I find these auctions in my area ??

 

[chrispyny]

They dried up a few years ago. At affordable prices anyway. But the best place to find them is govplanet.com. They come up from time to time. People just bid stupid money on them.

Only mep-802’s and 803’s 5 and 10k watts respectively are split or 3 phase. ALL others are 3 phase only. Just fyi.

 

[AP514]

Thanks for the info...

I had a cousin bid on a Duce and a half truck that he won. It had the Cab and new pickeled engine sitting in the bed. $2500

 

[Noltz]

"...... I modified it to run as switchable floating or bonded neutral...."

How did you do that ?

Sorry I didn't get back to this thread in a while. Not sure if I should post it here or start a new thread. It might actually be a good idea to make a Sticky for unbonding portable generators??

This is the generator end of my portable genset with the cover off. The Ground wire from the plugs is the Green/Yellow, and my Neutral comes out of the genset as Grey. See here on the first 2 pictures my Neutral wire is connected / bonded to the case by a short piece of white wire. I removed the white jumper from the case and secured it back to the neutral stud. (I could remove this jumper wire completely, but this makes it reversable.)



Bolt Removed, Wire relocated, and Ground reinstalled.




I wanted to be able to switch easily between unbonded (for Home backup use) and bonded (for Portable use). So I added an externally switched jumper set between the original case bolt (Ground) and the Grey wire stud (Neutral).

 

[AP514]

Nice Clean Mod.

 

[Cougar]

I have Solar with battery back up that runs everything. I also have a dedicated input plug on the side of the shed and a power point inside so all I have to do is wheel out the Gen Set and start it and that is in case of emergency to run the pumps etc. in case of a bad fire day.

Is there a thread on your install.

 

[zippi]

I guess if you live in an area where power outagage accure frequently it may be worth getting one. I had my house built about 35 years ago and I can only remember one time in the winter that power has been out for more than 2 hours. Just can't justify getting one.