To attic truss or not

[sdo]

Still in the dream phase of planning my detached garage build. I am estimating a size of no more than 1200 sq ft. (30 x 40). I am going back and forth about attic trusses. The biggest concerns against are cost and some loss of floor space with interior steps (I am in MN). The main reason I want them is initially just for easily accessed additional storage, but the option to finish it later into more of a usable space for hobbies, etc. Right now I have storage trusses in my attached garage, but the space is only accessible from a ladder and its a pain in the **** getting anything in/out...not doing that again. Anyone have and advice that's either done attic trusses, or not and regretted it, let me hear your thoughts please.

 

[BillK]

Biggest mistake I made when building by detached garage was not using attic trusses I Kick myself every day over it. The slight additional cost and the very small amount of space lost to the stairs would have been well worth it over the years.

 

[BMW Rider]

The storage you gain will more than make up for the floor space given to the stairs.

 

[Kaizen]

I axed the attic trusses for two reasons. First is i am of the firm belief more storage just created more ****. Second was my code dept said I would have to do full footers and walls if I had them or a second floor of any type. That was another six to ten grand. I like the idea of another space aka man cave or for other family to get away. Not sure it's worth the cost


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[Budman01]

Definitely, if you can afford the attic trusses, do it, using 'floor" truss bottom cord for max true weight loads. Stairs on work bench side/end straight line 'C' shape(can't draw), using under stairs for storage. Or same style stairs going from inside to outside of garage(inclosed)......we have sooo many ways to treat you....you're bound to like one of them.
Pick your truss manufacturer's brain they will know, or, pick another manufacturer

 

[sdo]

I axed the attic trusses for two reasons. First is i am of the firm belief more storage just created more ****. Second was my code dept said I would have to do full footers and walls if I had them or a second floor of any type. That was another six to ten grand. I like the idea of another space aka man cave or for other family to get away. Not sure it's worth the cost

I believe this may be true for me, or at a minimum I need an engineers stamp on the design. Because I am in Minnesota and our annual temp swings from -20 f in winter to 90+ in summer, I am somewhat resigned to having full footers. Its not absolutely required, but I don't like inviting problems. I'd say your 6 to 10 grand estimate is entirely accurate.

 

[ddawg16]

Better to have them and not need them.....than to need them and not have them.

 

[66Caprice]

Do you have space outside the garage to put the stairs?

 

[sdo]

Definitely, if you can afford the attic trusses, do it, using 'floor" truss bottom cord for max true weight loads. Stairs on work bench side/end straight line 'C' shape(can't draw), using under stairs for storage. Or same style stairs going from inside to outside of garage(inclosed)......we have sooo many ways to treat you....you're bound to like one of them.
Pick your truss manufacturer's brain they will know, or, pick another manufacturer

I will do that, my local yard also owns a truss plant in the area, and they have a very good rep. They supplied all the trusses for my home approx. 12 years ago.

One constraint I have with zoning is 25' max height. Which with a 10/12 pitch roof I may be just on the edge or slightly above assuming 30' wide. I don't want to have to sacrifice too much ceiling height in the garage to stay under 25'. My only work around at that point is to go slightly narrower with the building until my peak is <25'

 

[Charlie51]

Do it. You won't regret it.

 

[sdo]

Do you have space outside the garage to put the stairs?

I do, I just have been told by several people in MN with the snow and ice, you will regret having access from the outside. Think I can probably see their point.

 

[Jamie V]

What is the truss spacing with and without the attic truss option? My pole barn has the regular trusses 4' on center. If I went with attic trusses I would have had to go 24" or 16" on center (I can't remember) so not only are the trusses more money each I would have doubled the number of them.

Can you use that money and just go higher ceiling and build a loft area instead?

 

[38Chevy454]

What is your roof pitch? At 30 ft, unless you have some pretty steep pitch, the height you gain will be minimal. Let's assume 4/12 pitch, so 15 ft x 4 inches/ft = 5 ft max clearance at the center, and less as the roofs slopes to the sides. But it is really less than that since you have to account for the height of the truss boards.

Yes you still gain some storage space, but it will be tight clearance for you up there.

 

[Budman01]

I do, I just have been told by several people in MN with the snow and ice, you will regret having access from the outside. Think I can probably see their point.

Enclosed stairwell is recommended, can brace to foundation, or cantilever from sidewall.
Assumed garage ceiling '10, floor trusses 24", attic ceiling height 8', 30' truss @10/12, 13'ish=Total of 33'ish.....
Floor trusses may be deeper depending on your loading, attic ceiling height may adjust depending, 9/12 pitch could save +- 2'.......a good truss designer is valuable..

 

[readhead]

I know truss's are the most common way to build a roof but there is another option. Roofs have been stick framed for centuries. If you are working by yourself or with a buddy this may actually be a cheaper solution. I don't know what the building looks like and it may not be practical.

 

[Jamie V]

Wats the code there for roof pitch with snow loads?

 

[finn]

Storage trusses are an acceptable compromise to me.. I'm at a point where I really don't want to be climbing stairs or ladders to get to a storage area. Storage trusses and folding stairs are cheap enough that I justify them for light, rarely used items.

I would rather spend the attic truss money on a simple lean to for storage use.

 

[sdo]

What is your roof pitch? At 30 ft, unless you have some pretty steep pitch, the height you gain will be minimal. Let's assume 4/12 pitch, so 15 ft x 4 inches/ft = 5 ft max clearance at the center, and less as the roofs slopes to the sides. But it is really less than that since you have to account for the height of the truss boards.

Yes you still gain some storage space, but it will be tight clearance for you up there.

I'd be looking at 10/12 pitch, and I'd want 8' ceiling at the center of the attic. I'm a cad guy so I did lay it out, and if I keep the ceiling height under 10' in the garage, the lower chord of the attic truss 12 to 14 inch depth, I can squeak under 25' max height at 28' wide.

If I did regular floor trusses then hand framed the roof, I'd need at least 24" depth floor trusses and all of a sudden I'm above 25' height limit.

Believe me.... I feel like I have thought through most options. I realized I need to stop thinking and make a decision so I can get building. I over-think by nature... its who I am.

 

[ForceFed70]

You need to really think about how you'll use the space.

Stairs was a problem for me. Especially with 12' ceiling, that's a lot of staircase.

I chose to put them outside. Not worried about snow/ice - I go up there like once a week. I also wanted the flexibility of putting an apartment or finished living space up there someday.

If I was only planning to use the space for storage, I'd change things up. I'd look very closely at scissor trusses and a mezzanine instead of attic trusses. Cheaper, easier access (less stairs), etc.

 

[sdo]

Wats the code there for roof pitch with snow loads?

I don't think there is a stipulation as long as its designed for the snow load. In this area, 99% of roofs are truss design and most commonly you see 10/12 or 12/12 pitch roofs when there is an attic truss involved. I think when the building dept. looks at the print and sees you plan for trusses, he assumes they are designed and built by a qualified truss plant.

 

[-Brent-]

I've seen lots of creative uses for the space beneath the stairs from storage drawers built into the area below the first flight to a location for a compressor and even putting a small bathroom (depending on your configuration). It doesn't have to be a complete waste of space.


I hear you on the attic stairs being difficult for bringing items up and down.

Also, even though garage set-ups don't rank high on resale value, I think an attic (with stairs) would help more than hinder, for sure.

 

[Jamie V]

I don't think there is a stipulation as long as its designed for the snow load. In this area, 99% of roofs are truss design and most commonly you see 10/12 or 12/12 pitch roofs when there is an attic truss involved. I think when the building dept. looks at the print and sees you plan for trusses, he assumes they are designed and built by a qualified truss plant.

The reason I asked is here in southern NJ I only had to have a 4/12 pitch. If you went with a higher ceiling height (like 16') and a lower roof pitch you can end up with the same peak height but enough space to build an area that's raised inside.

This gives you the idea what I mean


That way your storage area can be conditioned (if you condition the main garage).

I wish I did something like that in mine.

 

[2oolhound]

I have a very meagre garage but the attic is priceless. Originally I'd intended to have an electronics bench up there, something I don't do much of so running up the stairs occasionally wouldn't have been a big deal as a trade off to have that equipment occupying space in the main work area. As it's turned out the low end is open for 6 feet and there is a winch in the top rafters I can hoist stuff up there with. It is now used mainly for steel storage for pipe, angle iron and tubing, all of which is slid in and out from the open end so I'm rarely going up and down the stairs. The open end is the end the doors are on so loading right off the truck through the open doors up to the attic is very convenient.

As far as the tall end though, yeah I understand what others have said about the trap of storing stuff. I've got stuff up there I haven't looked at in 7 years. I would have been ahead to have disposed of it way back then and put in the electronics bench.

Regardless I'm extremely happy to have that storage up there and would be lost without it.

 

[Garage Dog]

sdo - FWIW, I used room trusses on my garage and was glad I did.

If you have the garage on CAD, send it over to the truss company, tell them you want the truss set bid with standard trusses and room trusses. Ask their opinion about different options, load rating options and corresponding lower cord sizes, how large an area will you get with 8' ceiling height, foot print vs. roof pitch to stay under 25ft, etc and make your decision from there.

The truss engineers are designing truss packages all day every day and can be an excellent resource if you just call up and ask for a 30 min meeting to discuss options based on your plans.

Don't forget to consider window and door cost for your new space if you want natural light.

Good Luck

GD

 

[Budman01]

Post #22 works by giving one bay with 10' or more ceiling, allowing for a lift....
Do 9' on balance of building or whatever it takes to be under code.

Another way is 10' walls 1st floor, trusses built in one piece utilizing floor truss as bottom cord, maximize overall height to desired......start second floor walls at 6'+-, leaving about 17'+- open area......you may be able to incorporate the suggested second floor walls into the truss design and use a lesser bottom cord (2x12,,,laminated beam)
I still say "find a good truss manufacturer, we have so many ways to treat you, you're bound to like one of them"

 

[tomroblee]

A dozen years ago I had a 36' x 64' rural building built. It was one half garage/shop and one half living quarters (one bedroom apartment) on the first floor.

My builder talked me into using 12/12 pitch attic trusses "just in case I might ever want to expand". That gave me an 18' wide room upstairs with 8' flat ceilings.

Once the building was framed, we discussed options. He suggested that if I ever wanted to finish the second floor, it would be easier to install the flooring while the end of the building was still open (rather than trying to carry sheets of heavy plywood up a stairway. I agreed to the idea. The builder then mentioned that it would also be a whole lot easier to do the same with the drywall. Of course, you can't install the drywall until the insulation, wiring, and plumbing is done. We bit the bullet and just had him finish the second floor.

The stairs did take up a lot of space---right where we didn't want to lose it. If you are getting older, plan for wide stairs and make them as low pitch as possible (even though that takes up even more space.)

If my building was only 30' wide and I was faced with a height limitation, I would certainly consider the alternative of a larger footprint and forget the second floor.

If I was set on a second floor, I would certainly consider other truss options. Several years ago there was a thread that used a different type of truss for the second floor. It looked like a great idea to me.

 

[Voi]

Skimmed over the thread so I apologize if this option has already been mentioned.

Attic trusses with a flatter pitch and a raised heal. You'll have more width with decent headroom.

Here is a picture and thread:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117074

 

[Notgrownup]

Hell 30x40 I would do attic trusses...I built 24x24 and that would be pushing it but your size, for sure.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

The reason I asked is here in southern NJ I only had to have a 4/12 pitch. If you went with a higher ceiling height (like 16') and a lower roof pitch you can end up with the same peak height but enough space to build an area that's raised inside.

This gives you the idea what I mean


That way your storage area can be conditioned (if you condition the main garage).

I wish I did something like that in mine.

Man, I like the mezzanine system in this pic. Scrap the steps for a vrc and a batpole .


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[Jamie V]

I have two friends with setups like this and it's the way to go for sure.

 

[n20junkie]

I was building with a foundation either way. Attic trusses were a no brainer. It's 600sq/ft of space that can be used for so many things. I think not doing attic trusses is a waste of space IMHO.

 

[HotrodHR]

Regardless of truss system you choose I would definitely push for walls taller than 10' (ceiling height). My shop is 12.5' ceiling height and I wish I would have gone taller for my lift...

 

[MagKarl]

I'd consider the option of dropping the slope down a bit if you want to be able to walk the roof. Mine's an 8 and that's still walkable. You can add dormers to increase the square footage and get natural light with windows. Slope can be anything you want, you don't have to jump form 8/10/12, etc. Make your plans work for you.

 

[rburke65]

I debated about attic trusses and I am happy that I did. Lots of extra space for the added money. You won't regret it,

 

[Stuart in MN]

I axed the attic trusses for two reasons. First is i am of the firm belief more storage just created more ****. Second was my code dept said I would have to do full footers and walls if I had them or a second floor of any type. That was another six to ten grand. I like the idea of another space aka man cave or for other family to get away. Not sure it's worth the cost

I believe this may be true for me, or at a minimum I need an engineers stamp on the design. Because I am in Minnesota and our annual temp swings from -20 f in winter to 90+ in summer, I am somewhat resigned to having full footers. Its not absolutely required, but I don't like inviting problems. I'd say your 6 to 10 grand estimate is entirely accurate.

That's interesting - I didn't need stamped drawings for my garage in Minneapolis, although that was 20 years ago and I haven't paid attention to any changes since then. I wasn't required to have full footers either, my 24 x 40 with attic trusses is on a slab and it's been just fine. I rarely see garages in my neighborhood that are built with full footers.

I don't recall the price difference exactly, but while the storage trusses were more expensive it wasn't all that much compared to conventional trusses...I seem to remember it was a matter of a few hundred dollars.

One other thing - my attic space is fine for storage but the floor probably isn't stiff enough to be used for finished living space. However, I'm sure that's just a matter of specifying the right kind of attic truss.

 

[bczygan]

2nd floor with Gambrel roof or Gambrel truss?

 

[sdo]

That's interesting - I didn't need stamped drawings for my garage in Minneapolis, although that was 20 years ago and I haven't paid attention to any changes since then. I wasn't required to have full footers either, my 24 x 40 with attic trusses is on a slab and it's been just fine. I rarely see garages in my neighborhood that are built with full footers.

I don't recall the price difference exactly, but while the storage trusses were more expensive it wasn't all that much compared to conventional trusses...I seem to remember it was a matter of a few hundred dollars.

One other thing - my attic space is fine for storage but the floor probably isn't stiff enough to be used for finished living space. However, I'm sure that's just a matter of specifying the right kind of attic truss.

Hi Stuart, 2 years go I actually had plans drawn for a 30 x 36 stick built shed on a slab which would have had corrugated siding and roofing. Because the slab was over 1000 sq ft, the building inspector made me go spend 700 bucks on an engineering review before he'd issue a permit (he claimed per MN building code), which I followed through with and got sealed plans. Well, Township gov. being what it is sometimes, decided they didn't want to allow me to build it because of aesthetics and the likely the fact that they were in bed with an immediate neighbor of mine who was a former board member. So they ended up denying the permit anyway based on non-existent zoning ordinances. When they were called out on it, they just enacted a moratorium to railroad me, until they had a chance to change the zoning ordinance to include aesthetic requirements. Keep in mind I am in a Township, which are generally rural! It was a joke, but guess what? The guy on the board that headed up the effort lost his job last election to none-other than myself! And now I am back to planning my shed!

 

[sdo]

I am liking the idea of a raised heal, I did some sketching and I think it could work pretty good. When I drop back from 10/12 pitch down to 8/12, I fall below 25' and things look well proportioned. Some CAD sketching below.

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[n20junkie]

Hi Stuart, 2 years go I actually had plans drawn for a 30 x 36 stick built shed on a slab which would have had corrugated siding and roofing. Because the slab was over 1000 sq ft, the building inspector made me go spend 700 bucks on an engineering review before he'd issue a permit (he claimed per MN building code), which I followed through with and got sealed plans. Well, Township gov. being what it is sometimes, decided they didn't want to allow me to build it because of aesthetics and the likely the fact that they were in bed with an immediate neighbor of mine who was a former board member. So they ended up denying the permit anyway based on non-existent zoning ordinances. When they were called out on it, they just enacted a moratorium to railroad me, until they had a chance to change the zoning ordinance to include aesthetic requirements. Keep in mind I am in a Township, which are generally rural! It was a joke, but guess what? The guy on the board that headed up the effort lost his job last election to none-other than myself! And now I am back to planning my shed!

Now that's a feel good story.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Hi Stuart, 2 years go I actually had plans drawn for a 30 x 36 stick built shed on a slab which would have had corrugated siding and roofing. Because the slab was over 1000 sq ft, the building inspector made me go spend 700 bucks on an engineering review before he'd issue a permit (he claimed per MN building code), which I followed through with and got sealed plans.

I didn't think about the size - my garage is 960 square feet so it was under that limit, so I suppose the question never came up when pulling the permits.