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Between 485 & 705 SQ/FT Mid-Century Moto Mecca Makeover

Workspaces between 485 and 705 squarefeet.

JSkinner

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Joined
Jan 28, 2018
Messages
7
Location
Joplin,Mo
So I am about halfway through this thread and am in awe of all your skills. I have about 30 GJ tabs open and when I see a new cool build my ADD kicks in and I skip over there, but your build has kept me mostly focused, always coming back for more. I am also afflicted with the OCD and always trying to do something different and better. I'm also a woodworker who has been admiring metalworking and want to learn it too, so this thread gave me a huge woody, or is it a hardwoody?

I love Festool and any well made tool brand. I don't know if you have heard of Bridge City Tools but if you haven't they seem right up your alley.

Lol, props on all you have learned and your photography is amazing! I definitely have a man crush now.
 
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JSkinner

Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2018
Messages
7
Location
Joplin,Mo
I love my tool ****, wood **** and garage ****. I think your thread hit on all of them! And I just hit on your pocket knife post on page #68, it seems your tastes are as high end as mine. I have a Benchmade Adamas and Zero Tolerance 0350TSST and have been drooling over the Chris Reeves.

Also if you have ever heard of Incra?
p_lssuper_main_zoom.png


These are the bees knees for jointmaking.

Okay I'm going to stop now because i'm talking about things that happened years ago lol. See you guys when I catch up!
 

MEngineer

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Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
345
Location
Everett, Wa
So I am about halfway through this thread and am in awe of all your skills. I have about 30 GJ tabs open and when I see a new cool build my ADD kicks in and I skip over there, but your build has kept me mostly focused, always coming back for more. I am also afflicted with the OCD and always trying to do something different and better. I'm also a woodworker who has been admiring metalworking and want to learn it too, so this thread gave me a huge woody, or is it a hardwoody?

I love Festool and any well made tool brand. I don't know if you have heard of Bridge City Tools but if you haven't they seem right up your alley.

Lol, props on all you have learned and your photography is amazing! I definitely have a man crush now.


Holy **** that is a **** tool, and I dont normally say that!
 

neilc

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Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
94
Location
Chicagoland
Bridge City Tools is right in Portland. Gregor should look them up. Founder John Economaki would appreciate the level of craft he brings to everything.
 

Digitalex

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Jan 31, 2018
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1
Hi there. Short time listener (primarily this thread!!) - first time caller. After 2 months of lunch time reading at work I have finally caught up.

We finally decided to make the move to a single family home after condo living for 12 years. I finally have a modest 2 car garage and 3/4 Century wannabe Craftsmen Colonial. The house itself only needed minor work but being a modder type I wanted to update things a little. Since day 1 we've been doing updates and I had to prioritize (wife and interior of house first and then garage).

Anyway my good friend RKA (my version of Ben) has been helping me along the way the last 4 months with trim work (and poisoning me buy lending me his Festool goodies). He's been telling me about this thread a few times and finally linked me to it. I have to say that this is the most enjoyable thread I have read in all my forum reading life. I knew I could get some great tips and learn a lot but damn...I did not know I would be hooked on a whole different level.

Gregor, this thread has been a constant source of inspiration on so many levels. You have shared so much on a personal, philosophical, technical and artistic level over the course of 5 years that I am on sensory overload. You have so many words of wisdom that resonate with me. When I started getting tired of the repetitive projects, I'd see Jorge sanding the ceiling or you hand painting and staining cabinets and panels. My motivation was renewed. As many others have said, your attention to detail and tenacity is unmatched. You do it because someone said you can't. Your Breaking Bad episode where you obsessed over the stain formula for panel matching was fantastic. The restoration of the house, garage, camper and van leaves me in awe. Nothing more needs to be said about your photography except I aspire to that level. The fact you can balance family life while on this journey makes me smile.

Sorry for the long winded man-crush intro but I just had to comment on the positive impact you've had on me as I read through each page. I'm going back to eating my mofo-ing pancakes now.
 
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sakurama

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Portland - the cool one.
Hi there. Short time listener (primarily this thread!!) - first time caller. After 2 months of lunch time reading at work I have finally caught up.

...snip...

Sorry for the long winded man-crush intro but I just had to comment on the positive impact you've had on me as I read through each page. I'm going back to eating my mofo-ing pancakes now.

Wow, thanks so much. I really started to document projects because it was a way to help keep the momentum going on the first build I ever did - the BMW cafe bike. That bike really changed my life (and is set to do so again) but also it showed me that people enjoyed learning as I was learning.

I probably should have jumped on the YouTube bandwagon (and a certain "Locul" has been pestering me to do it for years now - I may yet relent) but still photos and the written word are what's most natural for me. Again, the writing sort of came about because when I was a young photojournalist the editors often made disparaging remarks about the inability of photographers to write even captions. Oh, yeah? I read Strunk & White and then a bunch of Hemingway, Nabokov and and John Kennedy Toole and realized that while I'll never be them I could just write as me.

And here we are.

I am constantly humbled and amazed that people have found this journey rewarding and worthwhile. I can honestly say that I get as much support from the people here as you could get from me. Sometimes when I'm frustrated and ready to quit I will read a note like yours and get reenergized. So it works both ways.

So thanks.

This whole week was spent putting a new floor in the van - what a pain in the ***. I've learned a lot and will summarize once I get it wrapped up...

Gregor
 
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sakurama

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Bridge City Tools is right in Portland. Gregor should look them up. Founder John Economaki would appreciate the level of craft he brings to everything.

So beautiful. Sooooo expensive. Since I consider myself only a barely capable carpenter and by no means a "woodworker" those tools are way out of my league.

But wow.

When I was learning how to play pool I was starting to get good and I got my own cue from my second cousin who was once a world champion. Instantly the game changed when you had your own cue - and for me it was not for the better...

Gregor
 

BoilermakerFan

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Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
When I was learning how to play pool I was starting to get good and I got my own cue from my second cousin who was once a world champion. Instantly the game changed when you had your own cue - and for me it was not for the better...

Gregor

:lol: Ah man, I know that all too well! Have you tried throwing darts? I discovered I'm a MUCH better dart player than pool player. And I built my own set of darts with barrels from a cheap soft tip board. I've had them for 24 years now and they travel with me whenever I take business trips. Other sets of darts have come and gone, but my inexpensive custom set is still with me and still puts a beverage in my glass or change in my pocket when the time comes.
 
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sakurama

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:lol: Ah man, I know that all too well! Have you tried throwing darts? I discovered I'm a MUCH better dart player than pool player.

Ha, me too. I still play once in a while but no longer compete. If you could call it that. I used to play the weekly blind draw matches in college and then for a bit in NYC. Love darts.

G
 

BoilermakerFan

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Messages
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Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
Ha, me too. I still play once in a while but no longer compete. If you could call it that. I used to play the weekly blind draw matches in college and then for a bit in NYC. Love darts.

G

So... when do we get to see you design a set of darts and fab them up? And then make a wicked MCM dart board cabinet? I have plans to completely refurb the dart board cabinet and wall section in my garage when I finally get to start finishing off the garage walls.
 

neilc

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Jan 17, 2014
Messages
94
Location
Chicagoland
Gregor - the Subtle Shuttle link in your footer has a malformed URL. It's missing the : after http in the link.
 

locul

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Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
98
Ahhh the dreaded YT talk.

If it suits you Gregor. Thats all, i just think you got this. I know that it will take a lot of work and editing. But as mentioned your eyes are trained to see the picture and i´m damn sure you could kill it with video to.
I assume you are levels above most on here regarding detailing and persistency. Add that into account most of us still can relate to you still being an "ordinary" garage dude who just got "talent"(lol).

The Sony A7(its an A7 you got isn´t it?) should make some killer shots in the garage...

Imagine, slowmo turning the lathe, festools walking down the track, panning shots passing the airheads patinated engine...

its getting hot in here.

If you do, i will donate my Zoom H4n for the greater good. Not much use in Iraq anyways ;-) I´m sure that no matter what you choose you will exceed all expectations.


Go slay
 

locul

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Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
98
ohh and this is where i really shine.

Predictions. 5,78% of the time i have 100% right
 

JKLiNx

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Mar 8, 2018
Messages
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Location
Royal Oak, MI
Man, I'm glad I've discovered this place after being linked to this thread from GRM! I don't really know what all to say that hasn't already been said, but I've spent time off-and-on over the last several months reading this thread from top to bottom (well, trying to limit to just Gregor's posts to streamline a bit). Everything in here is rather inspiring, as if I didn't already have a few regrets in life, I've now expanded on that list a bit more :lol:. While I can't see myself gathering up a collection of Festool gear, this at least does reinforce my "you don't know until you try" mindset that I've been trying to instill in my 5y/o (and eventually, 3y/o).

Keep it coming Gregor, excited to hear what these future plans of yours are.
 
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driftpin

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Gregor, I've read some of your home post thread, but seeing comments about the 4WD diesel Ford van, I binge-read it in one sitting. It's very entertaining. Matter-of-fact, from reading it, I received 100% Satisfaction.

Your home thread has what seems much-more on the carpentry and fab side, along w/the mcy info, to be-expected. Something that I appreciate is your ability to explain your path, and the visuals you include through your mastery of photography.

You freely-admit that you aren't as-well-versed in the truck mechanicals, but you found a good shop, and once the title issues were solved, it was jumping into the project with your wallet flapping-open, to get things where you wanted them. I've never owned a diesel, nor a 4X4, but I've owned three vans at the same time, so I had that last one covered.

Reading that the build was finally done as the vacation time approached, that you left on the trip, towing, well, you have more-optimism than I do. I'm glad that it went through OK, and the pics of the trip, being above the tree line, being able to use the 4WD, then the return, and shots along the coast, you fulfilled your desires, 'good on-ya.'

Now I have to go see the developments in the mid-century modern. I've enjoyed the time I spent. I had an airhead, a 60th anniversary R100RT that I rode back & forth to college while working full-time on fire-rescue, but the only thing close to the one you have was a 'flying brick' with a one-off custom aluminum bodywork I saw many years-ago at the Daytona Beach Bike Week auction. It was so-long ago, I took pictures of it with my OM-2n Olympus, which I purchased new. Back then I shot mostly with Kodak Vericolor. Reading your tips on nightime photography, painting with a light source, and how-to get properly-exposed stellar exposures transported me back to the days of using that aperture-priority, off the film plane metering camera that gave me 20 years of great photographs before the electronics failed, despite multiple attempts to have it fixed. I'm sure your customers get their money's worth. I am going to enjoy your future posts, thank-you.
 
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sakurama

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Portland - the cool one.
Hello again. Sorry for the long delay in any kind of update. I have been dealing with an issue with my van for the past year that has finally come to a head this past month. The result has been a month of stress that has not left me in a mood to post up.

________________________________________________________________​

When we last left off I was attempting to make more room in the shop for future projects. I have done exactly the opposite making less room with more projects. Sort of.

I have a fantastic cold saw that I love and use all the time. But when i need to cut stock or material that is larger than 4" I really don't have a way. I owned a smaller 14" Delta saw but it can't cut steel because the blade speed is too fast. Steel needs a slow speed to prevent overheating or breaking the blade.

I started looking for a used Doall saw but they're expensive ($2-3000) and heavy (1500lbs) which, for a small shop like mine, makes them a poor choice. Also, the PNW is slim pickings for machine tools and shipping a big band saw can cost as much as $600-2000. So I've been keeping my eye on local options when a 20" Rockwell showed up on eBay for $1700.

It was a good deal at $1700 but I took a chance and let the auction run out. Big tools that can't be easily shipped are a hard thing to sell on ebay and most of the time they don't sell for that reason. The saw got no bids thankfully and after a few weeks of back and forth messages I finally went to take a look at the saw. It was near Bend, OR and it was partly disassembled, poorly repainted and the doors didn't shut but it was all there. If you were trying to sell something this would be the text book way not to present it.

I feigned non interest, pointed to the poor condition and bluffed that I had another saw to look at and said I could only offer between $6-700. He said $650 and I accepted.

i-99RV4PW-X2.jpg


I came back the next week with a tilt bed trailer, a couple of super heavy ratcheting tie downs and a screw gun to screw the pallet into the bed. While there was a forklift to load the saw if I chose to put it in my pickup it would have been dangerous as the saw weighs about 770lbs.

I wish I could show you the photos of Ben and my friend Taylor unloading it off the trailer but bandsaws are top heavy, unwieldy and hard to move. Oh, it was also 3" taller than my garage door - something I failed to take into consideration.

i-2bfVPW9-X2.jpg


This is the definition of crowded.

To move it we took off the table (100lbs) and the electrical box on the spine (the only side with no knobs or doors) and perched it on top of wooden dowels and rolled it into the garage on it's back pyramid style. Worked perfectly. No one slipped a disc.

i-Df2LSgJ-X2.jpg


The first issue was the doors not closing. Years of ham-handed closing while something blocked the door had tweaked or bent most of the hinges.

i-9HWWXJm-X2.jpg


My first thought was to buy new ones from McMaster but I couldn't find a match. My next thought was, "I'm wasting time that could be used with a hammer..." and in about 30 minutes I had a set of straight hinges.

i-PJDLkFH-X2.jpg


Next I started to look online for a table insert... and then saw the stack of 3" aluminum rounds in my material storage.

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Ironically I tried to cut the slot with the actual band saw before I milled it. Two things; the blade was so worn it probably couldn't cut butter, and two, there's a reason that band saws have table inserts - it will **** your part right into that hole. Yikes!

Next up I gave the table a quick cleaning.

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PB Blaster or WD40 and a green scotch-brite pad have always done well by me. Spray it and scrub and then wipe it up with a shop rag.

If you're curious as to what that hose is next to the blade it's an air hose...

i-P96txFH-X2.jpg


...supplied by an air pump driven off the end of the engine shaft that is used to blow the chips away. Pretty rare and pretty rad.

i-Dt8G7Wx-X2.jpg


i-866rw8c-X2.jpg


And this is the reason I bought the saw - a speed range covering 50 fps (feet per second) and 4500 fps. While you want speed to cut wood you need to slow things down to cut metal. Some wood saws can slow down enough to cut thin aluminum but thicker blocks need about 1000 fps - much lower than a wood saw is capable of. Hardened steel might require a speed as slow as 50 fps but generally 100-200 without putting too much pressure on the blade is what you want. This saw will probably never see north of 1000 fps.

Finally I ordered a couple of blades from Oregon Carbide Saw - one of my favorite shops in Portland. The blades come in that neat coil which I have not been able to replicate so today I asked Alan to teach me the trick.

It's a shame that we can't embed video here so you'll just have to click this link.

To those of you wondering why I've not stripped it and painted it gray like everything else... keep wondering! Seriously, I'm trying to do my best to limit the things that I'm taking on. The blue bugs me but I have no space or time at the moment to try to remedy this. Nonetheless it has been therapeutic to put in 30 minutes here or there to get the saw dialed in but no, I can't/won't repaint it.

i-SdrMMKf-X2.jpg


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And thankfully I don't need to.

The last thing that I need to do is make more blade guides. Rockwell uses a system of stacked plates that you can adjust by adding or subtracting so that the blade is supported but the teeth are exposed. This photo shows a 3/4" blade that is not sufficiently supported.

I have looked but not found replacement guide plates. My thought is to take them to my water jet cutter and have him make me a dozen or so in O1 steel which I can then harden with the torch and an oil quench. The other option is carbide brazing and I'm not sure I want to learn to do that at the moment. If someone has a better idea let me know. Bronze? A2? Plastic?

The other thing is that the saw has the complete set of rails and fence - another very rare item that has sold for as much as what I paid for the whole saw. The trouble is that they are very long and stick out several feet. I was considering cutting them down to fit the table since I would probably never be cutting material so wide but I've decided to hold off and just not keep them mounted. For those of you with large bandsaws - do you use the fence very often? I can see using it for wood but I can't for metal. Let me know what you think. I'd hate to cut them and then regret it later.

Anyway, I am very pleased with the saw, my patience paid off and there are no issues with it. That, right now, is a relief.

Gregor
 

locul

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Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
98
Man that is cool. Milling, turning and a saw. The holy trinity. 4th dimension is when you Tig this radness together again.

You are lucky and bad ***.

Go eat your Ebelskiver
 
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zmotorsports

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Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,440
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Northern Utah
Gregor, the saw turned out great. Nice score and great job bringing it back to life.

I too live in a machine desert and finding good used equipment is next to impossible. I had a small 14" Wilton vertical bandsaw for years that worked ok but I really wanted about a 20" DoAll and like you, simply couldn't find one, not even anything close. I bought a new Birmingham which is a Taiwanese import and a DoAll knockoff I'm sure as it looks identical to a DoAll. Mine has the small air blower as well that helps to keep the metal out of the teeth as well as helps cool the blade. I've only had mine for about 2-1/2 year now but grin every time I turn it on and use it.

Nice score Gregor.
 

Prometheus

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May 17, 2006
Messages
104
Gregor,

owwm.org will have the answers you seek re: the guide plates. One of the most knowledgeable groups of guys on the 'net.

-Adrian
 

63Denied

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Oct 6, 2013
Messages
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Location
Mahopac, NY
Well Gregor. It’s been a week of reading every post on this thread and I finally caught up to your life. I found you from GJ’s “And the nominees are” thread of best threads to read and I was not disappointed. Thank you for you talent, instruction, creativity, and drive. As you’ve seen, you’ve inspired many (Festool purchase anyone?) including myself. As someone else said earlier, I have about a dozen other tabs open in my browser that I have to go read now. Thanks a lot! Lol. I look forward to following your future progress. Thank you so much.
 

250

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West of the Sierras
Nice pick up on the band saw. I'm sure you'll find some good uses for it, I know the band saws in my shop get used quite a bit. I'm sure you've got a super slick way for blade storage already planned out.

I'd pocket that OEM fence intact if you're not sure what to do with it. Original accessories are hard to come by, as I'm sure you know, and if down the road you've never used it, I'm sure there is someone over on OWWM that would love to add it their saw.
 
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sakurama

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I'd pocket that OEM fence intact if you're not sure what to do with it. Original accessories are hard to come by, as I'm sure you know, and if down the road you've never used it, I'm sure there is someone over on OWWM that would love to add it their saw.

Yeah, I've never used a fence much and I have the miter/cross cut slide as well which I do use so your advice is spot on. If I find a second set of tubes I'll cut them down and remount them but for now I'll just look for a spot where I can stuff them - perhaps in the base?

Gregor
 

slodat

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I have the Carter magnet base fence, should I ever want to use one. There are occasions working with plastics that I've used it. On my metal cutting vertical bandsaws I have never used a fence and don't see application for one. I have the woodworking twin to your 20. It is an outstanding machine. I use it daily and smile every time. Enjoy!
 

250

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but for now I'll just look for a spot where I can stuff them - perhaps in the base?

Looks like a tight fit. I suppose if there isn't any way for them to get into the running gear it would be a slick spot where they wouldn't get lost. Then 20 years from now a great little easter egg to find.
 

dr_clyde

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Those blade guides should be made from solid carbide. I would have some wire EDM cut to fit your saw if you can't find OEM ones. They will be expensive, but they will likely outlast the rest of the saw.
 
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sakurama

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Portland - the cool one.
Those blade guides should be made from solid carbide. I would have some wire EDM cut to fit your saw if you can't find OEM ones. They will be expensive, but they will likely outlast the rest of the saw.

Thanks for the idea. I was afraid of using that much carbide so I thought I'd just try O1 and flame hardened with an oil quench and see how that did. It's not like it's a production saw so it won't get much use. The other option was to braze on carbide to steel - which, for a dozen inserts, seems like a lot of work.

So would O1 be an option?

Gregor
 

Finallygotit

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O-1 is an option. You can get that fairly hard, maybe too hard without some tempering.

Have you thought about using bearings on each side and the back of the blade?

:beer:
 
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sakurama

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O-1 is an option. You can get that fairly hard, maybe too hard without some tempering.

Have you thought about using bearings on each side and the back of the blade?

:beer:

I’m trying to not reinvent the wheel so I’m hoping to just copy what’s there. There are kits that will replace the guides with bearings but from what I’ve read that is more useful at wood speeds where the friction and blade speed is an issue. Right now I’m cutting between 100 and 1000 FPS so I’m guessing it shouldn’t be an issue. Also, from what I’ve read, the side guides aren’t for support but rather to damp out vibration in the blade.

Gregor
 

Finallygotit

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I’m trying to not reinvent the wheel so I’m hoping to just copy what’s there. There are kits that will replace the guides with bearings but from what I’ve read that is more useful at wood speeds where the friction and blade speed is an issue. Right now I’m cutting between 100 and 1000 FPS so I’m guessing it shouldn’t be an issue. Also, from what I’ve read, the side guides aren’t for support but rather to damp out vibration in the blade.

Gregor

Gregor, from my experience, every machine shop that I worked in or was involved with, replaced the static guides for the bearings. The static guides always wore out pretty quickly when cutting steel. And yes, the side guides are there for support and keep the blade from wandering. Please understand, I hope I'm not coming off like an ***, but I just want to dispel some inaccuracies.

But if you feel the static guides are great for your use, by all means go for it.

BTW, still jealous of your saw!

Take care

:beer:
 

dr_clyde

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O1 will probably work fine for a home shop saw, but carbide is what is meant to be there.

Both my Do-All bandsaws (horizontal and vertical) from the 1960's have their original carbide blade guides and are not even close to wore out.

Either way, I would use a solid guide instead of a roller. On a vertical saw, the rear has a roller for when you are pushing into it, the side guides are there for blade support for contour sawing, and as such don't see much wear as the rear.

I worked in a shop that had a W.F. Wells horizontal, and it had roller guides all around, and I had to replace them at least once. They just aren't as long lived as carbide. Chips and coolant get in them whether you are careful or not.
 

Finallygotit

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..........I worked in a shop that had a W.F. Wells horizontal, and it had roller guides all around, and I had to replace them at least once. They just aren't as long lived as carbide. Chips and coolant get in them whether you are careful or not.

I agree with this. :thumbup:

:beer:
 
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sakurama

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Both my Do-All bandsaws (horizontal and vertical) from the 1960's have their original carbide blade guides and are not even close to wore out.

Okay, that's about the best humble brag I've heard! Both my Do-All's... That's up there with both my Ferrari's and "my other lathe" Ha!

I'm going to give the O1 a try and see how it works out. Honestly my cold saw sees most of the work and the bandsaw is for larger stock and until I see how it fits into the work of the shop there's no reason to go crazy just yet.

Both my Do-All's... sheesh! :lol_hitti

I've seen shops with multiple saws and as we transition away from manual machines to CNC and digital printing the traditional machine shop is becoming more and more rare. I always loved visiting them even when I didn't understand them.

Gregor
 

Sham

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Antibes, France
I've seen shops with multiple saws and as we transition away from manual machines to CNC and digital printing the traditional machine shop is becoming more and more rare. I always loved visiting them even when I didn't understand them.

So much yes.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind adding a CNC to my own shop, but nothing beats the sexiness (yes, I said it) of vintage manual machinery.

And the smell! The 3D printing melting plastic will never, ever, EVER, have the same appeal as good old machinist oil on a 1950s machine...

Last but not least, these machines were made to last - and they still do, decade after decade. Meanwhile, I wouldn't bet your 3D Printers or CNC will be around that long, being replaced by the new shiny version.

Anyway, glad to see you back Gregor, pretty excited by the direction you're taking now. :thumbup:
 
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