Good Tap and Die kit suggestions

[Katodog]

HUH?
so I've been using them wrong for 40 years?

Well at least I can feel better knowing you've been doing it wrong longer than I have...

 

[PFSard]

Must be a secret because I've been creating threads for over 30 years with hex dies and nobody ever told me I couldn't do it...

Same for me. Absolutely no issues. My hex dies are made to cut threads.

Here's a Web Page that may shed light on the issue :

Dies
http://www.icscuttingtools.com/Dies.htm

The page has sections on (1) HEXAGON THREADING DIES and (2) HEXAGON RETHREADING DIES.

 

[ez-duzit]

This is approximately what you'll find stated on common tap & die sets with hex dies.
"...helps you overcome damaged nuts, bolts and threads...this tap and die set makes it easy to remove imperfections from threads."
https://www.craftsman.com/products/craftsman-75-piece-combination-tap-die-carbon-steel-set

 

[shawhite]

Hex dies are for chasing existing threads, not creating new ones.

Absolutely incorrect. The outside shape of the die has nothing to do with its intended purpose. It’s the cutter shape that determines if it’s a rethreader or thread cutter. There are round and hex rethreading dies and there are round and hex thread cutting dies.

https://www.icscuttingtools.com/Dies.htm

 

[apollo11]

Phew!
I'm relieved

 

[apollo11]

The biggest problem with any threading die, weather round, hex, split, whatever, is getting the stock turned to the correct dimension. It's as important to get it correct as it is for using a tap.

Fortunately when using a tap, you can dial in the pilot hole to the exact diameter required using drills common in most any drill index.

But it's difficult to get round bar stock the correct diameter, and to get it exact, you need to turn the stock on a lathe.

And if at that point it's easier to cut the threads on the lathe, rather that bother using any type of die.

not if you don't own a lathe

 

[Jacobson]

Dies are for cutting threads into blank bolts? I will never need that.
I would like to get a couple of high quality metric taps for auto use.
Can anyone suggest something?

 

[Jacobson]

If you're working on mostly metric vehicles, a second tap in 5, 6 and 8 mm will do 90 percent of what you need!

I am confused by your wording.
A second tap in 5,6,8mm. Is that a single tap, or 3 of them?
What size is the first tap, you did not mention.

Is this true?
For metric auto, the most commonly used is 6mm x 1.0, 8mm x 1.25, 10mm x 1.25

 

[Jacobson]

Greenfield done.

Where do you buy these? I don't see anything online.

 

[apollo11]

Dies are for cutting threads into blank bolts? I will never need that.
I would like to get a couple of high quality metric taps for auto use.
Can anyone suggest something?

I've had to cut threads on steel and aluminum rods on occasion

 

[Rarified27]

I've had to cut threads on steel and aluminum rods on occasion

I just had to do this while building an axle for a small cart.

An 18" piece of smooth rod running the length of a metal frame, fed through holes on each side with threads cut into the ends. Threaded rod would have destroyed the frame over time.

 

[Fretters]

I am confused by your wording.
A second tap in 5,6,8mm. Is that a single tap, or 3 of them?
What size is the first tap, you did not mention.

Is this true?
For metric auto, the most commonly used is 6mm x 1.0, 8mm x 1.25, 10mm x 1.25

Straight flute taps are supplied in 3 types. 1st has a notable taper on the first few threads, hence the starting tap. 2nd has less of a taper, and 3rd has none, so can run threads to the bottom of a blind hole.

 

[PFSard]

Where do you buy these? I don't see anything online.

Search for : greenfield tap and die set

I used to pick them up at estate sales for cheap money.

 

[Dave455]

I am confused by your wording.
A second tap in 5,6,8mm. Is that a single tap, or 3 of them?
What size is the first tap, you did not mention.

Is this true?
For metric auto, the most commonly used is 6mm x 1.0, 8mm x 1.25, 10mm x 1.25

Sorry, I should explain.

Taps normally come in set's of 3, called a 'taper' 'second' and 'bottom' (in English 'plug' in American)

If you want to tap a deep blind hole, you start with the taper. As the name suggests, the tool is tapered so it's easy to start

You then move to the second, which has much less taper, then finally the plug, which will cut to about one thread from the bottom of the hole.

If you buy taps in sets, you usually get a taper, second and plug for each size, but generally only need the second. Very few automotive applications involve threading a hole so deep you need the taper, and again, you seldom need the plug, hence my suggestion just to get a 'second' in each popular size!

Yep, 6, 8 and 10 if you prefer!

 

[Jacobson]

Sorry, I should explain.

Taps normally come in set's of 3, called a 'taper' 'second' and 'bottom' (in English 'plug' in American)

If you want to tap a deep blind hole, you start with the taper. As the name suggests, the tool is tapered so it's easy to start

You then move to the second, which has much less taper, then finally the plug, which will cut to about one thread from the bottom of the hole.

If you buy taps in sets, you usually get a taper, second and plug for each size, but generally only need the second. Very few automotive applications involve threading a hole so deep you need the taper, and again, you seldom need the plug, hence my suggestion just to get a 'second' in each popular size!

Yep, 6, 8 and 10 if you prefer!

Got it. You're saying you don't need the taper and plug taps, since you're typically dealing with an existing hole. So just get the second. And the size common for cars are 5,6,8,10mm. So that makes 4 taps total, as a starter kit, right?

 

[JR7]

At work I use fractional and have the 76 pc Irwin set. It's been good enough for what I use it for.

At home I need metric more and only have a small Craftsman set that's been useful, but limited in sizes. I have a car project coming up and figured it was time to get something with more range. I've had my eyes on the Astro automotive set (7582) for a while and decided to take a chance on it. Never bought anything from them before so I'm not sure of the quality but imagine it'll be good enough.

 

[Fretters]

Got it. You're saying you don't need the taper and plug taps, since you're typically dealing with an existing hole. So just get the second.

You rarely need a starting/taper tap. A 2nd tap will work fine for pretty much everything, including creating a new thread, and the bottoming tap is only needed for blind holes. There's not many more ways we can phrase it. Just buy a second tap for each size; That's all you need.

 

[Dave455]

Got it. You're saying you don't need the taper and plug taps, since you're typically dealing with an existing hole. So just get the second. And the size common for cars are 5,6,8,10mm. So that makes 4 taps total, as a starter kit, right?

What fretters said above!

Yes, just get the 4 taps discussed and you will be fine.

 

[6PTsocket]

Might be better just buying a few loose taps (and dies if needed).

If you're working on mostly metric vehicles, a second tap in 5, 6 and 8 mm will do 90 percent of what you need!

Get them loose from maybe MSC, and you will probably get far better quality than come in a lot of sets.

The sets I see geared towards the automotive trades, with the exception of SnapOn and the like, tend to be of relatively low quality compared to the sort of thing the engineering trades use!

I once helped a friend restore a mini (original one). Don't think we used anything other than 1/4 and 5/16 UNF taps!

Once you pick up a few taps you will find yourself using them a lot!

The Snap On taps and dies are rebranded carbon steel from Hanson. They are maintenance grade stuff. Industrial taps and dies are High Speed Steel but being marked HSS is no guarranty either, as a lot of stuff marked HSS is junk from China. The only assurance of quality is to buy a reputable brand which will definitely be HSS. Carbon steel is hard and brittle and therefore more prone to breakage. For tapping aluminum or mild steel they can give good service.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Lelandwelds]

Greenfield done.

Pretty well sums up this discussion.

Search for : greenfield tap and die set

I used to pick them up at estate sales for cheap money.

I have had really good results from Greenfield. They market their drills under the name Cleveland or Cle-Line. Better quality than Irwin or Vermont American. Go to an industrial supply house. (Not automotive or farm and ranch or big box). Buy what they recommend.

 

[b.well]

The biggest love for Taps and Dies seems to be for Greenfield. I think there are a number of solid recommendations but I have found a somewhat local (2hrs away) Greenfield Tap and Die set No. 311 (1/4"-3/4") for sale. Not what I would consider an estate sale price, but better than ebay I think; asking $80. In the wooden box, condition looks good.

What value would you pay?
Any idea what the size and weight is if I go the shipping route?

Thanks!

 

[Noworries]

My sae set runs from 6-32 to 1 1/8-12 and its every bit of 20 lbs thats just the taps and dies your set with a wooden box and tap handles and die stock might run in the 12-13ish lb range. If the set is mostly unused 80 is a good price for hss. I just goodled greenfield tap and die sets.. saw a 45 piece carbon steel set for 2200 bucks!! Insane

 

[b.well]

Thanks. The seller responded to me that the set was available but now just reads my messages and never writes back. Strange.

I found what I think is an older set from craftsman. I've read Greenfield use to make the Craftsman tap/die sets. This is Set 5499. 1/4" - 3/4" but coarse only. I've never seen Dies that are two separate pieces like this. Also from FB Market. Paid $50 shipped.

 

[ez-duzit]

...I found what I think is an older set from craftsman...

Looks like carbon steel, not HSS. And probably for re-threading, not creating threads.

 

[bob15]

Thanks. The seller responded to me that the set was available but now just reads my messages and never writes back. Strange.

I found what I think is an older set from craftsman. I've read Greenfield use to make the Craftsman tap/die sets. This is Set 5499. 1/4" - 3/4" but coarse only. I've never seen Dies that are two separate pieces like this. Also from FB Market. Paid $50 shipped.

Look up Greenfied Little Giant.

FYI: Greenfield still makes 2 piece dies. There is nothing wrong with them and they work just fine tapping purposes. https://www.gfii.com/pc_product_detail.asp?p_key=39E95939EDBA46A9901F9C2F72C34F6B

 

[ez-duzit]

...Greenfield still makes 2 piece dies. There is nothing wrong with them...

Except for their being carbon steel.

 

[bob15]

Except for their being carbon steel.

And TiN coated dies are better than HSS. So what if you aren't doing production work?

Have you ever used the Greenfield 2 piece dies before? I haven't had any issues with them.

 

[ez-duzit]

And TiN coated dies are better than HSS. So what if you aren't doing production work?

Have you ever used the Greenfield 2 piece dies before? I haven't had any issues with them.

None of my work is production work. But most of it is stainless steel. So I have no use at all for carbon steel. Adjustable HSS dies are best.

 

[richfinn]

Just get taps and hex dies in the sizes your going to actually use, tap sockets let you use regular extensions and ratchets for tapping and regular sockets or wrenches on the hex dies. You just wont have room to use proper tap and die tools working on cars unless you take the part off the vehicle to the bench (generally)

A thread file is useful if your not familiar with thread pitch sizes.

I only deal with metric

 

[bob15]

None of my work is production work. But most of it is stainless steel. So I have no use at all for carbon steel. Adjustable HSS dies are best.

Might want to look at TiN coated dies....they will last longer yet

 

[b.well]

Looks like carbon steel, not HSS. And probably for re-threading, not creating threads.

Looks like i started a bit of a thread frenzy

Why do you think the vintage craftsman set is only for rethreading? It's listed as tap and die. It even has the die looking guides to help keep a straight cut on longer material.

I picked up an "ACE Super Set" tap die set from 4x36 to 1/2" coarse and fine. Estate Sale, $10. What material is it? You all seem to be able to tell easily. Considered good quality?

I needed a 3/4" coarse for a vise restore. I do have an old craftsman rethreader up to 3/4" but fine only so I thought the 1/4" to 3/4" coarse only set I bought was a good fit and it was less than 1/2 what the same set was selling for on ebay.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[bob15]

Looks like i started a bit of a thread frenzy

Why do you think the vintage craftsman set is only for rethreading? It's listed as tap and die. It even has the die looking guides to help keep a straight cut on longer material.

I picked up an "ACE Super Set" tap die set from 4x36 to 1/2" coarse and fine. Estate Sale, $10. What material is it? You all seem to be able to tell easily. Considered good quality?

I needed a 3/4" coarse for a vise restore. I do have an old craftsman rethreader up to 3/4" but fine only so I thought the 1/4" to 3/4" coarse only set I bought was a good fit and it was less than 1/2 what the same set was selling for on ebay.

Thanks for all the input.

The only issue some people have with Carbon Steel dies is that they tend to wear out faster than HSS, and TiN coated HSS dies take even longer to wear out than HSS.

Is there an issue using? No.

Are they a Tap? Yes.

Can you make new threads with them? Absolutely yes.

Can the 2 cutter pieces inside be replaced with newer, sharper dies? I am 99.54% sure they are the same as the greenfield Lille Giant.

 

[jeffmoss26]

Greenfield, Norseman, US made Hanson