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Help me choose an air compressor :S

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Theoctagon

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Hi all, New to the forum but have seen it come up a lot with my air compressor search. I have a small engine repair shop that is getting moved to a larger location. The well used craftsman 3.2hp 60 gallon will not be making the trip. I have been looking at all my options in the area (napa industrial, c-aire, polar air-online,....) The more i look the more confused i get. One thing i have seen ring true from everyone is that a Saylor-Beall should be at the top of my list.

I am not opposed to overbuying to an extent but i dont want to undersize. Looking at either 5 or 7.5 hp and 60 or 80 gallon. I want something low rpm and on the quiet side.

The Napa one has really caught my eye but i dont care for napa all that much. Does anyone know who builds the napa industrial compressors?

Looking for any and all recommendations and i thank you in advance.

Randy
 
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The Tool Tyrant

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Buying a new compressor is akin to buying a new car...even from the same manufacturer. You can buy a Chevy Cruze or a Chevy Corvette.

Quincy has their top of the line QR series, next is the QT series, followed by the 'Big Box' store compressor that is branded by several different companies.
The QR series are all pressure lubricated, the QT series comes in two versions, 'splash' lubricated and pressure lubricated. The 'Big Box' model is 'splash' lubricated.

Champion Compressors and Saylor - Beall are both great compressors and like Quincy, offer both pressure and 'splash' lubrication options.

Personally, they are the top 3 manufacturers in my book. It all comes down to how much you relay on your compressor and how much you're willing to spend.

I use a Quincy QR 325 in my business, and at home I use both Champion and Saylor - Beall (both splash lubricated) and I can say that none of the 3 has ever failed me. I am pretty **** with maintenance though.
 
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ken w.

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If your on a budget you can find the IR at Farm & Fleet for $ 1100.00 that would be more than enough for shop use.
 
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md21722

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The Quincy 5HP 60 gallon is the QT-54 which you can buy from many of the big box stores. The best compressors are not available in big box stores.

Saylor Beall only offers one line of compressors. At 5 HP A SB 705 pump spins 845 RPM.

Champion R-Series or Advantage lines would be at the top of the list as well, right up there with Saylor Beall. It is not uncommon to find listings for Champion compressors that are 50-70 years old still working and for sale. At 5 HP a Champion R-15 pump spins 734 RPM.

Neither Champion or Saylor Beall provide pump life in hours nor require you to buy an expensive "maintenance package" at time of sale to get the "No Bull" Quincy warranty. The Quincy QT-54/QT-5/QT-7.5 are faster spinning pumps, closer to 1,000 RPM. The Quincy QR is what made the Quincy name. You cannot buy a QR at a big box store.

The NAPA compressors are made by ABAC. ABAC is a subsidiary of Atlas Copco who also makes Chicago Pneumatic, Bel Air, and even the 5 HP compressor from Harbor Freight. The 5-7.5 HP pumps are Asian made same as Polar Air uses. They are knock offs of the SB 705 and 707 pump.

60 gallon vertical is most common on the smaller 3.x HP compressors. 80 gallon vertical is the most common configuration for a 5-7.5 HP compressor. If you are using a lot of air, like constant use of die grinders, or blasting, get one with an after cooler or come up with some other way to deal with moisture. If you step up to 10 HP, then 120-240 gallon tanks are common.

In my shop I have 10HP / 240 gallon using 2 Champion R-15 pumps including an auxiliary tank that acts as an after cooler for both. I use air quite a bit at times for grinders...

To get the slowest turning you'd need to look for a pump rated for 10HP that runs at 5 or 7.5 HP. You can get a Saylor Beall 707 in a 5 HP configuration but it costs about $1,000 more than the Saylor Beall 705 in a 5 HP...but only spins around 455-500 RPM. Likewise, the Champion R-15 spins 990 RPM at 7.5 HP but at 7.5 HP the R-30 only spins 575 RPM... How slow do you want to go? :D

I guess you call your local air compressor dealer and talk to them. In my area we have two dealers and they sell a mix of air compressors, everything from Asian imports to high end domestic. They tell me they sell Curtis value series and now Sanborn 7.5 HP (same Asian pump on both, do you like green or black paint better?) to all the tire shops in town...

The Polar Air or NAPA is probably going to be your best bang for the buck. I've owned NAPA branded compressors in the past and they have been fine.
 
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Sasquatch912

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md21722 said:
The Quincy 5HP 60 gallon is the QT-54 which you can buy from many of the big box stores. The best compressors are not available in big box stores.

Saylor Beall only offers one line of compressors. At 5 HP A SB 705 pump spins 845 RPM.

Champion R-Series or Advantage lines would be at the top of the list as well, right up there with Saylor Beall. It is not uncommon to find listings for Champion compressors that are 50-70 years old still working and for sale. At 5 HP a Champion R-15 pump spins 734 RPM.

Neither Champion or Saylor Beall provide pump life in hours nor require you to buy an expensive "maintenance package" at time of sale to get the "No Bull" Quincy warranty. The Quincy QT-54/QT-5/QT-7.5 are faster spinning pumps, closer to 1,000 RPM. The Quincy QR is what made the Quincy name. You cannot buy a QR at a big box store.

The NAPA compressors are made by ABAC. ABAC is a subsidiary of Atlas Copco who also makes Chicago Pneumatic, Bel Air, and even the 5 HP compressor from Harbor Freight. The 5-7.5 HP pumps are Asian made same as Polar Air uses. They are knock offs of the SB 705 and 707 pump.

60 gallon vertical is most common on the smaller 3.x HP compressors. 80 gallon vertical is the most common configuration for a 5-7.5 HP compressor. If you are using a lot of air, like constant use of die grinders, or blasting, get one with an after cooler or come up with some other way to deal with moisture. If you step up to 10 HP, then 120-240 gallon tanks are common.

In my shop I have 10HP / 240 gallon using 2 Champion R-15 pumps including an auxiliary tank that acts as an after cooler for both. I use air quite a bit at times for grinders...
Click to expand...

So you think the harbor freight 5hp is better than the quincy?
 
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md21722

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I have no personal experience with either HF 5 HP or Quincy QT-54, but from everything I've seen or heard, I rate them about the same. I don't care for the Quincy "no bull" warranty which requires you to buy an expensive maintenance kit with your compressor. It's misleading and sounds gimmicky. Quincy offers excellent customer service though. With HF, you just buy the extended warranty and take it back to them if there are any problems. And the HF is cheaper, too. I would choose the HF over the Quincy QT-54, and buy a Champion or SB over Quincy QT series.
 
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md21722

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I want to clarify my above post. The HF 5 HP does NOT use the SB 705 knockoff pump. It is a Rolair style pump.
 
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Theoctagon

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Thank you guys for the quick responses and all the info! So it would appear that if i wanted a knock off pump i would be money ahead going with polar air vs the napa compressor. (i figured the napa wasnt some great hidden secret of a compressor but just wasnt totally sure) If i want to get genuine american build quality and heritage its the high end quincy, the SB or a Champion.

I like the idea of having an all american compressor and a 5hp 80 gallon unit would probably be more than enough. The most air i use is blowing off machines that are covered with matted down grass and grease/oil, running impact guns and cut off wheels stuff like that. Will occasionally be running multiple air lines but not frequently. Just want to make sure i have a "futureproofed" purchase so i dont go through this again.
 
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md21722

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The Champion Centurion uses a cast iron head & reed valves. It is not as good as the premium R-Series/Advantage Series. The difference between R and Advantage is the that the Advantage is a high production unit in common figurations whereas the R is custom made to whatever you want. I actually recommend AGAINST the auto drain valve because those can be leaky. Manual extended ball valve is more reliable long term unless you loath operating the manual drain valve, and then you put up with the chance of leaks in the auto drain.

Both Quincy and Champion are having machine work and parts made off shore and assembling in the U.S. It's part of the global economy. Only SB is really entirely made in the U.S. anymore and even that is only for their pumps. The valves, garages, pressure switches, etc. on any compressor are going to be made off shore. Condor is a German company that supplies a lot of pressure switches, but they are made in China. They are just fine. Just about all tanks will be made in the U.S. and the compressor assemblies themselves assembled in the U.S. (pump, motor, tank, and plumbing).
 
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md21722

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Theoctagon said:
Thank you guys for the quick responses and all the info! So it would appear that if i wanted a knock off pump i would be money ahead going with polar air vs the napa compressor. (i figured the napa wasnt some great hidden secret of a compressor but just wasnt totally sure) If i want to get genuine american build quality and heritage its the high end quincy, the SB or a Champion.

I like the idea of having an all american compressor and a 5hp 80 gallon unit would probably be more than enough. The most air i use is blowing off machines that are covered with matted down grass and grease/oil, running impact guns and cut off wheels stuff like that. Will occasionally be running multiple air lines but not frequently. Just want to make sure i have a "futureproofed" purchase so i dont go through this again.
Click to expand...

I think the 5 HP Polar Air may be fine for your needs. If you want something more American but still as quiet as reasonably possible, go with Champion or Saylor Beall depending on how "American" you want it to be. I'd still call and ask your local compressor dealer(s) and see what other small engine shops are happy with. They might give you some extra information that is helpful and all it takes is a phone call. Let us know what you decide!
 
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Theoctagon

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The more i look at cost vs machine maybe i should get a conservative sized polar air and look at my usage in the new shop over the next few years and go from there. They seem to get really good reviews. Those SB and Champions just really are good looking machines.
 
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laser3kw

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I have a small engine repair shop that is getting moved to a larger location
Click to expand...
"small engine repair shop" - are the engines you repair small
or is the engine repair shop (building) small? :headscrat
 
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Theoctagon

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md21722 said:
I think the 5 HP Polar Air may be fine for your needs. If you want something more American but still as quiet as reasonably possible, go with Champion or Saylor Beall depending on how "American" you want it to be. I'd still call and ask your local compressor dealer(s) and see what other small engine shops are happy with. They might give you some extra information that is helpful and all it takes is a phone call. Let us know what you decide!
Click to expand...

The only thing i noticed about the polar air are they lack of a magnetic starter. I thought low rpm motors should really have that. Thoughts?
 
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md21722

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AJ1978

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The Champion will serve you great. I own a Champion, Saylor Beall and OLD Kellogg.

The champion is quiet and reliable. I have the Iron head RV style with a true 5 HP 1725 motor. Centurion Series. Stay away from anything in my opinion with a 3450RPM electric motor.

The Advantage is great as well.

I love my Saylor Beall as well, expensive and to be honest I don't run it hard enough at times...
 
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CompressorPros.com

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Harbor Freight now sells a couple different 5HP. One is made by Atlas Copco, and I'm not sure who makes the other. They have been known to import complete machines.

Just another note concerning NAPA Air Compressors. ABAC is no more, Atlas Copco bought it. NAPA, BelAire, Chicago Pneumatic all come out of the same facility now as Atlas owns all of them.

The big advantage we see with BelAire and CP (two stage) is a clean 2 year warranty that covers everything on the machine. No start up kit to buy and the warranty covers the valves, which many other manufacturers with seemingly longer warranties do not.
 
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md21722

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CompressorPros.com said:
Harbor Freight now sells a couple different 5HP. One is made by Atlas Copco, and I'm not sure who makes the other. They have been known to import complete machines.

Just another note concerning NAPA Air Compressors. ABAC is no more, Atlas Copco bought it. NAPA, BelAire, Chicago Pneumatic all come out of the same facility now as Atlas owns all of them.

The big advantage we see with BelAire and CP (two stage) is a clean 2 year warranty that covers everything on the machine. No start up kit to buy and the warranty covers the valves, which many other manufacturers with seemingly longer warranties do not.
Click to expand...

In our area HF went from the ABAC version to a single stage that was labeled as dual stage, and then went back to the original.

When I say ABAC, I am referring to them as a subsidiary of Atlas Copco. We don't say CP is no more because Atlas Copco owns them ;-)
 
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AJ1978

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If you are buying now, and have the cash flow buy good once, it will last a long time. Also if noise is a concern buy better quality. I cannot stress this enough the faster the pump speed the more noise, the more heat, the more moisture.

I would really suggest looking at the Champion units as I have said earlier. Right now TP tools has the centurion II as I mentioned for 2179.00 item 8550-66ds with free shipping. I have another local compressor shop that sells this same unit a bit cheaper but they don't ship for free.

Also Get a set of vibration pads to set the tank on, this will help with noise as well.

The Champion units have a 5 year pump prorated warranty, but to be honest usually if they fail its in the first year. I never knew they had this until reading recently. I had to bring my champion up from my house to the main shop when the Saylor Beall went down
 
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Theoctagon

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Well with all the input i think i have narrowed it down to either going local with a napa 5hp industrial model or spending the extra 350 on the 5hp saylor beall. The only reason i have ruled out the polar air 5hp is the lack of a magnetic starter and would be within 100 dollars of the napa compressor after shipping.

I am really leaning towards the SB but have to convince the "old man" that its worth the extra coin which shouldnt be too hard. I cant seem to shake having a machine with such heritage and quality backing it.

I will keep you posted with the final choice and hopefully some pictures for good measure.
 
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Radix2

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Theoctagon said:
The only thing i noticed about the polar air are they lack of a magnetic starter. I thought low rpm motors should really have that. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

What is it about a magnetic starter that you think is essential?

Why would it be more important on a low rpm motor?

All it adds is protection from restarting after a power loss and an extra overcurrent check that the motor likely has built in these days anyway. And one can be added at any point if desired.

As far as running the motor, there is no difference, a switch contact is a switch contact.
 
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md21722

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Radix2 said:
What is it about a magnetic starter that you think is essential?

Why would it be more important on a low rpm motor?

All it adds is protection from restarting after a power loss and an extra overcurrent check that the motor likely has built in these days anyway. And one can be added at any point if desired.

As far as running the motor, there is no difference, a switch contact is a switch contact.
Click to expand...

Low RPM motors often have lower speed pumps which in turn are quieter and usually have a longer life. And even if they don't it's often a sign of a higher quality compressor anyway.

Magnetic starters last longer than pressure switches at 5 HP.
 
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AJ1978

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Theoctagon said:
Well with all the input i think i have narrowed it down to either going local with a napa 5hp industrial model or spending the extra 350 on the 5hp saylor beall. The only reason i have ruled out the polar air 5hp is the lack of a magnetic starter and would be within 100 dollars of the napa compressor after shipping.

I am really leaning towards the SB but have to convince the "old man" that its worth the extra coin which shouldnt be too hard. I cant seem to shake having a machine with such heritage and quality backing it.

I will keep you posted with the final choice and hopefully some pictures for good measure.
Click to expand...

IF you are only 350.00 difference then go the Saylor Beall
 
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moriboy

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I bought a Quincy 5HP 80 gallon QT5. It was $2K. It is a great compressor for my application (home shop).
 
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The Tool Tyrant

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md21722 said:
Low RPM motors often have lower speed pumps which in turn are quieter and usually have a longer life. And even if they don't it's often a sign of a higher quality compressor anyway.

Magnetic starters last longer than pressure switches at 5 HP.
Click to expand...

^^ I concur on both statements. The contacts in a pressure switch are very small and can't handle the repetitive starts on a 5 hp or bigger motor.

AJ1978 said:
IF you are only 350.00 difference then go the Saylor Beall
Click to expand...

Again, I concur, if it's down to these two, then go with the S-B. From what I can tell looking at the Napa (industrial) pumps, they look like one of the S-B import knock-offs
 
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WhiffySpark

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Tool Fool said:
Just curious, when you state "They are not quiet" what are you comparing "quiet" to...other pump brands or 'so quiet, I can hear a pin drop'?
Click to expand...

I'm deaf and I can hear them cut on. They are in the back room and I can't hear anyone talking while they're running
 
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