So I guess Hercules does beat Dewalt.

[Virgil Cain]

Well said...





Really? It's easy to sit back behind a keyboard and make comments about someone's knowledge or lack of, it's another thing to put yourself out there and open yourself up to scrutiny from other knowledgeable people. I mean seriously, you have it broke down to 25%, How about some details? I personally can put some clout in that, Much more than just attacking other members with innuendo's about there personal life.

AvE is knowledgeable about a great many thing. But his knowledge is broad but at times shallow. For instance, I recall several instances of him talking about lithium battery charging and capacity. Now, I've designed commercial products with lithium batteries and am decently well acquainted with lithium chemistry and charge management, and I can tell you he has a superficial knowledge of the subject but he simply gets many of the details wrong. No sin in that, but if you're going to shoot down a product because you say the manufacturer's claims are wrong in terms of battery life, it would behoove you to get the details right.

My sense is that AvE probably has a background as a manufacturing engineer. A good manufacturing engineer is worth his weight in gold, but it a different discipline from the design engineer actually having to make real trade offs in product development. My impression is, he has no experience in that area. I could be wrong but that's what I get from watching his videos.

Trust me, you guys don't really want a product designed by the AvEs of the world. If at every design decision point you put in the most premium component you will end up with a product that costs too much, weighs too much, and will in fact flop in the market. A drill that last 50% longer, but costs 75% more and is 30% heavier is not a product that is going to sell. Those are just the facts. I promise you, the guys that have been designing cordless drill for years know far more than AvE about where their products tend to break, where they need to use premium components, and where they can get by with less, and most importantly what their customers are willing to pay and what is the best trade off in terms of product life versus cost.

In fact, it is AvE that is armchair quarterbacking when he says "oh, this sintered metal gear is ****, they should have used a machined part here". He's not the guy that will have to answer to his management when his overly expensive, overly heavy product does not sell. He's just the anonymous guy in Canada that pronounces that it isn't "skookum".

 

[Hiball]

AvE is knowledgeable about a great many thing. But his knowledge is broad but at times shallow. For instance, I recall several instances of him talking about lithium battery charging and capacity. Now, I've designed commercial products with lithium batteries and am decently well acquainted with lithium chemistry and charge management, and I can tell you he has a superficial knowledge of the subject but he simply gets many of the details wrong. No sin in that, but if you're going to shoot down a product because you say the manufacturer's claims are wrong in terms of battery life, it would behoove you to get the details right.

My sense is that AvE probably has a background as a manufacturing engineer. A good manufacturing engineer is worth is weight in gold, but it as different discipline from the design engineer actually having to make real tradeoffs in product development. My impression is, he has no experience in that area. I could be wrong but that's what I get from watching his videos.

Trust me, you guys don't really want a product designed by the AvEs of the world. If at every design decision point you put in the most premium component you will end up with a product that costs too much, weighs too much, and will in fact flop in the market. A drill that last 50% longer, but costs 75% more and is 30% heavier is not a product that is going to sell. Those are just the facts. I promise you, the guys that have been designing cordless drill for years know far more than AvE about where their products tend to break, where they need to use premium components, and where they can get by with less, and most importantly what their customers are willing to pay and what is the best trade off in terms of product life versus cost.

In fact, it is AvE that is armchair quarterbacking when he says "oh, this sintered metal gear is ****, they should have used a machined part here". He's not the guy that will have to answer to his management when his overly expensive, overly heavy product does not sell. He's just the anonymous guy in Canada that pronounces that it isn't "skookum".

I suspect to be a "good reviewer" <--- is that a real thing? You need to have a broad knowledge, Nobody... Here or abroad will know the in's and out's about everything. I've only watched a few of his videos, I'm not a AVE expert by any means, but I can promise you. If you take the entertainment factor out of the video, most viewers would be asleep before minute 3.

In regards to the sintered versus machined debate, unlikely he is concerned with tool manufacturing cost, he is clearly debating the longevity factor and his opinion on those manufacturing methods. I get it.. Today's consumers are infatuated with cost, I'm no different in some scenarios. I would hate to be the engineer that had to make a cost savings decision to keep the product viable in today's marketplace. I suspect a lot of those decisions are based on the expected tools lifetime, today's consumer like New stuff, there is no need to design a tool to last 20+ years. Today's Hydraulic jacks are a prime example, cheaper components, flashier paint jobs have overtaken the market place, and consumers eat that sh/t up.

 

[Virgil Cain]

I suspect to be a "good reviewer" <--- is that a real thing? You need to have a broad knowledge, Nobody... Here or abroad will know the in's and out's about everything. I've only watched a few of his videos, I'm not AVE expert by any means, but I can promise you. If you take the entertainment factor out of the video, most viewers would be asleep before minute 3.

In regards to the sintered versus machines debate, unlikely he is concerned with tool manufacturing cost, he is clearly debating the longevity factor and his opinion on those manufacturing methods. I get it.. Today's consumers are infatuated with cost, I'm no different in some scenarios. I would hate to be the engineer that had to make a cost savings decision to keep the product viable in today's marketplace. I suspect a lot of those decisions are based on the expected tools lifetime, today's consumer like New stuff, there is no need to design a tool to last 20+ years. Today's Hydraulic jacks are a prime example, cheaper components, flashier paint jobs have overtaken the market place, and consumers eat that sh/t up.

It isn't just that consumers are infatuated with cost. Every tool has a price point at which it will sell, even to professional uses that are looking for a premium quality tool. In this world perfection does not exist. We must always make trade offs in terms of price, quality, weight, etc. etc. Even for the professional user that needs a reliable tool, it make no sense for him to buy a tool that costs twice as much but only last 50% longer. That's just bad economics.

My problem with AvE's reviews, aside from his factual errors at times, is that in many cases he does not acknowledge the above.

 

[zendriver]

I can't help but wondering, if his reviews would have been accepted more warmly, if the HF product had not be declared the "winner".

That seems to be how these discussions go.

The reviewer is dumb, or the tests rigged, if their products performs well.

 

[Hiball]

It isn't just that consumers are infatuated with cost. Every tool has a price point at which it will sell, even to professional uses that are looking for a premium quality tool. In this world perfection does not exit. We must always make trade offs in terms of price, quality, weight, etc. etc. Even for the professional user that needs a reliable tool, it make no sense for him to buy a tool that costs twice as much but only last 50% longer. That's just bad economics.

My problem with AvE's reviews, aside from his factual errors at times, is that in many cases he does not acknowledge the above.

I'm gonna guess that there is a continuous rift between design engineers and manufacturing engineers, I suspect there always has been and always will. I'll bow out of the "twice as much but only lasts 50% longer" statement, I've been around lift equipment and tools in general long enough to know blanket statements like that don't hold water. In some cases... Absolutely, as a general rule of thumb. Nope..

 

[kctyphoon]

All internet engineers and YouTube reviews aside, the Hercules outperformed the two drills in THAT video.. pretty easily I might add.. yes, makita had overload protection kick in, basically confirming the task at hand was too much for that drill. The dewalt barely made it too. Mind you, those are probably the cheapest options of the two brands, the Hercules was cheaper still, and made it pretty apparent it outclassed both tools in that video, and did it for what 30% less cost?.

Honestly, I think the next video should pin it against upgraded models where the cost difference might be more widely spread. I think it's time to pull out the entry hammer drill models and do the same test against the Hercules hammer drill version.

One thing I thought was interesting was the fact that even with the single battery that came in the Hercules kit, it still provided about the same amount of work the dual battery dewalt kit would have. I'm not saying people should run out and buy that brand. I'm merely stating that the results are what they are, and your obviously getting a good drill for the money if you're shopping at the bargain basement level. And it comes with a real case too..

 

[Virgil Cain]

I'm gonna guess that there is a continuous rift between design engineers and manufacturing engineers, I suspect there always has been and always will. I'll bow out of the "twice as much but only lasts 50% longer" statement, I've been around lift equipment and tools in general to know blanket statements like that don't hold water. In some cases... Absolutely, as a general rule of thumb. Nope..

Not really. Most of the friction between manufacturing engineers and design engineers is that the manufacturing guys press to remove manufacturing steps or steps in test to speed up the process. Sometimes they're right, sometimes not.

On the 2x the cost for 50% improvement in life, I wasn't trying to give you a real estimate on how much more it would cost to increase the life by 50%, I was only pointing out that arbitrarily increasing the cost without regard to how much value that brings to the customer does not make sense. Actual cost would depend on particular situations.

And that's what it's all about. A good company and a good engineer always tries to keep in mind what value their product brings to the customer. How much performance or operating life am I giving him at what cost. And that never results in absolutely maximizing the quality of every component regardless of cost. The world just doesn't work like that. Let me assure you that even Lamborghinis are designed to a price point (albeit a very high one). For some amount of money they could make their cars go faster, corner harder, or brake better. But even those customers reach a point where they are unwilling to pay for better quality.

 

[Thumper68]

It isn't just that consumers are infatuated with cost. Every tool has a price point at which it will sell, even to professional uses that are looking for a premium quality tool. In this world perfection does not exit. We must always make trade offs in terms of price, quality, weight, etc. etc. Even for the professional user that needs a reliable tool, it make no sense for him to buy a tool that costs twice as much but only last 50% longer. That's just bad economics.

My problem with AvE's reviews, aside from his factual errors at times, is that in many cases he does not acknowledge the above.

You couldn't be more wrong on this statement. Pro's will spend the money on a higher quality tool if it meets their needs other wise Fein, Hilti and quite a few other manufactures would not be around.

I was searching for a dry cut saw for the shop, I looked at all the available offerings, in the end I spent 3x as much for the Jepson because it was the best built with the best components, cast Al base, better motor, higher quality switch, better work holding. Why did I decide to go with the higher end tool? Because it will do the job day in and day out.

Look around the tool forum and you will see that many of us buy old equipment because it is better built, machined components vs sintered, heavy cast vs stamped sheet metal.

For pro's cost is 2nd to quality.

 

[yamaha0343]

They all made in the same country with the same stuff by the same people.

The Dewalt in the video has USA stickers on it.

 

[American Locomotive]

In regards to the sintered versus machined debate, unlikely he is concerned with tool manufacturing cost, he is clearly debating the longevity factor and his opinion on those manufacturing methods. I get it.. Today's consumers are infatuated with cost, I'm no different in some scenarios.

The problem is that he clearly isn't a mechanical engineer. He rags on parts like sintered metal gears without any appreciation for the engineering and design going into the part. There are heavy duty diesel engines with powdered metal sintered connecting rods. Even the 840 HP supercharged Dodge Challenger Demon has sintered rods. As long as the gear, shaft, whatever has been designed properly with the material type and construction methods in mind, it's fine.

All internet engineers and YouTube reviews aside, the Hercules outperformed the two drills in THAT video.. pretty easily I might add.. yes, makita had overload protection kick in, basically confirming the task at hand was too much for that drill. The dewalt barely made it too. Mind you, those are probably the cheapest options of the two brands, the Hercules was cheaper still, and made it pretty apparent it outclassed both tools in that video, and did it for what 30% less cost?.

Did it "outclass" the other drills because of genuinely having more power and better engineering? Or did it "outclass' those other drills by slowly burning the motor up with excessive current because of primitive electronic controls without over load protection?

The Hercules also comes with one battery, and adding in the cost of the second battery reduces the cost difference to less than 15%. Which is more than made up by the 3-year warranty the Makita has.

 

[Virgil Cain]

You couldn't be more wrong on this statement. Pro's will spend the money on a higher quality tool if it meets their needs other wise Fein, Hilti and quite a few other manufactures would not be around.

I was searching for a dry cut saw for the shop, I looked at all the available offerings, in the end I spent 3x as much for the Jepson because it was the best built with the best components, cast Al base, better motor, higher quality switch, better work holding. Why did I decide to go with the higher end tool? Because it will do the job day in and day out.

Look around the tool forum and you will see that many of us buy old equipment because it is better built, machined components vs sintered, heavy cast vs stamped sheet metal.

For pro's cost is 2nd to quality.

I seriously wonder if some of you even read the posts that you comment on.

Of course a professional is willing to pay more for a premium quality tool. It makes economic sense for them to do so. But, even a professional buyer will reach a point of diminishing returns where a marginal increase in quality does not make sense given the increase in costs needed to achieve that improvement.

For a professional carpenter, a drill that last 50% longer but costs 75% more is simply a bad deal.

Everyone .... and I mean everyone .... buys to a cost point. Exactly where that cost point is will be determined by what you're doing with a product and how you're using it. Nobody is willing to pay an arbitrarily higher cost for any given incremental improvement in quality. Not me, and not you.

 

[kctyphoon]

Milwaukee too, in another video.

I'm pretty sure that's not a good video to base ANYTHING on.. not saying the Hercules may not beat the cheapest Milwaukee, just saying that's a pretty horrible comparison video.

 

[kctyphoon]

The problem is that he clearly isn't a mechanical engineer. He rags on parts like sintered metal gears without any appreciation for the engineering and design going into the part. There are heavy duty diesel engines with powdered metal sintered connecting rods. Even the 840 HP supercharged Dodge Challenger Demon has sintered rods. As long as the gear, shaft, whatever has been designed properly with the material type and construction methods in mind, it's fine.

Did it "outclass" the other drills because of genuinely having more power and better engineering? Or did it "outclass' those other drills by slowly burning the motor up with excessive current because of primitive electronic controls without over load protection?

The Hercules also comes with one battery, and adding in the cost of the second battery reduces the cost difference to less than 15%. Which is more than made up by the 3-year warranty the Makita has.

The 2nd battery and the warranty are a non issue here. This is a TOOL comparison. Like I previously stated, the hf's single battery gave about then same actual work as dewalt would have with both that came in the kit. Actually, if you doubled the Dewalts hole count, and gave Dewalt their full 3 amp/hrs that came in the kit, the hf STILL beat that by like 20 holes with a single battery and 1/2 less amp hr.. to me- that demos the dewalt struggling a little more competing against a stronger tool.

Listen man, justify it however you want - the HF drill is the only one that didn't struggle enough for its overload protection (which it DOES have) to even kick on once.. it's just too much drill for those other two models to hang with... if we're gonna sit here and start saying that the first drill to shut down is the "superior" tool, then we can all swap over to 12v stuff, call them the king of the hill, and enjoy the tools shutting down at every hole and tell ourselves "it's better this way".

And for the record - I'd be saying the same things had a Milwaukee been in that demo also and displayed similar results. HF has a pretty good cordless drill in their stores now, and there's nothing you, me, or anyone on here can say that will take that away from them. Gotta give credit where it's due, and this is one of those times..

Honestly, if I had a vacation home, or needed something that I knew had a high chance of getting lost or ruined - I'd consider one. If HF was smart they'd do combo kits, but I don't think they will go that way with these lines.

 

[Hiball]

The problem is that he clearly isn't a mechanical engineer. He rags on parts like sintered metal gears without any appreciation for the engineering and design going into the part. There are heavy duty diesel engines with powdered metal sintered connecting rods. Even the 840 HP supercharged Dodge Challenger Demon has sintered rods. As long as the gear, shaft, whatever has been designed properly with the material type and construction methods in mind.

I’m not sure if it’s a problem, Are you insinuating that ALL “sintered” parts are “designed properly” or created equal? I’m personally not disputing sintered metal as a whole, my gut tells me that trying to compare engine parts on a 80k car to a $120 dollar drill might be Ill advised. Lol...

Again.. I’m not a Ave groupie, I’ve maybe watched 4 videos. I doubt everything he says is 100% factual. With that said... if you lock 5 engineers in a room, ask them one question, you would likely get 5 different answers. I honestly don’t put a lot of clout with YouTube reviews, in regards to tools I stick with the major players when there are lots of working components. In regards to power tools, I own Milwaukee, porter cable and Dewalt. I haven’t noticed a nickels worth of difference between them. It’s a hassle to keep a variety chargers plugged in, but not a deal breaker as I don’t generally use them all at the same time. I doubt the HF lineup would blow up in my hand, give me cancer, it’s just not a route I’m personally willing or need to go down.

 

[Thumper68]

I seriously wonder if some of you even read the posts that you comment on.

Of course a professional is willing to pay more for a premium quality tool. It makes economic sense for them to do so. But, even a professional buyer will reach a point of diminishing returns where a marginal increase in quality does not make sense given the increase in costs needed to achieve that improvement.

For a professional carpenter, a drill that last 50% longer but costs 75% more is simply a bad deal.

Everyone .... and I mean everyone .... buys to a cost point. Exactly where that cost point is will be determined by what you're doing with a product and how you're using it. Nobody is willing to pay an arbitrarily higher cost for any given incremental improvement in quality. No me, and not you.

I do read the posts I comment on...

I can tell that you have never worked in the trades or had to provide tools to tradesmen.

My son is a carpenter, he has many hammers, but his go to are Stiletto and Williams, both are $100+ hammers, the $30 from HD would work but when you are using it all day everyday the $$$ is worth it.

In a previous life I needed a new tester for Network and fiber, I could have used a cheapo from just about anywhere but because it was for work I went with a $12,000.00 Fluke.

 

[Strouty]

I shouldn't be surprised that you guys are arguing over "review theater", that is what they want, someone posts a link, discussion gets heavy, said link gets clicked, money gets made.

I don't care what any review says, unless I need a one time use tool, I will not buy an electric tool from Harbor Freight. They have a terrible track record with changing things, what happens next year when they can't source the same piece, so it is just cheaper to make a different battery? Then your savings ends up being junk.

 

[Virgil Cain]

I do read the posts I comment on...

I can tell that you have never worked in the trades or had to provide tools to tradesmen.

My son is a carpenter, he has many hammers, but his go to are Stiletto and Williams, both are $100+ hammers, the $30 from HD would work but when you are using it all day everyday the $$$ is worth it.

In a previous life I needed a new tester for Network and fiber, I could have used a cheapo from just about anywhere but because it was for work I went with a $12,000.00 Fluke.

Show me where I've said in this thread (or anywhere else) that a professional isn't typically wiling to pay more for a higher quality tool. Take your time .... I'll wait.

What I've said is that nobody (professionals included) is willing to pay arbitrarily more for a marginal improvement in quality. In other words, nobody takes the position that "cost is no object when it comes to quality". People say things like that, but they don't mean it. As you don't mean it if you agree with that statement.

Tell me this .... would your son pay $300 dollars for a hammer that is 10% "better" (define better however you like) than his $100 Stiletto/Williams?

 

[KnurledNut]

They have a terrible track record with changing things, what happens next year when they can't source the same piece, so it is just cheaper to make a different battery? Then your savings ends up being junk.

Are you implying that drill will even last a year?

 

[kctyphoon]

I shouldn't be surprised that you guys are arguing over "review theater", that is what they want, someone posts a link, discussion gets heavy, said link gets clicked, money gets made.

Umm.. this is a tool DISCUSSION forum.. I'm sure RTR will enjoy the $3 this thread sends his way, but if you're suggesting we stop all "is this better than that?" threads, then you might as well shut down this website...

 

[AA/FC]

I am a fan of AvE. I think his videos are entertaining.... I watch them when I feel the need to be entertained. His entertainment is focused on general topics that I find interesting. His entertainment videos can be found for FREE on YouTube. The "information" within his videos is worth exactly what you paid for it. .

I've watched a ton of his videos and NEVER heard him claim (or imply) that he was giving a "lesson" of facts, only his opinion..... which is no different than any other on-line tool reviewer giving his opinion. (Such a real tool reviews, for example) Just because AvE goes into FAR greater detail doesn't mean it's anything more than his opinion..... which we're all entitled to have.

 

[electroman187]

The Makitas overload protection kicked in.
IMHO, That alone makes it the safest, and possibly the longest lasting, of the three.

That's exactly what my thought was. When the tool is not designed to bore 2.5" holes in wood, then a mechanism to keep the tool from (eventual) self-destruction is a good thing! I hadn't thought about the safety aspect, but yeah, it could save your wrists if it binds or keep you from a fall if you're on a ladder. So I just disregard the results of that particular test.

 

[Virgil Cain]

I've watched a ton of his videos and NEVER heard him claim (or imply) that he was giving a "lesson" of facts, only his opinion..... which is no different than any other on-line tool reviewer giving his opinion. (Such a real tool reviews, for example) Just because AvE goes into FAR greater detail doesn't mean it's anything more than his opinion..... which we're all entitled to have.

I've never heard him make such a claim either, but presumably he claims to know what he's talking about when he makes an alleged statement of fact.

And, if you're going to make a statement to the effect that "so and so's claim of battery life is ********" based on your vast knowledge in the absence of any actual testing, then it behooves you to know what you're talking about.

 

[AA/FC]

I've never heard him make such a claim either, but presumably he claims to know what he's talking about when he makes an alleged statement of fact.

And, if you're going to make a statement to the effect that "so and so's claim of battery life is ********" based on your vast knowledge in the absence of any actual testing, then it behooves you to know what you're talking about.

He makes FREE on-line videos.....

If you don't like his opinion, you're free to form your own.

 

[Virgil Cain]

He makes FREE on-line videos.....

If you don't like his opinion, you're free to form your own.

I suppose. If one merely thinks of it as entertainment.

But if he's deriving some income (no matter how meager) while making inaccurate statements about some company's product, that just seems ... wrong.

 

[American Locomotive]

I’m not sure if it’s a problem, Are you insinuating that ALL “sintered” parts are “designed properly” or created equal? I’m personally not disputing sintered metal as a whole, my gut tells me that trying to compare engine parts on a 80k car to a $120 dollar drill might be Ill advised. Lol...

$12,000 cars use sintered connecting rods too. My point was that there is nothing inherently wrong or weak about using sintered metal components. Using powdered metal parts allows the design engineers to hit the desired strength targets within their cost constraints. Yet AvE often trashes tools when they use sintered metal parts. When the reality is, as long as the part is designed to handle the expected stresses and loads with its material composition in mind, there is no problem. You could make the gears out of paper and glue, and as long as they were large enough they'd be fine.

The 2nd battery and the warranty are a non issue here. This is a TOOL comparison.

If this is a TOOL comparison, then why did you even mention price in post #46? You keep going on and on about how it costs 30% less, and performs just as good. But the reality is, when you factor in the cost of a 2nd battery, and the cost of 2 year replacement plan (still not as good as Makita's 3 year), the price advantage completely evaporates.

Like I previously stated, the hf's single battery gave about then same actual work as dewalt would have with both that came in the kit.

and even though 1 HF battery puts int he work of two of DeWalt's little batteries, it's still not the same. When the HF battery dies, I'm down for a half hour waiting for it to charge. With the Makita and DeWalt, I just swap batteries and continue on.

Listen man, justify it however you want - the HF drill is the only one that didn't struggle enough for its overload protection (which it DOES have) to even kick on once.. it's just too much drill for those other two models to hang with...

How do you know the HF's overload protection just isn't set artificially low? What happens if you try hogging 5 holes like that in a row? What if you stall the motor? Big brands like Makita and Milwaukee have all that figured out to keep the smoke inside their drills - even if it means the drill turns off when overloaded.

What about stuff like chuck run-out, chuck jaw grip strength and long-term durability?

I have nothing against the HF drill, but if we're going to say it "beats" the DeWalt and Makita, it better beat them on all fronts. Not just on how big its battery is, and how hard HF is willing to push that poor brush motor.

 

[JazzBlueRT]

$12,000 cars use sintered connecting rods too. My point was that there is nothing inherently wrong or weak about using sintered metal components. Using powdered metal parts allows the design engineers to hit the desired strength targets within their cost constraints. Yet AvE often trashes tools when they use sintered metal parts. When the reality is, as long as the part is designed to handle the expected stresses and loads with its material composition in mind, there is no problem. You could make the gears out of paper and glue, and as long as they were large enough they'd be fine.

Aren't powder forged connecting rods a performance item due to their superior strength and lighter weight?

 

[kctyphoon]

$12,000 cars use sintered connecting rods too. My point was that there is nothing inherently wrong or weak about using sintered metal components. Using powdered metal parts allows the design engineers to hit the desired strength targets within their cost constraints. Yet AvE often trashes tools when they use sintered metal parts. When the reality is, as long as the part is designed to handle the expected stresses and loads with its material composition in mind, there is no problem. You could make the gears out of paper and glue, and as long as they were large enough they'd be fine.

If this is a TOOL comparison, then why did you even mention price in post #46? You keep going on and on about how it costs 30% less, and performs just as good. But the reality is, when you factor in the cost of a 2nd battery, and the cost of 2 year replacement plan (still not as good as Makita's 3 year), the price advantage completely evaporates.

and even though 1 HF battery puts int he work of two of DeWalt's little batteries, it's still not the same. When the HF battery dies, I'm down for a half hour waiting for it to charge. With the Makita and DeWalt, I just swap batteries and continue on.

How do you know the HF's overload protection just isn't set artificially low? What happens if you try hogging 5 holes like that in a row? What if you stall the motor? Big brands like Makita and Milwaukee have all that figured out to keep the smoke inside their drills - even if it means the drill turns off when overloaded.

What about stuff like chuck run-out, chuck jaw grip strength and long-term durability?

I have nothing against the HF drill, but if we're going to say it "beats" the DeWalt and Makita, it better beat them on all fronts. Not just on how big its battery is, and how hard HF is willing to push that poor brush motor.

Did you even WATCH the video??? Its the ONLY drill that didn't struggle with anything. It has a METAL JACOBS chuck on it. (The only one there mind you) and for the last time, the Hercules HAS overload protection. This has to be the only video where the overload NOT coming on is a bad thing.. Brand prejudice ya think? When it's the only drill that didn't have the overload kick on, or even blink at any of the test, then obviously it's not being pushed hard enough yet. Dude, the other two are simply outclassed here. It's HF's flagship line vs the cheapest the other 2 have to offer.. Yea we get it, you don't like HF stuff. Jesus man stop pulling stuff outta the sky to downplay the results staring you in the face. And enough with the warranty - Milwaukee offers 2 years over what dewalt does, and nobody seems to be making decisions based on a warranty. If that were the case EVERYONE would just buy Ridgid. You could argue that at least the Hercules gives you a choice of a longer warranty for addition cost vs saving money on the purchase if you'd like to opt out.

Ok eliminate price, buy as much extra stuff for the HF drill as you want to. Another battery, additional warranty - a big red bow too.. fact is, it STILL beat the other two as is. Throw in the extra stuff, make the prices even across the board - then what's your argument on how it wasn't the best performing tool in THAT video, besides it just doesn't say Dewalt on it ? Yea, it doesn't offer a big line of tools - again, a non issue for the point of it being a good drill.

For $100 I'm tempted to just buy one and use it at work to see how it does.. tell ya what. If I put an 18" long, 11/16" ship auger bit on it, and it drills holes through telephone poles, would ya call that "good enough", or will it still **** cause the overload didn't kick on if it can do it?

 

[American Locomotive]

Did you even WATCH the video??? Its the ONLY drill that didn't struggle with anything.. and for the last time, the Hercules HAS overload protection.
.....................
This has to be the only video where the overload NOT coming on is a bad thing..

Overload protection coming on is never ever a bad thing. Having lax overload protection to get better peak numbers is however a bad thing. Do you really think HF's engineers somehow made a magical motor that can take way more abuse than Makita, DeWalt's, etc... 40+ years of experience? No. They're just pushing the motor harder.

I can guarantee if you abused both drills repeatedly, the HF would have smoke rolling out of the motor, while the makita and dewalt would not.

And enough with the warranty - Milwaukee offers 2 years over what dewalt does, and nobody seems to be making decisions based on a warranty. If that were the case EVERYONE would just buy Ridgid.

Warranty and extra batteries have value. Two things the Hercules drill doesn't have. Once you figure the warranty and batteries, it's not as good of a deal.

 

[kctyphoon]

No - I think HF paid to have a more powerful drill built by the manufacturer then dewalt did for the cheapest drill it offers.. do I think HF had Electronics "designed" for the drill? - no.. I think they went to a manufacturer, said "this is what we want" and the manufacturer said "ok here's a list of options we can offer you since we build 40 different brands of drills already, and this is what we'd recommend putting together from items we have already sourced and currently use is other brands"

You talk about dewalt like everything they sell is engineered to be the best they can possibly make it, bulletproof at every turn, and absolutely no compromise has ever been made to meet their price point for a specific offering. Who are you kidding here?

Watch the vid linked on post #12. You can plainly see the Hercules smoking like a cigar when pushed hard. Spoiler alert... there's no smoke.

As previously stated, make the prices even across the board.. the Hercules still outperformed both other drills in the vid, easily.. are you saying it didn't? Cause that's not what most of us saw.. lol

 

[Slednut]

Sorry if this has been posted, I'm too lazy to read every comment.

 

[Thumper68]

LOL warranty doesn't mean **** when the tool dies in the middle of a job! "Yup I'll just run this down to the repair center and wait 3 weeks to finish this up."
In this case you have 3 low end drills and the HF was the best of the lot.
At least with the HF if it dies you can walk into the store and get a new one, the other 2 not so much.

The argument for the "better" overload protection is BS, my guess is that Makita set theirs to shut down early to make sure they had no warranty claims.

The lack of a 2nd battery included is what would keep me from buying one.

I was in the middle of a job in the middle of nowhere and my Dewalt died, bad switch, I had no choice but to go to the nearest hardware store and pay full retail for a replacement to finish the job.

 

[American Locomotive]

Watch the vid linked on post #12. You can plainly see the Hercules smoking like a cigar when pushed hard. Spoiler alert... there's no smoke.

Spoiler Alert: I said repeatedly - as in over a long period of time. The Hercules lame battery couldn't even make it without getting hot enough to turn the drill off.

LOL warranty doesn't mean **** when the tool dies in the middle of a job! "Yup I'll just run this down to the repair center and wait 3 weeks to finish this up."
In this case you have 3 low end drills and the HF was the best of the lot.
At least with the HF if it dies you can walk into the store and get a new one, the other 2 not so much.

It matters a lot for the average weekend warrior, who spent $100+ on a tool. It likely wouldn't matter too much for the profession, but then again, what kind of professional goes to a job in the middle of no where with only one drill and no backup?

 

[jd_1138]

LOL warranty doesn't mean **** when the tool dies in the middle of a job! "Yup I'll just run this down to the repair center and wait 3 weeks to finish this up."
In this case you have 3 low end drills and the HF was the best of the lot.
At least with the HF if it dies you can walk into the store and get a new one, the other 2 not so much.

The argument for the "better" overload protection is BS, my guess is that Makita set theirs to shut down early to make sure they had no warranty claims.

The lack of a 2nd battery included is what would keep me from buying one.

I was in the middle of a job in the middle of nowhere and my Dewalt died, bad switch, I had no choice but to go to the nearest hardware store and pay full retail for a replacement to finish the job.

How long did you use the DeWalt for your work? How many years? I wonder if the Hercules would've lasted as long?

 

[kctyphoon]

Sorry if this has been posted, I'm too lazy to read every comment.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=673s&v=NHCS7JXfuv0


Did ya think either would get praise from him?

 

[HanShotFirst]

In an era when most tool companies are cheapening their tools, Harbor Freight just continues to get better and better. I wonder how long this trend is going to continue. The part that really surprises me is that they're gunning for the professional market...that's rather gutsy. I think they're a long ways from begin there, but it just surprises me that they're even going there.

I dont' know that they're ever going to really be industrial grade or not, but what it means for the weekend warriors is when they do buy something at HF, these days it's often a decent tool...and sometimes its a downright good tool.

 

[Thumper68]

Spoiler Alert: I said repeatedly - as in over a long period of time. The Hercules lame battery couldn't even make it without getting hot enough to turn the drill off.

It matters a lot for the average weekend warrior, who spent $100+ on a tool. It likely wouldn't matter too much for the profession, but then again, what kind of professional goes to a job in the middle of no where with only one drill and no backup?

For the average weekend warrior the HF would do just fine since it only gets used a few times a month.

How many $300+ drills am I supposed to carry? 2? 3? more?

Actually after that incident I did have a back up with me, when the one that the switch failed came back from the repair center 3 weeks later.

How long did you use the DeWalt for your work? How many years? I wonder if the Hercules would've lasted as long?

Still have it and it still works, the Nicad batteries don't last very long but it is still kicking, when it failed it was less than a year old. I also have a 26 year old Panasonic 9.6v that still works as well.

Just realize that both of these were $300+ new not $100 or even sub $200.

Had to go look it up
Inflation Results

$300 in 1991 equals $541.33 in 2017.

 

[Slednut]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=673s&v=NHCS7JXfuv0


Did ya think either would get praise from him?

The answer is in the video.

 

[kctyphoon]

here's an ACTUAL battery capacity test. 2,344 mah rating for the pack.. nowhere near ave's professional cell phone and shot glass results..

And for the record, they use Samsung cells.. not sure I'd consider them junk or "lame".

 

[American Locomotive]

For the average weekend warrior the HF would do just fine since it only gets used a few times a month.

What if it doesn't? What if it breaks? Then I'm out $100 because of its lame 90 day warranty. Things break based on the "bathtub curve". You have a high "infant mortality rate" which rapidly decreases until the tool gets old enough that most are hitting end of life.

For a weekend warrior who doesn't use their tool that often, they might still be in that "infant mortality" range for many months. A 90 day warranty is a complete and utter joke, and speaks to HF's confidence in their tool.

Low quality tools have a short warranty period.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

I was real happy with teh Jacobs metal chucks on my Milwaukee V18 drills.

And I agree with Tumper68 on the old Panasonic, My 12V drill was a great machine that got used for so much stuff that hex drivers took over when they came out.

The Hercules is the newest of the drills. They were able to study the competition during development. Therefore if they are serious in going upscale which they look to be, yes they will aim to be better. Wait until Dewalt or Makita come out with new drills and see how they do then.

I don't think Makita or Dewalt have a serious option that uses a brush motor, but i'm not about to buy either of their tools, so I might be missing something.

But if he's deriving some income (no matter how meager) while making inaccurate statements about some company's product, that just seems ... wrong.

Those same companies pay whole departments to do the same in their favor.
It's not 1800 inch pounds, its 150 foot pounds! somehow doesn't look as good.
Dewalt even gets 20 volts out of the same cells that give everyone else 18.

Overload protection coming on is never ever a bad thing. Having lax overload protection to get better peak numbers is however a bad thing. Do you really think HF's engineers somehow made a magical motor that can take way more abuse than Makita, DeWalt's, etc... 40+ years of experience? No. They're just pushing the motor harder.

Maybe not, the HF drill was heavier...