Engine shuts off at first stop light every morning.

[edcantu9]

2005 Escape V6 3.0. Engine shuts off at first stop light every morning.

Starts back up without issue. Drives normally the rest of the day.

I have plenty of diagnostics equipment. And can track live PIDs.

I smoke tested for vacuum leaks. None found. Vacuum levels are normal during idle and drive.

Fuel trims are excellent.

Fuel pressure is normal before startup and after prime and during driving.

Engine cooling systems are normal.

Fuel injectors are without fault.

AIC shows no fault. Voltage changes according to throttle.

CPS shows to fault. Voltage changes as well.

The truck only shuts off at the first stop light every morning. I looked at all data and nothing seems abnormal to me

Any suggestions?

 

[Jumper]

Maybe take a different route to work to avoid the stoplight????

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[edcantu9]

Maybe take a different route to work to avoid the stoplight????

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LOL great thinking. I should of thought of that!

 

[rlitman]

Check the transmission fluid level. Maybe it's being stalled from something outside the engine.

 

[CoogarXR]

Maybe take a different route to work to avoid the stoplight????

I know this was probably a joke, but it's actually a good start. I would start making variations in the drive to see if anything changes. For instance, take a route that has a longer run before you have to stop. Does it still stall? Or maybe warm it up for 10 minutes, then go the old way, did it still stall? Put it in neutral before you come to a stop, stuff like that. Then you can narrow it down to an issue with temperature, time, transmission, environment, etc.

Anecdotal reference: A guy on another forum I frequent documented his truck's check engine light coming on only when crossing a certain bridge every day. Sometimes weird **** can interfere with the electronics. Probably not the case with your issue, but it's fun to postulate, lol.

 

[Z2V]

^^^Try putting it in neutral when approaching the light. Maybe torque converter or transmission causing the problem. I like the idea of taking different route too.

 

[Jumper]

LOL.
All kidding aside, I hope you find the solution and I don't have anything of relevance to add to your post.
It was my first post ever in this forum.


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[kckndrgn]

When it stalls, what does the engine feel/sound like? Does it just stop or does it feel like you forgot to push in the clutch on a manual transmission?

Example, my wife's subaru is going into the shop tomorrow to get the torque converter worked on. If she comes to a hard stop (well, anything more that coasting to a stop with very light pressure on the break peddle) the engine will die. Started of on just the first stop of the trip to work, then got to be more and more. When it did it to me, I noted how the engine reacted. Best way to describe it is like stopping a manual transmission without pushing in the clutch. A bit jerk and rough when stopping.

 

[Tim C]

You may want to try cleaning the throttle body, especially if it's drive by wire instead of a throttle cable with an old style idle air control solenoid. It doesn't take much carbon build up and the idle gets lower, it could be on a coldish engine it's too low to catch itself as you come to a stop. A little air intake/maf cleaner spray and an old toothbrush is a quick and easy first guess. We've fixed a bunch of random stall issues at work checking this.

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[mlum6969]

if you can record some pids the moments before stalling, that would be helpful. is it just suddenly stalling or rpm slowly going down and stalling?

as others have suggested, my first try would be throwing it in neutral and see if it still stalls there.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Also possible dirty throttle body in my opinion.

 

[larry_g]

Is the first light always the same intersection? If you catch a couple of greens does it die on the third light if you have to stop?

Can you do the first leg of the trip in a lower gear?

If you go 100 yards and stop in the middle of the street, does it die?

Can you give it a bit of a warm-up before leaving? Does it change the results?

Change up what you can and pay attention the the results, ti may clue you into just what operating parameters kills it.

Is this your personal car or a customers?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[matt_i]

Whatever controls the idle air (be it a separate idle air control pintle or as mentioned the electronic throttle) can't react fast enough imo to prevent a stall. The throttle should open rapidly (up to the limit of travel for idle) when the engine rpms are sensed to be dropping.

As mentioned if there's carbon-coke on part of the mechanism it may not be able to respond fast enough.

 

[Orionrising]

Loose wire/ terminal on the battery? I was having intermittent starting issues but no issues driving. That turned out to be it.

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[Hector's Shop]

I would look into the Camshaft position Sensor or the Crankshaft position Sensor.

 

[redmondjp]

It sounds like a temperature-related intermittent in a pickup coil or solenoid. I had this problem twice - once with the throttle-body fuel injector solenoid, and once with a pickup coil inside a distributor. Both failed predictably after a certain number of miles of driving, and the problem disappeared after a key-off reset. Good luck!

 

[bwringer]

You may want to try cleaning the throttle body, especially if it's drive by wire instead of a throttle cable with an old style idle air control solenoid. It doesn't take much carbon build up and the idle gets lower, it could be on a coldish engine it's too low to catch itself as you come to a stop. A little air intake/maf cleaner spray and an old toothbrush is a quick and easy first guess. We've fixed a bunch of random stall issues at work checking this.

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Also possible dirty throttle body in my opinion.

Thirded. Dirty TB is quite likely.

Let's put it this way: after 12 years and an unknown number of miles, your throttle body is definitely dirty. Cleaning it is easy and cheap.

 

[WhiffySpark]

A dirty throttle body isn't going to do this. I've never solved an issue yet cleaning a throttle body.

 

[bwringer]

A dirty throttle body isn't going to do this. I've never solved an issue yet cleaning a throttle body.

I have, more than once. Can't hurt (if he's careful), might help.

I would usually also suspect a sticky IAC (Idle Air Control) valve, but I don't think this vehicle has one.

 

[Racer_X]

The 2005-2008 Escapes are notorious for having a problem with the torque converter not unlocking at low RPMs. I believe there is a TSB for it.

 

[yamaha0343]

I would look into the Camshaft position Sensor or the Crankshaft position Sensor.

This! Either of these should throw a code though.

 

[DanielC99]

Very interested in the final solution to this problem. OP, please keep us updated.

 

[RVDan]

I vote torque converter not unlocking.

 

[kbs2244]

I would go with the torgue converter staying locked up.
When I had the problem it was with a Chev.
It turned out to be a relay that would not turn off..
I was able to drive while trouble shooting by shifting to neutral when I knew I would have to stop.
Something different in how the current went to the relay opened it.

 

[jethro29]

Did you smoke it when it was stone cold.? smoking this engine when warm will probably produce no results.you need to smoke it when it has sat all night or all day.it sounds like you have a vacuum leak which seals up as soon as the engine gets a little warm and things start to expand.try it and let us know how it goes.

 

[bob from indiana]

Has it run long enough to be in closed loop when it stalls?

 

[pepi]

Same red light. run or avoid the red light.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Has it run long enough to be in closed loop when it stalls?

My thoughts, too...

Tommy

 

[Squankum]

Now, I'm just an unfrozen cavemman, and the mysterious spirits don't talk to me in four digit numbers, but... spark plugs? Have you looked at them?

That was my second thought. My first was the same as Jehtro29 - vacuum leak, very first minutes, before things heat up and expand/compress/grow etc etc.

(I'm an old Bosch CIS guy. Everything is a vacuum leak or ground problem until ruled out.)


_

 

[mnoeltne]

TSB 07-5-6
03/19/07
CD4E - ENGINE STALLING ON ENGAGEMENT/STOPPING
FORD:
2005-2008 Escape MERCURY:
2005-2008 Mariner ISSUE
Some 2005-2008 Escape and Mariner vehicles equipped with a CD4E automatic transaxle and built from 8/1/2004 through 2/15/2007 may exhibit an engine stall when coming to a stop or when engaging the transmission into drive or reverse. This condition may be intermittent and often occurs after extended drives. There may be no diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) stored. This may be caused by internal wear in the torque converter which prevents it from unlocking. ACTION
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
1. Inspect and repair all non transaxle codes per Workshop Manual (WSM) and Powertrain Controls/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manuals.
2. Use the Integrated Diagnostic System equipment to monitor the PIDs (Parameter Identification) for TC_SLIPACT as the stall is occurring.
a. If the slip is greater than 20 RPM, the stalling is not transaxle related. Repair following PC/ED procedures for engine stalling condition.
b. If TC_SLIPACT is less than 20 RPM with the transmission in park or neutral, torque converter internal failure is the most likely cause, proceed to Step 3.
3. Remove the transaxle assembly and check the rotation of the torque converter in the bell housing. A failed converter will be difficult to rotate.
4. Remove the torque converter, drain the automatic transmission fluid (atf) and refill the CD4E transmission assembly using MERCON(R) V ATF.
5. Install a new torque converter and reinstall the transaxle assembly.
6. Back flush the transmission cooler system as described in the WSM, Section 307-01A.

This sounds similar, except for the "often occurs after extended drives" part.