Tire changer newbie question.

[bford]

Hi everyone,

I just acquired a used electric/pneumatic tire changer for a good price. Being that I'm new to this tool/machine and didn't know what to look for and what to look at, I didn't realize that it's a motorcycle tire changer. It doesn't have a brand but from my research, it looks like it's a K&L MC680(or a copy of) tire changer since the base plate assembly looks the same. It just doesn't have the power arm.

I bought this thinking that it was a car tire changer and was gonna use it for changing car tires.

My question to you guys is that can I still use this for mounting/dismounting car tires? If not, is there a way I can convert it for use on car tires?

Attached is a picture of the turn table/base plate assembly (set up for motorcycle rims/tires)

Any help/suggestion/insight would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
BG

 

[IndyGarage]

Not sure how that works. Do the clamps move in and out with air pressure? It looks like they might be stationary.

If they do move in and out, then the only difference is they are raised up off the table. You could use them in the outermost position, or get some clamp brackets that are closer to the table - that will give you more room under the mount/demount arm to work with.

 

[bford]

Yes. The 4 pieces on top of the base plate moves/slides in and out with air pressure. Pretty much all the car tire machines I've seen from research don't have those bars that looks like its laying on the plate but instead they have some ramp kinda thing and a claw type assembly like THIS.

 

[IndyGarage]

Ok, so yours has the claws up in the air, because on a motorcycle wheel, the axle can stick out beyond the level of the rim edge. As long as the claws open wide enough for a car tire, you should be OK to use it as is.

I bet there is a set of claws that sit lower to the table. You may run out of room between the top of the rim and the mount/demount swing assembly with the raised jaws and a car rim. My changer looks just like the one you linked to, but has an optional set of jaws that are raised up for motorcycle tires.

You mentioned the "ramp" - that's not critical to the jaws - just used to hold the wheel up so the jaws align properly as they are closed. It looks also like those jaws on your machine are plastic - that's so they don't mar the finish on the rim - I assume they will be strong enough to clamp a car rim, but maybe not.

I would assume the mount/demount head is the same.

 

[IndyGarage]

I just looked at that model on Amazon, and it says it's made for motorcycle tires, but it looks pretty similar to the one I have, with the exception of the raised jaws. I like how you have three different pin positions on the jaws on that model.

I bet you can change car tires with it. You really don't need all the fancy assist arms - a couple of those plastic bead holders, and some small chunks of 2x2 lumber to hold the bead down as you are mounting and demounting works.

 

[bford]

Sweet. I think I get what you're saying. So basically from the looks of it, it will work with car tire use. The rim will only be raised, which means I may not be able to do wide rim/tires.

So when would you use the ones that hold the inside of the rim VS the outside lip of the rim? I'm assuming you'd use the claw that holds the rim from the outside lip if you have a nice rim that you don't want to scratch, cuz its usually padded/guarded?

 

[IndyGarage]

Yeah, I think it should work - unless for some reason the mount/demount head is smaller or weaker - but large motorcycle tires have sidewalls that are just as stiff as most car tires, so I imagine you'll be fine. You might struggle with very low profile tires - they have very stiff sidewalls. You might also need a longer tire iron to get to the bottom side of the tire.


I always use the clamps from the outside. I haven't run into a case where they need to be clamped from the inside - perhaps very large diameters need to be done that way.

I also don't worry about metal jaws on metal wheels. When I first got my changer it had plastic covers for the metal jaws. Eventually one of them broke, and the others were cracked so I threw them away and intended to get new ones but never did. I've never noticed damage from the rim clamps on aluminum wheels - and you always clamp the backside of the wheel in the jaws anyway, so it wouldn't show if there was a small mark.

 

[gdocktor3]

If that tire changer can do wide tires on bikes, you can probably get away with most vehicle tires too.

 

[bford]

Awesome.

Another question I have is with seating the bead. I have a 60gal air compressor and buddy of mine told me that I may have to get/buy something so I can seat the bead on the rim? Now I'm not sure what he's talking about because I've always thought that I just have to go and pump air into the valve with the valve core removed until I see/hear it seat.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Awesome.

Another question I have is with seating the bead. I have a 60gal air compressor and buddy of mine told me that I may have to get/buy something so I can seat the bead on the rim? Now I'm not sure what he's talking about because I've always thought that I just have to go and pump air into the valve with the valve core removed until I see/hear it seat.

Sometimes it’ll seat sometimes not. We used a cheetah. Got to be careful it’ll knock you out if you’re not holding it well

 

[IndyGarage]

I would say most of the time you can get the bead to seat without a bead blaster.

A bead blaster is a small air tank that releases a huge blast of air at the bead of the tire and inflates the tire enough that the beads seat on the rim. Some tire machines have a bead blaster built in, and some don't. You can buy a portable bead blaster, one brand is called Cheetah, which is a 3-5 gallon air tank with a pipe sticking out and a large ball valve on the pipe - you swing the valve open fast and it releases the air in a huge blast as you hold it near the bead of a tire - seating the bead.

Personally I've only had a few tires where I couldn't get the bead to seat and needed a blaster. I had one set with real weak sidewalls, and the little tires on my pressure washer. Everything else I can get done without it - a couple days ago I had one I had to mess with a little, but by putting it on the floor and leaning on the tire as I was inflating, I got it to seal enough to start inflating and push the bead on.

One thing I had to learn is you can't inflate the tire while the rim is still clamped into the tire machine - I hesitate to tell you I had to learn that the hard way.

If you are real desperate - and brave or stupid - you can always use the starting fluid and lighter method...

 

[bford]

Thanks for all these insight, tips and advice! From both of you. Really appreciate it.

I went ahead and bought a bead blaster just so I have it in cases where I can't seat the bead by just filling the tire up.

Btw Indy, you said that you've always clamped the rim from the outside. Now since I dont have the ramp, I'm guessing i'll have to basically hold and maneuver the rim/tire into place first to make sure all 4 claws are lined up and grip the rim correct? So extra work/not gonna be as easy as one with the ramp. And also gotta make sure that the tire is away from the rim a lot more then usual to get the clamp in and hold.

I actually bought this as a combo with a tire balancer. I'm also still trying to figure out what I need for the balancer to make it work for automotive use.

 

[IndyGarage]

When I'm initially clamping the wheel into the machine, I've just broken the bead on the front and the back. I set the wheel/tire on the machine and the jaws are open and in contact with the tire - then I close the jaws and at the same time wiggle the wheel a bit so it seats fully into the jaws. The tire will keep it mostly in alignment, you are just trying to get the last bit of seating.

I typically will pull the mount/demount head down near the wheel and then run the tire through a full rotation by pushing the rotate pedal - if it's not gripped in the jaws correctly, you'll be able to easily see the runout on by the head - at the same time I'm doing this I squirt some tire lube around the rim lip so the tire will come off easily. If it all looks OK, then I clamp the mounting head next to the rim and proceed to demount the tire.

After you have the tire demounted, I usually unclamp the wheel and clean it up. I also remove the old wheel weights and clean up the inside of the wheel with rags and brake cleaner (If they are rim clamp weights, I usually pull them off before I clamp into the tire machine - otherwise it's easier after the tire is off) - sometimes the bead location is corroded and needs wire brushing also - I use an angle grinder with a flat wire brush in it and just rotate the wheel around with the tire machine, then I flip the wheel over and do the other side. I'll pull the valve stem out and put a new one in.

I use the paste style tire lube/sealant on the new tire - I use a cotton swab device and get a good gob of paste on it the end and go all around the bead area and inside edge of both sides or the tire - check for alignment marks and rotation and mount the tire.

Balancing is another whole education process.

 

[ovilla]

Make sure to lube the tire (and rim if you want to too) and you’ll never have an issue setting the bead by simply putting air in the schrader valve. If needed I’ve also lifted the tire and rim (while still inflating it) about a foot off the ground and then letting it fall back to the floor. This will make the tire’s bead move towards the edges of the rim and will make it seal better too. If the tire bead is ever not seating well, use your bead breaker to compress the tire (like your taking it off again) and then use a lot more lube. Lube is your friend!


Weights
HF is a great source for sticky weights. I️ got all my other weights from Gregsmithequipment.com. Their prices are quite reasonable.

Schrader valves
Buy a 100 pack from Gregsmithequipment or NAPA for $10. Just pay attention to the Scrader valve lengths as they come in different sizes. Also, spray some windex or Murphy’s oil soap on the new schrader valve before you install it, as it will things a lot easier. The remove he old valve just use a utility knife to cut it out from the back (the inside of the rim).

Balancing wheels
Let us know what machine you have and I️ can walk you through it.

 

[bford]

Thanks for the info guys. Another question I have with the tire machine is how much pressure should I be pumping into it? Is it like a regular air tool that you put 90psi? Ijust don't want to blow the pistons on it or any of the air lines.

I have a 60gal tank that maxes @ 120psi. Can't remember the cfm of air compressor.

I'll go check the tire balancer model and report back.

 

[thatguysb]

Most just took shop Air far i saw, Have a water trap before tho. I saw 130 PSI going into some already. That had a blaster to seat the bead Preinstalled.

 

[IndyGarage]

Thanks for the info guys. Another question I have with the tire machine is how much pressure should I be pumping into it? Is it like a regular air tool that you put 90psi? Ijust don't want to blow the pistons on it or any of the air lines.

I have a 60gal tank that maxes @ 120psi. Can't remember the cfm of air compressor.

I'll go check the tire balancer model and report back.

My changer has a small regulator on the input. I don't even think it has an adjustment on it. I just plug my shop air into it at 90psi - it's always worked fine.

I don't leave the air line connected. I disconnect it when I'm not using the machine.