Child proof outlets - Possible to disable??

[swharris]

I did not look closely enough before final sign off, but apparently my electrician put in the outlets that have child proof plastic inserts that cover the plug holes when not in use(not sure if this was required by code, but it would not surprise me). They are a ROYAL PITA to plug something in to!!! Is there a way to disable this "feature"? I don't want to replace all the outlets with the normal outlets if at all possible. I understand I'll most likely have to pull each and every duplex outlet to mod them.

Thanks for any help.

 

[mike93lx]

TR is code today. You can't disable it without cracking open every outlet and then gluing them back together.

You can still buy non TR. Just buy a few bulk packs of regular, swap them, but keep the TR so you can swap back if you sell.

 

[Bryanthegreat]

I would replace the high use plugs that you use on a regular basis and leave the ones that you have items in that are more permanent.

 

[tab2]

Another example of a few idiots ruining it for everyone...

You will get used to it and once you figure it out, you will be able to use them without thinking about it. I actually like them for the kitchen since I feel like it keeps some of the **** out.

 

[AntonLargiader]

You have to push the plug straight in, with both prongs even with each other. Then the gates open easily. They are not just spring-loaded resistance; they are interlocked to prevent one opening without the other.

 

[cybrdyke]

They're not "child resistant", they're "idiot resistant".
I got a C-note that says more injuries are to adults than children.
CD

 

[AntonLargiader]

They're not "child resistant", they're "idiot resistant".
I got a C-note that says more injuries are to adults than children.
CD

Does your nomenclature matter? They're designed to prevent people who don't know better from getting zapped. Not knowing better doesn't make someone an idiot, especially (but not exclusively) when that person is a small child.

 

[lakeroadster]

I did not look closely enough before final sign off, but apparently my electrician put in the outlets that have child proof plastic inserts that cover the plug holes when not in use(not sure if this was required by code, but it would not surprise me). They are a ROYAL PITA to plug something in to!!! Is there a way to disable this "feature"? I don't want to replace all the outlets with the normal outlets if at all possible. I understand I'll most likely have to pull each and every duplex outlet to mod them.

Thanks for any help.

I hate them too. Understand though that Temper Resistant is now a code requirement.

Amazing we have lived all these years without them

Does your nomenclature matter? They're designed to prevent people who don't know better from getting zapped. Not knowing better doesn't make someone an idiot, especially (but not exclusively) when that person is a small child.

Well, yeah, some outlets.

TR's are "mandated" for the 110 Volt <20 amp outlets.. but a 3 prong 220 Volt 50 amp welder outlet or 30 amp 220 Volt freezer / dryer outlet sits there old school wide open.

Thank God the government is here to "logically" help us through this mine field of death and mayhem.. in our garages and out buildings.

Remember... this is The Garage Journal.... not The Nursery Room Journal.

The logic and the code applications are half assed and that seems S.O.P. today.

Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead....

 

[AntonLargiader]

They are "mandated" for the 110 Volt <20 amp outlets.. but a 3 prong 220 Volt 50 amp welder outlet or 30 amp 220 Volt freezer / dryer outlet sits there old school wide open..

I'd classify that as "straw man" but I'm not an expert on logical fallacies.

Read about where they are required and see how likely it is that someone needs a welder outlet in the same place. Freezer/dryer receps tend to be less accessible and yeah, sometimes safety is a compromise. 240V may become TR in time as well. Safety measure like these tend to propagate over time. Look at GFCI and AFCI.

 

[lakeroadster]

I'd classify that as "straw man" but I'm not an expert on logical fallacies.

Read about where they are required and see how likely it is that someone needs a welder outlet in the same place. Freezer/dryer receps tend to be less accessible and yeah, sometimes safety is a compromise. 240V may become TR in time as well. Safety measure like these tend to propagate over time. Look at GFCI and AFCI.

No restrictions on accessibility in the code..... and TR's are required in garages and out buildings. My barn is considered a "garage" because it has "overhead doors"... thus it needed TR outlets, that's the logic trail I was told by the local authorities.

Safety propagates because the code isn't looking logically at the issue from the start.

If the premise is, as you state it:

They're designed to prevent people who don't know better from getting zapped. Not knowing better doesn't make someone an idiot, especially (but not exclusively) when that person is a small child.

Then every outlet should be TR.

Instead the code specifies 15 & 20 amp 110 Volt outlets and not the outlets that actually are more dangerous to those that are prone to get "zapped", as you put it.

 

[ripperd]

Then every outlet should be TR.

Instead the code specifies 15 & 20 amp 110 Volt outlets and not the outlets that actually are more dangerous to those that are prone to get "zapped", as you put it.

Except, as the other poster stated, the deal is child proofing.

You live in a very weirdly designed house if your 1 year old can crawl around and poke things into 240v outlets. That type of outlet is either in a garage, where a child should be supervised very closely, or behind an appliance, where a child cannot reach it.

Contrast this to the 15+ 120v duplex outlets they can easily reach in living rooms and bedrooms.

I absolutely love the TR outlets. Having young children it has been significantly more convenient (and safe) not having to deal with the stupid outlet plugs and the potential to forget to plug one back in.

Quit being a curmudgeon.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Then every outlet should be TR.

"All or nothing" is a different fallacy. Maybe that's the False Dichotomy?

TR is a compromise intended to counter the likely risks. An infant crawling on your metal fab shop workbench or on a ladder messing with the ceiling recep are just not likely risks. But again, I suspect the definition of likely risk will spread over time. Where's the harm in making 240V receps TR? Wouldn't bother me in the least. If they were available I'd use them, and they probably will be. I'd prefer a totally different, safer recep but that's a different subject.

What are you really proposing? That we shouldn't protect stuff where we can reasonably do so? That electrical safety should deliberately be a half-assed thing as some sort of survival of the fittest process?

 

[exranger06]

240v outlets are not more dangerous than a 120v outlet. If you stick a paper clip into a slot on a 240v outlet, you'll get hit with 120v of electricity, because one slot is 120v with respect to ground. The only way you'd get hit with 240v is if you stuck paper clips into 2 slots at once with both hands.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Amazing we have lived all these years without them

Then again, if no one had never been electrocuted there wouldn't be a reason for them.

but a 3 prong 220 Volt 50 amp welder outlet or 30 amp 220 Volt freezer / dryer outlet sits there old school wide open.

The vast majority of houses don't have open welder receptacles, and the vast majority that have dryer receptacles have a dryer plugged in so they aren't accessible to a kid with a hairpin.

 

[Falcon67]

Does your nomenclature matter? They're designed to prevent people who don't know better from getting zapped. Not knowing better doesn't make someone an idiot, especially (but not exclusively) when that person is a small child.

I did the bobby pin in the wall socket thing when I was a kid. Guess what I learned? Also over the years I learned that a large percentage of "idiots" are really "idiot savants" and will cleverly circumvent any safety barriers designed to protect them.

 

[lakeroadster]

..You live in a very weirdly designed house if your 1 year old can crawl around and poke things into 240v outlets. That type of outlet is either in a garage, where a child should be supervised very closely, or behind an appliance, where a child cannot reach it.

The vast majority of houses don't have open welder receptacles, and the vast majority that have dryer receptacles have a dryer plugged in so they aren't accessible to a kid with a hairpin.

Hmm... isn't this The Garage Journal?

All my comments are in regard to TR outlets in a Garage or Barn or Outbuilding.

And I assumed the OP was talking about his Garage too.

What are you really proposing? That we shouldn't protect stuff where we can reasonably do so? That electrical safety should deliberately be a half-assed thing as some sort of survival of the fittest process?

All I am proposing is for the code to be consistent in it's application of outlets in my garage / outbuilding. It makes zero sense for the code to specify in my barn that I must use a TR 110 volt 20 amp outlet when right beside that same low amp TR outlet is an open 220 volt 50 amp outlet.

If consistency in the application of a code seems to be far fetched to others... so be it.

240v outlets are not more dangerous than a 120v outlet. If you stick a paper clip into a slot on a 240v outlet, you'll get hit with 120v of electricity, because one slot is 120v with respect to ground. The only way you'd get hit with 240v is if you stuck paper clips into 2 slots at once with both hands.

Think amps exranger, not volts. 1st use your paper clip on a 15 amp 110 volt outlet. Then try that same shtick on a 50 amp 110 volt leg of the 220V.

And the 110 probably has a GFI... and the 220 doesn't have a GFI.

I'm betting you'll then understand the difference.. if you live to tell the tale.

 

[CJ7VFR]

To get back on track with the OP's original thoughts, I have found that some TR receptacles are easier to plug and unplug things into and out of than others, even receptacles from the same manufacturer.

I have found that the white, higher priced/higher quality dual TR receptacles from Leviton are hard to plug things into until they get a bit of use and loosen up. However, I have also found that the exact same price/quality brown and black dual TR receptacles are very easy to plug things into right out of the box.

Why? They look the same to me, except for the color. So why would they be different?

I have also noticed that trying to plug in a 3 prong plug, where the larger neutral lug has that slight bulge at the end, is harder to plug into the TR receptacles than a 3 prong plug where the larger neutral lug is the same size all the way to the end. I also don't notice 2 prong plugs, with the same size lugs, having any issues either.

I wonder if that slight bulge on the end of the neutral lug gets hung up on the plastic piece inside the TR receptacle.

Jim

 

[exranger06]

Hmm... isn't this The Garage Journal?

Think amps exranger, not volts. 1st use your paper clip on a 15 amp 110 volt outlet. Then try that same shtick on a 50 amp 110 volt leg of the 220V.

And the 110 probably has a GFI... and the 220 doesn't have a GFI.

I'm betting you'll then understand the difference.. if you live to tell the tale.

Amps of a circuit has NOTHING to do with it. Just because you have a 15 amp circuit, does not mean you'll have 15 amps going through you if you stick a paper clip in the outlet. You'll have the EXACT SAME amount of current going through you if you stick something in a 50 amp circuit as you would a 15 amp circuit.

If you have a 100 watt light bulb on a 15 amp circuit and nothing else on the circuit, does that mean there's 15 amps of current going through the wire? NO. 100w divided by 120v = 0.83 A. Now substitute your body for the light bulb. The amount of current ONLY depends on the voltage and the resistance of your body, not on the breaker size.

 

[cybrdyke]

Does your nomenclature matter? They're designed to prevent people who don't know better from getting zapped. Not knowing better doesn't make someone an idiot, especially (but not exclusively) when that person is a small child.

Sorry you didn't detect the fun in my post. And thank you for pointing out the obvious that children dont know better.
Although I was jesting, my point was that I'd be willing to bet that there are more injuries to people who "know better" than there are to people that dont. That's an idiot vs ignorant scenario.

So, I looked it up...
In USA, 2400 kids per year are treated for 1st or 2nd degree burns from sticking things in electrical outlets. 50% are 2 or 3 yrs old. 89% are 6 or under. 71% of the incidents are at home. If preventing 2400 injuries to children is possible, let's do it.

The most recent stats I can find are from 2015 and they back up my premise.
These are emergency room statistics regarding injuries from electrical outlets.
27% were under the age of 5 (these are not idiots)
29% were between 5 and 17 (these are mostly not idiots)
44% were over 18 (these are idiots)
CD

 

[PelicanPines]

Amps of a circuit has NOTHING to do with it. Just because you have a 15 amp circuit, does not mean you'll have 15 amps going through you if you stick a paper clip in the outlet. You'll have the EXACT SAME amount of current going through you if you stick something in a 50 amp circuit as you would a 15 amp circuit.

If you have a 100 watt light bulb on a 15 amp circuit and nothing else on the circuit, does that mean there's 15 amps of current going through the wire? NO. 100w divided by 120v = 0.83 A. Now substitute your body for the light bulb. The amount of current ONLY depends on the voltage and the resistance of your body, not on the breaker size.

Wonder what my wattage is... I have to play with plugs today.

 

[strutaeng]

Damn, I just bought a few boxes of outlets for a home addition project in the future (includes bedrooms.) I bought the regular, heavy duty type. I forgot that code requires TR in certain areas.

I saw the TRon the shelf. I installed TR in our bedrooms some time ago, but I hate them! Some are nearly impossible to plug stuff into. And for the record, one of our kids managed to insert something into one of the TR outlets once, so they are not really "child proof." LOL

 

[lakeroadster]

Amps of a circuit has NOTHING to do with it. Just because you have a 15 amp circuit, does not mean you'll have 15 amps going through you if you stick a paper clip in the outlet. You'll have the EXACT SAME amount of current going through you if you stick something in a 50 amp circuit as you would a 15 amp circuit.

If you have a 100 watt light bulb on a 15 amp circuit and nothing else on the circuit, does that mean there's 15 amps of current going through the wire? NO. 100w divided by 120v = 0.83 A. Now substitute your body for the light bulb. The amount of current ONLY depends on the voltage and the resistance of your body, not on the breaker size.

If you plug a well grounded human body into it.. how's your theory work?

 

[AntonLargiader]

If you plug a well grounded human body into it.. how's your theory work?

They're the same up to 15A (when the 15A circuit would theoretically trip on short circuit). But I suspect that is WAY beyond the currents that we are talking about for typical electric shocks. EDIT: so in other words, they are the same.

 

[Bert_]

I don't like them very much. Some of them aren't too bad to use but the cheap ones are generally awful.

Around here if it is not attached to the house it does not get tamper resistant receptacles. I have done a couple attached garages that were more of a shop (16' ceiling, big doors, welders). I did not use tamper resistant receptacles in those either. Inspector agreed with my choices.

As for the 15A vs 50A debate, either has more than enough amps available to kill you. It only takes a few mili amps to stop your heart. This is why we have GFCI's.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

This probably is not a "good" question, but one I have to ask.....When the oh-so-wise code writers were authoring the tamper resistant receptacle rules, did they, by any chance, include any exceptions, where the TR devices are not required?

For example, what if I install the receptacles in my future GARAGE, which has zero chances of unsupervised children being in it, at 4 feet AFF? ...or 5' AFF. What about receptacles installed in the ceiling, and intended for light fixtures?


.

 

[lakeroadster]

This probably is not a "good" question, but one I have to ask.....When the oh-so-wise code writers were authoring the tamper resistant receptacle rules, did they, by any chance, include any exceptions, where the TR devices are not required?

For example, what if I install the receptacles in my future GARAGE, which has zero chances of unsupervised children being in it, at 4 feet AFF? ...or 5' AFF. What about receptacles installed in the ceiling, and intended for light fixtures?

Links to topic:

• Tamper proof in a detached garage
  
• "Tamper Proof Outlets / NEC Requirement"
  
• Where are tamper-resistant receptacles required?
  

Q. Where are tamper-resistant receptacles required?

A. All nonlocking type 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles in the following areas of a dwelling unit [210.52] must be listed as tamper-resistant [406.12].

Wall space — 210.52(A)
Small-appliance circuit — 210.52(B)
Countertop space — 210.52(C)
Bathroom area — 210.52(D)
Outdoors — 210.52(E)
Laundry area — 210.52(F)
Garage and outbuildings — 210.52(G)
Hallways — 210.52(H)

Exception: Receptacles in the following locations aren’t required to be tamper-resistant:

1. Receptacles located more than 5½ ft above the floor.
2. Receptacles that are part of a luminaire or appliance.
3. A receptacle located within dedicated space for an appliance that in normal use isn’t easily moved from one place to another.
4. Nongrounding receptacles used for replacements as permitted in 406.4(D)(2)(a)

.

 

[exranger06]

If you plug a well grounded human body into it.. how's your theory work?

AntonLargiader answered perfectly here:

They're the same up to 15A (when the 15A circuit would theoretically trip on short circuit). But I suspect that is WAY beyond the currents that we are talking about for typical electric shocks. EDIT: so in other words, they are the same.

It only takes a few MILLIamps to kill you. If you have 2 amps going through you, you're already a toasted marshmallow, let alone 15 amps or 50 amps. That's why we have GFCIs, and that's why they trip with only a 5 milliamp imbalance. Breakers are not there to protect you from getting killed, they're there to protect the wiring and prevent electrical fires.

 

[lakeroadster]

AntonLargiader answered perfectly here:


It only takes a few MILLIamps to kill you. If you have 2 amps going through you, you're already a toasted marshmallow, let alone 15 amps or 50 amps. That's why we have GFCIs, and that's why they trip with only a 5 milliamp imbalance. Breakers are not there to protect you from getting killed, they're there to protect the wiring and prevent electrical fires.

Understood. I feel like we are talking in circles....

You said the 220 Volt was no more dangerous than the 110 Volt.

240v outlets are not more dangerous than a 120v outlet. If you stick a paper clip into a slot on a 240v outlet, you'll get hit with 120v of electricity, because one slot is 120v with respect to ground. The only way you'd get hit with 240v is if you stuck paper clips into 2 slots at once with both hands.

You do realize there are no GFCI's on the 30, 40, 50 amp 220V breakers, per code, right?

So why the code requirement for TR 110V receptacles... and not the 220V in a garage / shop application?

 

[exranger06]

Yes I realize the 240v are not GFCI protected. I just meant that the 240v outlets aren't really any more dangerous than a 120v non-GFCI outlet. As for why the 240v outlets aren't required to have GFCI, I don't know.

 

[tfi racing]

I also feel they are nothing but a nuisance and will save few,if any lives in the next 100 years. However,if one in perfect health finds it is just too much of a struggle to plug something into a TR receptacle,please just sell everything you own and move into an assisted care facility so you can get the help you truly need...

 

[Falcon67]

So why the code requirement for TR 110V receptacles... and not the 220V in a garage / shop application?

Because they can sell a lot more higher profit 120V TR outlets than 240V?

 

[Stuart in MN]

So why the code requirement for TR 110V receptacles... and not the 220V in a garage / shop application?

People posting here may have open 240vac receptacles in their garages for welders or some other machinery, but that's pretty uncommon for a typical residential property (and that includes garages). They are normally always in use or not easily accessible, such as behind a stove or a clothes dryer.


It's kind of like garage pits...that topic comes up here often, and while there are specific regulations about their use in commercial buildings there's nothing in the NEC or any other NFPA code I can find that covers their use in a residential garage. It's just something they don't address since it's so uncommon.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I was never dumb enough to stick a pin in an outlet but I plug a few things in with my finger over both poles lol.

Still have to remind myself not to do that sometimes

 

[lakeroadster]

People posting here may have open 240vac receptacles in their garages for welders or some other machinery, but that's pretty uncommon for a typical residential property (and that includes garages). They are normally always in use or not easily accessible, such as behind a stove or a clothes dryer.


It's kind of like garage pits...that topic comes up here often, and while there are specific regulations about their use in commercial buildings there's nothing in the NEC or any other NFPA code I can find that covers their use in a residential garage. It's just something they don't address since it's so uncommon.

I guess I've lived an uncommon life.

It's nothing like a garage pit... 220 Volt outlets are indeed addressed.

If the TR is truly a safety requirement the NEC should require a tamper proof cover for the 220 Volt exposed outlets thus all outlets are TR..... or require them nowhere.

It's just plain stupid the way NEC addresses this now. They are consistent in their inconsistencies.

Here's my TR GFCI 20 amp 110 Volt duplex outlet and the wide open non GFCI 50 amp 220 Volt welder outlet... literal within inches of each other.

Other than saying a government regulation requires it, how can any sane person say this is logical?

 

[AntonLargiader]

Your example doesn't really mean anything, and your all-or-nothing mindset doesn't reflect the reality of how policy evolves. I know where your thinking comes from, but it's an overly simplistic approach.

Houses often have garages. If code is trying to keep kids away from unguarded and accessible receps, they're going to say something like "houses and garages" and if your shop falls under that they DON'T CARE. And if industry is making TR 120V receps now and won't have good 240V receps available for anther five years, they're going to require 120 now because they can.

It's really not hard to understand once you stop trying to write the regulations yourself.

 

[lakeroadster]

Your example doesn't really mean anything, and your all-or-nothing mindset doesn't reflect the reality of how policy evolves. I know where your thinking comes from, but it's an overly simplistic approach.

Houses often have garages. If code is trying to keep kids away from unguarded and accessible receps, they're going to say something like "houses and garages" and if your shop falls under that they DON'T CARE. And if industry is making TR 120V receps now and won't have good 240V receps available for anther five years, they're going to require 120 now because they can.

It's really not hard to understand once you stop trying to write the regulations yourself.

These folk that make policy and regulations, you realize they work for us, right?

And I also know that some don't care, but some do.

Some of us folks settle for mediocrity and government over reach.... others don't. Don't be a Kevin Bacon... stand for something.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Some of us folks settle for mediocrity and government over reach.... others don't. Don't be a Kevin Bacon... stand for something.

LOL! There's a windmill, grab your lance and go for it. TR is fine with me.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Here's my TR GFCI 20 amp 110 Volt duplex outlet and the wide open non GFCI 50 amp 220 Volt welder outlet... literal within inches of each other.

Like I said earlier, the vast majority of residential properties don't have open 240vac receptacles; they're going to be in use for a dryer or range, and located behind the appliance where they are not easily accessed. As such, the NEC just doesn't take them into account.

And as far as that goes, if a home shop or a garage are on a residential property they're considered part of the residence, and they aren't exempt from what the NEC says for a residence.

I refuse to get sucked into Internet arguments, so that's the last I'll say about this.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Thanks LakeRoadster for post # 26. I guess those receptacles are just one more unpleasant thing in life that I'll have to get used to, and put up with. It ***** to get old, but it beats the alternative.



.

 

[MikeF2316]

If you buy the cheapest outlets, the TR part needs to "break in" before they work acceptably. The more expensive ones work smoothly right out of the box. Since I'm only installing them 1-2 at a time, I have no problem with the few extra bucks.