16” beam?

[Jack_Toepfer]

Hi Guys,

In the middle of an addition of 18x40 garage and 18x32 room above it. Silly question, why do I have a 16” beam holding up the “front” of the 2nd floor? Seemed excessive to me, but is it normal? 18’ span.

How much can I pick up with a crane using this beam? 1ton seem reasonable?

I have not measured the back one, but I’d guess it’s 12”.

 

[850xpeps]

Hi Guys,



In the middle of an addition of 18x40 garage and 18x32 room above it. Silly question, why do I have a 16” beam holding up the “front” of the 2nd floor? Seemed excessive to me, but is it normal? 18’ span.



How much can I pick up with a crane using this beam? 1ton seem reasonable?



I have not measured the back one, but I’d guess it’s 12”.

Was it designed to have a crane on it? Or was it designed to support your second story?

 

[mikegt4]

It's hard to say without seeing the plans but it appears that the front beam supports 1/2 of the 2nd story floor and it's live load as well as the "front" 2nd story wall and most likely the front half of the roof with it's live snow load (location is NY). That is a lot of load on a beam with a 18' span hence the hefty steel beam.

 

[ddawg16]

Is that beam under the front wall of the 2nd story? If so, it's very important. It's a load bearing beam.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

Thanks guys, I understand why it is so much larger than the other, having the wall sit directly on top of it and all.

So, can I pull a motor with a crane attached to that beam? If it was temporary, would supporting it with "jack posts" help at all, to reduce the span between supports?

 

[1953mercury]

I think pulling a motor, or anything up to 1000# or so, should be no problem. If your concerned, rig up an indicator to see if you get any major defection. I'm betting you won't see any with something that light. Mike

 

[850xpeps]

If you never asked to have the beam capable of support a 1000# weight then it’s not engineered too. Weather it moves or not isn’t the point. Yes adding temp posts would be a good idea if you were to lift something. But that beam is halfway out of the building anyway so I would think it would **** to lift off.

 

[shedfullatools]

Should be more than adequate up to 1000 pounds I would think, I've seen wimpy limbs on old trees used to pull at least that much

 

[GMCGarage]

Can you ask the contractor to ask the engineer that designed it?

The beam will not fail, nor will any other part of the house with an 1000lb load on it.

But, you might produced excessive deflection in the beam and cause dry wall cracks above.

ask the person that designed it.

 

[wssix99]

If the roof on that section of the house is like the other, then that beam holds a massive amount of weight. 1/2 of the load of the entire roof above that section of the house is supported by the wall above that beam and then by the beam itself. (Snow loads, winds loads transferred through the structure and into the wall, etc.)

This is an expensive piece of steel. Engineers would not typically over-design this member. 99.9% you cannot add load to this.

 

[Ironcrow]

If the roof on that section of the house is like the other, then that beam holds a massive amount of weight. 1/2 of the load of the entire roof above that section of the house is supported by the wall above that beam and then by the beam itself. (Snow loads, winds loads transferred through the structure and into the wall, etc.)

This is an expensive piece of steel. Engineers would not typically over-design this member. 99.9% you cannot add load to this.

I was good until you got to the last sentence. This beam is designed to support a 10 ton building, 6 tons of live load, 3 tons on snow on the roof, and whatever wind load. As long as the 1/2 ton hoist load doesn't happen during a windy blizzard, with 2 feet of snow on the roof, and a Super Bowl party upstairs, there will be enough headroom in beam strength to do the job.

 

[sierradmax]

I'm surprised 2by's are used as columns to support the beam.

 

[GMCGarage]

I was good until you got to the last sentence. This beam is designed to support a 10 ton building, 6 tons of live load, 3 tons on snow on the roof, and whatever wind load. As long as the 1/2 ton hoist load doesn't happen during a windy blizzard, with 2 feet of snow on the roof, and a Super Bowl party upstairs, there will be enough headroom in beam strength to do the job.

I agree. The beam does not know if the load is people, snow, or an engine. Looking at the smallest W16 beam available, the design is controlled by load, not deflection, so that can be taken out of the equation.

On the load side, its good for 18,000lbs DL and 30,000lbs live load. Thats alot of snow, people, and structure.

Now, one issue you have is the bottom of the beam is not braced. you start putting load outside of straight down could cause the beam to start to roll over. Again, highly unlikely to happen, but make sure you are only pulling straight up and down.

Also dont do it during a super bowl party in a blizzard.

 

[bczygan]

Here's how beams are designed.

They are designed not just to support the live and dead loads that are and may be imposed on them, but also with a safety factor so they will never reach the point of failure.

In addition, they are designed so the deflection is kept withing a set limit. This is done so things like drywall won't crack at the joints, or nails pop.

If you cut the span by using jack posts, you increase the capacity.

So I would temporarily install one or two, as close together as practical and just use it.

Put a plate under each jack post to spread the load on the slab.

Someone could do the calculations, but I think it will be just fine.



Bill (Designer)

 

[GMCGarage]

I'm surprised 2by's are used as columns to support the beam.

I looked at that, (8)-2x4's at #3 grade is good for about 18,000lbs. Not too shabby! hopefully they widened the footing there!

 

[sierradmax]

I looked at that, (8)-2x4's at #3 grade is good for about 18,000lbs. Not too shabby! hopefully they widened the footing there!

I'm sure it's fine, but there really isn't a moment resisting connection

 

[GMCGarage]

I'm sure it's fine, but there really isn't a moment resisting connection

I wouldn't expect that, but there still is a concentrated point load on the footing that needs to be accounted for.

 

[Raisedonadeere]

Thanks guys, I understand why it is so much larger than the other, having the wall sit directly on top of it and all.

So, can I pull a motor with a crane attached to that beam? If it was temporary, would supporting it with "jack posts" help at all, to reduce the span between supports?

I pulled several motors in my standard construction garage which only had 2x joists to hold up the ceiling drywall. I stood a 2x from floor to ceiling on each side of vehicle directly under a joist and ran a chain over the joist to attach the chain hoist to.

The only sign of this after the job was done is two 1” holes in the ceiling for running the chain over the joist. Kept the props off to the side and handy to use any time I wanted to lift something. Left the chain loop in the ceiling for 25 years as I raised 4 kids and repaired their cars. Only slightly inconvenient as compared to a built in hanging point.

 

[kbs2244]

Just pull your engine/trans in the summer when there is no snow load and the kids are in the pool, not their bedrooms.

 

[wssix99]

I was good until you got to the last sentence. This beam is designed to support a 10 ton building, 6 tons of live load, 3 tons on snow on the roof, and whatever wind load. As long as the 1/2 ton hoist load doesn't happen during a windy blizzard, with 2 feet of snow on the roof, and a Super Bowl party upstairs, there will be enough headroom in beam strength to do the job.

Fair point. Designers assume, as I was, that all that stuff is there all the time. If one is going to use it for its point-in-time loading, I would still do some math to see what it can really take. (The full-time dead loads may not be trivial.)

 

[ddawg16]

My garage is 20x25.....2-story.

I have a beam down the middle of my garage to support the second floor.....7"x16" PSL....20' long. I would NOT try to lift an engine with it. Do I think it could? Yes.

As for support....I have 4x6 wood beams....and the concrete pad underneath is 3'x3'...3' deep.

***** is not going anywhere.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

Thanks for the insights guys.
A few years ago I had 8’ of snow and was shoveling my roof and several others. Usually when we have that much snow, I’m not in the garage messing around with gantry cranes. Haha.

In the event I need it, I will certainly exercise caution.

** and for those who wanted to know. The footer is consistent throughout the entire thing, nothing special under the beam. Good to know the 2x4s are adequate.

 

[Ironcrow]

I looked it up. 55 pdf snow load. I live in rocks and cactus, so I don't think of snow very much. Let's see here; 55 pdf snow load, 600 square feet of roof is 33,000 pounds. I get that a point load is different than a distributed snow load, but come on, a 500 lb engine is still 1.5% of the total - 16.5 tons of snow on the roof! And that's JUST the snow. It wouldn't surprise me if the second floor of the building was 10 tons. And wind load at 100 mph is probably the same kind of numbers as the snow. AND designers also account for the weirdness of asymmetrical snow loads, 50 pdf on the snow side and 30 pdf on the lee side of a peaked roof...so... a 500 lb engine is under 1% of the total design load.

 

[Homerr]

This beam will be wrapped with sheetrock because of the occupied space above.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

Homerr, the space above is going to be storage until I come up with a good use for it.
Now, if I want to use it with a crane, what other options do I have if not wrapping it in sheetrock? I understand I need something for code, but what other options are out there?