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Above 1200 Sq/FT Restored 1930's Auto Shop

Wokspaces above 1200 squarefeet.

C_F

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Utah...SNOW BLOWS!
But around page 409 all the pictures disappeared, and without being able to see Thomas' beautiful work, I ended up checking nearly all of the last 150 pages to see if the pictures would return, but alas it was not to be.
You may want to give your computer a good "adjustment". I went back to page 409, 411, 430, etc., all the photos are up & working on my end.:thumbup:

Like you, I came to this thread a few years after it began & found myself wishing I had been following along from the start. Oh well, better late than never. :)
 
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XJSuperman

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Well, something happened on my computer this morning I guess, I went back to finish some more reading this afternoon and all the pictures are back!!! So I am resuming at page 410. Please, no spoilers!

You may want to give your computer a good "adjustment". I went back to page 409, 411, 430, etc., all the photos are up & working on my end.:thumbup:
You are/were correct sir.
 

XJSuperman

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Okay! I made it through all 561 pages in 3 weeks! (in my free time at work) And I did go back and reread what I skipped after my glitch. I have to admit though, I didn't read every post......I skipped ahead often to Thomas or Chris' next addition or update. Amazing, simply amazing. The house looks fantastic and the driveway smooth. Very well done as others have stated before me.

-Outspoken captive Iowan.
 
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CVOBill

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Feb 13, 2018
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Vermilion, OH
Chris and Thomas, OMG I made it to the ATP of the COTU and I have a lot of things I want to say but WOW is the first thing. I really meant WOW...its not short for anything. :lol: The two of you are an amazing couple and I cant wait to meet you both at some point. I already know we will because the vortex is strong and who could blame anyone for just wanting to meet you and shake your hand. I will even buy lunch at the Philo Tavern. I found this thread because of Rick with the Factory Five Cobra and the FFR forum. I've built two of the FFR cars, a Cobra in 2003 and I'm finishing the body work and painting the '33 Hot Rod now. My plan is to drive that car from Northern Ohio to California next year, part of the trip is RT. 66 and I would love to stop at Mr. Johnson's shop and see the property that I seem to know so well in pictures. I won't even bring up the crooked switch plate. (wait I think I just did)

CVOBill
 
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BB767

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Philo, IL
Welocme, Welcome........

Okay! I made it through all 561 pages in 3 weeks...................

-Outspoken captive Iowan.

Chris and Thomas, OMG I made it to the ATP of the COTU ..................

I won't even bring up the crooked switch plate. (wait I think I just did)

CVOBill

To both XJSuperman and CVOBill, a warm welcome to our merry band here!

Chris and I have been gone for a while but we're now back so sorry for the delay.

Congratulations are in order to you both for wading through all the material this thread represents. Reading/looking at it has now evolved into quite an undertaking but I'm glad to hear you're not disappointed with the time spent.

The welcome mat is always out for any of our great Garage Journal friends who would like to stop by for a visit. Even if you just want to see that switch plate for your very selves!!!!!! :eek: And as rlwhitetr3b said, going to the Philo Tavern alone is good enough reason to stop by.

We were out west visiting our good friend, Bonneveille Salt Flats racer Lou Bingham...



...where I got to take him for a ride in a new C7 Corvette that was kindly loaned to me. We were both suitably impressed with the car. Then I got taken for a ride...



...while visiting Beltsville Shell author Cary Thomas. This is the Kart he uses for racing.



It's a 1960 Fox Kart, just like his other red one. Powered by twin West Bend 580 engines.





It is quite lively and brought back some good memories...



...of my first Go Kart (almost identical to this one) made by Mr Johnson in the old shop in 1965.

Again, welcome gentleman and thank you for taking the time to post in.

The saga continues.......

Thomas
 

9C1

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Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
153
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Illinois, USA
Re: Welocme, Welcome........

To both XJSuperman and CVOBill, a warm welcome to our merry band here!

Chris and I have been gone for a while but we're now back so sorry for the delay.

Congratulations are in order to you both for wading through all the material this thread represents. Reading/looking at it has now evolved into quite an undertaking but I'm glad to hear you're not disappointed with the time spent.

The welcome mat is always out for any of our great Garage Journal friends who would like to stop by for a visit. Even if you just want to see that switch plate for your very selves!!!!!! :eek: And as rlwhitetr3b said, going to the Philo Tavern alone is good enough reason to stop by.

We were out west visiting our good friend, Bonneveille Salt Flats racer Lou Bingham...



...where I got to take him for a ride in a new C7 Corvette that was kindly loaned to me. We were both suitably impressed with the car. Then I

The saga continues.......

Thomas

Nice ride Thomas :3gears:
 
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BB767

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Twin engines? How does that work?!

If you take a look at the engines Hugo, one is running clockwise and the other is running in the opposite direction or anti-clockwise. For 2 cycle engines, running one backwards if you will, is done easy enough. They are ported engines with reed valves so the only major modification is the ignition timing has to be changed and the recoil starter needs to be reversed to start them going the opposite direction.

On some karts, both engines would run the same direction. To accomplish that, the engine mounts and drive sprocket on the kart needed to be changed. Early karts didn't have a live axles so each engine would drive each wheel independently. That proved to not be the best way to operate the kart with twin engines.

Cary's Kart has a lovey symmetry to it, a mirror image if you will. It takes more effort to use a setup like this but it is definitely a neater way to go and is better balanced. The clutches are centrifugal so if the engines speeds don't match exactly, the clutch would just slip a little.


BTW, you'll notice the host site for my pictures is having a snit. They have an engineer working on it, but as of now, some of the links to some of the pictures are broken so those images aren't showing. I'm holding up posting material until they get that all worked out. Thanks everyone.

Thomas
 

Nuts

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376
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Baker City, Or
So I've missed a year, have about 30 pages to catch up, glad to see the Center of the World didn't stop.

Back shortly


Nuts
 

Nuts

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Ok, I'm all caught up. It's nice to know everything has been well at the Center of the Universe.

Chris, Thomas, I too would like to add my thanks, for the effort in creating what must be one of the top ten threads on the internet. I have sent a few people this way, but sadly they think it's just about an old car lift, and don't realize that this thread is about life, and doing things the right way.


Nuts Aka Doug


PS, I just checked, my first post on this thread was on 2-18-2010, it's been a very informative 8 years.
 
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Bumpy55

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Indiana
Nuts got me wondering when I first appeared on here. Went back and its been 6 years almost to the day since my very first post on here. Check in most days and just follow along in the back round. I truely enjoy watching Thomas go about doing thing the way he does. As a Machinist I like the right way to do things and Thomas always spends just a little longer to do just that. Thanks for the entertainment I'll stay tuned in the dark corner.
 
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BB767

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I once had a Go kart and it had one engine and had to be push started. It had the mounts for a second engine but I never fitted it as it would have been to hard to push start.

Oh yeah, direct drive. On my later racing Swoopster kart...



...I experimented with direct drive once. It had a McCulloch MC-90 engine and I thought since a direct drive sprocket was cheaper than a clutch and with no slipping clutch it might be a better way to go. In the mind of a 12 year old, what could go wrong? :dunno: It would go like stink but what a royal Payne in the A$$ to start it by myself. I'd run alongside it pushing and then jump on flipping the ignition switch on to start it. I was always afraid it'd start and then get away from me before I got completely on it and take off driver-less into the distance.

That experiment didn't last very long. After a few times doing it that way common sense prevailed and I got a Max Torque clutch.



My Swoopster also came with a second engine mount like yours HOTFR8 (seen above, right side under the muffler) but I couldn't afford 2 engines so I always ran a single. With a West Bend 820 engine, seen above in the 2 pictures, it was plenty quick.

Thomas
 

Hugo L.

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Nov 1, 2012
Messages
271
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Québec City
If you take a look at the engines Hugo, one is running clockwise and the other is running in the opposite direction or anti-clockwise. For 2 cycle engines, running one backwards if you will, is done easy enough. They are ported engines with reed valves so the only major modification is the ignition timing has to be changed and the recoil starter needs to be reversed to start them going the opposite direction.

On some karts, both engines would run the same direction. To accomplish that, the engine mounts and drive sprocket on the kart needed to be changed. Early karts didn't have a live axles so each engine would drive each wheel independently. That proved to not be the best way to operate the kart with twin engines.

Cary's Kart has a lovey symmetry to it, a mirror image if you will. It takes more effort to use a setup like this but it is definitely a neater way to go and is better balanced. The clutches are centrifugal so if the engines speeds don't match exactly, the clutch would just slip a little.


BTW, you'll notice the host site for my pictures is having a snit. They have an engineer working on it, but as of now, some of the links to some of the pictures are broken so those images aren't showing. I'm holding up posting material until they get that all worked out. Thanks everyone.

Thomas

Interesting!

But how does one make sure they turn at the very same rpm and make the same power?
 

Spareparts

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Mar 12, 2010
Messages
2,042
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Lansing Ks.
Listen and guess, that is the best we could do back then. We ran the Power Products engines back then, pull the jug machine off about .035 and install. Ran direct drive with a start cart with a Cat battery and 2 Ford starters with V belts. Lift the rear wheels off the ground and lean back to tighten the belts and let her rip. That rascal was fast with the 2 engines. One kart had the live axle and the other was open with throttles for each enging on the steering wheel (the old Bat Wing type) that you controlled with each thumb. Confusing at first but with some practice it made fast lap times, you could run tight turns with the outside tire hard on the throttle and a little less on the inside tire without much tire spin just traction. The next year a rule change to one throttle for all engines. My Dad was always coming up with some crazy stuff when it came to racing karts and most of the time it caused a rule change. Thomas it would be fun to have the tires they run today on our old karts
 

rannoch

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Messages
42
Location
PNW
If you take a look at the engines Hugo, one is running clockwise and the other is running in the opposite direction or anti-clockwise. For 2 cycle engines, running one backwards if you will, is done easy enough. They are ported engines with reed valves so the only major modification is the ignition timing has to be changed and the recoil starter needs to be reversed to start them going the opposite direction.

On some karts, both engines would run the same direction. To accomplish that, the engine mounts and drive sprocket on the kart needed to be changed. Early karts didn't have a live axles so each engine would drive each wheel independently. That proved to not be the best way to operate the kart with twin engines.

Cary's Kart has a lovey symmetry to it, a mirror image if you will. It takes more effort to use a setup like this but it is definitely a neater way to go and is better balanced. The clutches are centrifugal so if the engines speeds don't match exactly, the clutch would just slip a little.


BTW, you'll notice the host site for my pictures is having a snit. They have an engineer working on it, but as of now, some of the links to some of the pictures are broken so those images aren't showing. I'm holding up posting material until they get that all worked out. Thanks everyone.

Thomas

Interesting!

But how does one make sure they turn at the very same rpm and make the same power?

Looks like they're both tied to the live axle so with the slipping clutches mentioned in Thomas's post they should self regulate.

I imagine one engine could even stall and the other engine would just keep going since the stalled clutch would no longer be engaged.
 
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BB767

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...........

Thomas it would be fun to have the tires they run today on our old karts

That's fun to think about isn't it Spareparts! I was driving a modern kart at one of Jim Halls' Kart Racing Schools a few years back. The amount of "G's" you can pull cornering is impressive indeed! We had nothing like that in the mid '60's and that's probably a good thing. :) Honestly, growing up in the 60's and racing go karts were some of the best times of my life.

Sounds like your Dad was an "out of the box" thinker much like Jim Hall senior and his Chaparrals:
https://www.google.com/search?q=jim...PnFkKHep2B7sQsAQIKA&biw=1385&bih=721&dpr=1.33

My kind of guy.

Looks like they're both tied to the live axle so with the slipping clutches mentioned in Thomas's post they should self regulate.

I imagine one engine could even stall and the other engine would just keep going since the stalled clutch would no longer be engaged.

Correct rannoch, the clutches will slip to reach equilibrium. It's not all that critical for both engines to be exactly the same power or RPM. The closer you can make them both the same however, the faster and better you'll run. If an engine is down on power or dies completely, the other will still power the kart, just slower.

Thomas
 

stonesg

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Jun 13, 2016
Messages
249
Location
SE Georgia
Mercury Park Lane in the back of that cart picture?

That's one of my "Shoulda' never let it get away" stories.

It was in perfect shape.... 410 Maurader just needing rebuilding.

Got sent to Korea so I had to let Pop get it out of his yard while I was gone.

TG
 
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BB767

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Material Lift Track Build Info

........

I have sent a few people this way, but sadly they think it's just about an old car lift, and don't realize that this thread is about life, and doing things the right way.

Nuts Aka Doug

PS, I just checked, my first post on this thread was on 2-18-2010, it's been a very informative 8 years.

Nuts got me wondering when I first appeared on here. Went back and its been 6 years almost to the day since my very first post on here. Check in most days and just follow along in the back round. I truely enjoy watching Thomas go about doing thing the way he does. As a Machinist I like the right way to do things and Thomas always spends just a little longer to do just that. Thanks for the entertainment I'll stay tuned in the dark corner.

Guys a heartfelt thanks to you and all the others who have made this thread possible. Without the encouragement and engagement from you all I suspect this thread would have just faded away. Those who still visit here from time to time clearly "get it". Yes, this thread is much more than how to restore an old lift.

As I said many times, I don't have all the answers, I haven't been to the burning bush. Instead, what I present here is what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Some things I'm especially passionate about (Chris comes right to mind for one!!) and you've allowed me that indulgence. Choose for yourself to the live the life that works for you, just as I have.

OK, now on to another subject near and dear to me, the material lift that I designed to move big, bulky, heavy equipment and material...



... from the garage down into the basement shop.



Since the platform is suspended by a chain, that platform can move around in the shaft. Going down isn't much problem...





...but raising the lift up to the garage level, I needed to be very careful that the edge of the platform didn't move and get under the bottom of the walls above it, seen by the arrows. The lift platform tracks very straight moving up and down, but if the load is off center a little, the platform will drift out of center of the lift shaft. I have been very careful because of this when lifting up to keep the platform out from under the walls. The lift is powerful enough that if the platform got under the wall, it would easily lift the wall up with no problem, resulting in unnecessary damage to the house.

I wanted a way to restrict movement of the platform within the shaft area. A way to more "Goof Proof" the lift operation.

After a great deal of thought, this is the solution I came up with.



To construct the tracks I used 10' (3m) long, 2" (5cm) wide, 90º angle steel, 1/4" (.63cm) thick. To that I welded an additional 2" wide, 1/4" flat bar to form...



...the square "Z" profile seen with 2 opposing 90º angles. This is looking straight down on the fabricated track. 2 of these tracks were fabricated and were then attached to the concrete wall.



2" diameter, ball bearing idle rollers were purchased from Graingers. Those rollers provide a baring surface in 2 axis, on the head and side of the roller, that the rollers ride in and limits the platform movement. A skid plate limits platform movement in a 3rd direction toward the concrete wall.



By using 2 opposing tracks, the lift platform is now restricted in it's movement such that it can't get under the walls.



This is a different view of the idle roller in a track. An attachment piece for the roller was made to bolt the roller to the platform on the right but unfortunately I don't have a good picture of it. You can also see how the skid plate keeps the platform off the concrete wall.



There's only 1 area where the skid plate actually contacts the wall. This contact area is where the garage floor was poured on top of the basement wall...



...and that area is a little proud to the surface plane of the basement wall. It's incidental, marginal contact and doesn't present a problem. I used some paraffin on the concrete wall surface in that area to act as a lubricant. With use, the 2 surfaces will wear into each other. Other than that, the platform raises and lowers without any wall contact.

I have used the lift to move most of my equipment into the basement without use of these tracks. I was acutely aware of the danger the lift posed when being raised and never had an issue. That said, I wanted a system that provided for a less conscientious operator than myself. I wanted to help protect that guy 50 or 100 years from now operating it and help keep him out of trouble from damaging the house needlessly. Is it perfect now? No, of course not. Humans are not perfect, never have been, never will be. The lift works and it works well but care in its operation must still be used.



I will be posting this sign by the lift. I hope that future owners of the house will take this to heart.

All that's left now is to remove the lift and tracks in preparation for.............Powder Coating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce: Stand by for that.

Thanks again everyone.

Thomas
 
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Bob Heine

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Oct 24, 2009
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Mercury Park Lane in the back of that cart picture?

That's one of my "Shoulda' never let it get away" stories.

It was in perfect shape.... 410 Maurader just needing rebuilding.

Got sent to Korea so I had to let Pop get it out of his yard while I was gone.

TG
Stonesg, I think that's a 1965-7 Dodge Charger but it has a similar shape to the Mercury Park Lane and even the AMC Marlin.
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1966 Dodge Charger:
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stonesg

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SE Georgia
Stonesg, I think that's a 1965-7 Dodge Charger but it has a similar shape to the Mercury Park Lane and even the AMC Marlin.
attachment.php

1966 Dodge Charger:
attachment.php

Yup.... I started doubting myself almost as soon as I hit the go button but was curious what it was anyway.
 

BUGTHUG

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Kansas
this is a 66 I bought a couple years ago and sold it. Had the 383 4bbl, auto, with the hidden headlights. Ran well had only 75k miles on OG car. It was about95% all OG.
 

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Alberta Canada
Hello everyone;

While watching the original Johnson's Welding and Repair property transform into the Payne's Timber Haven and Retirement Refuge over the last 561 pages, I could feel a personal transformation take place. I have gone from a curious Garage Journal Gearhead drawn in by a link to the picture of the Terraplane Tree-borg, to a full fledged COTU "off center" associate, and as of this post, participant. Well done.

It only seems natural to request becoming a member of the "Brotherhood of the Traveling Book". I see another trip to Canada is on BS 1.0's itinerary. Would it be possible to get added to the list? I'm near Calgary Alberta.
 
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BB767

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Hello everyone;

While watching the original Johnson's Welding and Repair property transform into the Payne's Timber Haven and Retirement Refuge over the last 561 pages, I could feel a personal transformation take place. I have gone from a curious Garage Journal Gearhead drawn in by a link to the picture of the Terraplane Tree-borg, to a full fledged COTU "off center" associate, and as of this post, participant. Well done.

It only seems natural to request becoming a member of the "Brotherhood of the Traveling Book". I see another trip to Canada is on BS 1.0's itinerary. Would it be possible to get added to the list? I'm near Calgary Alberta.

Hello Pensive Scribe and welcome. I see that you've been ensnared in the vortex along with the rest of the gang. It would be interesting to know how various folks found there way here. Everyone who sees the Terraplane in person still can't believe that happened. I'll be working on that area of the property this year so some current material about it will get posted.

Sure you can be added to the BOTTB reading list....

1SG- Near Ft. Lewis, WA........Presently is reading it.
1949 caddyman- Arizona
rixtrix1- Phoenix Az
jbmatth- Northern Ok.
eseibel67- Kitchener, ON Canada
Pensive Scribe- Alberta, Canada

...just like that, easy peasy. If you would, send a Private Message (PM) to eseibel67 to ensure he's still planning on reading it and then send him your mailing address and phone number.



I'm in the midst of several projects right now so check back, I've got more headed on here. Thanks again for your interest and kind thoughts.

Thomas
 

KatanaKid

Active member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
29
If you take a look at the engines Hugo, one is running clockwise and the other is running in the opposite direction or anti-clockwise. For 2 cycle engines, running one backwards if you will, is done easy enough. They are ported engines with reed valves so the only major modification is the ignition timing has to be changed and the recoil starter needs to be reversed to start them going the opposite direction.

On some karts, both engines would run the same direction. To accomplish that, the engine mounts and drive sprocket on the kart needed to be changed. Early karts didn't have a live axles so each engine would drive each wheel independently. That proved to not be the best way to operate the kart with twin engines.

Cary's Kart has a lovey symmetry to it, a mirror image if you will. It takes more effort to use a setup like this but it is definitely a neater way to go and is better balanced. The clutches are centrifugal so if the engines speeds don't match exactly, the clutch would just slip a little.


BTW, you'll notice the host site for my pictures is having a snit. They have an engineer working on it, but as of now, some of the links to some of the pictures are broken so those images aren't showing. I'm holding up posting material until they get that all worked out. Thanks everyone.

Thomas

Back in the era my cousin had one with 2 west bend engines which I believe were 10 or 10,1/2 Hp each And if memory serves me right He added twin carbs to it .
It out ran a 64 Chevy 409
 
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BB767

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Messages
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Philo, IL
Back in the era my cousin had one with 2 west bend engines which I believe were 10 or 10,1/2 Hp each And if memory serves me right He added twin carbs to it .
It out ran a 64 Chevy 409

I fully believe it could out run a 409 Impala. People who have never driven a racing kart don't realize how quick they are. I bet your cousin's with 2 carb's per engine would have been a blast to drive. :3gears:

Thomas
 

Nuts

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Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
376
Location
Baker City, Or
Having grown up in and around a wrecking yard, my older brothers became the proud recipients of a kart with a very large McCullough saw engine that came in. Temporarily.

I say temporarily because they let little brother, me, take if for a spin out the driveway.

I must have been in total awe of the speed because I forgot to steer or let up on the gas.

Luckily that fence post stopped me from going thru the fence.

I was about 6 if I recall.


Nuts aka Doug
 

eseibel67

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Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
9
Location
Kitchener, ON
Sure you can be added to the BOTTB reading list....

1SG- Near Ft. Lewis, WA........Presently is reading it.
1949 caddyman- Arizona
rixtrix1- Phoenix Az
jbmatth- Northern Ok.
eseibel67- Kitchener, ON Canada
Pensive Scribe- Alberta, Canada

...just like that, easy peasy. If you would, send a Private Message (PM) to eseibel67 to ensure he's still planning on reading it and then send him your mailing address and phone number.

I'm in the midst of several projects right now so check back, I've got more headed on here. Thanks again for your interest and kind thoughts.

Thomas

I tried to contact Pensive Scribe a couple of times via PM but messages do not show in the "sent messages". I suspect his post count might be too so I am posting here regarding Beltsville Shell schedule.

I have been in contact with jbmatth, he will be sending BS to me when he is done. I will forward to Pensive Scribe when I get confirmation that he wants it.

If there are any fellow Canadians that would like to get in the rotation, this would be a good time. :canada:

Erv
 

hasco

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Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
287
Very Very Nice ! A couple period gas pumps would be a nice touch. Was it ever a Filling station ?:beer:
 

devans522

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2018
Messages
8
I just found this thread recently and I'm 50 pages into it. Only 513 more to go! Just so you know I usually skip right through threads this big and try to get the high points but what you're doing is just so fantastic I've been reading every page.
My hats off to you sir on doing such fine work.
 
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