snap on s80 not made in america??

[MD11]

You can not blame other country for the US having a unionized labor rate that make the US uncompetitive. The US created the unions, now they have to live with it. China did not force their goods on US consumers. It is the US demands that drive it (it is call supply and demand if you study economic). If American can not afford its own products, how do you expect the Chinese to afford American products.

Wow... so you were serious.. ok, I"ll play..

You can not blame other country for the US having a unionized labor rate that make the US uncompetitive.

I wasn't blaming anyone.. I was pointing out that we have laws as a people that we agreed upon by our elected members of congress that protect basic rights and liberties, as well as set a standard for safety and long term viability for our planet. Of course we're not competitive with China, who said we needed to be? Our labor costs are far lower than many EU nations, and especially when you build in their government health care and social programs, we're way below..

If American can not afford its own products, how do you expect the Chinese to afford American products.

Who said anything about Americans can't afford anything? We're the spendiest consumer in the world... I couldn't care less if the Chinese can't afford our stuff... they can go to hell for all I care. Have you looked at the trade imbalance between the US and China? Who do you think is making out on that deal?

 

[Hiball]

wow... So you were serious.. Ok, i"ll play..

you can not blame other country for the us having a unionized labor rate that make the us uncompetitive.

i wasn't blaming anyone.. I was pointing out that we have laws as a people that we agreed upon by our elected members of congress that protect basic rights and liberties, as well as set a standard for safety and long term viability for our planet. Of course we're not competitive with china, who said we needed to be? Our labor costs are far lower than many eu nations, and especially when you build in their government health care and social programs, we're way below..

if american can not afford its own products, how do you expect the chinese to afford american products.

who said anything about americans can't afford anything? We're the spendiest consumer in the world... I couldn't care less if the chinese can't afford our stuff... They can go to hell for all i care. Have you looked at the trade imbalance between the us and china? Who do you think is making out on that deal?

rawr!!!!!!

 

[oldtools]

seriously.......do you really think that lowering the standard of living in this country is the answer?

Look at domestic auto unionized labor rate versus transplant non-unionized labor rate. The tranplant rate is about $15 hr (much higher than minimum labor rate) versus domestic rate of $30 or more an hour. That does not include generous benifits and purks. If the transplant worker can live on such a salary quite comfortably, why can't the union workers at domestic automakers? You don't have to have a high end 50' LCD TV.

 

[Merkava_4]

Look at domestic auto unionized labor rate versus transplant non-unionized labor rate. The tranplant rate is about $15 hr (much higher than minimum labor rate) versus domestic rate of $30 or more an hour. That does not include generous benifits and purks. If the transplant worker can live on such a salary quite comfortably, why can't the union workers at domestic automakers? You don't have to have a high end 50' LCD TV.

Bringing the automotive industry into the discussion really doesn't count since they're a special case all to themselves.

 

[oldtools]

.....Have you looked at the trade imbalance between the US and China?.....

The reason there is a trade imbalance is because the US can afford (and demand) Chinese products, but the Chinese can not afford American products.

There is no use for the US to export billion of American products to China if no one can afford to buy them. If the US want to reduce the trade imbalance, then the US need to consume less Chinese products.

 

[krusty the clown]

Look at domestic auto unionized labor rate versus transplant non-unionized labor rate. The tranplant rate is about $15 hr (much higher than minimum labor rate) versus domestic rate of $30 or more an hour. That does not include generous benifits and purks. If the transplant worker can live on such a salary quite comfortably, why can't the union workers at domestic automakers? You don't have to have a high end 50' LCD TV.

were not talking about asian tool companies building tools in THIS country now are we...........apples to apples. your argument doesn't apply to this discussion and union debates are as bad (or the same) as politics........

 

[expatriated]

All I can do is take their word for it. I can't go barging into the Tennessee facility and start looking for ratchet parts being made.

I don't know, Merk, that might settle this once and for all. I mean, all you need is a few minutes, right? I figure you got a good 10 or so before the cops get there. If you can spy the ratchets in that time, the GJ folks will all chip in for bail, and we would have solved a much-debated mystery.

 

[Hiball]

Even though the UAW is overfed it by far isnt reason for the collapse of the BIG 3.

Ford disclosed a 2.7 billion dollar loss in 2007, How many union jobs do you think those bonuses would have created? Since when does a company losing money warrant a bonus? Damn unions are behind it, I gurantee it.... and this is just ford, Gm lost 37 billion or something and gave there president 15million in bonuses..... GREED is the problem not the American worker whether there union or not.

-- Alan Mulally, Ford president and chief executive officer, earned
$2,000,000 in salary and received incentive bonus awards of $7 million.
Total 2007 compensation was $21,670,674, which includes salary,
bonuses, the Company-recognized expense for stock options and other
stock-based awards, as well as all other compensation.

-- Don Leclair, Ford executive vice president and chief financial officer,
earned $1,005,633 in salary and received incentive bonus awards of $3
million. His 2007 compensation totaled $11,703,127.

-- Mark Fields, Ford executive vice president and president, The Americas,
earned $1,255,634 in salary and received incentive bonus awards of
$2,850,000. His 2007 compensation totaled $8,389,898.

-- Lewis Booth, Ford executive vice president, Ford of Europe and Premier
Automotive Group, earned $868,133 in salary and received incentive
bonus awards of $2,250,000. His 2007 compensation totaled $10,264,463.

-- Mike Bannister, Ford executive vice president and CEO, Ford Motor
Credit Company earned $708,700 in salary and received incentive bonus
awards of $2,150,000. His 2007 compensation totaled $8,677,747.

 

[chadster1]

All I can do is take their word for it. I can't go barging into the Tennessee facility and start looking for ratchet parts being made.

Just tell them that mrshaun sent you. It will all be ok then.

 

[Merkava_4]

I don't know, Merk, that might settle this once and for all. I mean, all you need is a few minutes, right? I figure you got a good 10 or so before the cops get there. If you can spy the ratchets in that time, the GJ folks will all chip in for bail, and we would have solved a much-debated mystery.

LOL!!

 

[krusty the clown]

hey merk, fly into springfield, i'll pick you up at the airport and we'll drive down to tennessee..........it could be fun.

 

[MD11]

Even though the UAW is overfed it by far isnt reason for the collapse of the BIG 3.

Ford disclosed a 2.7 billion dollar loss in 2007, How many union jobs do you think those bonuses would have created? Since when does a company losing money warrant a bonus? Damn unions are behind it, I gurantee it.... and this is just ford, Gm lost 37 billion or something and gave there president 15million in bonuses..... GREED is the problem not the American worker whether there union or not.

-- Alan Mulally, Ford president and chief executive officer, earned
$2,000,000 in salary and received incentive bonus awards of $7 million.
Total 2007 compensation was $21,670,674, which includes salary,
bonuses, the Company-recognized expense for stock options and other
stock-based awards, as well as all other compensation.

-- Don Leclair, Ford executive vice president and chief financial officer,
earned $1,005,633 in salary and received incentive bonus awards of $3
million. His 2007 compensation totaled $11,703,127.

-- Mark Fields, Ford executive vice president and president, The Americas,
earned $1,255,634 in salary and received incentive bonus awards of
$2,850,000. His 2007 compensation totaled $8,389,898.

-- Lewis Booth, Ford executive vice president, Ford of Europe and Premier
Automotive Group, earned $868,133 in salary and received incentive
bonus awards of $2,250,000. His 2007 compensation totaled $10,264,463.

-- Mike Bannister, Ford executive vice president and CEO, Ford Motor
Credit Company earned $708,700 in salary and received incentive bonus
awards of $2,150,000. His 2007 compensation totaled $8,677,747.

BINGO! The man wins the prize!

To those of you blaming the Unions..


The collapse of the "Big 3" is purely the idiotic management.. they're the idiots who instructed the engineers to cut all possible corners and costs and make cars above only the former East Block countries in quality, and engineering.. With the exception of a handful of cars, such as the Corvette, the vast majority of American cars throughout the 80's, 90's and 2000's have been no match to the Japanese or German offerings.. Were it not for the HUGE (pardon the pun) demand for SUV's, which were just glorified Pickup trucks in terms of their design, with high margins on profit, the big 3 would have been long buried by BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Audi, Nissan, and even Hyundia.. For God's sake, it wasn't until the mid 90's that rear Disc brakes were standard on many "higher" end American cars.. The artificial demand for SUV's which died with the higher oil prices was like an IV filled with Crack for GM and Ford... now they are actually trying to make cars that people want.. and they're 30 years behind..

Chrysler is using the Mercedes W210 chassis on their newer high performance cars and that's been an order of magnitude increase in chassis technology for them... But with that said, Mercedes has since gone thru the W211 and is now on the W212 chassis for that body size.. that's how far behind Chrysler is.. and Chrysler is ahead of the other two with that segment.

THAT is why the Big 3 are fail... not the union worker.

Do you know how much a German or Japanese worker gets paid on the assembly line? Look it up...

 

[Titus]

Many forums ban discussion of Religion and Politics as they seem to have the ability to turn friends into enemies in the blink of an eye. In that same spirit, some times I wish GJ would ban all discussion of Unions.

 

[jeepnut24]

My VW is a better car for the money, AND supports US workers....How can VW make a better car here in the US AND still make money, but Ford/GM/Crysler can't???

That said, I still want the best tools for the money I have regardless of where they come from. Its a global market now, and most US companies have already saturated the US market and have to look outside for profit. After all, these companies exist to make money. We need more companies and executives that care what their customers want and less what the board wants.

 

[Merkava_4]

Many forums ban discussion of Religion and Politics as they seem to have the ability to turn friends into enemies in the blink of an eye. In that same spirit, some times I wish GJ would ban all discussion of Unions.

I know what you're saying man, but tools are tied into economics, and economics are tied into politics and labor unions. By leaving labor unions out of the discussion, we'd have to tiptoe around the tulips too much I'm thinking.

 

[Hiball]

I think discussions similar to this one is good for everyone in the long run as long as there done tastefully.I didnt wish to hijack the thread because i am very curious if my snap on dual 80 ratchets are Made in the USA, Its important to me at this juncture in my life. Snap on has been putting Made in the USA on there ratchets for YEARS and now all of a sudden they stop?? Makes absolutely NO sense to me. When i see matco ratchets with the made in the usa stamp and when the soft grip is applied its not, it leads me to believe Snap on isnt being truthful.

 

[jeepnut24]

BTW, I want one of these S80s, no matter where it comes from...

 

[woody 73]

Hiball I am with you all the way I dont think they are made in the usa...

 

[oldtools]

Merk can suggest to the local school to have a field trip to Snap On plant to learn about tool production. Merk then volunteer to come along and help.

 

[pmohr]

All I can do is take their word for it. I can't go barging into the Tennessee facility and start looking for ratchet parts being made.

But I can, it's only a 2 hour roadtrip

 

[Merkava_4]

This is how the e-mail correspondence played out between me and Tim:


This is my first message sent from the customer service page:

Hi, I have compiled a list of your U.S. manufacturing facilities. Can you tell me which one the F80 and S80 ratchets are made? Thank You

December 09, 2009 7:21:24 AM PST - Tim writes back:

Hi Vance


Those are both made in ELIZABETHTON, TN. Basically, to sum it up real easily, our STEEL/IRON hand tools are made in the USA, Most BLUEPOINT product is Asian.


Thank you

Tim

December 9, 2009 2:49:44 PM PST - My reply:

Hi Tim

Thank you for your reply. Is it safe for me to assume that the internal parts of the F80 and S80 ratchets that make up ratcheting mechanism are also made in the same Elizabethton, TN facility?

December 10, 2009 2:29:47 PM PST - Tim writes back:

yes sir, that is correct!

Thanks

Tim

There you have it.

 

[Jononon]

Good thing they're such a bastion of honesty

 

[MD11]

hmm.....

 

[BanjoSavesTheDay]

Well, I certainly don't WANT to admit it, but that's the only real evidence we have right now. Does anyone know if he is legally bound to answer truthfully?

 

[Monte]

Let him swear on the bible and then ask the question again

 

[woody 73]

I am sorry guys if it is not stamped USA then it comes from overseas. Change is coming Boys and this is the first shot....

 

[Monte]

December 09, 2009 7:21:24 AM PST - Tim writes back:

Hi Vance

Those are both made in ELIZABETHTON, TN. Basically, to sum it up real easily, our STEEL/IRON hand tools are made in the USA, Most BLUEPOINT product is Asian.

I wonder from which material they make this socket:
click it can`t be from STEEL/IRON ?? so maybe copper ? plastic ?? papier-mâché ???

 

[swoodworks]

I think we could move to a content list like you would see on food packaging. In that way the consumer can truely make an informed purchase and the manufacturer that creates 100% american content and assembly can be rewarded just like a 100% organic product has a built in market this manufacturer should reep a benefit for the expense and commitment to the American worker.

 

[chadster1]

Well, I certainly don't WANT to admit it, but that's the only real evidence we have right now. Does anyone know if he is legally bound to answer truthfully?

Tim would answer truthfully based on the information he has. The people answering the emails are just customer service agents doing their job. They have no agenda. Any decisions on where anything is produced is waaaay above his pay grade.

 

[mrshaun]

chad is correct.
The info they have comes straight from each department is snap on. They will not lie to you.

 

[mrshaun]

chad is correct.
The info they have comes straight from each department is snap on. They will not lie to you.

 

[krusty the clown]

They will not lie to you.

are you sure about that?

snap on has claimed that they make everything labled snap on, then when caught they back up and punt. they claim they make thier own pullers.......lie.they claim they make thier own crowsfoot's......lie. they claim they make thier own punches and chisels......lie.they even claimed they made thier own electric tools when they were in fact black and decker, when called on that lie they said "uhh, well, we own black and decker" another lie.


don't get me wrong, i'm a snap on fanboy but i want the truth........and i can handle the truth.

 

[Bull]

We have the same rule about politics here. Reading through this entire thread just now, there are some overt references to political topics. So, the thread might need some pruning, but I will hold off on that for now.

I would suggest that discussions of COO do not need to get political AT ALL. Unions and government policies do not need to be included in these talks.

The issue for the OP and for many of you is WHERE the tools are made, not WHY they are made in this or that place. I'm not saying those other topics are not important, they just take us into bitter territory where people start casting stones at each other. Which is why there is a no politics rule in the first place.

Many forums ban discussion of Religion and Politics as they seem to have the ability to turn friends into enemies in the blink of an eye. In that same spirit, some times I wish GJ would ban all discussion of Unions.

 

[t100]

I wonder from which material they make this socket:
click it can`t be from STEEL/IRON ?? so maybe copper ? plastic ?? papier-mâché ???

datz notin', take a look at this $153 C-clamp.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=12665&group_ID=1748&store=&dir=catalog

 

[t100]

chad is correct.
The info they have comes straight from each department is snap on. They will not lie to you.

either the management is hiding something, or the customer service dept. is not Properly trained. either way, not good.

 

[krusty the clown]

either the management is hiding something, or the customer service dept. is not Properly trained. either way, not good.

it's called subterfuge and deniability

 

[MD11]

Well, I certainly don't WANT to admit it, but that's the only real evidence we have right now. Does anyone know if he is legally bound to answer truthfully?

I am sure the customer service people (as I've called over there an talked to them) are just reading of the same website we're able to access.... the actual content of an item is apparently a secret and this is why my emails to a higher level exec (Antonio Klein) have been thus far ignored

 

[ATTappman]

If the S80 is not made in the US, does that make it perform any different? Or does it just mean that it's overpriced?

 

[krusty the clown]

If the S80 is not made in the US, does that make it perform any different?

no

Or does it just mean that it's overpriced?

yes........why pay premium prices for relabled imports that could be bought for a fration of the price?

 

[chadster1]

no
yes........why pay premium prices for relabled imports that could be bought for a fration of the price?

Playing devils advocate here. If the screws that hold the coverplate on the head were made in China, how much less in price should the ratchet be?