Tight Square Turn (90 degree) For EMT Conduit

[penright]

By the way I am running 3/4 EMT.

Here is my obstruction.


I would like to continue along the bottom of the girt and make the corner behind the pole. There is a product that comes close to allowing what I need.
http://www.garvinindustries.com/conduit-fittings-supports/emt-conduit-fittings/pull-elbows/ecs-75

The problem is I don't think I will be able to get to the screws since they are on the inside.

I did do the 2 45 degree last night. The issue was I wanted to put shelves in that corner and **** up against the pole.

Assuming there is nothing that can be done. I can only think of two options.
1. Go overhead, the only down side is losing symmetry of the conduit in the building. (ring around the girt)
2. Hold the back legs of the shelf proud of the wall, then when I cut shelves allow the back to overhang and but back up with the wall.

 

[rockwithjason]

You could look at an lb or ll condolet.

 

[penright]

You could look at an lb or ll condolet.

It would have to be a LL (i think), after laying it in there the cover would have to be pointing down. I could leave the inside screw a little lose, notch the end so it would go around the "inside" screw". I could still get my pull. Will have to look at that.

Your thought got me thinking outside the box or should I say outside the conduit? Will MC make that bend? Do they make MC without wire. I know without wire it would not be a "cable".

Edit: Found it I think. AFC?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-3-4-in-x-25-ft-Flexible-Steel-Conduit-5503-22-AFC/205071931
I wonder how sharp can you bend it?

 

[sberry]

They make a condulet comes off at 90. Maybe able to put a handi box behind it too.

 

[Radix2]

Not seeing the issue against going inside the pole - place the shelf directly above. Space others from there.

 

[LXCam]

An LL or a LR is you're only legal option.

 

[TurnipTruck]

What about flex, like BX, or liquidtite?

 

[LXCam]

You could 90 up or down into a 4S box then 90 and kick or offset back into the web too.

 

[penright]

What about flex, like BX, or liquidtite?

I am guessing and one of the experts can correct me, let's assuming it can be bent that sharp of a turn, I bet there is code about radius vs size of EMT. As I learned in pulling my service about codes and 90's, sometimes following the code makes your life easier (besides saving it).
I guessing the reason LL and LB are the only options is because they are considered a box and you can restart a pull.

I still curious, how tight can you bend 3/4" flex both physically and code?

 

[penright]

Not seeing the issue against going inside the pole - place the shelf directly above. Space others from there.

It was late by time I figured out the 2 45 and I did not take a picture, I will when I get home before I pull it down and post it for future info. I think they call it a compound 90. There was not much in googling. The one thread I found was about 15 different opinions on how to do it. I finally went with the mock it up, join it in the middle, and got close.

The problem is when you look at it the bend starts about 4" to clear the obstruction. So you would have to hold about 4" off either the back or from the pole. Again, a picture will be worth a 1000 words.

 

[davetulk]

Is there any give in the insulation behind the post? If you picked up a prefab 90 bend from HD can you thread it behind the post? even Slide it in vertical then rotate it horizontal?

I might be totally off base...not that familiar with how the corners attached on steel building.

Also for my education why is that tight 90 not legal? I assume there would be no junction in it. http://www.homedepot.com/p/3-4-in-E...-EMT-Inside-Corner-Pull-Elbow-14607/100210850

 

[LXCam]

Well since you're really over complicated this transition. Use a LL to a close ****** to a pulling L to a close ****** to a LR. That'll keep everything at hard 90's but assuming that upright is 2"x2" will push the pulling L out maybe 1/2-1" or not a tad more. It all depends on how far or close I should say you can tighten the assembly.

 

[DeltaWye]

If you don't have the space behind the post to do a radiused 90 at the same elevation then your only options are to run on the inside, spot a box or fitting on the outside corner of the building and come back in after the post, or change elevations. I'd change elevations. Like Lxcam suggests in post #8, 90 down with a kick into a box or what I'd do is 90 down into another 90 going along the other wall. 90, offset or spot a box as per your requirements and degrees of bend accumulated before the corner in order to get back up to your height.

 

[checkthisout]

It was late by time I figured out the 2 45 and I did not take a picture, I will when I get home before I pull it down and post it for future info. I think they call it a compound 90. There was not much in googling. The one thread I found was about 15 different opinions on how to do it. I finally went with the mock it up, join it in the middle, and got close.

The problem is when you look at it the bend starts about 4" to clear the obstruction. So you would have to hold about 4" off either the back or from the pole. Again, a picture will be worth a 1000 words.

Hold it out then adjust shelving as needed. Not 100% sure what you have in mind but if a shelf rests almost on top of it then it's not interfering at all.

If you have adjustable metal shelving you can slide the post between the conduit and the post then install your shelving brackets.

 

[LXCam]

I have one last terrible suggestion (for many reasons) so no blasting from the peanut gallery. Get yourself a telephone 90 and drill your post and insert that in the post. Damn the structural aspect or the difficulty of pulling wire thru it, it would be legal from a code aspect and keep yourself clear of the corner.

 

[sberry]

I bet that would clear the corner, I think they make one with double set screw connectors. I liked the original idea of laying cable in the channel and covering it, so simple.

 

[penright]

Hold it out then adjust shelving as needed. Not 100% sure what you have in mind but if a shelf rests almost on top of it then it's not interfering at all. If you have adjustable metal shelving you can slide the post between the conduit and the post then install your shelving brackets.

I will be building them so I could make any adjustments. That is my plan B if the LL/LR doesn't work. The only reason right now I can see is it not working is if I can not get the cover on/off from underneath. As @LXCam said, I am over thinking it. Although overthinking is my personality, I also know if I don't think through it, my OCD will bug me every time I see it.

I liked the original idea of laying cable in the channel and covering it, so simple.

That is definitely starting to look like the better/easier option. But look at all the conduit bending I have learned. I did a compound 90, that I will not use this time and probably never. You know the old saying about education, it always cost time and money.

 

[Radix2]

I will be building them so I could make any adjustments. That is my plan B if the LL/LR doesn't work. The only reason right now I can see is it not working is if I can not get the cover on/off from underneath. As @LXCam said, I am over thinking it. Although overthinking is my personality, I also know if I don't think through it, my OCD will bug me every time I see it.

Now I am really missing your problem - if you are building your own shelves, just do a nice sweep to the inside of the beam and continue down the next wall, clean, nice and simple.

Build your shelf directly on top of the pipe height, space the other shelves from there.

Again, nice and simple...if the 3/4 in of the conduit under the shelf is interfering ..you are building your shelve too close together...

Or maybe I am still not getting what you are trying to do...

 

[ard]

There is NO WAY I would bury a box or LB or whatever deep in that corner behind a shelf. It defeats the entire concept of conduit- to be able to pull wires.

I would either do the back to back 45s and notch the shelf a little bit... OR... Compress the insulation by about 1/2" and slide a 90 into place.

My 2 cents


Edit: OP, you may not have this perspective- but every other sparky that has come upon someone else's work....they will be looking to add a circuit and will start pulling the wire and find "hey it's stuck"... A day later they will discover that some &$^$^ put an LB behind the post them built shelves over it.... They will post a picture on GJ.

 

[checkthisout]

I bet that would clear the corner, I think they make one with double set screw connectors. I liked the original idea of laying cable in the channel and covering it, so simple.

He made the right decision going with the conduit. He's doing a good job too!

 

[sberry]

He is doing a good job but do we think the electric would know the difference?

 

[matt_i]

Not seeing the issue against going inside the pole - place the shelf directly above. Space others from there.

That would be my take, couple of 45s. Notch the support post for the shelves or simply add spacer blocks to get more clearance to the steel corner.

 

[ard]

Now I am really missing your problem - if you are building your own shelves, just do a nice sweep to the inside of the beam and continue down the next wall, clean, nice and simple.

Build your shelf directly on top of the pipe height, space the other shelves from there.

Again, nice and simple...if the 3/4 in of the conduit under the shelf is interfering ..you are building your shelve too close together...

Or maybe I am still not getting what you are trying to do...

OP has some (and this isnt judgemental) OCD issues going on with the plane of the shelf sides, fitting right up to the post, no notches, etc, etc (I think)

OP, there are always- ALWAYS- trade offs. In this case it is 'continuous pipe, EMT fully functional and no hidden boxes/fittings' against 'there will be a notch in the side wall of the shelf'.

You can hide this notch by placing the shelf height just above the level of the notch. The notch will not be seen unless you get down an look for it.

HTH

GL

Agree looks good so far

 

[sberry]

I agree, I would want a common bend in the pipe if I could, build around it.

 

[Norcal]

Bend the EMT w/ 2-45's on the outside of the post, conduit bodies in a semi-concealed space ****.

 

[ard]

He is doing a good job but do we think the electric would know the difference?

Karmicly speaking... it will.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Bend a 90 and see if you can swing it around back side of post.

 

[ard]

This is silly, but there is another way- keeps it all in two planes, perfect corner:


Adds 3 extra 90s, and would visually be much older than the other solutiuons. But, thought about it.

You could do it with two 90s, but then one piece would leave the corner at a differnet level (i.e. Not at the purlin). If each bend is a 6" radius, then one would be 12" at least offset

 

[teamextreme]

Bend the EMT w/ 2-45's on the outside of the post, conduit bodies in a semi-concealed space ****.

28 posts and only one person got it right! The ONLY appropriate solution is 2 45's. Quick, easy, still only 90 degrees of total bend, and no hidden or hard to get at conduit bodies.

 

[mm08822]

B/c the 4" sq post is in the corner and not contained within the plane of the walls, nothing will ever fit tightly into that corner from both directions without a custom build. So it's really a moot point whether it is 1 or 2 sides that aren't tight into the corner.
I read the OP's problem as the vertical of the shelf being held away from the face of the 4" sq tubing. Nothing to do with the individual horizontal shelves or bracing.
Since shelving rarely moves once assembled (IMO), bend 2 45's with enough clearance between the conduit and tubing where the vertical leg can fit next to the 4" tubing and behind the conduit. Use a coupling in the center of the 45s.
And when the day comes where he is actually putting up the shelving, pull the wires out of the conduit, separate the conduits at the coupling between the 45's and put the entire shelf (leg) into desired position and re-assemble conduit/wires.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

This is silly, but there is another way- keeps it all in two planes, perfect corner:


Adds 3 extra 90s, and would visually be much older than the other solutiuons. But, thought about it.

You could do it with two 90s, but then one piece would leave the corner at a differnet level (i.e. Not at the purlin). If each bend is a 6" radius, then one would be 12" at least offset

How in the world would you ever pull wire through that?

 

[mm08822]

28 posts and only one person got it right! The ONLY appropriate solution is 2 45's. Quick, easy, still only 90 degrees of total bend, and no hidden or hard to get at conduit bodies.

Read post #1 again.
OP said he didn't like that method so he is looking for alternatives b/c going tight to the column keeps the shelves away from the corner/wall.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I could get a 90 around that post .

 

[mm08822]

I could get a 90 around that post .

I don't see enough depth to the channel to to clear the inner radius of 3/4 emt around the exterior side of the post.

 

[ard]

How in the world would you ever pull wire through that?

Well, there's that too.



(And on the 'two 45s' comment above...its been here since post 1.)

On running a 90, those outer walls that look like insulation MAY have some compression- it won't take much to get a 6" bend to make it

 

[mm08822]

Well, there's that too.



(And on the 'two 45s' comment above...its been here since post 1.) That comment has already been said also.

On running a 90, those outer walls that look like insulation MAY have some compression- it won't take much to get a 6" bend to make it

Time for arts & crafts for you -
draw this out to scale. If that channel is 1" or even 1.5", you are not getting a 3/4 emt 90 around that post in that small of a gap.

 

[checkthisout]

Try the 90 but if it doesn't work I.E. it might hit the post and want to pull the rest of the run outward toward the insulation, you'll need to make your bend like this. Sorry I **** at paint.

View media item 67470
Can't tell you exactly where to start the bends but you'll make an offset bend, then a 90 bend then another offset bend. This will allow the 90 radius to fit better without it's inner radius hitting the post and wanting to pull the straight portion of the run outwards towards the siding.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Well, there's that too.



(And on the 'two 45s' comment above...its been here since post 1.)

On running a 90, those outer walls that look like insulation MAY have some compression- it won't take much to get a 6" bend to make it

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Time for arts & crafts for you -
draw this out to scale. If that channel is 1" or even 1.5", you are not getting a 3/4 emt 90 around that post in that small of a gap.

There's plenty of give in that insulation.

 

[sberry]

This isn't the real problem. It's really amateur advice in a way. It comes from an absolute compulsion and fear that some day at some point he will need to pull several new circuits in to start a power plant fab shop in the corner of this garage.
Out of the 100's of times I have done this I can't recall having to go back in and pull extra wires for something new. In fact when it's all over could remove 1/2 of the ones I have and not lose a thing.
The logic is lost right up front, "if he wants to put more welders in the corner" etc . This is a small 2 car garage at that.
I add things and even remodel but never needed to break back in to a general to "add for welders and saws" in the same pipe.
My neighbor has this, 2 120v circuits for tools, lathe, mill, about 6 or 8 wood saws, 2 for 240, 1 for a welder and 1 for a comp and the only wire mod done since was to tap for a new gas heater. same for my buds auto shop, 1 mod once right at the panel for AC. 30 yrs 2 men work there.
It's nice work but it's a waste of time and money other than it's cheaper than sitting in the bar, there isn't a deal breaker here but doing this in 1/2 would have done the same thing but the group pile on really does a disservice and does it for the rest want to learn.
No spec builder would do this,, the most he would ever add is a small run out of the panel which is great it's there with extra spaces.
This is not a hospital, a casino or machine shop in which 99 percent of the time a new pipe is run anyway.
This would have been easy and neat in 1/2.