House is sold so the fun begins

[850xpeps]

Well we sold our house and are moving into a rental while we build.

House plans are in the drawing stage at the moment.

Plan is storage shed, house and large shop.


Cleaned off the top soil and will do gravel, forming and pour the slab tomorrow for the storage shed. It will be a 24x24 with a 9x7 overhead door and one man door.

House is going to be story and 3/4. 1800 ish main floor with 600 ish upstairs.

Will be dark tin.... maybe black and possibly snaplok with hidden fasteners. Dark trim and dark siding and dark windows. Most likely Hardie lap siding.

Shop..... not sure yet. Don’t want to build so big it’s going to cost way to much to heat but what big enough I’ll be happy. Maybe 35x70?

I will most likely be going geothermal. I have also found heat pumps that will do in floor heat so that may be an option for the shop.

Overhead view. The house on the right is no longer with us.

General idea of where I think house, driveway and shop will go. Shop is on the left. The little storage shed I’m building will be below the grainery on the left side.

 

[850xpeps]

Storage shed coming along.

 

[kelpaso1]

Why do people call that a "shed" It's a freakin garage

A shed is 8x10, 10x12

 

[850xpeps]

Lol definition of a shed has nothing to do with size.

 

[MikeF2316]

Lol definition of a shed has nothing to do with size.

If you can't get all the materials in one pickup truck load, it's not a shed.

Seriously, you must be pumped! Is there going to be an attached garage for daily driver parking?

 

[Stuart in MN]

If you live in the country, it's called a shed.

 

[kelpaso1]

If you live in the country, it's called a shed.

Ok, but this is the Garage Journal and everybody knows that is a garage

 

[jscoggin]

Storage shed coming along.

That is the biggest "shed" I've ever seen, I like your style.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Ok, but this is the Garage Journal and everybody knows that is a garage

More like everybody knows that is not big enough.


Seriously, it looks good.

 

[protegeV]

That's a garage baby

 

[kelpaso1]

Ok sorry to side track this thread... OP, carry on

 

[threeputt]

I could live in that shed That's a Texas Shed

 

[850xpeps]

Haha unfortunately nuttgt hit the nail on the head.

No daily driver garage. That isn’t how we roll up here. Garages usually get sh!t pilled in them for storage.

I ordered black tin for the shed. I don’t know anyone with a black tin roof so I’m Not sure how it holds to the weather. But the house and shop will most likely follow suit. The house will probably get a snap lok hidden fastener type tin though.


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[larry_g]

Ok, but this is the Garage Journal and everybody knows that is a garage

Only to the city kids. Out here a hay or machinery shed could be 10,000 square feet or larger. Still just a shed.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[850xpeps]

Only to the city kids. Out here a hay or machinery shed could be 10,000 square feet or larger. Still just a shed.



lg

no neat sig line

Need somewhere to put my old Massey parts. They are going to sh!t sitting in the sun lol

 

[850xpeps]

Got some tin on the roof and doors in. Gotta paint the doors black for the wife I guess.

Ordering the tin for the walls on Monday I guess.


Still waiting for some prints from the guy drawing them. Been 4 weeks..... getting little impatient.

 

[dave_dj1]

Looks good! What happen to the house in the picture?
That looks like a neat piece of property. What's up on the hill to the left?
ETA: where are you located?

 

[OccupantRJ]

Around here, if it is open on the side and used to store farm machinery, it is a machine shed. If it has sides and is used to store things, it is a barn. If it is used to work on anything in, it is a shop.

 

[RegeSullivan]

Great start! I'll be following your progress if you are kind enough to take the time to post.

One thought about your shop... build it big. Well, build it bigger than what you think you need. You don't have to heat the entire shop. Maybe keep a portion to garage your rolling stock. That wouldn't require heat and if you ever need the space for shop work you could heat it.

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[Farmall450]

Only to the city kids. Out here a hay or machinery shed could be 10,000 square feet or larger. Still just a shed.

lg
no neat sig line

This. If it isn't meant for cars it's not a garage.

 

[850xpeps]

Around here, if it is open on the side and used to store farm machinery, it is a machine shed. If it has sides and is used to store things, it is a barn. If it is used to work on anything in, it is a shop.

Pretty much

Great start! I'll be following your progress if you are kind enough to take the time to post.

One thought about your shop... build it big. Well, build it bigger than what you think you need. You don't have to heat the entire shop. Maybe keep a portion to garage your rolling stock. That wouldn't require heat and if you ever need the space for shop work you could heat it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Ya I’m still torn on shop size. I wanna build big but don’t know what the future holds and don’t wanna heat a large shop if I won’t need it. I’ve got a couple semi trucks that I had drivers in. While I build for a living. But think the work is kinda dried up on that. I originally started at 35x50 but thinking it’s not big enough.

This. If it isn't meant for cars it's not a garage.

Yup out in the country no one parks inside their garage. Attached or not. It’s meant for sleds or quads and storage.

Looks good! What happen to the house in the picture?
That looks like a neat piece of property. What's up on the hill to the left?
ETA: where are you located?

We were burning the grass an it caught fire. It wasn’t livable but was gonna be my storage shed. It’s for the best because I can build his shed where it fits better now.

 

[Bad Eye Bill]

Around here, if it is open on the side and used to store farm machinery, it is a machine shed. If it has sides and is used to store things, it is a barn. If it is used to work on anything in, it is a shop.

Gotta have a lean-to around somewhere too, or as a buddy calls them, an up-against.

 

[OccupantRJ]

We call that a shelter.

 

[850xpeps]

Sooooo...... who here has attempted icf roof? Lol just a thought.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Sooooo...... who here has attempted icf roof? Lol just a thought.

Go to the Concrete Underground and talk to Doug.

 

[850xpeps]

Go to the Concrete Underground and talk to Doug.

That’s a thread under garage journal?

I’ve done plenty of form and pour concrete slabs for second and higher floors and roofs. All flat though. I am thinking of doing a sloped one for my house.

 

[NUTTSGT]

That’s a thread under garage journal?

Yes, I believe Doug used some in his build but can't remember off hand. I know another member from Illinois I believe was talking about doing an ICF build with a roof too.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145073


Not to discredit any other GJ members but I would easily say that Doug is one of the GJ concrete experts and very willing to share his knowledge.

 

[850xpeps]

Plans changed and I am doing a basement now for simplicity and efficiency reasons. Started digging yesterday.

Open to suggestions on weather or not I should put in floor heat in the basement slab. Basement ends up being about 9’ down from grade. The piping and insulation will cost me about $3k.

It will still be an icf build to the trusses.

 

[gnpenning]

My home is ICF with radiant heat. Basement up to the trusses. Absolutely love it. Basement, main floor and garage are all radiant heat. For me the only way to go. Just be sure and insulated under the slab.

I will be interested in how you setup for geothermal.

 

[850xpeps]

I’m not going to do geothermal. I’m looking into and air to water heat pump.... forced air for main part of house. If your main floor wood joists with radiant tubes? Do you have any forced air heat? How is your radiant run?

Yes I’ve made up my mind to do basement inslab heat. Will put down 2” insulation and tube at 16” on center in the slab.

 

[Richard Cranium]

looks great so far, keep on posting them pictures.

 

[gnpenning]

My last house I did the gypcrete on top of the decking(staple down), this house I did between the floor joists with foil backed insulation(staple up). Having done both staple down is by far the best for heat transfer and sound deadening. With the staple down use a plate several inches wider than the wall going on top. It will give the carpet guy a place to attach his tack strip and give you some wiggle room if needed with the wall. Both homes 100%radiant with fireplaces for ambiance/ backup if needed. The ICF home the gas fire place has to be run on low or it will run you out. The pilot light creates enough heat for the family room. I have to shut it off in the warmer months.

The ICF home I have no a/c, though it is plumbed and wired for it. I live in Montana. The sliding portion of my windows line up with the door ways. I open my windows at night. The temperatures will drop into the mid to low sixties. In the morning I close all the windows. I can come home at the end of the day, even on a upper 90° day and only pick up 3/4° temperature increase. It's all about thermal mass. Get it cold it stays cold, get it hot it stays hot. Window covers make a huge difference year round as well. I have a covered deck on the south side and the garage on the west side. I use the garage year round as the entrance to the home and let the garage be my air lock. As a warning even though you aren't adding a attached garage, a hot vehicle parked will really heat up the garage. This works so well I've had more than one person think that the a/c was a little on the cool side in the summer....

I also run a thermostatic attic fan. It pulls from the shaded side (east) and dumps the hot air to the west side. This helps alot. In the shoulder seasons and for the winter I shut it off. It will pull the day time heat out during the shoulder seasons and make the house cool enough at night you may want heat. With it off the house maintains a nice temperature. The on/off switch is down low in the garage. It took a few adjustments to get the on temperature set to were I was happy. Worth the effort.

My next place will be ICF and radiant heat as well. No a/c costs and low heating costs, with a extremely comfortable and quite home year round.

And yes, I understand some ICF dealers gouge people in other parts of the country but that hasn't been the case here.

Pm me a number and I'll answer what I can.

Congratulations on your new place

 

[850xpeps]

My last house I did the gypcrete on top of the decking(staple down), this house I did between the floor joists with foil backed insulation(staple up). Having done both staple down is by far the best for heat transfer and sound deadening. With the staple down use a plate several inches wider than the wall going on top. It will give the carpet guy a place to attach his tack strip and give you some wiggle room if needed with the wall. Both homes 100%radiant with fireplaces for ambiance/ backup if needed. The ICF home the gas fire place has to be run on low or it will run you out. The pilot light creates enough heat for the family room. I have to shut it off in the warmer months.

The ICF home I have no a/c, though it is plumbed and wired for it. I live in Montana. The sliding portion of my windows line up with the door ways. I open my windows at night. The temperatures will drop into the mid to low sixties. In the morning I close all the windows. I can come home at the end of the day, even on a upper 90° day and only pick up 3/4° temperature increase. It's all about thermal mass. Get it cold it stays cold, get it hot it stays hot. Window covers make a huge difference year round as well. I have a covered deck on the south side and the garage on the west side. I use the garage year round as the entrance to the home and let the garage be my air lock. As a warning even though you aren't adding a attached garage, a hot vehicle parked will really heat up the garage. This works so well I've had more than one person think that the a/c was a little on the cool side in the summer....

I also run a thermostatic attic fan. It pulls from the shaded side (east) and dumps the hot air to the west side. This helps alot. In the shoulder seasons and for the winter I shut it off. It will pull the day time heat out during the shoulder seasons and make the house cool enough at night you may want heat. With it off the house maintains a nice temperature. The on/off switch is down low in the garage. It took a few adjustments to get the on temperature set to were I was happy. Worth the effort.

My next place will be ICF and radiant heat as well. No a/c costs and low heating costs, with a extremely comfortable and quite home year round.

And yes, I understand some ICF dealers gouge people in other parts of the country but that hasn't been the case here.

Pm me a number and I'll answer what I can.

Congratulations on your new place

Thank you appreciate all your time in writing. I don’t mind your comments on here lol it’s all about discussion and finding out a better way. Hopefully others can learn too.

So do you use a boiler or another source? I called to get a quote started today for my hvac and he mentioned doing a home for someone just as radiant heat only and the guy don’t mind it. But installed no insulation on the main floor at all.

I don’t really wanna add another layer of cement on my main floor. It isn’t being designed for the weight and I don’t want to throw that kind of kink in it as I’m in a rush to get the basement done.

I will install a slab sensor for the basement to keep it a comfortable temperature.

 

[gnpenning]

Thank you appreciate all your time in writing. I don’t mind your comments on here lol it’s all about discussion and finding out a better way. Hopefully others can learn too.

So do you use a boiler or another source? I called to get a quote started today for my hvac and he mentioned doing a home for someone just as radiant heat only and the guy don’t mind it. But installed no insulation on the main floor at all.

I don’t really wanna add another layer of cement on my main floor. It isn’t being designed for the weight and I don’t want to throw that kind of kink in it as I’m in a rush to get the basement done.

I will install a slab sensor for the basement to keep it a comfortable temperature.

It's more about typing long answers on my phone, and crazy auto correct things I miss....

I used boilers on both systems and did most the work. The first was a Slant Fin boiler and Taco zone valves. the ICF home and cheaper wall mount that has worked very well for 10 years. The ICF home the boiler is a preheater for the water heater. A great feature that has served me well. I get my fair share of guests and have never run out of hot water, after multiple showers in a row.

The staple up use the aluminum transfer plates to hold the radiant pipe. This will help transfer the heat. Keep in mind any water lines in the same chase will absorb the heat and your cold water will be hot. The foil backed insulation will help separate the two if you keep your cold water lines below the insulation. Staple down this isn't a issue. The gypcrete in staple down will hold and transfer heat better. Staple up you need to make very sure your decking material is glued and screwed due to the heat cycles of the radiant heat wanting to heat and expand your decking. It also won't hold and transfer heat as efficiently, it's wood after all.

Check with a engineer but with staple down your beams will need to be upsized and and your floor joists will either have the number increased to maybe 12" on center instead of 16" on center or upsized. Which isn't a really big cost. Don't take my word for sizing on this. In my experience having both, the little difference in cost between the two for the gains and because of more potential for other issues, I will never use staple up again. Sometimes decision we quickly make have long term consequences we miss. Bottom line it's your place and money, please the person paying the bills and doing the work.

 

[850xpeps]

It's more about typing long answers on my phone, and crazy auto correct things I miss....



I used boilers on both systems and did most the work. The first was a Slant Fin boiler and Taco zone valves. the ICF home and cheaper wall mount that has worked very well for 10 years. The ICF home the boiler is a preheater for the water heater. A great feature that has served me well. I get my fair share of guests and have never run out of hot water, after multiple showers in a row.



The staple up use the aluminum transfer plates to hold the radiant pipe. This will help transfer the heat. Keep in mind any water lines in the same chase will absorb the heat and your cold water will be hot. The foil backed insulation will help separate the two if you keep your cold water lines below the insulation. Staple down this isn't a issue. The gypcrete in staple down will hold and transfer heat better. Staple up you need to make very sure your decking material is glued and screwed due to the heat cycles of the radiant heat wanting to heat and expand your decking. It also won't hold and transfer heat as efficiently, it's wood after all.



Check with a engineer but with staple down your beams will need to be upsized and and your floor joists will either have the number increased to maybe 12" on center instead of 16" on center or upsized. Which isn't a really big cost. Don't take my word for sizing on this. In my experience having both, the little difference in cost between the two for the gains and because of more potential for other issues, I will never use staple up again. Sometimes decision we quickly make have long term consequences we miss. Bottom line it's your place and money, please the person paying the bills and doing the work.

How did you attach your floor joists to the icf wall if you went all the way up with icf? Up here no one does this so I’m having a hard time finding the hanger I like. Do you install the infloor piping and gypcrete before the interior walls? If your staple down method what did you use for insulation? And it was installed on top the subfloor?

How do you deal with air movement in the house? Being a well sealed home I will need a good hrv setup to keep moisture down. But that only pulls from bathrooms and kitchen.

 

[gnpenning]

I used Amvic block. My dealer carried brackets that are put in place before you pour your cement. After you attach a "rim" joist to the metal brackets. Used the same ones for the front and back decks.

I should note that my basement used 8" and the main floor I used 6" block. The exterior was kept flush, the step is easily hidden inside. I'll try and take pictures later??

With staple down you lay out all your interior walls and nail down treated lumber. See previous about using wider plate. Depending on your zones, Anywhere your pex may need to go into the next room just cut your plates as needed. When you pour the gypcrete the plates are now your screed height. Very simple. Yes, you pour directly on your decking. I didn't use any insulation on the staple down, never had a issue with it heating up the water lines, don't think I lost much heat transferring down through the wood. I used 1/2 pex 3/4 you will need a thicker plate.

I was worried about the same thing. I didn't go top of the line window( I wouldn't recommend). I put all the fart fans on timers and turn them on during the day. Be sure to crack a window, this actually works very well. When I sell this house the next place will have a real HRV system. The problem will be sizing for my different areas that won't break the bank. The next place will be a shop with living quarters. It will be broken up into home, garage, wood shop, mechanical/welding shop. The living part will be standard HRV. The rest I haven't decided yet. I've done some research on under ground pipes picking up heat from the ground. The woodshop I have now, my dust collection is vented to the outside during the summer months. I get so few fines that make it thru the cyclone part that I feel comfortable venting outside year round. The make up air with a normal HRV will be expensive to size hence considering the piping thought. The mechanical/welding will be even worse since I want a down draft fan for the welding area and different system for vehicle exhaust. I'm open to suggestions here.

Short answer get a properly sized system for the house.

As a side note, the house is very tight. I use the smoke detectors for the dinner bell... if I don't run the fans the smell will stay for weeks and mixing with everything else I burned..... I will use a whole house fan next time as well, and a range fan that isn't just a charcoal filter.

 

[850xpeps]

I’ll be going with logix. I didn’t like the ledger hanger bs they were selling with the kit. I wanted to do away with the ledger. I will be going 4” main floor walls. So now with that and 8” taper top on the basement I will get enough meat for my joists to sit on. Problem solved lol. I think I’m going to stick with main floor forced air. While I like your idea I don’t have the guts to try it and find out it might not work in my situation. If I didn’t have small kids and we could control stuff more I would probably do it.

 

[gnpenning]

No worries. Like I said previously, make the person happy that is writing the check.

I will say I had small kids with the gypcrete. They would have to be pretty rowdy for you to hear them. When you could, it was time to go check on what was going on. I used to call them assassination attempts....

Btw, Logix makes a good block.

Remember to update as you go.

 

[850xpeps]

No worries. Like I said previously, make the person happy that is writing the check.

I will say I had small kids with the gypcrete. They would have to be pretty rowdy for you to hear them. When you could, it was time to go check on what was going on. I used to call them assassination attempts....

Btw, Logix makes a good block.

Remember to update as you go.

Ya locally we get amvic and fox. I prefer logix as I used to use it more. I don’t like the 6” rib spacing of amvic.

 

[850xpeps]

Footings finished and poured today.