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Tools of Japan

Cwalter

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Jan 7, 2016
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Persia
Top & Koken ratchet wrench. Top Kogyo is very high quality:thumbup:

<img border=0 src="http://matchbox.persiangig.com/DSC05250.JPG">

<img border=0 src="http://matchbox.persiangig.com/DSC05251.JPG">

<img border=0 src="http://matchbox.persiangig.com/DSC05252.JPG">

Top: 24 teeth
Koken : 22 teeth
 
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PureLeaf

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That Top ratchet looks like the similar mechanism as Stahlwille

2015-04-10%2014.43.52_zps3lenpjvt.jpg
 

dutchgray

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I think that Top ratchet wrench is old stock, theirs that I have seen recently are the good 72 teeth Taiwan made ones. Nice wrench though and if I could find them I would buy them.
 

M6erfan

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I think that Top ratchet wrench is old stock, theirs that I have seen recently are the good 72 teeth Taiwan made ones. Nice wrench though and if I could find them I would buy them.

If that's old stock and not in production any longer, that's kind of a shame. That looks like a great design

Out of curiosity, I tried to find a Top catalog. No dice, and their website information is pretty poor from a tool offering perspective
 

superautobacs

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What do you mean by "stacked style"? Have an example?


I was wondering myself, too. I believe he means laminated style, as opposed to the modern ratcheting wrenches that are forged.


If that's old stock and not in production any longer, that's kind of a shame. That looks like a great design

Out of curiosity, I tried to find a Top catalog. No dice, and their website information is pretty poor from a tool offering perspective

TOP still makes them, according to their website. http://www.toptools.co.jp/products/1375/


MCC is another brand that offers them: http://www.mcccorp.co.jp/catalog/catalog.htm

dr.jpg


These offset wrenches are catered toward the construction/heavy industries, and tend to be unpractical for automotive use.

KTC used to offer them too, but they stopped production many years ago to make way for the earliest versions of the "modern" ratcheting wrenches coming from Taiwan.

I've never seen the spring/pawl mechanism of the TOP style, but I can't imagine it being very different from the Taiwanese racheting wrenches pictured above by Dutchgray (the Stahlwille ones). Those Stahlwille ones are made by KABO. The inner working is very simple, with only a few peices, and is a design that's capable of withstanding high loads.

Deep offset ratcheting wrenches from KABO were once offered by SK's G-Pro lineup (post-Facom / pre-Ideal days):

g-prooffsetwrenches.jpg


These weren't big hits in the automotive scene because of the large clearance needed to engage fasteners, and the spline drive concept being quite new to the market.

Back in 2012, I found these in Japan, sold under the Signet brand. Note the location of the direction button....yes, like the Stahlwille, it's a KABO. I don't know if they were old stock or not:






There's also SEK, under their Pro-Auto brand:
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BK13

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What do you mean by "stacked style"? Have an example?



http://m.ebay.com/itm/192089213673?_mwBanner=1

Best example I could find quickly. The modern style of ratcheting is made with a single forged beam with the mechanisms pressed into the ends, the ones I'm talking about look like they are almost laminated, with top covers covering the mechanical guts. Terrible description, I know.


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dutchgray

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Thanks Superautobacs, I had a look round their site but couldn't find them, also have never seen them for sale, will have to try to get a few in common sizes as they would be useful at work.
 

losvre

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Hello all,

What's the difference between the Japanese and Taiwanese ratcheting wrenches?

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losvre

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I also have a question for the experts.

IIan looking into some 1/4 extensions and drive handle as well as bit holder.

I have some QR Stahlwile and Facom standard however I am looking for something that fits very well with minimum play when connected, I.e. very snug fit

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Dave455

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I also have a question for the experts.

IIan looking into some 1/4 extensions and drive handle as well as bit holder.

I have some QR Stahlwile and Facom standard however I am looking for something that fits very well with minimum play when connected, I.e. very snug fit

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Look at KoKen Z Series! It's one of the few ranges of tools that are designed to tighter tolerances and with reduced clearance between the parts.

This certainly seems to work in the 3/8 drive, and they have just introduced 1/4 drive too!

Failing that, you just have to try them! There's quite a bit of variation between makes!
 

jo4gj

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The dirty dirty south
Me too. I really like Ko-ken sockets, extensions, and ratchets. Their ratchets have ridiculously low back drag like you mentioned and the fit, finish, strength, of all their products are second to non IMO. Their knurling kicks **** too.

Recent strong dollar has made them an even better value here in the U.S., which was already stellar. :beer:

Where you buying koken tools I see they are a little pricy on amazon? Would you buy these over Williams reguarding sockets?
 
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losvre

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Look at KoKen Z Series! It's one of the few ranges of tools that are designed to tighter tolerances and with reduced clearance between the parts.

This certainly seems to work in the 3/8 drive, and they have just introduced 1/4 drive too!

Failing that, you just have to try them! There's quite a bit of variation between makes!
Thanks Dave!

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Fcvapor05

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Would you buy these over Williams reguarding sockets?

Koken makes good tools- but the only reason people on this board freak out over them is that they look nice, and they're exotic.

Functionally, they're on par with anyone who makes good quality tools, which is a group I would include Williams in.
 

M6erfan

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Koken makes good tools- but the only reason people on this board freak out over them is that they look nice, and they're exotic.

Functionally, they're on par with anyone who makes good quality tools, which is a group I would include Williams in.

Lol, thats funny....

I buy Ko-ken because they make excellent quality, up there with "the best", at an extremely good value. Metallurgy, forging, design, tolerances, fit/finish, range of products, etc...these are the reasons I buy Koken.

I cant compare to Williams, I've never owned their sockets. Williams get good reviews her on GJ
 

superautobacs

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If a person's only need is functionality (turning a fastener for loosening and tightening) then any brand will suffice, whether it be a Williams, a Ko-ken, or that cheap set in the bargain bin. They are all designed to do the same thing, turn a fastener. This is GJ though, and people have a multitude of reasons in seeking out their prefered choice in tools/brands.

Williams makes good sockets, and they should be as they come off the same assembly line as their flag-ship brand, Snap-on.

Ko-ken's lineup of sockets offers much more variety (unique/specialty sockets) than Williams does. Ko-ken's Zeal lineup of sockets, although not offering as much in variety as the standard Ko-ken lineup, has features that aren't available in Williams, or any other brand in the market today. Yes, there's added functionality to their sockets that Williams doesn't have. So, if those added features are of benefit to you, then yes, there's a reason to chose them over the competition. :)
 

Fcvapor05

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Lol, thats funny....

I buy Ko-ken because they make excellent quality, up there with "the best", at an extremely good value. Metallurgy, forging, design, tolerances, fit/finish, range of products, etc...these are the reasons I buy Koken.

I cant compare to Williams, I've never owned their sockets. Williams get good reviews her on GJ

Oh really? Please tell me all about Koken's metallurgy and forging techniques.

Koken is nice stuff- but it has the following it does because it's exotic. There's nothing wrong with that.
 

kblee27

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Oh really? Please tell me all about Koken's metallurgy and forging techniques.

Koken is nice stuff- but it has the following it does because it's exotic. There's nothing wrong with that.

I buy Koken bcuz of the nut grip, besides just being exotic.
I don't see other tool makers selling that.
 

American Locomotive

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Oh really? Please tell me all about Koken's metallurgy and forging techniques.

Koken is nice stuff- but it has the following it does because it's exotic. There's nothing wrong with that.
We bought Koken because for the amount of sockets and ratchets we bought, we spent literally 1/3rd as much money as it would have took to get the same tools with SnapOn. 1/3rd the cost for the same quality is a winner in my book.

Koken has a following because they provide an extremely high quality tool at a very reasonable price.
 
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SantaAna12

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I cant say it better than Superautobacs did, so I wont try.

FWIW...If you buy a Zeal set and still think it is middle of the road, with all due respect, you should consider opening your mind. The socket rail itself should make a large impression on you. The machining to allow for easy removal from ratchet? The height difference? The lack of play when on the ratchet? The low backdrag? Im talking LOW. The clean lines?

Open your mind!
 

M6erfan

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Oh really? Please tell me all about Koken's metallurgy and forging techniques.

Koken is nice stuff- but it has the following it does because it's exotic. There's nothing wrong with that.

You can do your own research about Ko-ken. Or choose not to and move on...

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and choices, and the reasons for their choices. I hope you are enjoying whatever brand you've chosen
 

losvre

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Hi guys,

With regards to the Metallurgy, both Germany and Japan having the best of the best of steel these days. USA has also good steel as well as France.

It would be difficult to say who is better but in my opinion better is the one who has very tolerances, good alloy to avoid excessive rust and high strength for the same thickness.

Most of these alloys would be similar. The difference comes on the temperatures they are processed (especially tempering) and ALSO the time consumed to achieve the results.

Only way to say who is best is to get one size of each manufacturer and test them until failure. And even then you would need quite a few samples from each size for statistical purposes and error.

At the end, the functionality is more important between all reputable brands, i.e. knurling, not slippery, tight tolerances, no play when engaged with ratchet/ extensions, etc.

Buy whatever fits on your hands but stay away from cheap ones because you will never be happy deep inside you:)
 

Fcvapor05

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FWIW...If you buy a Zeal set and still think it is middle of the road, with all due respect, you should consider opening your mind

Nowhere did I say that Koken is 'middle of the road'.

I own Koken tools dude. They are nice. They work well.

But it's a simple fact that they'd get a lot less attention if the exact same sockets said Wright or SK on the side.

There's nothing wrong with wanting exotic stuff that none of your friends will have. Just own it.
 

SantaAna12

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My apologies.

My opinion is just that.

I am in danger somedays of thinking it is more than it is.

:beer:
 

American Locomotive

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If they said "Wright", they would cost more and not be as good of a value. If they said SK, there would be QC concerns (apparently the QC issues are resolved, but there are a lot of iffy sockeg sets still on shelves)
 

Qualitytools

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Once I purchased a set of Koken Zeal metric sockets I was/am now sold on them. I LOVE them they are a work of art as far as I am concerned, fit, finish, precision and quality and even the rail (as mentioned above) is very well designed and extremely useful.
 

gbh

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May 2, 2012
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Here's a pic of my Koken and Snap On extensions.
I reach for the Koken extensions every time I need one, why?
I like the flexibility of the wobble head, the ease of going from wobble to lock, but most of all I like the knurling. The Snap On knurling is just too fine to make any difference when your hands are oily or greasy.
I'd be surprised if the Snap On weren't stronger given their diameter but I've never had the need to worry about that much strength.
But most of all I like that the Koken cost around one third of the cost of Snap On. Truthfully, I only bought the Snap On for their name but have now found something that's better suited to my needs including budget.
 

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losvre

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Here's a pic of my Koken and Snap On extensions.
I reach for the Koken extensions every time I need one, why?
I like the flexibility of the wobble head, the ease of going from wobble to lock, but most of all I like the knurling. The Snap On knurling is just too fine to make any difference when your hands are oily or greasy.
I'd be surprised if the Snap On weren't stronger given their diameter but I've never had the need to worry about that much strength.
But most of all I like that the Koken cost around one third of the cost of Snap On. Truthfully, I only bought the Snap On for their name but have now found something that's better suited to my needs including budget.

Hi gbh,

How is the fitment of Koken when connect one extension to another and to sockets? Is there any play much or little?

Thanks
 

nia573

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Mar 18, 2006
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Wales
Posted in the general section but was recommended to post in this thread too.

Picked this ETC Industrial Tools 1/2" dr socket set at a car boot (yard) sale here in the UK at the weekend & was wondering if anyone had seen this brand before?

Its a nice heavy duty set & comes in a steel case that has a few external scuffs & paint scrapes/splashes on it, but the set appears to have had little use.

Its made in Japan & Id estimate its from the 70's or 80's perhaps?

Ive given it a quick clean & also re greased the ratchet & its smooth as silk now :)
 

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gbh

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Hi gbh,

How is the fitment of Koken when connect one extension to another and to sockets? Is there any play much or little?

Thanks

That's a perfectly good question though not something I've encountered.
So, I took a look. I would say there is very little movement but that doesn't tell much.
Soooo, I connected my 30mm extension to the 150mm and estimate movement to be around 2 mm. When reversed (150 connected to 30mm) the movement at the extreme end is accentuated and is approximately 6 mm....and that's good enough for the girl's I go out with. :)
 
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