Sharkbiteattack
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What do you trust more?
Made in USA vs Made in Germany
- Thread starter Sharkbiteattack
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ARFLY
Well-known member
There are good tools made in both countries. I live in the USA so most of my tools are USA. If I lived in Germany I would probably have mostly German made tools.
These days I place no extra trust in country of origin alone. Trust to me meaning won't hurt me, damage my workpiece, lead to an expensive error, fail on me when I need it to work, etc.
A lot of the less expensive American tools are just churned out to meet government 'buy American' contracts.
A lot of the less expensive German tools are hastily finished with generally antiquated designs.
A lot of the less expensive American tools are just churned out to meet government 'buy American' contracts.
A lot of the less expensive German tools are hastily finished with generally antiquated designs.
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Negen
Well-known member
This question makes little to no sense. Why would a country gain trust based on manufacturing items in one location or the other. I think any country in the world has the ability to make **** or great stuff. A good example is USA made 6.2/6.5 vs Brazilian made 6.2/6.5 diesels the I would take the Brazilian made over USA made. Brands make products as good as they need to quality will very based on needs of the company not country of origin.
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Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
What? tools? Cars?
If we're talking tools, neither. I judge a tools on how it performs and not so much where it was made.
If we're talking tools, neither. I judge a tools on how it performs and not so much where it was made.
I use my tools, to build/fix things and take things apart and put them together again.
That said I've never had a need, to loan any of them money and I supposed if I told them my deepest, darkest secrets, They'd never make it out of the toolbox.
Personally, I don't care if it's made in Uncle Nguyen's garage, either it gets the job done - or it doesn't.
That said I've never had a need, to loan any of them money and I supposed if I told them my deepest, darkest secrets, They'd never make it out of the toolbox.
Personally, I don't care if it's made in Uncle Nguyen's garage, either it gets the job done - or it doesn't.
woody 73
Well-known member
OP we have a German tool Expert on the GJ be sure and look over his post:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394063&highlight=german+tools
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394063&highlight=german+tools
KnurledNut
Well-known member
I think the OP is referring to trust of the claim of COO.
If so, the Made in USA label carries more weight.
The FTC says, ""All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content."
The Germany claim allows for more foreign content, and is not as strict.
If so, the Made in USA label carries more weight.
The FTC says, ""All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content."
The Germany claim allows for more foreign content, and is not as strict.
Like others have said, most of my tools are made in USA, (mostly Snap-on, SK, USA Craftsman) but I have decent number of Made in Germany tools as well (Hazet, Knipex, Wiha and others). Most of the factory/special tools I own for European cars are German. I've found both to be of very high quality and enjoy using them both. For wrenches and sockets, I would say they're more or less equivalent.
German tools tend to have a matte finish instead of the high polish chrome, but to me that's a matter of personal preference. With regard to ratchets, I prefer my Snap-on Dual 80s, but I haven't used any of the newer German high-tooth ratchets, either. I do have a set of Hazet impact wheel lug sockets (903SLG) with protective sleeves to keep from scratching wheels that I really like. At least one other guy at the shop bought some after seeing mine. I've also been very pleased with Knipex pliers.
The biggest negative about German tools is they're often hard to find here, and when you do, they can be very expensive. I've found that importing them in small batches direct from Germany can be the most cost efficient way to purchase, and in some cases I've been able to buy tools this way at a fraction of the cost of Snap-on, without resorting to Asian imported tools (some of which I will admit work just fine). I'm sure somebody will also bring up that it's harder to warranty German tools here if need be, but I haven't really run into that yet.
In the end I don't think you can go wrong either way. Buy what you like, considering availability, price and warranty service.
German tools tend to have a matte finish instead of the high polish chrome, but to me that's a matter of personal preference. With regard to ratchets, I prefer my Snap-on Dual 80s, but I haven't used any of the newer German high-tooth ratchets, either. I do have a set of Hazet impact wheel lug sockets (903SLG) with protective sleeves to keep from scratching wheels that I really like. At least one other guy at the shop bought some after seeing mine. I've also been very pleased with Knipex pliers.
The biggest negative about German tools is they're often hard to find here, and when you do, they can be very expensive. I've found that importing them in small batches direct from Germany can be the most cost efficient way to purchase, and in some cases I've been able to buy tools this way at a fraction of the cost of Snap-on, without resorting to Asian imported tools (some of which I will admit work just fine). I'm sure somebody will also bring up that it's harder to warranty German tools here if need be, but I haven't really run into that yet.
In the end I don't think you can go wrong either way. Buy what you like, considering availability, price and warranty service.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
If it's German made Knipex versus USA made Craftsman, K-D, Danaher, or Cal-Van tools, I'll trust the Knipex more.
anndel
Well-known member
I have some Knipex and Wera tools and they are excellent. Same here, I'm born and raised in the US so I buy mostly Snap-on, SK, Channellock, Klein, old US-Made Craftsman.
finn
Well-known member
Countries don’t make tools.
The question makes no sense.
The question makes no sense.
turnthewrench 2.0
Well-known member
The "in" ain't no "by".
Exactly. I just threw away a Made in USA sprayer bottle that was an absolute POS. I look at brands more than COO to judge quality but often good brands sell a dud and crappy brands have a gem. Extensive product research helps weed out the trash but no matter how hard you work at it some junk will still slip through and something you bought on a Sunday afternoon at ChinaWorld™ because you had no other option will turn out to work well and last 10 years.
Professional Tool User
Well-known member
If all else is equal, Made in Germany. The tool industry in the US is so badly mismanaged to the point it's not even funny. When you have 3 big considated tool companies - Snap on, Stanley, and Apex controlling the bulk of the brands, if even one of them is mismanaged, the ripple effect will be felt in a lot of the brands they sell under. And we have both Stanley and Apex under very poor management currently. Mac, Husky, Blackhawk, and other Stanley brands have been so watered down to the point they are a joke. Apex has let Gearwrench cannibalize KD and Armstrong sales to the point the latter two were discontinued. On the other hand, many Germany tool manufacturer's are multi generation family owned businesses. Brands like Knipex, Stahlwille, and Hazet are examples. If an industry isn't consolidated and one company goes out of business, it's not a big deal. Consolidation often doesn't add value for the consumer and makes the industry more vulnerable if something goes wrong.
The Germans were the first to use chrome vanadium in tool production. Belzer was the company that did this in I think around the 1930's. Today virtually all hand tools are made this way for good reason. So I suppose we have something to thank them for. Sadly Belzer is a division of Bahco now and not owned by the Belzer family anymore. They made some of my favourite hand tools that I'd put up against any brand alive today.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
I like the German's way of thinking:
"We are going to make a high quality tool. If you don't like the price, tough."
"We are going to make a high quality tool. If you don't like the price, tough."
turnthewrench 2.0
Well-known member
I like the American way of thinking: "I am not buying that $hit!."
PelicanPines
ALLIANCE MEMBER
My wife is German... so I pick Made in Germany. But Made in USA is ok too... strange question I guess. Some of my China stuff is great... I have USA stuff that is garbage too. So it depends. Germany makes nice strong women tho.
German tools on the German market are often less expensive in nominal terms than American tools on the American market. I bought a lot of Hazet as a lower cost alternative to Proto and Williams.
PhysicsDude
Well-known member
I think you can get more bang with your buck with German tools over high end American tools. I've started replacing my Klein and Greenlee tools with Wera, Wiha, Knipex, and the like. The German tools are about the same price, sometimes a little cheaper, and probably just a tad higher quality. German tools are quite a bit cheaper than other "premium" brand names such as Snapon, MAC, Proto, etc.
The distribution and warranty is what you have to sacrifice, though.
The distribution and warranty is what you have to sacrifice, though.
Yep. And I know it's off topic but everything you said is why I went to Japan made tools too...
Negen
Well-known member
I don't know about Kline tools costing more than German tools and I have never seen american made green lee. But wera sockets I have are not made in Germany and cost quite a bit more than wright or proto and quality is probably a bit lower only due to the fact they are laser etched. Time will tell how long the laser etching holds but usually I see laser etching fail at some point. Wera is nice stuff though but I prefer proto or wright or koken over wera. I have one whia hex driver 368 4sw that is made in Germany that is equal to any american hex driver I have seen. And I had a metric wrench set sold by wiha that was made in India by garner bender or something worst things I have ever seen I gave them away for free. 90% of the knipex I seen is too quality and it seems everyone is trying to copy them. USA hasn't seem to have caught up. Japan still offers the best bang for the buck for sockets (koken) pliers(kieba) and adjustable (lobsters) USA bang for buck seems to be proto,black hawk, sk ,wright,Wilde, imperial.
I don't see how anyone can get caught up on single origin of tools (this isn't coffee or whiskey ). We have global shipping and global retailers. Most ship to USA from anywhere in Europe within a week. Russia and Netherlands seem to take the longest. Took almost a month for my facom drivers. I do wish wright would step up their retail supply chains.
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I don't see how anyone can get caught up on single origin of tools (this isn't coffee or whiskey ). We have global shipping and global retailers. Most ship to USA from anywhere in Europe within a week. Russia and Netherlands seem to take the longest. Took almost a month for my facom drivers. I do wish wright would step up their retail supply chains.
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Wamsutta
Well-known member
Lowes had Knipex for awhile. They had a lot of Knipex coming in the store and going out the door but they never sold any of it.
Negen
Well-known member
What do you mean theft? I don't have a Lowe's near me.
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Wamsutta
Well-known member
That's exactly what I mean. The electrical department employee said people look at the price and figure it must be good enough to steal.
rossomania
Well-known member
My wife has pretty much appropriated my Wera "strike through" screwdrivers (yellow and black handles) for her projects. She's the wicked smart engineer in the family. Easily one of the best general use screwdriver designs either of us have ever used. Before this, made in Germany (okay, designed in Germany) tools wasn't even a topic of discussion. Then I discovered Garage Journal...
If companies in the US thought that way and consumers actually bought it, China wouldn't be dominating our economy the way it currently does.
People ***** and complain about price and could care less about COO.
Great story from my boss who's dad worked at Presto back when they manufactured in the USA. He met with a few higher ups at Wal-Mart not long after Sam passed away (if you remember, Sam Walton marketed heavily towards made in the USA products). He was bragging about how Presto was still american made, and one of the VP's interrupted him and said, after 9/11 our best selling item is an American flag made in China. NO ONE CARES!
openwheelracing88
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Germany over USA tools any day. Our workers are lazy, inefficient, and entitled. The only way to support USA is to not enable. The buy USA mentality is the main reason our auto industry can't compete.
openwheelracing88
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If companies in the US thought that way and consumers actually bought it, China wouldn't be dominating our economy the way it currently does.
People ***** and complain about price and could care less about COO.
Great story from my boss who's dad worked at Presto back when they manufactured in the USA. He met with a few higher ups at Wal-Mart not long after Sam passed away (if you remember, Sam Walton marketed heavily towards made in the USA products). He was bragging about how Presto was still american made, and one of the VP's interrupted him and said, after 9/11 our best selling item is an American flag made in China. NO ONE CARES!
That's because China, is capable of producing better product per dollar. Tariff or not. It has nothing to do with people "not care". We can @%t@h and moan all day about how cheap Chinese products are like a bunch of snowflakes, or we can take responsibility and produce.
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rossomania
Well-known member
Amazon's been my "go to" vendor, but I've been looking for alternative online sellers for my German tool purchases. I liked the KC Tools web site and extensive selection, but my order from them took *forever* to arrive. We're talking weeks and weeks for items that were supposedly in stock. Any suggestions?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. How is China dominating our economy?
Negen
Well-known member
Well in Washington state you have to drive out of the way or shop online to find american made products. Ever so often you can find something somewhere that is american made. Our apples are still made here but most other fruit and vegetables are imports. Even the locally sold american flags are made in China. So for someone to think that China does not dominate the global markets is odd to me. I suspect that if it was easy to find quality stuff auteauje gj wouldn't be around. Customer service is out sourced mainly to India or Phils. Even the local quilt sales are dying because the 78 year old ladies making them do not understand the tax the are being told to pay to sell a quilt at a street fair.
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This thread was derailed way back!!! I'm still waiting for some objective facts to back up all the statements.
rossomania
Well-known member
Speaking of (de)rails, has anyone tried the Gedore socket rails? I doubt they're actually made in Europe but they sound like they ought to do the job. My current Craftsman socket rails have funky handles and don't fit in my toolbox like I need them too.