Good Tap and Die kit suggestions

[subzero32]

Yesterday I was helping out a friend at work and had to drill out the license plate screws that were seized beyond belief despite lots of penetrating oil and an extraction set that broke inside it. We used self taping screws which worked fine but I thought this would have been better if I could have taped new threads and bought the correct bolt to put in it. What kits doe people suggest for someone that may only use it a hand full of times a year. Thanks.

 

[Dave455]

Might be better just buying a few loose taps (and dies if needed).

If you're working on mostly metric vehicles, a second tap in 5, 6 and 8 mm will do 90 percent of what you need!

Get them loose from maybe MSC, and you will probably get far better quality than come in a lot of sets.

The sets I see geared towards the automotive trades, with the exception of SnapOn and the like, tend to be of relatively low quality compared to the sort of thing the engineering trades use!

I once helped a friend restore a mini (original one). Don't think we used anything other than 1/4 and 5/16 UNF taps!

Once you pick up a few taps you will find yourself using them a lot!

 

[shawhite]

DIY grade Hanson/Irwin. If you want to spend a little more for the same set snap-on. If you want better yet go HSS (Norseman, Chicago Latrobe, butterfield, etc)

 

[Katodog]

Gearwrench 75pc tap and die set. Cheap, it can be found around $140, and it's all you'd ever need. I have one at home and one at work, use them all the time and have had zero issues.

 

[dogdog]

I think one of the vendor here were selling a mechanics set last year with all the common odd ball size made for auto mechanics. I just remember Japanese alloy..... maybe you can search it here. I personally just have the HF set for SAE and the similiar HSS set from Ebay for metric both works well.... and off cause that thread restorer sets from Craftsman. It comes in Handy sometimes, but as in any tools goes, nothing is gorilla proof.

This thread...

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336475

 

[jonesg]

Yesterday I was helping out a friend at work and had to drill out the license plate screws that were seized beyond belief despite lots of penetrating oil and an extraction set that broke inside it. We used self taping screws which worked fine but I thought this would have been better if I could have taped new threads and bought the correct bolt to put in it. What kits doe people suggest for someone that may only use it a hand full of times a year. Thanks.

Emergency one off taps are easily made by cutting slots in a bolt with dremel carbide cutoff disk, if it looks like a tap it will be ok in non critical situations. Works fine in alum and nylon.

 

[383 240z]

The best advice I ever got on thread cutting tools was, "Don't buy a kit." Buy what you need as you need. Of course, you will want to buy the super common ones all at once, the 1/2"x13, the 1/4"x20's. If you are more of a metric kind of guy, the 14mmx2.00 and 6mmx1.00's. My go-to source was Enco, now MSC. Good tools at a decent price. I have never been happy with the taps found at Lowes/Home Depot, I could never get them to gage properly.

For taps, I picked up these super cool holders that hold the taps, tap drill, and the through drill all in one nice convenient place. Of course, they don't hold all the sizes, but a good amount of them.

 

[dogdog]

problem with that is you never know what size you needed when things breaks... so I broke a M14x1.5 bolt one time or a M8x1.0, the some times I strips the 1/4-20 most of the times I get it covered with the general size kit. Unless that store is right next to me, or I am willing to wait 2+ days for the order, it's hard to order "as needed" in these situations... except the really oddball thread, I wanted 1/2-28 for an oil burner nozzle, just end up buying the whole nozzle assembly.

 

[jabberwoki]

Greenfield done.

 

[marinusdees]

HS steel, not carbon steel. But, be prepared to pay the price. And, all HS steel is not created equal. Even though it now (apparently) all comes from Guangzhou. If money is a problem, buy what you need in HS steel. After awhile, if you are younger than I am, you will have an assortment. That said, I have a couple of sets (that can find, maybe more) of carbon taps and dies. If you are obscenely wealthy, buy carbide. I am not (obscenely wealthy) so I broke down and own one set of HS steel. Haven't broken one yet. Not a lot of use. And, NEVER EVER try to tap a hole 14-40. Or, hope to be (extremely) lucky.

 

[four.cycle]

[QUOTE="383240Z']The best advice I ever got on thread cutting tools was, "Don't buy a kit." Buy what you need as you need.[/QUOTE]

^ this.

I bought a little Ace-Hanson tap kit about 50 years ago - machine thread from 4-40 to 1/4-20 with drill bits and a little "T" handle.
As the years went by, I picked up taps and dies as I needed them - onesie-twosies at the local hardware store. They're all Ace Hanson or Irwin.
Today I own a complete "set" of taps and dies from 4-40 up to 1/2-20 (and everthing in between.)
I have taps and dies that have never been taken out of the packages yet.

Only problem is that I don't have a fancy-schmantzy box in which to store all the pieces neatly arranged by size.

I had a full 40-piece "Columbia" (TRW) metric tap & die set that I gave to a buddy of mine about 20 years ago. If I need to re-work a metric hole I'll give him a call.

Just get what you need. Pick 'em up as you go along. Sooner or later you'll have every damn one of them.



On the other hand, if you're aspiring to be a machinist when you grow up, by all means go big and buy the whole enchilada now. Don't go cheap though - get good stuff.

==

this Ebay seller bought out a warehouse of Irwin inventory and has some good prices on drills/taps/dies (and other Irwin stuff):
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nk...&_sasl=toolandpartcrib&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50

(I usually get 20%-25% off from him depending on how much I buy. YMMV.)

 

[Mr Ratchet]

I have a larger Craftsman set I got years ago and I like it a lot and use it quite a bit. I've recently added some taps and dies (Irwin) in sizes that I did not have. They are pricey going that route. I'd second the Gearwrench set except i'd opt for the 114 piece set. Their sets also come with ratcheting handles. I've been thinking of buying the Gearwrench handle set to compliment the set I already have.

 

[Kaane]

The Harbor Freight kit is surprisingly good. The Alloy steel one. I've used a bunch of times and they are holding up fine. The cheap kit is useless. The tap handles ****, but the taps are good.

https://www.harborfreight.com/45-pc...ted-alloy-steel-metric-tap-die-set-61410.html

 

[vssjim]

May want look at the new Astro Tool sets. They are fairly good sets for automotive use as they picked sizes and pitches that are popular for modern cars not a bunch of stuff you will never use.

 

[CobraRed]

May want Astro Tool sets look fairly good

Found a video

 

[strength_and_power]

Norseman sells the combos, tap and proper size drill bit which works great providing you don’t lose one or the other. I would say only get the common sizes rather than a kit and add to it as needed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PNWguy]

I don't use dies very often, so when I needed to restock, I bought Irwin kits of taps only (one metric & one SAE).

I've been very happy with them, and the price was good. Not too cheap, but not Snap-On prices either. For occasional use, I think they are solid.

 

[ishiboo]

I have the big GearWrench set. I love it. It's reasonably priced and has all the parts you will likely need.

I will probably augment it at some point with the Norseman/Viking 57580. It has all the common SAE sizes of Made in USA, HSS taps... paired with the correct size Made in USA HSS drill bit. For a reasonable price.

It's been probably a decade since I've used a die. All taps for me, and that is still infrequent.

 

[subzero32]

Great suggestions by everyone. I'll start researching all the brands suggested and see what I like. Seems like I swear I'll buy a set after completing a project that would have really benefited from it and just forget about it. I'm going to be proactive this time and buy a quality set that will last a lifetime.

 

[kabinenroller]

Why has the shape of the die not been mentioned? I have a Craftsman SAE set and a matching metric set, they both have hex shaped dies. The hex shape is nice because it can be used with a die handle or a wrench or even a socket. The round dies rely on a set screw to hold them in the die wrench and they are useless without that particular wrench.
That is the main reason I have the Craftsman sets, I also have random brands of taps and dies that are not sets for the uncommon sizes.

 

[apollo11]

The Harbor Freight kit is surprisingly good. The Alloy steel one. I've used a bunch of times and they are holding up fine. The cheap kit is useless. The tap handles ****, but the taps are good.

https://www.harborfreight.com/45-pc...ted-alloy-steel-metric-tap-die-set-61410.html

I prefer HEX dies but I guess that would work for a DIYer

 

[apollo11]

Why has the shape of the die not been mentioned? I have a Craftsman SAE set and a matching metric set, they both have hex shaped dies. The hex shape is nice because it can be used with a die handle or a wrench or even a socket. The round dies rely on a set screw to hold them in the die wrench and they are useless without that particular wrench.
That is the main reason I have the Craftsman sets, I also have random brands of taps and dies that are not sets for the uncommon sizes.

I was wondering about that too.

 

[ItsNemo]

I disagree with people about only buying individuals as needed...you tend to need the tap/die you don't have at 10pm on a Sunday night when nothing is open. Buy the full set to start with and replace the most commonly used ones with higher quality as necessary. For chasing existing threads or tapping into mild steel, the ones in a decent set will work just fine.

I have the largest Gearwrench set as well as a Mastercraft set and also have the snap on set of rethreaders for just cleaning things up. Haven't ever broke a single tap or die in any of these sets with normal home owner use. If you go slow, make sure you don't push at an angle, back off to clear chips, use cutting fluid, etc...even the cheapest taps and dies will work.

 

[dr_clyde]

My advice is to not buy a kit. Buy good quality singles from the industrial supply.

Hex dies are not adjustable, good die buttons are. They are round, and have a couple indentations where the die stock engages them.

Hex dies are great for chasing a thread already cut, but a die button allows you to take a different depth of cut, and as a result you get better threads because you can adjust the chip load.

Taps come in several geometries, as well as grades of steel. It all depends on what you're threading. I personally have zero use for the carbon steel kits, or kits in general.

I buy mostly spiral point and spiral flute HSS taps from Union Butterfield, OSG or CTD. They are expensive, but they are light years better than the **** they sling on a tool truck or at sears.

I don't buy a 4 flute hand tap if I can help it. They don't break chips easily, and aren't as conducive to power tapping on the mill. You can hand tap with a spiral point tap just as well.

 

[anndel]

I think one of the vendor here were selling a mechanics set last year with all the common odd ball size made for auto mechanics. I just remember Japanese alloy..... maybe you can search it here. I personally just have the HF set for SAE and the similiar HSS set from Ebay for metric both works well.... and off cause that thread restorer sets from Craftsman. It comes in Handy sometimes, but as in any tools goes, nothing is gorilla proof.

This thread...

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336475

It's Astro Pneumatic. I was looking into those but went with HSS Norseman instead. I also have a Gearwrench 75 pc set.

 

[6PTsocket]

I think one of the vendor here were selling a mechanics set last year with all the common odd ball size made for auto mechanics. I just remember Japanese alloy..... maybe you can search it here. I personally just have the HF set for SAE and the similiar HSS set from Ebay for metric both works well.... and off cause that thread restorer sets from Craftsman. It comes in Handy sometimes, but as in any tools goes, nothing is gorilla proof.

This thread...

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336475

Yeah, Astro Pneumatic. There was a lot of discussion about what sizes were most useful for auto work. As I recall it was Japanese tool steel fabricated in Taiwan. The set is available now. It should be a good choice.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[apollo11]

My advice is to not buy a kit. Buy good quality singles from the industrial supply.

Hex dies are not adjustable, good die buttons are. They are round, and have a couple indentations where the die stock engages them.

Hex dies are great for chasing a thread already cut, but a die button allows you to take a different depth of cut, and as a result you get better threads because you can adjust the chip load.

Taps come in several geometries, as well as grades of steel. It all depends on what you're threading. I personally have zero use for the carbon steel kits, or kits in general.

I buy mostly spiral point and spiral flute HSS taps from Union Butterfield, OSG or CTD. They are expensive, but they are light years better than the **** they sling on a tool truck or at sears.

I don't buy a 4 flute hand tap if I can help it. They don't break chips easily, and aren't as conducive to power tapping on the mill. You can hand tap with a spiral point tap just as well.

I don't follow this at all.
I don't see what the outside of a die has to do with any of what you said.
I'd like to know more about this.

 

[bob_mp]

My advice is to not buy a kit. Buy good quality singles from the industrial supply.

Taps come in several geometries, as well as grades of steel. It all depends on what you're threading. I personally have zero use for the carbon steel kits, or kits in general.

I buy mostly spiral point and spiral flute HSS taps from Union Butterfield, OSG or CTD. They are expensive, but they are light years better than the **** they sling on a tool truck or at sears.

^this.

I do not try to save money on taps. The OSG spiral point taps are my favorite for machine screws, Guhring Powertaps for the larger stuff. Union Butterfield and Brubaker are excellent as well.

I view cheap taps as having negative value. A broken tap is, best case, a big hassle. The cost of a good tap is very cheap insurance.

The Craftsman set I had was junk.

I much prefer to use a used, high quality tap from the flea market than a brand new carbon steel tap from a cheap set.

 

[Fretters]

I don't follow this at all.
I don't see what the outside of a die has to do with any of what you said.
I'd like to know more about this.

He's referring to split dies over hex dies. With split dies, you can widen the gap ever so slightly with one of the screws, or close it slightly via the other two screws, so you can create a fractionally oversize or undersize thread. Hex dies are a solid unit, so allow no adjustment.

 

[bob15]

I don't follow this at all.
I don't see what the outside of a die has to do with any of what you said.
I'd like to know more about this.

Maybe this will help (also a good explanation why to get a 3 tap set instead on only one tap): https://www.kmstools.com/blog/hand-taps-proper-tapping-techniques/

Adjustable round dies can be adjusted to a spec'd thread, whereas a hex die makes threads to wherever that manufacturer made the die to. From wikipedia: Solid dies cut a nominal thread form and depth, whose accuracy is subject to the precision with which the die was made, as well as the effects of wear. Adjustable dies can be slightly compressed or expanded to provide some compensation for wear, or to achieve different classes of thread fit (class A, B and more rarely, C).

 

[akalian]

It's been mentioned earlier, but it cannot be stressed enough that the standard 4 flute taps are not the best option, regardless of who makes them.

You will need someplace to store the taps, and even though a regular tap and die set is not the best quality option, it is a pretty good storage option. Then replace the common most used taps and dies with good quality ones.

For normal DIY tapping chores a spiral flute or "gun tap" is the best all around choice, provided it is a through hole. The design of a spiral flute tap pushes the chips out in front of the tap, self clearing the chips.

It has a pointed tip for easy starting as well.
http://www.norsemandrill.com/Metric-Spiral-Point-Taps.php
https://www.icscuttingtools.com/spiral-point-taps.htm

There is another option as well, but the terminology can get a bit confusing. While a sipral or gun tap pushes the chips out in front of the tap, there is another configuration that shares the same name but does just the opposite. This tap pulls the chips out from the top of the hole. Sometimes it's referred to as a "High Spiral" tap, but many times it is also referred to as just a spiral tap.

A picture tells it best:
https://www.regalcuttingtools.com/products/taps/spiral-flute-taps
http://www.ymwtapsusa.com/download/newsletters/Understanding-the-basics-of-spiral-fluted-taps.pdf

These can also be used instead of a traditional bottoming tap but they don't produce threads as close to the bottom of the hole as a traditional bottoming tap will, but are very usefull in getting 95% of the threads cut, and then if necessary a bottoming tap can be used to get the final threads cut.

One word of caution using these taps. They need to be started perpendicular to the work, and are somewhat delicate. Best used in a drill press. But can be done by hand using one of these: https://cdn.mscdirect.com/global/images/ProductImages/0659303-23.jpg

And most importantly is that the proper drill is used for the pilot hole. Close doesn't get it when tapping threads. Starrett will send you a handy pocket guide for free. Get one, and use it. http://www.starrett.com

You will need to create an account, and then go to Catalog/Educational and you can either download the literature or they will send you the laminated cards or wall poster free of charge. Starett is very generous in that you can order 5 of many of the items. Nice for stocking stuffers.

Here's what they look like if you want a copy now, and don't want to wait for them to mail it to you. The actual size is 3" x 5"

Decimal Card:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SUga3nO4WoguRj0LyVUtjY0M9Ix5DeOH

Metric Card:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=10ixac96Y7yeljspthBugrrTDOaDHLI9d

They also have wall chart for the decimal card, but not the metric one ??

.

 

[apollo11]

Thanks. I've never even noticed the spilt in the dies before.
All the round dies I had seen were the cheapie sets w/o a split.

He's referring to split dies over hex dies. With split dies, you can widen the gap ever so slightly with one of the screws, or close it slightly via the other two screws, so you can create a fractionally oversize or undersize thread. Hex dies are a solid unit, so allow no adjustment.

Maybe this will help (also a good explanation why to get a 3 tap set instead on only one tap): https://www.kmstools.com/blog/hand-taps-proper-tapping-techniques/

Adjustable round dies can be adjusted to a spec'd thread, whereas a hex die makes threads to wherever that manufacturer made the die to. From wikipedia: Solid dies cut a nominal thread form and depth, whose accuracy is subject to the precision with which the die was made, as well as the effects of wear. Adjustable dies can be slightly compressed or expanded to provide some compensation for wear, or to achieve different classes of thread fit (class A, B and more rarely, C).

 

[cherrybomb]

All good technical info here,but another case where the members really got some good info explained to us.Lots of sites to read and study.IMO I would not go cheap,I would buy quality and take my time.Some tools you don't use often,but when you need them,you'll be glad that they don't let you down.

 

[racinfarmer]

I spend the money on a Irwin-Hanson SAE set from Fleet Farm. $70 and I add as I go.

If I need something quick without running out to get it or to clean up threads, the cheapie HF sets comes out.

 

[ez-duzit]

Why has the shape of the die not been mentioned? I have a Craftsman SAE set and a matching metric set, they both have hex shaped dies. The hex shape is nice because it can be used with a die handle or a wrench or even a socket. The round dies rely on a set screw to hold them in the die wrench and they are useless without that particular wrench.
That is the main reason I have the Craftsman sets, I also have random brands of taps and dies that are not sets for the uncommon sizes.

Hex dies are for chasing existing threads, not creating new ones.

 

[apollo11]

Hex dies are for chasing existing threads, not creating new ones.

HUH?
so I've been using them wrong for 40 years?

 

[ez-duzit]

HUH?
so I've been using them wrong for 40 years?

Yes. If it's any consolation, you've had plenty of company.

 

[apollo11]

Yes. If it's any consolation, you've had plenty of company.

Oh well.
I'm not gonna buy new sets now.

 

[KnurledNut]

Greenfield done.

Pretty well sums up this discussion.

 

[Katodog]

Hex dies are for chasing existing threads, not creating new ones.

Must be a secret because I've been creating threads for over 30 years with hex dies and nobody ever told me I couldn't do it...