Craftsman Block motor Bench Grinders - What's the Fuss (with resource information)

[M_George]

Is $50 a good price for this 6in 1/2 hp block grinder?

 

[torqueman2002]

Is $50 a good price for this 6in 1/2 hp block grinder?

The price of a Block is somewhat subjective, based on the following (not necessarily in order of importance/value/cost).

• Condition
• Horse Power
• Commercial/Industrial
• Location - this has a Lot to do with availability, and therefore price. (The price is variable too. Like in LA, I see a number of Blocks listed (1-HP in need of a restore, but missing HD base $120; 1/3-HP missing LH guard ... $100; 1/3-HP pre-Block for $130). In SE Michigan, these same Blocks would be 1/3 to 1/2 less expensive.)

So, if it looks good, has no free play in the arbor, no cracked cast pieces, starts and runs OK - it's a safe buy.

Keep in mind the cost of the following:

• wheels/stones
• bearings
• power cord
• power switch
• electrical terminal cleaning and repairs
• paint, if you choose

The above updates will give you a grinder that should last for decades of home shop use, for most things around the garage.

I hope this is helpful.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to get back with me.

I guess there's another point I'd like to leave you with.

It's up to each buyer to put a value on the purchase.

If you are flipping it/them, you need to keep costs as low as possible.

If you are keeping it to use, then it's your budget and valuation.

If you are after a 'You ****!' - you never know when you will stumble upon one.

Best of luck.

Mike

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5563777&postcount=8055

 

[EOC_Jason]

Is $50 a good price for this 6in 1/2 hp block grinder?

It's only a good deal if you need it...

Like torqueman said, there are a lot of variables to decide if it's a good deal or not, most being the overall condition (paint is cheap, but parts can be expensive or non-existent)...

Where I live, 99% of bench grinders are the cheap HF or similar. I was lucky to find a nice 1/2HP CMan that amazingly enough was complete but looked pretty well used. A lot of scraping and some paint and it's in good enough condition for me. I just ordered a set of 3 stones (7") off eBay for $40 which I think was a good price. They passed the ring test but I haven't had a chance to install them yet.

I like to compare things to what a modern price is... Do you want to spend $50 on HF junk, or a solid piece of USA made history that will outlast you?

 

[M_George]

Thanks for the tips, I'll look it over and make an offer. I have a Chinese grinder now, but want a nice vintage USA one for the garage. I got my inspiration looking over the posts and seeing the great work the folks here have done restoring the old grinders.

 

[Cypherian]

Can some one who ..remembers lol what is the proper placement for these spacers tabs into wire wheel or out toward flange washer. I do not have a manual the one on VM is not exactly my manual but the spacers are not the same. I think these are for wheels with open centers. But they were on when I got it but can't remember how and no pictures;(.

Cypher

 

[EOC_Jason]

Can some one who ..remembers lol what is the proper placement for these spacers tabs into wire wheel or out toward flange washer. I do not have a manual the one on VM is not exactly my manual but the spacers are not the same. I think these are for wheels with open centers. But they were on when I got it but can't remember how and no pictures

That look more like an arbor for wheels that have a larger center hole. Former owner probably just needed a spacer and that's what he had. I typically use washers but if that works then go with it. I would just see which way it feels more secure, but don't over-tighten as those little tabs can probably bend.

 

[Cypherian]

That look more like an arbor for wheels that have a larger center hole. Former owner probably just needed a spacer and that's what he had. I typically use washers but if that works then go with it. I would just see which way it feels more secure, but don't over-tighten as those little tabs can probably bend.

That is my thought too , those tabs won't take any pressure I think I will just get some flat spacer washers and go with that and not use these. I have seen the larger center wheels and used them on grinders that have arbors / spacers for them just never used one on a small grinder .

Oh and it is a 397.19450

Cypher

 

[torqueman2002]

That is my thought too , those tabs won't take any pressure I think I will just get some flat spacer washers and go with that and not use these. I have seen the larger center wheels and used them on grinders that have arbors / spacers for them just never used one on a small grinder .

Oh and it is a 397.19450

Cypher

I have those larger flanges with the tabs on a couple of larger 8"? brass wheels. They are a light press fit into the brass wheels with corresponding center holes.

I agree with you both, the PO used what was at hand.

I've used large thick washers of appropriate dia. for spacers.

Graingers does sell Arbor Spacer, 1/2 ID, 0.118-0.236, # 31161816. About $1.50.

If you are using the flanges for grinding stones, there is a specification for proper OD, based on arbor and stone dimensions.

I can't recall exactly where I've seen it, however.

 

[krcoomer]

I am curious about a 315 model Sears grinder. Have not seen the 315 number anywhere on here. CL posting is $15, but it is about 50 miles away so not sure the 100 mile round trip is worth it for a 5" model. Housing looks to be aluminum. Missing eye shields and one tool rest. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Cypherian]

I am curious about a 315 model Sears grinder. Have not seen the 315 number anywhere on here. CL posting is $15, but it is about 50 miles away so not sure the 100 mile round trip is worth it for a 5" model. Housing looks to be aluminum. Missing eye shields and one tool rest. Any thoughts or suggestions?

I would pass, missing parts, fuel costs make it probably 15 bucks in gas, plus the cost of the grinder. I imagine if you keep hunting you can find a 6" 1/3 or 1/4 hp for about 30 bucks locally or at a garage sale. But if you really have to have that model for collection etc well is it worth it to you is the only question.

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-number/31519641/0247/0721000.html

http://vintagemachinery.org/Craftsman/manufacturers.aspx?sort=1
315 Diehl Mfg Co (portable power tools, prior to Ryobi)

Cypher

 

[krcoomer]

I would pass, missing parts, fuel costs make it probably 15 bucks in gas, plus the cost of the grinder. I imagine if you keep hunting you can find a 6" 1/3 or 1/4 hp for about 30 bucks locally or at a garage sale. But if you really have to have that model for collection etc well is it worth it to you is the only question.

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-number/31519641/0247/0721000.html

http://vintagemachinery.org/Craftsman/manufacturers.aspx?sort=1
315 Diehl Mfg Co (portable power tools, prior to Ryobi)

Cypher

Thanks for the response. I knew it was not the holy grail, but also didn't want to let the opportunity pass me up. Looking to upgrade from my no-name and was trying to figure out the value. I have had pretty good luck with estate sales over the years on other machinery, just not finding a block.

 

[Cypherian]

Thanks for the response. I knew it was not the holy grail, but also didn't want to let the opportunity pass me up. Looking to upgrade from my no-name and was trying to figure out the value. I have had pretty good luck with estate sales over the years on other machinery, just not finding a block.

This the one you were looking at : https://louisville.craigslist.org/tls/5984329387.html

I found this one ..
https://mattoon.craigslist.org/tls/6000007908.html


Not knowing the area I was just poking around on CL in the general vicinity .

Fleabay has 2 I would consider though either or would be a 100 ish do to shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-1...083483?hash=item1a24f3705b:g:oKIAAOSwnHZYkhg1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cra...031113?hash=item41bdbb1e89:g:boMAAOSw241Yh2oD



Cypher

 

[krcoomer]

This the one you were looking at : https://louisville.craigslist.org/tls/5984329387.html

I found this one ..
https://mattoon.craigslist.org/tls/6000007908.html


Not knowing the area I was just poking around on CL in the general vicinity .

Fleabay has 2 I would consider though either or would be a 100 ish do to shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-1...083483?hash=item1a24f3705b:g:oKIAAOSwnHZYkhg1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cra...031113?hash=item41bdbb1e89:g:boMAAOSw241Yh2oD



Cypher

Cypher: That is the one I had seen. I appreciate the other ones you shared. I have been watching and figure I am looking at $80-100 plus a new pair of wheels. I have a no-name that works for the time being so I can be a little picky. Also, next month we will be going to flea market heaven (Florida) for a visit with the F-I-L who has a flea market schedule for me to go with him. Holding out a little hope to find something there and you never know what the next estate sale will have.

I was doing some work in a gentleman's basement a few weeks ago and saw a pristine 397. I know the family and he has 4 sons so I doubt I will have a shot when the time comes, but you never know. Filed it in the back of my head because I know how the man treats his tools and I would love to know the rest of what he is hiding down there.

Thanks for the info.

 

[ndfan6464]

So I know this thread is 2 years old but I just came across it. Man what a ton of information that's posted on here. Thank you for taking the time to do it. I just bought a Block grinder and plan on cleaning it up. Doesn't look in to bad of shape as is. I have a question. Mine is a 397.19391and I was looking for a manual for it and could only find one for a 397.19390. what's the difference between the two? I downloaded the manual for the 19390 and it looks identical to the 19391. The pictures are of the one I bought.

 

[ndfan6464]

So found a picture of the label on a 19390 and the only difference is the design code. It says C3089 and mine the 19391 says design C3554. What's the difference?

 

[torqueman2002]

So I know this thread is 2 years old but I just came across it. Man what a ton of information that's posted on here. Thank you for taking the time to do it. I just bought a Block grinder and plan on cleaning it up. Doesn't look in to bad of shape as is. I have a question. Mine is a 397.19391and I was looking for a manual for it and could only find one for a 397.19390. what's the difference between the two? I downloaded the manual for the 19390 and it looks identical to the 19391. The pictures are of the one I bought.

You are welcome. This thread is an attempt to 'distill' the information in the other, older Block thread. let's see your craftsman block grinders - --> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157794

I've got to agree, they are probably the same grinder, with minor differences in part numbers.

Because most OEM parts are not available, it is probably a moot point.

Here's a label for the 387.19390.

The specs match yours.

You might find the following 2 sites useful to check what parts, if any, are different between the 2 models. That is, if the sites even list the models.
SearsPartsDirect website link - --> http://www.searspartsdirect.com/
eReplacementParts website link - --> http://www.ereplacementparts.com/craftsman-grinder-parts-c-158286_159871.html

 

[torqueman2002]

Ha! You posted the same picture, while I was putting together my reply.

Good work.

 

[ndfan6464]

Ha! You posted the same picture, while I was putting together my reply.

Good work.

HAHAH sorry..Lol... I appreciate the helpful information. I have a lot of reading to do on this thread. Blows me away how much you all know and have dug up.

 

[smalltown]

Brought home a Craftsman 397.19581 block grinder this last Wednesday. In my haste to post I posted to the heading "let's see your Craftsman block grinder". I would think members would be looking at both titles, but I'm not sure.
So I hope it's ok to also post my photos here?

Today I searched Sears Parts for an owners manual: no luck there or anywhere else. Might anybody have a copy?

The original pedestal stands are they very scarce?

Honestly I had never seen a block grinder other than on Garage Journal. Posters spoke so highly of them that I keep my eyes open. When I saw it at the sellers my jaw almost dropped, and the condition just added to my delight. Once I had paid the seller I was again surprised at the heft as I picked up my new grinder to walk back to my car.

 

[torqueman2002]

Hi town, I'll reply in Red below.

Brought home a Craftsman 397.19581 block grinder this last Wednesday. In my haste to post I posted to the heading "let's see your Craftsman block grinder". I would think members would be looking at both titles, but I'm not sure. I think a lot do, but there's a lot more traffic/posting on the original Block thread - "let's see your Craftsman block grinder". I started this thread to condense some of the posts over there to a place that can be a resource of links etc ...
So I hope it's ok to also post my photos here? Certainly!

Today I searched Sears Parts for an owners manual: no luck there or anywhere else. Might anybody have a copy?
I found a copy of an owners manual for 1/3-HP m-397.19580 at VM (vintagemachinery). You can down load it free there or PM me your eMail and I'll shoot you a copy.
Sorry, I too have not found a copy for m-397.19581, but there may be no real difference in parts that are still available. You might be able to do a pn comparison between the 2 models on Sears Parts and/or eReplacementParts.

The original pedestal stands are they very scarce?
They are less common than the Blocks of course, and eBay prices can fetch more than some Blocks. But even in the rustiest/crustiest condition, they clean up great. I've yet to see one broken, but I suppose if it was dropped the CI base or top could crack/break.

Honestly I had never seen a block grinder other than on Garage Journal. Posters spoke so highly of them that I keep my eyes open. When I saw it at the sellers my jaw almost dropped, and the condition just added to my delight. Once I had paid the seller I was again surprised at the heft as I picked up my new grinder to walk back to my car.
Yes, that is what sets them apart from other grinders. "People always want to know what makes these things {CM Block grinders} so special; here's the reason. Look at those field windings. That is some VERY thick copper wire. When compared to a modern Chinese winding, these look GIGANTIC. The imports use very thin field wire. This is what makes these "block motors" so darn powerful and long lasting." Source - http://tinyurl.com/0-5-HP-CM-Block-Motor-FINISHED

Publication Reprints --> http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=222&tab=3
How to cross-check which parts are interchangeable --> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5504167&postcount=7840

Thanks for posting and congratulations on your Block grinder.

 

[ndfan6464]

So what's a "decent" buying price for the Craftsman stand? I found one on eBay for I believe $150. Needed some work due to rust but didn't look to bad. But curious as the hunt for one is on.

 

[torqueman2002]

So what's a "decent" buying price for the Craftsman stand? I found one on eBay for I believe $150. Needed some work due to rust but didn't look to bad. But curious as the hunt for one is on.

If you want an OEM CM cast iron stand for aesthetic reasons, I think this post about Block grinder prices applies to a certain extent.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5563777&postcount=8055

I've bought CM grinder stands for as little as $40 to as much as $90, in varying conditions.

I have sold them for around $75, a few $$ more for sand blasting. Shipping is done by USPS or FedEx and is about as follows. (April 28, 2016)
$56.76 FedEx End of day (4 Business Days), 2 packages (14"x14"x14" @ 21#, 36" x 9" girth @ 9#)
$ 6.35 Twist & Lock Mailing Tube; includes 6% Sales Tax
$ 4.23 Box - 14"x14"x14"; includes 6% Sales Tax
$10.59 1/2 Roll of Bubble Wrap; includes 6% Sales Tax

I don't have any CM stands for sale, sorry.

However; if you want a good sturdy stand, there are some to choose from. Here is a Baldor grinder I have with a nice CI sturdy stand, I don't know the brand or model - sorry.

Here's a sturdy looking stand at NorthernTool.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200403067_200403067

Mike

 

[ndfan6464]

Thanks for the information torqueman. I've read your post a few time in regards to prices. Just didn't know if that would also kind of apply to the stand. I really try to keep the era as close to possible. So I guess a newer stand will have to do for now or I'll just fabricate one.

I've been on a mission to restore and keep the history alive like you all have. I am just starting out so learning as I go.

 

[torqueman2002]

6464 - you're welcome. These Blocks have a way of inserting themselves into your (at least my, hehe) favor.

I like their robustness and simple to work on construction. It's kind of like restoring a good hammer.

Patience has served me well, a stand will most likely show up under a Block - and there you go, another Block to use!

Best regards.
Mike

 

[bubinga]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah, you guys got me going on these, well, Not like Frank and his 150's..........I have 2
because after lurking here a while, I found a as new one, on OEM stand for $125.00.
Really, my first look at them on paper, they just didn't have that Old heavy duty look like a old delta, or an old Baldor, or even an old 150 Drill press.
But they really have proved to be a sweet grinder(s)
My 2nd was a 1/2 hp, paid $30.00 for that, with (well both really) working OEM craftsman lights.
2nd grinder trip, was aggravation getting there, guy ringing my cell phone, (No Blue tooth) Had to sneak across and go the other way, at a Turnpike entrance,
well, then I got with the times, and learned to use my GPS built into my Moto G.
(I think I was worried about Data, as it's a tracfone, But it doesn't use much, now that I limited all my back ground Apps data usage, to limit when on data. Also, set to update Apps only when on Wi-Fi.
those background B/S can really **** up the Data if you're not aware of it.....lol.)

 

[bubinga]

Damn Torqueman2002, bubble wrap is that much $$$$?
What is the 2002 in your handle BTY?
Is Torqueman something you just made up?....................lol.................(not really funny)

 

[bubinga]

It's only a good deal if you need it...


I like to compare things to what a modern price is... Do you want to spend $50 on HF junk, or a solid piece of USA made history that will outlast you?

a solid piece of USA made history that will outlast Me.

 

[bubinga]

So what's a "decent" buying price for the Craftsman stand? I found one on eBay for I believe $150. Needed some work due to rust but didn't look to bad. But curious as the hunt for one is on.

Depends how bad you want it.
Not to rub it in, but I got a whole grinder, as new, on OEM stand, for $125.00, and about $30.00 gas at the time.
Really around here, I haven't seen too many of those stands in the wild here.

 

[torqueman2002]

I'm in Red, below.

Damn Torqueman2002, bubble wrap is that much $$$$?
I know, and all of that sh*t I've popped and thrown away.

What is the 2002 in your handle BTY?
It was the MY of my Pontiac GTP.

Is Torqueman something you just made up?....................lol.................(not really funny)
Well, it's a bit of a nod to torque that I went for when I modded my original 350 '84 Vette and then the 383 stroker motor that replaced it, and I tend to Torque some people off!

a solid piece of USA made history that will outlast Me.

Depends how bad you want it.
Not to rub it in, but I got a whole grinder, as new, on OEM stand, for $125.00, and about $30.00 gas at the time.
Really around here, I haven't seen too many of those stands in the wild here.
They can be scarce.

 

[ndfan6464]

@toruqeman, the section you did on quench trays. Will either one, the small or large work on the block grinders? Mine doesn't have one and wanted to get one.

 

[torqueman2002]

@toruqeman, the section you did on quench trays. Will either one, the small or large work on the block grinders? Mine doesn't have one and wanted to get one.

Yes, either 1 will fit in the 'knock out' hole.

I've only found the larger (534436227) one available, however.

Price: $22.16 http://www.searspartsdirect.com/part-number/534436227/0071/358.html
Price: $33.69 http://www.ereplacementparts.com/quench-tray-p-972856.html

 

[ndfan6464]

Yes, either 1 will fit in the 'knock out' hole.

I've only found the larger (534436227) one available, however.

Price: $22.16 http://www.searspartsdirect.com/part-number/534436227/0071/358.html
Price: $33.69 http://www.ereplacementparts.com/quench-tray-p-972856.html

Thank you for the quick reply. Crazy how one is almost $11 dollars more. Just ordered the one from Sears. Thanks again.

 

[torqueman2002]

Thank you for the quick reply. Crazy how one is almost $11 dollars more. Just ordered the one from Sears. Thanks again.

YW.

I don't know why the difference in $$.

The one I posted came from eReplacements when the price was cheaper than Sears.

It will be interesting to see what, if any, differences there are between the 2.

 

[grind_this]

I just picked up a 397.19340 this morning for $30. I've been trolling CL for weeks now waiting for a US made grinder, and when this one popped up, I googled the model number, which led me here and possibly my new grinder obsession

Cleaning this puppy up now, and it seems to be in awesome shape.

Anyway, I'm wondering what you guys are doing for getting stones for the 1/2" arbor. I was a little disappointed to see MSC and McMaster don't have much in the 6", 1/2" arbor size.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Anyway, I'm wondering what you guys are doing for getting stones for the 1/2" arbor. I was a little disappointed to see MSC and McMaster don't have much in the 6", 1/2" arbor size.

1/2" Arbor is the common size for 6" & 7"... McMaster should have a decent selection... Personally I just go on eBay, probably about as cheap as you are going to get and any kind you want. But unless you have extreme patience and don't mind shimming and testing for an hour or more, get a quality norton wheel. Otherwise the vibration will drive you nuts.

 

[Outlawmws]

Most stones require a set of sleeves to center them as they are made to also fit the larger arbors. I think 1" is sort of standard minimum IIR.,

see the blue piece in the center of this one? its series of sleeves for 1/2", 5/8", 3/4"...

 

[torqueman2002]

Jason and Outlawmws have it covered, however check the following link for links to Enco, McMaster, and MSC.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5303162&postcount=7364

The link is to another thread on CM Block grinder: "let's see your craftsman block grinders".


BTW - I prefer Norton and use arbor adapters for 5/8" & 1/2" shafts.

 

[grind_this]

I figured I was missing something obvious. So from your link, sounds like the Enco will come with inserts by default?

And what do you guys suggest for dressing? I've only used a star wheel, but see most of the guys on youtube using new fangled carbide deals.

Thanks for answering my noob questions. I've spent plenty of time on the grinder making lathe tool bits, but it was at the community college and the grinders were always ready to go.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Don't assume, if you are unsure email or call... Some will come with plastic reducers, some won't... They are just a dollar or two to buy separate though.

I have both a desmond huntington 0 star wheel dresser to clean my wheels, and a diamond-impregnated bar (cheap on ebay) that can shape a wheel (so if you get one that isn't perfectly round or you need a curve or angle for some reason). The Desmond I got from Mcmaster carr, they also have spare wheels.

 

[grind_this]

One more question, I swear

It came with 3/4", but looks like there is room for a 1" wide wheel, will that work?