The VISES of Garage Journal

[autopts]

Anybody know if this small vise is a Stanley, if memory serves me right that light insignia is that of the old Stanley tools. Thanks

 

[GETRIDAONE]

PbhJKB,
My FPU 6" is 96 lbs. and the screw was broken in the usual spot. I think when tightening the left side lifts up putting pressure on the front jib. The screw is to close to the corner and it finally cracks. That's my theory

 

[PghJKB]

PbhJKB,
My FPU 6" is 96 lbs. and the screw was broken in the usual spot. I think when tightening the left side lifts up putting pressure on the front jib. The screw is to close to the corner and it finally cracks. That's my theory

Sounds good to me. I can't recall seeing an FPU with a badly bent handle.

I have probably passed up more FPUs than I have bought because of this type of breakage.

JKB

 

[G-ManBart]

The screw on that 34 looks strange. Not a ball end and 2 big washers for spacers

It does look strange. There have been other Reeds with similarly odd combinations that appear to have been that way from the factory. The explanation several people came up with is that they were probably transition vises where they used up the available parts...an old casting set with a new spindle/screw, etc.

I saw that 34 in person, and it appeared all original, and worked properly, so I assume it's some sort of transition model.

 

[G-ManBart]

Since Yost had purchased 3 vise manufacturing companies I am not so sure anyone else made vises for Yost. More research might change this.

I think some of the confusion over who made what comes down partially to how we define "made" or "manufactured".

It seems many companies sold vises that they claimed as their own, but the company didn't have a foundry to cast the main components and we wound up with vises that have different names on the side, but largely identical construction.

I researched foundries in Erie, Pa, and saw Hollands listed, but not Reed. It would be interesting to know if Yost had one in Meadville.

 

[Bcom]

Anybody know if this small vise is a Stanley, if memory serves me right that light insignia is that of the old Stanley tools. Thanks

I just seen a vise like that yesterday but i cant remember what the seller said it was

 

[kwoswalt99]

So do the Boley/Schlegel/Leinen models hold up better? They look stronger.

 

[bluebolt]

I think some of the confusion over who made what comes down partially to how we define "made" or "manufactured".

It seems many companies sold vises that they claimed as their own, but the company didn't have a foundry to cast the main components and we wound up with vises that have different names on the side, but largely identical construction.

I researched foundries in Erie, Pa, and saw Hollands listed, but not Reed. It would be interesting to know if Yost had one in Meadville.

Yes it is hard to tell which vise companies made there products entirely in-house sometimes.

There were foundries in Meadville. Question is did Meadville Vise Company / Barrett Machine and Tool Co which Yost bought the Meadville Vise Co portion from have one? And if we compare Meadville / Barrett vises to a Yost what will we see?

Check out this Barrett monster 8 1/2" wide jaw vise. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1470492&postcount=1

James O. Barrett is someone else in the vise world history to check out in the future. I know he died in 1926, March 19.

Well I need to go back to work LOL. More crumb chasing later!

 

[demoman]

I would say 7 out of 10 that I find have the front corner of the dynamic broken (tail slide vise)

Vises - My Grandpa had one at the farm shop where I grew up. It was his main vise outside of a 6 inch columbian post vise in the old shop. He told me once that the corner broke out on the vise when it was almost new in the late 60's and he just kept using it. I still use it when we work out at the farm. Interesting that they all were a poor casting in that area. I have never found one that was not broke.

 

[SteveL]

Is there any way to date woodworking face vises from Columbian and Crafstman? Tried the Gogoe search route and came up empty.

 

[Outlawmws]

Is there any way to date woodworking face vises from Columbian and Crafstman? Tried the Gogoe search route and came up empty.

Start with coffee somewhere, then maybe dinner and a movie.

Flowers this early might be considered forward.

 

[bl00]

Is there any way to date woodworking face vises from Columbian and Crafstman? Tried the Gogoe search route and came up empty.

Post up some photos and someone will probably have info on them.

 

[GETRIDAONE]

Anybody know if this small vise is a Stanley, if memory serves me right that light insignia is that of the old Stanley tools. Thanks

I don't know what the logo is ?? I have one that appears to be like yours except the number is
12. The second one has the logo and number 28 together and "no" made in USA on the frame. There seems to be a lot of them around though.

 

[Bellaireroad]

It does look strange. There have been other Reeds with similarly odd combinations that appear to have been that way from the factory. The explanation several people came up with is that they were probably transition vises where they used up the available parts...an old casting set with a new spindle/screw, etc.



I saw that 34 in person, and it appeared all original, and worked properly, so I assume it's some sort of transition model.

Quite possible... interesting it has old orange paint that doesn't match the rest of the vise


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[G-ManBart]

Quite possible... interesting it has old orange paint that doesn't match the rest of the vise


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I looked it over pretty well...I'm pretty certain that was just rust, not orange paint.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Vises
Have been working on a theory that there are two separate casting versions of the FPU vises. Am calling them skinny/light and fat/heavy.

Noticed that the shipping weights of some of the EvilPrey listings seemed lighter than my FPUs by amounts that are larger than I would attribute to simple scale differences, packing estimates or scale reading incompetence.

Also noticed was that if you turn them upside down and look at the main casting from the bottom, on the units with the lighter weights you can see the main nut. On the units with the heavier weights you cannot see the main nut.

Cannot determine what the jaw size of your is, but my 125mm weighs in at 55lbs and my 150mm weighs in at 96 lbs.

What is your jaw size and what is the weight? (With my luck yours is a 100mm unit - there is only one screw holding the main nut from the rear, my 125 and 150 have two screws.)

The images are views of the rear and underside of my 125mm and 150mm units.

If you do have a 100mm what is the weight? The skinny units are usually listed around 38 lbs. Have not seem a fat one listed yet.

Thanks




But they do taste a bit netter.....


JKB

This one is a 100mm and is stamped as having a weight of 18.90 Kg (41.6 lbs) and has a solid bottom. It has one screw on the rear.

I also have a 75mm around but I cannot get to it at the moment.

 

[tool_scrounge]

I've had 3 different FPU's and they were all broke in that same spot.

I would say 7 out of 10 that I find have the front corner of the dynamic broken (tail slide vise)



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I believe the reason the reason Bison (FPU) vises are found with the front left corner broken is:

1) The cast iron for the left dovetail is thinner than the cast iron for the right dovetail by about 0.25" due to the thickness of the gib (see picture)

2) The internal corner of the dovetail in the moving jaw is small, which acts as a stress concentration point.

3) The the further the vise is open when clamping something, the higher the force is trying to pry up the moving jaw of the vise due to reduced dovetail engagement.

All total I thing is it a nice design for eliminating slop, but at a price of not being very tolerant of any overloading, especially if the jaws are far open. I believe a regular vise has nominally the same max clamping force until the slide goes into the main casting. Then the max clamping force reduces. On Bison vise the max force reduces as you open it up. If they had extended the base casting dovetail, it would be more similar to a regular vise.


I always suspected this is why Bison put such short handles of small diameter on them.

On a good note, I must be really lucky because I have only heard about broken gibs. All the ones I have seen in person were undamaged.

 

[Bellaireroad]

I looked it over pretty well...I'm pretty certain that was just rust, not orange paint.

Yep, nothing beats being there in person


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[VISEs]

Vises

Have been working on a theory that there are two separate casting versions of the FPU vises. Am calling them skinny/light and fat/heavy.



Noticed that the shipping weights of some of the EvilPrey listings seemed lighter than my FPUs by amounts that are larger than I would attribute to simple scale differences, packing estimates or scale reading incompetence.



Also noticed was that if you turn them upside down and look at the main casting from the bottom, on the units with the lighter weights you can see the main nut. On the units with the heavier weights you cannot see the main nut.



Cannot determine what the jaw size of your is, but my 125mm weighs in at 55lbs and my 150mm weighs in at 96 lbs.



What is your jaw size and what is the weight? (With my luck yours is a 100mm unit - there is only one screw holding the main nut from the rear, my 125 and 150 have two screws.)



The images are views of the rear and underside of my 125mm and 150mm units.



If you do have a 100mm what is the weight? The skinny units are usually listed around 38 lbs. Have not seem a fat one listed yet.



Thanks









But they do taste a bit netter.....





JKB

I'm not in my shop this week so I will give you the data off of this one FPU I have here and follow up with the data on many more next week.

This particular vise has 4" jaws. 101.6mm. And weight is 40.2 pounds.

I recall myself thinking how much heavier these vises are than what they look like.




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[VISEs]

So do the Boley/Schlegel/Leinen models hold up better? They look stronger.

Way way way better! Each of them far superior


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[VISEs]

Show and tell....

Here is a little mixture of THIN cyanoacrylate (super glue) and baking soda.

When you pour baking soda on thin cyanoacrylate it instantly makes a rock hard bonding. I use this method for a plethora of repairs on metal, wood, plastic, etc...


I recommend everyone try it out! Your wife will be pissed off because you took her baking soda and left it in the garage.....




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[MOTORHEAD383]

Hiya guys! Just cleaned up and painted a vise ive been using for some time now. I got it with a property my dad bought any gold. Maybe you could shed some light on what its origins are and how old it is. No its not for sale, its a great vise and a good size for what i need.

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[drivesitfar]

MH: can you post up a few more pictures maybe from all four sides and under your Sawyer vise if it's not mounted yet? my guess is early 1900's and 3 inch wide jaw with maybe a swivel base.

VISES: so you don't like FPU vices? the little 3 inch one i have is maybe one of my favorites for that size vice.

 

[VISEs]

MH: can you post up a few more pictures maybe from all four sides and under your Sawyer vise if it's not mounted yet? my guess is early 1900's and 3 inch wide jaw with maybe a swivel base.



VISES: so you don't like FPU vices? the little 3 inch one i have is maybe one of my favorites for that size vice.

I love FPU vises!! I think they are awesome! I have two of them mounted on workbenches in my shop!


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[kwoswalt99]

VISES: so you don't like FPU vices? the little 3 inch one i have is maybe one of my favorites for that size vice.

I don't think he's ever met a vise he didn't like.

 

[SteveL]

Post up some photos and someone will probably have info on them.

These are the two face vises that I'm trying to date. I restored these a year or so ago and just now getting them installed on my bench. Both are quick release sliders although the work in slightly different ways. The Columbian sides in to the piece being held and then you turn the handle less than one full turn to tighten. To remove, you simply turn the handle counter clock wise a half turn and slide the face out. The Crafstman works about the same but it takes about 1 1/2 turns to tighten. Obviously, the handles are not original as I made them out of cherry and brass. Any help in getting close to the date of manufacture would be appreciated.

 

[bluebolt]

Does the Columbian say Columbian Vise or Columbian Hardware? Hardware is older.

Your Craftsman is not in my 1951 catalog but is in my 1959 catalog. It is not in my 1963 catalog. So in that range.

 

[SteveL]

Does the Columbian say Columbian Vise or Columbian Hardware? Hardware is older.

Your Craftsman is not in my 1951 catalog but is in my 1959 catalog. It is not in my 1963 catalog. So in that range.

The Columbian says Vise & Mfg. Co.

 

[bluebolt]

I think Columbian changed it to the Vise and Mfg Co in the 1920's so later than that.

 

[PghJKB]

This one is a 100mm and is stamped as having a weight of 18.90 Kg (41.6 lbs) and has a solid bottom. It has one screw on the rear.

I also have a 75mm around but I cannot get to it at the moment.

I'm not in my shop this week so I will give you the data off of this one FPU I have here and follow up with the data on many more next week.

This particular vise has 4" jaws. 101.6mm. And weight is 40.2 pounds.

I recall myself thinking how much heavier these vises are than what they look like.

Gentlemen, Thank You!
I gave my 100mm to a cousin of mine before I began to notice the weight differences. He has not been receptive to removing it from his bench, checking the underside and weighing it, yet. A real dupa.

That said, my notes on the EvilPrey listings show an average weight of about 39 pounds for the open bottom castings, have nothing for closed bottom castings.

The fat 75mms average around 28 lbs, have nothing on the skinny ones yet.

JKB

 

[PghJKB]

Hiya guys! Just cleaned up and painted a vise ive been using for some time now. I got it with a property my dad bought any gold. Maybe you could shed some light on what its origins are and how old it is. No its not for sale, its a great vise and a good size for what i need.

The Oswego vise companies were a very tangled web of businesses, much of it revolved around E.W. Fulton. Fulton bought the Oswego Tool Company in 1930 and reorganized it into the INT Corporation - International NuTyp Tool Company. INT produced the NuTyp Vise as well as other vises.

From my research, it looks like E.W. Fulton's vise businesses went into bankruptcy in 1935. This legal notice appeared n a number of Oswego area (Fulton County, New York) papers:

1935 Bankruptcy Notice:
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT for the Northern District of New York in the Matter of International NuTyp Tool Corporation, Bankrupt.
To the creditors of the International NuTyp Tool Corporation, of the City of Oswego, County of Oswego and District aforesaid, a Bankruptcy.
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that on the 23rd day of January 1935 the said International NuTyp Tool Corporation was ???? adjudicated a bankrupt and that the first meeting and hearing of its creditors will be held at the office of Avery H. Wright referee in Bankruptcy Room 3, Oswego City Savings Bank Building, Oswego N.Y. on the 14th day of March, 1935 at 10 o'clock A.M. at which time the said creditors ??? attend, prove their claims, approve a Trustee, examine the bankrupt and transact such other business as may properly come before said meeting.
NOTICE IS ALSO GIVEN that you and each of you are hereby required to show cause at the time and place heretofore mentioned why the business of the above named bankrupt corporation should not be continued under the Trustee hereinafter to be named.
Dated at Oswego, N. Y. this ?? day of March, 1935.
AVERY H. WRIGHT
Referee in Bankruptcy

My guess is that the Oswego Brass and Iron Foundry bought the rights from Fulton's company, took on the name of Sawyer Tool and started producing Fulton's vise line in 1935. There were some ads for the NuTyp (now a Sawyer product) into the early 1940's. Another guess, Sawyer Tool was a causality of WW2.

My research into Sawyer is mostly a dead end. There was a Sawyer Tool of Fitchburg, MA in the early 1900's, but they made precision tools.

VA, Get, bl00 and some of the other research geeks may have better or more complete info.

Due to copyright restrictions, it requires trips to the Carnegie to get any good info after about 1917.

Hope this helps a little.

JKB

 

[va.grouseman]

PghJKB, really good stuff.---It's going in my archives.---Seems info is kind of limited on the Sawyer.---Bret888 has a good post on the NuTYP vise on page 246, post 4917.---Seems that the Boker Knife Co. sold the vises for Atlas.---So Boker was the broker.


Maybe if we compile all the info of all the researchers, we'll come up with an exhaustive history and a timeline.

EDIT------Driveitfar also has a good bit of info on Fulton and Oswego Co.s in the (Vise company manufacturers directory pre 1970's) thread, post 5.


Here's my NuTyp.

 

[Tonellin]

These are the two face vises that I'm trying to date. I restored these a year or so ago and just now getting them installed on my bench. Both are quick release sliders although the work in slightly different ways. The Columbian sides in to the piece being held and then you turn the handle less than one full turn to tighten. To remove, you simply turn the handle counter clock wise a half turn and slide the face out. The Crafstman works about the same but it takes about 1 1/2 turns to tighten. Obviously, the handles are not original as I made them out of cherry and brass. Any help in getting close to the date of manufacture would be appreciated.

Those are absolutely gorgeous...great work on the handles!

 

[blsnelling]

Last night was good to me. I got to meet a super nice guy that goes by the name @Tarnished. Then there was the plus of taking home a couple of 4" Wilton 9400 bullets.

When I left there, I made my way to another gentleman's place and picked up a real nice Wilton C0 and a Columbian 604. He had a bunch of other vises I didn't know much about.

 

[sms1974]

Anybody ever seen a worn out Wilton 450n before? This is a first for me...

What it should look like...

somethings missing there...

never seen a spindle worn like that...

rest of it looks pretty good....

Any one out there got a 450n for parts??? Or need parts???

 

[Outlawmws]

Clean it up and put in a bronze bushing...

 

[Bcom]

Blsnelling--- heck dude you just got started on vises and you are finding stuff real quick! Good job man! Those are cool photos

 

[meatsis]

Anybody ever seen a worn out Wilton 450n before? This is a first for me...

What it should look like...

somethings missing there...

never seen a spindle worn like that...

rest of it looks pretty good....

Any one out there got a 450n for parts??? Or need parts???

Ive seen more broken wiltons than any other brand vise out there. But Ive never seen one worn like that. I don't even know how that would happen considering how the rest of the vise looks pretty clean.

 

[va.grouseman]

Blesnelling, appears you've been at this for quite some time.---And a very nice haul to add to the herd.---Nice collection, but I suspect you haven't shown us everything.

 

[blsnelling]

Blsnelling--- heck dude you just got started on vises and you are finding stuff real quick! Good job man! Those are cool photos

Thanks

Blesnelling, appears you've been at this for quite some time.---And a very nice haul to add to the herd.---Nice collection, but I suspect you haven't shown us everything.

I just bought my first a few weeks ago.