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Pressure washer trips gfci with no load.

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RSVRMAN

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Yeah, we have a Chase card that the wife uses for work/business. With how much it's used, if we ever have a problem they are very prompt with their service. I hate to ever pull that lever, but if my hand if forced I will if necessary.

And yup, neighbors was test reset and click within a few seconds. Before you could bend over to even turn the power on the pressure washer it would trip.
 
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ard

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^ Bingo.

Chargeback on your credit card. If you spend enough on the CC they will usually go to bat for you. Stop trying to work with Northstar- your biggest leverage is stopping that payment (or reversing it)...even if temporarily- THAT will get their attention. They get a chargeback, the clock starts and Northern WILL look into it.

In this case, you simply describe the issue, that you DID what they asked, they failed to fix it and now want to return it. Period.

I do read that it might now be resolved and maybe a new one is headed your way...but I added this as an FYI, maybe to you, maybe others.
 
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RSVRMAN

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Another update.

So Northern tool had a 3rd party logistics company reach out to me for pickup. From what I could tell, the guy does bidding and then contracts through freight carriers. They come to pickup the pressure washer on the pallet on a lift gate truck. I placed labels inside the box and outside as requested. The guy then has me sign his white paper, waves and it on his way. I took pictures of the box with everything inside before I shipped it just in case.

Well I got a call from the guy as my northern tool contact reached out to him and said they haven't received the pressure washer yet. He called me to get some details and said he has no record of pickup. He said he will call the company that picked it up and get back to me. Not long after, he said he spoke with a guy from the company that is saying I denied pickup. He said if I received a receipt and unfortunately I did not. I did exactly as he asked with the labels and figured it like any other carrier as they scan it and don't give me a receipt. I told him I can identify him and the markings on the truck. So he calls back the carrier and said they don't know who they sent now and will look into it.

Since I just moved, I haven't had a chance to get my cameras up yet. My neighbor may have a video of the truck at my driveway as he has one pointing to the road. Fingers crossed on that.

I have left a message for NorthernTool to call me back as well.

A logistics company should be able to tell exactly where their driver is in addition to which one was at my house. I don't have any other deliveries that have come freight.

I guess I will have to wait and see what NorthernTool has to say on this, but a nightmare is an understatement.
 
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EOC_Jason

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Yeah, with any LTL you *always* get a copy of the bill of lading, signed by the driver (PRINT and normal signature)... Never hurts to write the time and other notation (like a truck # or something else unique you see on the truck). Their tracking isn't anything like small parcels...

I'm sure it will show up on Northern Tool's dock one of these days.
 
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RSVRMAN

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Yeah, with any LTL you *always* get a copy of the bill of lading, signed by the driver (PRINT and normal signature)... Never hurts to write the time and other notation (like a truck # or something else unique you see on the truck). Their tracking isn't anything like small parcels...

I'm sure it will show up on Northern Tool's dock one of these days.

With them providing a pickup time, printed RMA and barcode, I figured would be fine. Another lesson learned. I'm not so sure it will arrive as it seems the driver is stating I denied pickup, as in he may have kept the item. At the same time they don't know who the driver was.

Will have to see what northern tool says. Really hoping I don't also need to get police involved.

I guess this is no longer a gfci issue heh.

Unboxing my security system tonight and getting it up and running. ASAP. Came in handy before numerous times on delivery issues.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Oy vay!

Well if the driver did steal it, and then goes to plug it in, he will get a nice surprise. :lol:

Bet that thing will show up quick.
 

Marctrees

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Should have asked the service guy if he was willing to take off his shoes, spit on his hands, and grab the bull by the horns.

Then he would see it trip. Marc
 
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Marctrees

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One might think Tires are insulators, and while they are very poor conductors, they are not pure rubber.

They are more conductive than most would guess.

I'm only speaking to a fault to ground(frame of machine) then flowing through to "Earth ground"

But otherwise anyway, this thing is on a cart that does have steel tube on the ground.

Whatever......just yammering now.

Marc
 
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RSVRMAN

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OMGGGGGGGGG.... What next ?

Keep the Faith RSVR.

Patient, logical Man.

It will work out. Marc

Hah thanks. I'm sure it will. I just can't believe the hassle this has all caused me. I was really hoping they would have just sent a new one and exchanged upon delivery. Can't really even point fingers at his point. I still have the fallback with the credit card thankfully and can wash my hands. Just wish Northern Tool would just step up send a new one out and be done with it.
 

ard

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One more thing:

They arranged for the pickup and shipment- AND they provided you with instructions. Did those instructions state that you needed to obtain a receipt?

Instead of "I neglected to get a pick up receipt" your position should be "their agent picked up the item and failed to provide a receipt, furthermore they failed to inform me they wanted me to demand a pickup receipt from their agent".

You are being incredibly patient- some might say to a fault?

I'd charge it back, provide a bullet proof rationale- when the credit card company sustains your chargeback, I would shop for a unit elsewhere. Northstar has made it abundantly clear what they think of your business.
 

pescados666

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Once you tell the customer service rep you're going to do something that would end up costing northern more money, they're a lot more accommodating to you. I've found that out at most companies.
Chargebacks cause them to give you a full refund as well as pay a fee for the bank's effort, so northern would have paid for the shipping company, for the pressure washer refund, the bank's fees, and would be out the product and the time their employees spent on all of this.
They care a lot more about their problems than your problems, so make it become their problem.
 

EOC_Jason

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Very true... Unless instructions explicitly say that, how is a common person supposed to know? When you drop off a package at the post office, it just goes in a slot and it's just the good faith that they will deliver it. When UPS picks up a package they just scan it and go... (Well... Unless it's insured for $1,000 or more, then it is tracked very very carefully in their system with a complete chain of custody. But those are rare exceptions for most people.)


They arranged for the pickup and shipment- AND they provided you with instructions. Did those instructions state that you needed to obtain a receipt?

Instead of "I neglected to get a pick up receipt" your position should be "their agent picked up the item and failed to provide a receipt, furthermore they failed to inform me they wanted me to demand a pickup receipt from their agent".

You are being incredibly patient- some might say to a fault?
 

mm08822

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I vaguely remember someone commenting (on GJ?) about a year ago that the store locations operate as separate entities from the online store site for customer service.

If you called the online site, they directed you back to the local store and that was as far as they would help the customer. These were also people who traveled ~1-2 hours to p/u their stuff to save shipping.
 
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ard

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Once you tell the customer service rep you're going to do something that would end up costing northern more money, they're a lot more accommodating to you. I've found that out at most companies.
Chargebacks cause them to give you a full refund as well as pay a fee for the bank's effort, so northern would have paid for the shipping company, for the pressure washer refund, the bank's fees, and would be out the product and the time their employees spent on all of this.
They care a lot more about their problems than your problems, so make it become their problem.

This is a critical point in dealing with large, impersonal companies- wherein YOU have little voice and are being forced to endure their chosen 'process'.... They have your money, they are happy to 'run out the clock'. There is no urgency whatsoever.

When you do a chargeback, unless they respond in X days (varies by card) to the complaint, the chargeback will be automatically upheld. A chargeback, if nothing else, starts a clock running to get it resolved. It is also a way to get their attention, by putting your hands on $$$ in their merchant account.

As you said, 'it becomes their problem'
 
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RSVRMAN

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One more thing:

They arranged for the pickup and shipment- AND they provided you with instructions. Did those instructions state that you needed to obtain a receipt?

Instead of "I neglected to get a pick up receipt" your position should be "their agent picked up the item and failed to provide a receipt, furthermore they failed to inform me they wanted me to demand a pickup receipt from their agent".

You are being incredibly patient- some might say to a fault?

I'd charge it back, provide a bullet proof rationale- when the credit card company sustains your chargeback, I would shop for a unit elsewhere. Northstar has made it abundantly clear what they think of your business.

Thank you, this is was sound advice and I used it today.

The logistics guy called me and I assured him it was his problem as I did everything exactly as he asked. This guy asked me everything again, had to actually ask if he had paper and a pencil this time because it was at least our 4th or 5th phone call and I was done repeating myself. After we spoke I let him know I would only be working with NorthernTool after this and to speak with them as I had told him to do so before.

I called back NorthernTool and worked with the same Rep and Supervisor. I must say if there is any consolation, I at least don't have to work with anyone new and they understand everything. After I provide my update, they asked for the logistics guy as I guess he never even reached out to them, even though I provided their info on every call. Talk about a huge communication gap. The rep was very kind and asked if she could have 1 hour to gather the data, call the logistics guys boss and call me back.

After about 30 mins she called back and asked for the picture of the pallet that I had taken. She said that the logistics guys boss is going to have someone search the warehouse for this pallet to see if it shows up, however since the work day was almost ending she wouldn't have an answer until tomorrow.

I let them know how I felt about this situation as now I have a few necks to choke. I let the rep know that they have 24 hours to resolve the issue and refund my purchase or I will go the way of the credit card.

So will wait and see what happens, the clock is ticking on their end now. NorthernTool is still a decent brick and morter store if you can work directly with the store, but after this ordeal, I'm never shopping there again. More business to Harbor Freight. From the beginning they should have just mailed out a new one and collected the old one at a later point.3

Once you tell the customer service rep you're going to do something that would end up costing northern more money, they're a lot more accommodating to you. I've found that out at most companies.
Chargebacks cause them to give you a full refund as well as pay a fee for the bank's effort, so northern would have paid for the shipping company, for the pressure washer refund, the bank's fees, and would be out the product and the time their employees spent on all of this.
They care a lot more about their problems than your problems, so make it become their problem.

Yup, it's sad that it had to come to this, especially from a frequent customer, but more and more businesses seem to not give a ****. Lose 3 but 4 new customers mentality.

Very true... Unless instructions explicitly say that, how is a common person supposed to know? When you drop off a package at the post office, it just goes in a slot and it's just the good faith that they will deliver it. When UPS picks up a package they just scan it and go... (Well... Unless it's insured for $1,000 or more, then it is tracked very very carefully in their system with a complete chain of custody. But those are rare exceptions for most people.)

This is exactly what I'm used to. If I have to return an Amazon item I just set it on the porch. I'd even be willing to bet if it was stolen Amazon would refund the money anyways. No signiture and I'm not there.

I vaguely remember someone commenting (on GJ?) about a year ago that the store locations operate as separate entities from the online store site for customer service.

If you called the online site, they directed you back to the local store and that was as far as they would help the customer. These were also people who traveled ~1-2 hours to p/u their stuff to save shipping.

This may be, I called their main customer service hotline and was given a rep. So I'm working with someone from their HQ I'd assume.

This sounds like such a nightmare, just commenting to leave you some moral support RSVR!

Hah thanks! Though it was ordered almost 2 months ago, this actually was a Father's Day gift from my wife. She knew I wanted this one. She also feels terrible about this. Hopefully they can just refund the credit card promptly and I can go find a local place for a comparable pressure washer.
 

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I'll tell you, one thing about American Express (my CC I use 99% of the time)... If there is ever a problem, they make it right immediately without question or hassle...

I used to shop at NT when I lived in Houston. The B&M stores were nice, kind of a step above Harbor Freight... Since moving here I don't think there are any in the state...
 

6PTsocket

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I considered this, but do like the added protection in the event of 240v crawling up my leg.



This is what I was thinking, I had read about other people with gfci issues stated it could be a ground loop? First time I've ever had a gfci issue, normally they are the receptacle though and not in line.
Any GFCI can go bad, regardless of where it is installed or you could actually have a gtou d fault. A gfci trips when the current in one leg of the line is lower than the other by 6 ma. The lost current has found another route to ground and hopefully it is not through you. As has been suggested, if you have a gfci protected outlet and you bypass yours, and the outlet does not fault out, then you had a bad one. If the outlet gfci trips then you really have a ground fault. You are playing in water so you really want to make sure the pressure washer does not have faulty insulation. Just replacing the one on the pressure washer is also possible but might be a waste of money depending on what it costs to replace.
I considered this, but do like the added protection in the event of 240v crawling up my leg.



This is what I was thinking, I had read about other people with gfci issues stated it could be a ground loop? First time I've ever had a gfci issue, normally they are the receptacle though and not in line.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
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RSVRMAN

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I'll tell you, one thing about American Express (my CC I use 99% of the time)... If there is ever a problem, they make it right immediately without question or hassle...

I used to shop at NT when I lived in Houston. The B&M stores were nice, kind of a step above Harbor Freight... Since moving here I don't think there are any in the state...


I felt a lot of their tools had a slightly better finish so it was worth the extra few bucks. I also really like the clutch pnumatic stuff. Also it doesnt have that god awful smell when you walk in.
 
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RSVRMAN

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So I got a call at the end of the day today. I had requested a refund, but apparently when they were re-reading the notes, they somehow thought I just wanted a replacement processed it and it was shipped today by the time they called. The rep thought thats what I had wanted, even though I wanted a refund. They did say I could send this one back and that there would be no trouble. Well knowing it would cost them to ship it back we talked for a bit and they incentivezed me enough to give this one another shot.

So I guess we will have some closure on this thread when I plug in the new one if its still a GFCI issue.
 

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1rdvhi.jpg
 
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Ya, sorry for the slow response. I swear I can't make this stuff up.

So YRC is the shipping company again. They called to deliver the replacement pressure washer on July 5th. Since it's on a pallet they for some reason need a window of 1-5 for delivery. To do this I took a day of vacation. Well to my expectation, they didn't show. So I called YRC to see what the hell is going on. I call their HQ, get put in hold for about 45 mins and they inform me it's not guaranteed delivery date. I ask well then why does your phone repeat guaranteed delivery times when you put me on hold? No response. Well they call the dockmastsr and they say for sure it will be delivered tomorrow from 1-5. They have "yellow tagged" it. I spoke with some group manager afterwards at YRC HQ "Zach" and he guaranteed it. I should note it's pro# (aka tracking) puts it 10 mins from my house.

Guess what? No delivery.

I lost my cool. I called back YRC let them know my piece of mind blowing two vacation days for their inability to deliver. Don't make promises you can't keep as I don't get much vacation! They asked if the dock master never called me back? Nope. Nobody has ever called me back except for the first delivery. They said well we can't find it. I guess just because the tracking number states it's here, doesn't mean it is....

So they said they are going to look for it and call me back tomorrow morning and if they find it will give me a 1 hour window on Friday so I only need to take an extended lunch.

No call in the morning, as I figured. Called YRC HQ again at 4pm and got a new person. First one that actually apologized. She said I can see all of the mistakes. She tried calling the dockmaster again in Hayward and was surprised that nobody answered. (This happened before when I was on and off hold for 45 mins and rude would be an understatement) She said she thinks it's either in Chicago or lost after finally talking with the place it should be. She said she'd call back this morning when she came in with an update. Guess what no call.

So I put a call into the person I was working with at NorthernTool and left a message for them to call me back since they aren't in today. God help me if I have to work with anyone new. I'll listen to what they have to say and then request my money back. Immediately.

I've probably wasted 30+ hours at this point and finally snapped. This has been the absolute worst buying experience I've ever had by a long shot. I'm never, ever going to buy a single piece of equipment ever again from NorthernTool. In addition as being from the Midwest I have a lot of friends that buy tools that will love to hear this story.

I had asked to not use the same freight (although I'm sure they have a contract) YRC has a 1 star rating. Out of 100s of reviews and Northern Tool chooses to use them. The people at Northstar ( I'm not going to risk thread deletion so you imagine the words).

I'd love for someone in logistics or up the chain in NorthernTool to see this thread and hopefully learn from it. The ball thrown down the Grand Canyon on on this one.

I'll update again when I find out more when I get a call back from Northern told.
 
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RSVRMAN

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Was going to add, I have a stack of notes just trying to keep it all straight. Thus far I have about 20 names of people I've spoken with. That I didn't care nor care to have ever known.
 
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Once I get my refund, I've already been pricing out what it would cost to build one and plan to go that route. I may spend a bit more, but will create a new thread on that process.

Sorry you guys are seeing me rant. Just sharing the experience that keeps on giving.
 
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EOC_Jason

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Man, rant away.... I would be pissed as sh*t too wasting two vacation days for nothing...

Funny how shipping companies manage to scan a package when it arrives at a location, but somehow they can't find it... Like it was too heavy to take off the truck so they just left it on and let it go back.

Honestly, I would have just called the CC company a long time ago, told them about the complete cluster F everything has become, get your refund. If a pressure washer shows up on your doorstep then you can contact Northstar and let them pick it up and take it back on their own dime but you won't do a single thing beyond let it sit where it was left (not even put a return sticker on it)...

In my experience, FedEx Freight and Old Dominion were probably the two best trucking companies I've had to deal with.
 
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RSVRMAN

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Yup, you're right. I should have called the CC company from the beginning. They should have also never prematurely sent the 2nd one. Since I won't be home for the delivery they won't be able to follow through, that and when I talk to them Monday.

The thing is, I've never had a problem with freight before. Although my experience with them is limited, their logistics and times are usually spot on. I don't have a problem with freight taking awhile to get here or even if it took another week, just don't call to make an appointment, especially with a 4 hour window and then not show up.

As you can see below that was the last update.
 

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