Question on garage light fixtures

[smalltown]

While I am working slowly on the heating and electrical I'm also inching towards making a decision on garage lighting.
I have no idea how many I would need, but I have other questions.
I do want fixtures that flush mount to the 10' ceiling, and I would like to be able to connect them with conduit in and out to form single rows.

Some people have suggested to me "buy the 8' tubes".
All I've seen is 4' LED tubes so I've crossed those out.
T12 tubes appear to be coming to an end so cross those out.

So my decision has come down to "Should I buy standard T8 fixtures (2 tube or 1), and modify to LED later, or buy a LED ready fixture that comes without a ballast.

Tonight at Home Depot I saw a third option: LED replacement "tubes" that fit into existing T8 fixtures no rewiring required.

Apparently there are two types of 4' LED tubes out there?

Can I assume that any fixture using LEDs that operates with the existing ballast transformer will use more current, than one without?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Yes, ballast compatible LED tubes use a little more power than bypass tubes. Ballast compatible are fine for existing fluorescent to LED retrofit conversions, but are not cost effective for new installations. Ballast bypass in an LED ready fixture is the way to go. See spread sheet in best light fixture thread in my sig below for current status ranking and links.

 

[Astro-t]

Just my opinion! I would go with the 4ft fixture! Now it may take more time to install but as far as cost,storage of spare 8ft lamps it out ways them! Led would be my first choice. They have a longer life.

 

[Shiftless]

a friend of mine recently installed just 2 of the Costco 4 foot LED fixtures in his 2 car garage. He loves 'em!
Way more light than his previous 2 fixtures (4foot twin bulb T12s with reflectors)
Enough for his needs he says.
But the longevity of those units has yet to be proven.

I suggest getting a few for a trial run. If you don't like them, Costco will give you your money back. I think he paid about $40 each.

Just install receptacle boxes in the ceiling and plug them in. Or cut off the plug and hardwire but that will void your warrantee.

Do it once and be happy about it from day 1.

BTW, listen to Platonic Solid he knows his stuff!

 

[cybrdyke]

While I am working slowly on the heating and electrical I'm also inching towards making a decision on garage lighting.
I have no idea how many I would need, but I have other questions.
I do want fixtures that flush mount to the 10' ceiling, and I would like to be able to connect them with conduit in and out to form single rows.

Some people have suggested to me "buy the 8' tubes".
All I've seen is 4' LED tubes so I've crossed those out.
T12 tubes appear to be coming to an end so cross those out.

So my decision has come down to "Should I buy standard T8 fixtures (2 tube or 1), and modify to LED later, or buy a LED ready fixture that comes without a ballast.

Tonight at Home Depot I saw a third option: LED replacement "tubes" that fit into existing T8 fixtures no rewiring required.

Apparently there are two types of 4' LED tubes out there?

Can I assume that any fixture using LEDs that operates with the existing ballast transformer will use more current, than one without?

You can get the 2 lamp T8 fixture at Home Depot for $28.67 each. Add in 2 Philips 17T8 LED tubes at 9.97 each. $48.61 total per fixture. 4000 lumens @ 40 total watts (100 lpw).
Pick them up on your way home.....Easy peasy.
Good luck.
CD

 

[Platonic Solid]

Price for 10 2-lamp 4ft LED bypass fixtures:

18W James LED Bypass $10.99 x 20 = $220 + Free Shipping
(Be sure to get frosted lens)

MaxLite LED Ready Strip Hsg $12.50 x 10 = $125.00 + $20 shipping

Total = $365 / 10 = $36.50 per complete fixture (all tax and shipping included),
4320 lumens, 36W, 120 Lumens per Watt

 

[rsnip988]

Price for 10 2-lamp 4ft LED bypass fixtures:

18W James LED Bypass $10.99 x 20 = $220 + Free Shipping
(Be sure to get frosted lens)

MaxLite LED Ready Strip Hsg $12.50 x 10 = $125.00 + $20 shipping

Total = $365 / 10 = $36.50 per complete fixture (all tax and shipping included),
4320 lumens, 36W, 120 Lumens per Watt

I think you just made my decision very easy as I've been waffling!
Thanks Platonic

 

[Platonic Solid]

I wouldn't expect to see prices fall lower than this for > 2100 lumen LED bulbs. Going forward we'll see higher efficiency, which means slightly higher lumen output, and likely higher prices.

 

[Lootenny]

I just pulled the trigger on 30 of those complete fixtures! Thanks for the heads up Platonic!

 

[DC73]

I recently put these in my workshop (also 10' ceilings):

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...al-Electronic-Ballast-C-2-32-120-RE/205431587

They come with residential grade ballasts and so should not interfere with radio reception the way commercial ballasts might. I went ahead and lamped with T8 lamps. By the time I need to relamp, LED tubes should be cheaper, better, more readily available and with a good selection.

DC

 

[papavolume]

I am curious, how big is your garage that you need 10 fixtures?

 

[My Old Tools]

a friend of mine recently installed just 2 of the Costco 4 foot LED fixtures in his 2 car garage. He loves 'em!
Way more light than his previous 2 fixtures (4foot twin bulb T12s with reflectors)
Enough for his needs he says.
But the longevity of those units has yet to be proven.

I suggest getting a few for a trial run. If you don't like them, Costco will give you your money back. I think he paid about $40 each.

Just install receptacle boxes in the ceiling and plug them in. Or cut off the plug and hardwire but that will void your warrantee.

Do it once and be happy about it from day 1.

BTW, listen to Platonic Solid he knows his stuff!

I have 16 of them in my shop. $35.99 each. Zero failures. Tons of light.

 

[smalltown]

Platonic thanks for the links. I talked with the war dept, and I will be buying the linked fixtures and led lamps. I just need to figure out just how many of each I think I need.
I have to locate your other link to the software to plug in my garage dimensions.
Never thought I could afford LEDs before now!

 

[smalltown]

I found that link to the Visual tool software, but I'm not sure I am using it correctly.
Here is a drawing of my garage layout. The only thing not on my "Visual Interior Tool" is lighting over each work bench area. I just imagined 1 double lamp fixture over each of the work benches. My Visual plan indicates 28 fixtures does that seem right? Seems quite high, but maybe it's just because it's led lamps?
Did I input my information wrong?

I was hoping for three rows of lights 1 over the right side of the vehicle, the second between vehicles, and the third to the left of the the second vehicle.
Lighting over one work bench may have a minor problem with the exhaust pipe for my hanging heater.

 

[Platonic Solid]

smalltown - The storage on the right seems oddly placed. If you put 2 cars in there on the center line of the garage doors, there's practically no space between the right vehicle and the right hand storage. Not much point trying to light an area that people can't fit in. Can't all the tall storage be consolidated to the left somehow? A real picture of the area might help.

 

[p_mori7]

I have a 16' wide by 30' deep garage.

I went with 6 T8 fixtures.

Paid $14 ea on sale at local hardware store, plus $6 for each 4' tube (12 in total).

Flush mounted to cieling and surface hardwired.

I love how bright it is in the garage now !

 

[Platonic Solid]

p mori7 - Can't beat classic fluorescents for value. Interesting - I've never seen a black garage door. I think I'd get the white paint out for that one and maybe splurge on some romex connectors.

 

[p_mori7]

p mori7 - Can't beat classic fluorescents for value. Interesting - I've never seen a black garage door. I think I'd get the white paint out for that one and maybe splurge on some romex connectors.

The door is chocolate brown.

The wiring is 14/2 armored.

 

[CSRPenFab]

I just replaced 4 twin bulb 4' fluorescent builder grade fixtures in my 3.5 car garage with 5 twin tube LED shop lights from Sam's club. Wow, 10x more light and much fewer bugs are attracted. For the price, I'm very happy with this retrofit. Hard to pass up at $35 per fixture. http://www.samsclub.com/sams/4ft-led-shoplight-shoplight-led/prod16460030.ip?navAction=

 

[Platonic Solid]

CSRPenFab - That's a hanging shop light with undiffused LEDs that doesn't meet any of the OPs criteria: "I do want fixtures that flush mount to the 10' ceiling, and I would like to be able to connect them with conduit in and out to form single rows.".

 

[smalltown]

Platonic here are a few pictures. Some are before I added storage shelving, but give better idea of the colors. Quite a mess as I sift through all the boxes I have been living out of, plus the ongoing electrical conduit install and the ceiling heater that's finally going to be installed (thimble installed on rear right wall). The right side storage does impinge on the bay at this point, however it will be used for a tractor that is narrower than a normal auto. If I opt to build an outside implement storage shed I could move this storage rack to the rear left of the garage. The right rear corner is where I plan to build the "L" shaped work bench.

I would like to figure out the proper number of light fixtures/placement assuming the storage shelving on the right was not there.

 

[Platonic Solid]

With 21 fixtures (thus 42 bulbs) in an empty room = 3 end-to-end mounted strips of 7 running front-to-back, I'm only getting 65fc at 30" work plane. Need to figure out where to put more fixtures or change to a higher output option.

 

[Platonic Solid]

This is the best I can do with your space with all the restrictions.
This is using the James LED lamps and housings linked in post #6.

Click here for PDF report w/fixture qty.

All images linked to larger views

 

[smalltown]

Platonic thanks for your time. Next spring I am thinking I will build an outside shed to house the implement rack that is against the left rear wall, which will allow me to relocate the storage rack from the right side wall to the rear wall on the left. I appreciate your responding, and all the links to the software!

 

[Lootenny]

Platonic, here's a pic of the fixture referenced in the thread. Notice the labeling on the sockets, they've got the white labeled line and the black labeled neutral. The instructions simply say "connect the wire."

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff51/inkedfireman/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsslawrrbo.jpeg

Any experience wiring these up? Do I follow the label or the color?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Platonic Solid]

Platonic, here's a pic of the fixture referenced in the thread. Notice the labeling on the sockets, they've got the white labeled line and the black labeled neutral. The instructions simply say "connect the wire."

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff51/inkedfireman/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsslawrrbo.jpeg

Any experience wiring these up? Do I follow the label or the color?

OK, that picture just made me laugh. I have to save that one. Good way to start the day.

Anyway, to answer your question: Always follow the wire color, but realistically, the wires are in a lamp holder that permits you to rotate the lamp 360°, thus it really doesn't matter.

I assume the lamp holders on the other end have no such labeling, thus the only purpose of the label is to identify the "live" end, not identify which pin is neutral and which is hot. (it's still funny though).

 

[Lootenny]

Thanks! I didn't even notice the bunny being in the background when I took the pic! You are correct, there are no labels or wires at the other end of the fixture. I didn't think it mattered, but I didn't want to take any chances either. My powers of assumption know no limits!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Platonic Solid]

In response to this post by smalltown in another thread:

Platonic the only difference now is that I took your suggestion, and relocated the storage unit that was on the right hand side. It is now on the rear left wall. Let me draw something simple and post it with a photograph.

Here is the modified hand drawing with the implement storage rack removed, and showing the storage rack moved to the rear left.
I included 3 photos to show as it stands. Messy but getting there slowly.
Because of my ceiling heater the original 4 light you suggested will not be flush mounted. I will hang them down from something. I would like to install cabinets over my workbench "L" shape in the rear right corner.

I do like the Maxlite ...4803 fixture they appear to be a good quality from what has been posted.

What I would do today is quite different from my recommendation over 2 years ago.

Qty. 20 - 2ft x 2ft Flat panel LED - 40 Watt - Dimmable - DLC 4.0 Premium - 5,000 Lumens - LumeGen

$38 ea. (link) x 20 = $760
+
Qty. 20 - Surface Mounting Kit = $20 ea. (link)

$20 x 20 = $400

Total = $1160

Dialux PDF Report (link). See page 2 for mounting dimensions.

​

 

[smalltown]

Platonic Thanks your the best !
I must admit that I was expecting a fast ball, and a knuckleball went passed.
Looking at the surface mount kit I would need to drill them out to feed them with them my EMT conduit. I also wonder about future replacements if any panels should fail.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Platonic Thanks your the best !
I must admit that I was expecting a fast ball, and a knuckleball went passed.
Looking at the surface mount kit I would need to drill them out to feed them with them my EMT conduit. I also wonder about future replacements if any panels should fail.

Yes, you will need to drill them for EMT. I would use 7/8" diameter Greenlee punch.

I expect LED edge lit panels to be around for quite a while. Finding replacements in the future should be easy. You would only be replacing the LED panel, the surface mounting box is universal.

 

[smalltown]

Platonic sometime please take a look at this. I have been trying to teach myself how to use the Dialux 7.1 software. Tried to upload the .evo, but it exceeds the allowable upload size.

Do you think this might work as no lights will be blocked when a vehicle is in the garage bay ? I couldn't figure yet how to draw the hanging heater. Maybe I should eliminate the 2x4 light over the work bench, and try two of the 2x2 on either side of the heater over the workbench. Couldn't figure how to get the second 2x2 luminary when I have the 2x4 in the program.

These light are the LumeGen 2x4 9000Lm

P.S. I come around to liking the Epanels, and intend on wiring up a dimmer.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I assume you did the math and understand that 12 2x4 fixtures with surface mounting kits (total 108,000 Lm) will cost $100 more than 20 2x2 fixtures with surface mounting kits (total 100,000 Lm).

Light Loss Factor for LEDs should be changed to 0.90.

I would push the first horizontal row of 2x4s closer to the wall or the vehicle will block those lights.

 

[smalltown]

Platonic thanks the Light loss factor made a big difference.
I tried moving the first row closer to the outside wall. The simulation seems to show a lot of reflection when the edge of the light fixture is 2 feet from the wall. At what point should I be concerned about reflection ?

What surprised me about the 2x2 lay out was there is less square feet of fixture on the ceiling. 80 Sq. " for the 2x2, and 96 Sq.' with the 2x4. But won't a vehicle block more light in the 2x2 layout ?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Trying to reduce glare from reflected wall light yet getting light between the car and the wall is a balancing act. Getting light between the car and the wall is more important than glare reduction from reflected light. You can try to keep the reflected wall light hot spots near to highest workplane result.

Regarding vehicles blocking light: Put some cars in there and check the results.

 

[ddawg16]

I assume you did the math and understand that 12 2x4 fixtures with surface mounting kits (total 108,000 Lm) will cost $100 more than 20 2x2 fixtures with surface mounting kits (total 100,000 Lm).

Light Loss Factor for LEDs should be changed to 0.90.

I would push the first horizontal row of 2x4s closer to the wall or the vehicle will block those lights.

I really like the flat panels.

I used 18 6" recessed cans in my garage. I now have LED's in them vs CFL's (long story).

Anyway, I do a lot of wood working and I didn't want to be taking out a tube when swinging a chunk of lumber around.

I'm very happy with the cans....but, if the flat panels had been an option when I was doing my garage, that is the way I would have gone.

Additionally, I'm a fan of task lighting. I'd rather have decent general lighting and add additional task lighting as needed.

 

[smalltown]

Platonic could you be of any help ? I have tried searching the catalogs to download the 2x2 similar to the Lumgen. So far I have only found one, but it did not have the option for 5000Lm

 

[Platonic Solid]

I use the Lithonia E PANL (link). You should be able to tweak the lumen output and fixture wattage within the program.

 

[smalltown]

Platonic thanks.
Platonic yes I had already downloaded that, and when I tried to place it in my project it showed up as round. I'll try again.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Lithonia's IES files can sometimes be very questionable. I've had to fix many errors in them. You really need to get a better graphics card so you can run V7.1 as it permits you to fix some IES flaws. You are getting into an area that requires more technical experience than I'm willing to get into.

 

[smalltown]

Platonic I am running Dialux 7.1. It must be me doing something wrong. I'll keep working at it.