zak77
Well-known member
I was in the Costco near me last weekend and they had a Lennox mini-split by the exit for sale. No mention of the Mr cool so i guess it's regional??
Costco - Mr Cool DYI
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The DIY units were typical units shipped to the USA and the line set was added in the USA -- they brazed them on. That's why I asked about how the line set is attached. I called and talked to the guy and he told me that they could only do so many with the people they had .... that was a couple years ago. There was also another company that was doing them back in 2014 with a different connector. Someone was also selling them attached -- small 9k 110v units. Had to go through a window
When I called 'mrcool' they said they brought 4000 of them in last year and sold out. I cannot imagine they are doing a modification and re-packing them, or in bulk and packing for resale. But you never know.
My take is the factory is building the assembly and packing, shipping. We have another seller out there with the same units, selling under a different tradename.
I'm sure if you can buy enough of them, or enough containers, you can have your name/brand on them.
When I called 'mrcool' they said they brought 4000 of them in last year and sold out. I cannot imagine they are doing a modification and re-packing them, or in bulk and packing for resale. But you never know.
My take is the factory is building the assembly and packing, shipping. We have another seller out there with the same units, selling under a different tradename.
I'm sure if you can buy enough of them, or enough containers, you can have your name/brand on them.
How is the line set attached ?
Lennox is sold through costco by their regional AC contractor. That's what got us started in this whole venture, having given up on having AC when our central system broke down 6 years ago.
We got a costco card again, finallly (not a big fan, for a lot of reasons) and thought we would get a quote from them for 'Lennox' air conditioning. They only offer a 'package' that was mid-fourteen thousands. Uh...no.
They were the second highest quote we got, the highest was from Home Depot's contractor selling Rheem - that guy was a total douche. $17K "This is the best deal you'll get. You better move now becuase the prices go up at the end of the month and we'll get so busy you won't be able to get on the schedule" How 'bout 'f*** you!'
Lennox mini's are one of the chinese brands, rebadged for them...Gree comes to mind but don't quote me. Carrier too.
Anyway, I see that the AC business has ratcheted themselves up to a sustainable price point where people are getting rich off it. Even the lowly field techs are making six figures. They really don't want to sell mini-splits, they talk you into a central air system for two to three times the cost. And use scare tactics to try to convince you. And the "Oh, women hate those sticking out from the wall." Really?
Even the contractors that would bid for a mini, wanted $4700 for a 2-ton Mitsubishi that I can buy on the open market for about $2500. But they void warranty if you install it yourself and the AC guys aren't interested in doing a vac-test-turn-up. Just not enough $$ there. I did manage to find two independents that would do this for me on any equipment, but I chose the DIY so I didn't have to bother with them. Even then the MrCool warranty is better. I'll use them if I have a problem, a breakdown, or leak, or something of that nature.
But I digress. The MrCool units are not in their stores, you would have to order them from their website and they would drop ship. I wouldn't be surprised if Ingrams was the shipper. Although MrCool.com claims they are the importer and they sell through various channels they've established, including Home Depot, Sylvane, Ingrams, and now evidently Costco.
yeldogt said:
I didn't look to see how they were attached. Everything is covered up with insulation so I didn't bother trying to tear into it.
The condenser end has o-rings instead of flair nuts, but you could remove those connectors and connect conventional flared lines.
Will S.
Well-known member
Anyone here know what the warranty is, and how warranty service problems are handled?
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Website says "7-Year Compressor Warranty & 5-Year Parts Warranty"
ishiboo
Well-known member
With the lower efficiency ratings and the fact you have to run the lineset/condensor, what is the big advantage of going with one of these versus a window/wall AC or two for far less? Seems a 24k window unit (or put it in a wall) runs around $600 and you can do it in even easier.
Not arguing, but I am about to have to cool a larger space and am curious. Conventional split seems to be the way to go yet.
Not arguing, but I am about to have to cool a larger space and am curious. Conventional split seems to be the way to go yet.
ishiboo
Well-known member
BTW... the Costco price seems pretty awesome on that.
I just took a look at a 24k window unit such as this one
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D3FOCT8/?tag=atomicindus08-20
has EER 10.8
and
a Pioneer 24k 16 SEER (probably identical to MrCool) has
EER of 9.5
so the window air conditioner will use less power running at full capacity anyway.
But the window unit is full on and full off and nothing in between.
OldracerJones
Well-known member
I'm trying to read up if a 36K would cool a 1,500 sq ft insulated metal building without costing a fortune. Anyone know the performance stats on this one as they pertain to cooling efficiency?
A mini split is way more quiet than a window air unit - the outside condenser of the mini is the same as the indoor window air unit.
The mini indoor air handler is so quiet you cannot hear it - like 29db on low. Amazing.
Otherwise a window unit is much cheaper and puts out the same btu's if you get one that big.
For us, in the main living area of our home, there is really no good place to even put a window unit, so you would have to build it into the wall, or it would be a horrible eyesore. The mini split is innocuous, and silent. There is really no comparison.
For a shop it might be a much tougher decision.
Ingrams and mrcool provide warranty coverage. They were quick to replace the valve cover that was damaged on the 'scratch and dent' unit I bought from them. I don't know how long it might take them to provide actual parts warranty coverage if you had a real failure.
If it fails and you can't troubleshoot it you're rather forced to hire a qualified AC contractor anyway. I figure I've saved enough overall that even if I had to do that, and then BUY the failed part, I'd still be way ahead. Hell, I could simply replace one of the two main components for cash outright and I would still be ahead.
I don't know the actual stats, nor for the bigger unit, but you should be able to find estimated annual operation costs. Those also assume a certain kwh rate and your locale may be different. All I know is they are super efficient - the 2 ton unit is 9ah when it's on full tilt. That's pretty cheap to run. The compressor moves up and down as needed, so most of the time it's just loafing along. AFAIK they don't use much power at all.
The mini indoor air handler is so quiet you cannot hear it - like 29db on low. Amazing.
Otherwise a window unit is much cheaper and puts out the same btu's if you get one that big.
For us, in the main living area of our home, there is really no good place to even put a window unit, so you would have to build it into the wall, or it would be a horrible eyesore. The mini split is innocuous, and silent. There is really no comparison.
For a shop it might be a much tougher decision.
Ingrams and mrcool provide warranty coverage. They were quick to replace the valve cover that was damaged on the 'scratch and dent' unit I bought from them. I don't know how long it might take them to provide actual parts warranty coverage if you had a real failure.
If it fails and you can't troubleshoot it you're rather forced to hire a qualified AC contractor anyway. I figure I've saved enough overall that even if I had to do that, and then BUY the failed part, I'd still be way ahead. Hell, I could simply replace one of the two main components for cash outright and I would still be ahead.
I don't know the actual stats, nor for the bigger unit, but you should be able to find estimated annual operation costs. Those also assume a certain kwh rate and your locale may be different. All I know is they are super efficient - the 2 ton unit is 9ah when it's on full tilt. That's pretty cheap to run. The compressor moves up and down as needed, so most of the time it's just loafing along. AFAIK they don't use much power at all.
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My building is spray foamed and my 24k is doing great here in Texas where its 100*F and 76*f in the building. My shop is 2000sqft
in real world operation even the less efficient inverter mini is going to be about 2x the window units operating efficiency. Quiet and the large evaporator is better at removing moisture.
IMO a properly designed ducted system is still the ideal ------- mini splits can get AC into a building w/o any ducts but with proper ducts I would not go mini.
I took the ducted system out of my cape (2nd floor) because the system was a disaster and the two ceiling units are great .. but had I had a way to fix the ducted I most likely would have.
Every AC contractor we spoke to and everything we could find said our 45yo asbestos insulated ducts were 30-40% efficiency loss. Plus we couldn't take advantage of any new efficiencies with more modern equipment. They wanted two to five thousand to replace them, however they still work just fine for the old gas furnace we use for about three months a year. It was all lose-lose to me. And only about half of them were accessible without tearing the whole house apart.
So rather than deal with any of that I decided to simply leave all that in place, remove the old AC condenser and lines and go with the newer tech splits. Very happy - and less than a third of the cost the cheapest quote we got for just new AC and furnace using those old inefficient ducts.
I tinted our west-facing Windows yesterday and that makes a huge difference in heat gain. Next weekend forecast is for temps over 100. We'll be sitting pretty.
So rather than deal with any of that I decided to simply leave all that in place, remove the old AC condenser and lines and go with the newer tech splits. Very happy - and less than a third of the cost the cheapest quote we got for just new AC and furnace using those old inefficient ducts.
I tinted our west-facing Windows yesterday and that makes a huge difference in heat gain. Next weekend forecast is for temps over 100. We'll be sitting pretty.
Every AC contractor we spoke to and everything we could find said our 45yo asbestos insulated ducts were 30-40% efficiency loss. Plus we couldn't take advantage of any new efficiencies with more modern equipment. They wanted two to five thousand to replace them, however they still work just fine for the old gas furnace we use for about three months a year. It was all lose-lose to me. And only about half of them were accessible without tearing the whole house apart.
So rather than deal with any of that I decided to simply leave all that in place, remove the old AC condenser and lines and go with the newer tech splits. Very happy - and less than a third of the cost the cheapest quote we got for just new AC and furnace using those old inefficient ducts.
I tinted our west-facing Windows yesterday and that makes a huge difference in heat gain. Next weekend forecast is for temps over 100. We'll be sitting pretty.
It's all a question of outcome .. I'm not sure what was wrong with the ducts that they were somehow an efficiency loss -- and where was the asbestos ? 40 years should have been something else.
This whole leaking duct thing is another myth -- they are only a huge problem if they leak to an unconditioned space ... most are easy to fix.
The interesting thing about the new VS equipment is they actually work great with undersized ducts as they zone so well.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
First, these are a heat pump. They will provide HEAT down to about 20F.
Second, decent mini-splits are far more efficient that your typical window A/C or PTAC or traditional heat pump.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
And this is REALLY where the big win is and why the SEER is so high !
This also !
Other have said it, for a building like a shop which is NOT occupied 24x7, especially if you already HAVE a heating solution, then a couple of "window shaker" is probably a good solution.
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sgf13
Well-known member
I am deep in the A/C buying mode right now. I only plan to run A/C when I am in the shop. It is metal with R9 insulation. The electrical work was just completed and my two windows have outlets wired for window A/C. Turns out the windows are too small for the size units I need. The building is roughly 3,000 cu. ft. When I learned about the Mr. Cool units I was really glad thinking I found an easy answer, until I saw the price. Even with the deals mentioned in this thread the window units are way cheaper, and no louder than a table saw or an impact gun. I think my outlook might be different if it was my home instead of a detached workshop but for me the cost is almost double.
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I'm sure I got sold a bill of goods. Er, well, some tried.
Like I say, our old gas furnace works just fine. We'll be gone in 3-5 anyway, the retirement plans.
And another reason for not wanting to spend $$$. When the money-faucet turns off we can't afford to stay here anyway, will never pay it off. It's so-cal - houses are inflated beyond belief. We'll take our equity and go live where it's much cheaper. LOL
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
You need about TRIPLE that in the ceiling ! With a metal building I hope you got spray foam because those things leak like sieve !
Cut another hole the correct size for the A/C unit you want. For a 3,000 sq ft building you would be better off with 2 unit at opposite ends of the building instead of just one. Or you are going to need some really good fans !
I'm sure I got sold a bill of goods. Er, well, some tried.
Like I say, our old gas furnace works just fine. We'll be gone in 3-5 anyway, the retirement plans.
And another reason for not wanting to spend $$$. When the money-faucet turns off we can't afford to stay here anyway, will never pay it off. It's so-cal - houses are inflated beyond belief. We'll take our equity and go live where it's much cheaper. LOL
Was not trying to be preachy ...
I have used mini splits with great success -- they are real problem solvers.
I was very sceptical about mini splits till I talk with you and others, still it took actually putting one in to truly convert me.
They can solve big issues in places that forced air isn't a option but you need to have reasonable expectations as they have their limitations. My unit can cool my house as it was specced for it's size but in the heat this weekend it got a work out and forced air would have been a lot better.
Unless you are putting AC into your house or have a bigger budget I would recommend window shakers due to costing so much less and not being a constant need in a shop/garage.
raco232
Well-known member
A typical dwelling is always going to need something -- and moving the air around is necessary for the unit to have an accurate temp.
Fixin'Stuff
Well-known member
That's one of their best features. I have found my outdoor unit completely off when the outdoor temp is cool enough. But having the indoor fan always running on low keeps the space more evenly comfortable. My 1.5-ton Mr. Cool is drawing around 25 watts in that mode. My garage is now more comfortable than my house, even though I keep the set point in the garage higher.
sgf13
Well-known member
It is not spray in foam, another concession to budget. There is a window on each side and my goal from the start, as you recommended, was to put a unit on each side, if I went with window A/C. The plan right now is to remove the windows and work with that framing for the window units. This is the option I am leaning towards https://www.lowes.com/pd/LG-1560-sq...ner-230-Volt-24500-BTU-ENERGY-STAR/1000212583
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If you're not a member you can get one from Ingrams for the same price. Just call Kelly Helton, she'll fix you up.
They're in Kentucky. They get busy. I doubt their office staff is very big. I would call mid-morning. I did everything with them via email, painless.
Kelly will respond - sometimes it takes a day or two.
It's been warm here in so-Cal - these units have been on 24/7 for the past week-plus. Keeps our home way comfy. I love these things!
I set them on cool mode, auto fan speed, adjust the temp up and down for day and night time temps - they operate silently. 76-78 when we're out, 74-75 during the day, sometimes 72 late in the afternoon when it's really hot, then back to 73-75 or they freeze you out. Overnight when they catch up the outside condenser shuts down and they go into silent/sleep mode. 74 seems to be a good night time temp for us, 76 on the main unit.
The smart phone app is fantastic. Both show up on my list - just choose which one you want to view or adjust.
It was finally 83 this afternoon - it's been mid-90's to over a hundred for a week. Last Friday broke all records - 116. We were cool as a cucumber. LOL. You step outside and it feels like a blast furnace!
Kelly will respond - sometimes it takes a day or two.
It's been warm here in so-Cal - these units have been on 24/7 for the past week-plus. Keeps our home way comfy. I love these things!
I set them on cool mode, auto fan speed, adjust the temp up and down for day and night time temps - they operate silently. 76-78 when we're out, 74-75 during the day, sometimes 72 late in the afternoon when it's really hot, then back to 73-75 or they freeze you out. Overnight when they catch up the outside condenser shuts down and they go into silent/sleep mode. 74 seems to be a good night time temp for us, 76 on the main unit.
The smart phone app is fantastic. Both show up on my list - just choose which one you want to view or adjust.
It was finally 83 this afternoon - it's been mid-90's to over a hundred for a week. Last Friday broke all records - 116. We were cool as a cucumber. LOL. You step outside and it feels like a blast furnace!
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Which unit, which price? Don't forget Costco added shipping charges - Ingrms includes them, so you have to take that into account.
My 24K unit was $1563 from them, shipping included. I don't recall what the costco price was with shipping.
How much difference are you talking? What are they quoting you for a out the door price on which unit?
My 24K unit was $1563 from them, shipping included. I don't recall what the costco price was with shipping.
How much difference are you talking? What are they quoting you for a out the door price on which unit?
For the 24k, Costco price is $1,300 plus $100 for shipping
It's $60 to join Costco for a year. Even if you do not have a warehouse close buys, they often have great deals (like the Mr Cool) on their website. Even if Ingrams price matched Costco, they are never going to match the level of customer service you get from Costco
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n2jeepn
Active member
I purchased an 18k unit from Costco, and finished the install (except for line set cover) a couple days ago. I'm very happy with the performance of the unit. It is amazing to walk out to my garage and have it be comfortable inside to work, with 95 degree heat outside.
It is unbelievable how quiet it is. I should have done this years ago.
It is unbelievable how quiet it is. I should have done this years ago.
sleek98
Well-known member
Think I am going to trash my electric heaters and go with this, plus side is I get AC, and it will be basically free with the solar panels in the winter.
What height is the best to mount the head unit? It says 7.5' min but would it be better higher? I have 12' walls So by their measurements I can mount them from 7.5' to 10.5'.
I could also mount them higher as the center of my building is 16' tall using coffer trusses. Wondering if it would be ok to mount them at the 12' mark there or if that is too high?
What size if your garage?
What height is the best to mount the head unit? It says 7.5' min but would it be better higher? I have 12' walls So by their measurements I can mount them from 7.5' to 10.5'.
I could also mount them higher as the center of my building is 16' tall using coffer trusses. Wondering if it would be ok to mount them at the 12' mark there or if that is too high?
What size if your garage?