Warning to wood workers

[ARFLY]

We all know how dangerous table saws can be. I think anyone who has ever used a table saw knows the dangers of kick backs. There is safety equipment on a table saw to help prevent the possibility of a kick back. The saw I was using today has a riving knife, guard and catches all in one unit. I had removed this assembly to make a narrow cut on a thin piece of wood that could not be cut with the safety equipment in place. That cut went fine. I went on to the next thing and didn't put the safety equipment back on the saw, thinking I will just do it later when I use the saw the next time. Later today I had to make one cut on a piece of ply wood. I didn't think it would be a problem and didn't want to waste time putting the guards back on the saw which would have taken all of 45 seconds.

This is what happened.
View media item 85036Fortunately I still have all my fingers and wasn't seriously hurt. I do have a nasty bruise on my stomach where the 22"x17" piece of ply wood hit me. I am posting this as a reminder for everyone to please be careful. Don't get careless like I did today. It only takes a little extra time to do it right and be safe.

 

[The Cobbler]

OUCH- been there , done that. thanks for the reminder

 

[WWheeler]

I highly suggest you consider getting some Board Buddies. Been using them for more than 25 years on my table saws and router tables. I LOVE them.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&tbs=imgo:1&q=board+buddies

They attach to the top of your fence - best to attach them to a track so they can be easily positioned and removed if needed- and they are awesome at keeping boards tight to the fence and tight to the table both before and after the blade (something you can't do with a featherboard). Yellow ones (for table saws) only roll clockwise, thus preventing kickback. They make using a table saw so much easier and safer.

 

[PelicanPines]

I kiss my riving knife every time I install it.

 

[bob15]

This was done back in February with 3 layers of shirts on.

The picture with the tape on it was taken the following day. I still have a bruise, about 3" below the rib cage, on the side of my stomach.

Not sure why the tape measure picture rotated 90°

 

[bob15]

Forgot to add, it was a long, 1" thick rough-cut pine board I was ripping with help. We both thought each other had the board (BIG MISTAKE).

 

[metaldad]

glad both you guys didn't get hurt.
i imagine i should get around to improving safety on my 10'' table.
acquired used, without guards, 25 years ago.

 

[fowldarr]

I did this a few months ago, but took the panel I was cutting to the hip. I'd been cutting stuff all day, at the end of a long week, and it got away from me.

Also, recently had an employee put their thumb into their table saw at home. Luckily she kept her thumb, and might be able to return to work in another month.

 

[M_George]

glad both you guys didn't get hurt.
i imagine i should get around to improving safety on my 10'' table.
acquired used, without guards, 25 years ago.

I've doing the same for even longer. I do use feather boards though for awkward cuts.

 

[DieselNut88]

I dont use any guards and am aware of how unsafe it is, but i use feather boards and push sticks. Unfortunally featherboards may not be possible with wide pieces. I have had a 1x2 piece kick back and hit me in the stomach before, that left a mark for a couple days. Stay safe.

 

[JohnKal]

I highly suggest you consider getting some Board Buddies. Been using them for more than 25 years on my table saws and router tables. I LOVE them.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&tbs=imgo:1&q=board+buddies

Never heard of these, but then again I only use my table saw a dozen times a year.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[ARFLY]

Bob, that's about what my stomach looks like tonight. I am thankful it's not worse. Wheeler thanks for the info on the board buddies. I will probably order some in the next week or so. Diesel nut feather boards are good also. Did you make yours or buy them?

 

[turbowoodworker]

Kickback occurs when the fence side fragment comes away from the fence and is drawn up by the backside of the spinning blade. Feather boards cannot prevent this but a splitter or a riving knife, anti kickback pawls and a properly adjusted fence can.

Glad no one was seriously injured.

 

[Musicinabottle]

glad both you guys didn't get hurt.
i imagine i should get around to improving safety on my 10'' table.
acquired used, without guards, 25 years ago.

That's me too but 30 plus years ago with me, and a carpenter using it all the time. Never even thought about the fact that there are no guards on any of my saws, Skilsaws included.

 

[doublearon98]

Blade barely through the material greatly reduces risk of kickback plus not going to fast

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[zkling]

Glad you are OK, but I think the issue was more with your setup. Many a pro wood workers run just a bare blade and maybe a riving kinfe.

 

[shoot summ]

I had a piece of 1/4" ply do the same thing to me many years ago. It hurt, really bad, had to go sit down. Fortunately I was just bruised.

 

[Musicinabottle]

Glad you are OK, but I think the issue was more with your setup. Many a pro wood workers run just a bare blade and maybe a riving kinfe.

Indeed. Every construction site I've ever worked on just had the blade exposed and nothing else. I suppose I'm accustomed to it so I never gave it any thought. Always thought that table saw that explodes the saw hitting brakes when you touch the blade with a hot dog was always kind of........ overkill? I suppose not everyone is comfortable using a table saw, so the safety is a good thing in those situations.

 

[woody 73]

Been there done that also, second time in 40 plus years. First time was in High school shop class and second time was one cold winter night a few years back; Now a guard all the time.

 

[Boilerhouse]

We all know how dangerous table saws can be. I think anyone who has ever used a table saw knows the dangers of kick backs. There is safety equipment on a table saw to help prevent the possibility of a kick back. The saw I was using today has a riving knife, guard and catches all in one unit. I had removed this assembly to make a narrow cut on a thin piece of wood that could not be cut with the safety equipment in place. That cut went fine. I went on to the next thing and didn't put the safety equipment back on the saw, thinking I will just do it later when I use the saw the next time. Later today I had to make one cut on a piece of ply wood. I didn't think it would be a problem and didn't want to waste time putting the guards back on the saw which would have taken all of 45 seconds.


Fortunately I still have all my fingers and wasn't seriously hurt. I do have a nasty bruise on my stomach where the 22"x17" piece of ply wood hit me. I am posting this as a reminder for everyone to please be careful. Don't get careless like I did today. It only takes a little extra time to do it right and be safe.

I did a bearing change on my table saw that threw off the blade positioning then bought a different blade with a smaller kerf so the anti kick back set up I had with my saw needed some modifications. I ran without it for several years and only recently got it modified and replaced. I never had an incident, the closest call I had was when I forgot to lock the fence down and started to push stock through, but still caught it in time. One thing I ALWAYS do, is stand off to the left and out of the line of fire.
So I am curious what caused this kickback. They don't seem to just happen, guard or no guard, something must have been "not quite right" to cause this to happen.

 

[Cooter Brown]

ARFLY, can you describe what happened?

A couple of thoughts informed by many hours on table saws. I've made mistakes and fortunately never paid too high a price for the lesson. And I've seen people do stuff that would curl you're hair and let more than one person go because of it.

If the way you're going about doing something, i.e. your setup, doesn't feel right, STOP, reassess, figure out a better way to do it.

Be extremely careful with thin plywood--1/4" ply flexes a lot which can cause a bind and a kick back with amazing speed.

Never crosscut something against the fence that is longer than it is wide. In other words the distance from the fence to the blade should be less than the length of the material that will ride against the fence. Even cutting a square is far more risky that ripping something long and narrow.

Don't fear the machine--fear will make you tentative. Respect and understand the machine and learn what can get you in trouble.

But most important go back to number one--when in doubt, stop and think if there's a better way to do it.

 

[Git]

By the looks of the curved cut in that piece of ply, I would guess that was the offcut (or it wasn't being held down) and it got up on top of the blade which dug into it and threw it back

 

[Wamsutta]

Bruise on your stomach? You must be fairly short. I used to get bruises on my pelvic area back in the day when I worked at a cabinet shop.

 

[snickers muncher]

This was done by a piece of spruce about 1x1x3 and weighting nothing. It bounced off my thumb and took a good chunk of skin off before hitting me between the chest and arm. The piece of wood continued onward, hit the base of the window screen,split a wedge off between the screen and sill, and the rest was never found. I was lucky. I then bought a tablesaw that the riving knife stays put if you take the guard off.

 

[Git]

I have this thread bookmarked from Lumberjocks - a kickback hit him in the face

...broken nose (32 stitches), “slight” concussion and fluid on the brain as well as several facial fractures, 4 loose teeth and a broken jaw. Spent the next 3 days in the ICU with tubes and hoses coming out of all
parts of my body

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/252553

One of the reasons why I have a sliding table saw, you usually stand off to the side of the blade. Also, it has the European style fence that adjusts front to back so you can avoid trapping a piece in between the blade and the fence

 

[ARFLY]

Snickers, I bet that hurt for awhile. What happened on mine was that I was ripping a piece of 24" ply down to 22". The ply was 1/2". I guess it flexed. I saw it moving away from the fence towards the end of the cut and tried to correct it. That is when I got the kickback. I should have stopped and shut the saw down. I had the blade set just high enough to clear the ply. That probably allowed the material to get up over the blade. When I was in high school, I had a couple that shot a thin piece out. That was an old Unisaw and I don't remember it having a riving knife on it. Definitely no guard. We would actually do that on purpose when the shop teacher wasn't near by (dumb kids). This is the first time I have had a piece of material go over the top of the blade. I definitely made sure this didn't happen again today.

 

[ARFLY]

Git, Thanks for sharing that. That is bad.

 

[tarmy]

Older I get...somehow the slower I go...and more safety items and thought I apply. Before every cut on my tablesaw...I look at a dent in the wall about 8 feet up. I was cutting off an end from a piece of poplar...about four inches square. The blade caught it and kickied right at my face. It literally grazed my left ear and embedded in the wall behind me.

After I stopped shaking...I took it out of the drywall and have it on my workbench to remind me of safety. The dent stays some twenty years later...and I always glance at it when I go to use the saw. Got very lucky...won’t make that mistake again.

 

[ez-duzit]

If at first you don't succeed perhaps skydiving isn't for you.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

You fellows have got me thinking. I have not used my anti kick back pawls for so long I don’t know where I put them. Like many on here I go bare blade and maybe I’m very lucky. My Craftsman saw fence is pretty crappy so I line it up with a square and open the far end of the fence a tad.
But since my daughter will be using my shop for her reno projects maybe it’s time to look for those pawls.

 

[jonshonda]

I make every effort I can to ensure I am being safe when using a table saw. I have the blade square to within a red c3nt hair of the miter slot, and use a biesemeyer fence system that has been squared up to the miter slot within that same tolerance as the blade.

I need to get some of those board buddies mentioned, and also a good pusher setup from microjig. I riving knife is really only for when you aren't using good technique feeding stock through the saw...but I guess it can help.

 

[850xpeps]

Removed my table saw gaurd the day I got it. If your going to be ripping a piece like that you should not be using the fence. You should mark your 22” and use the angle guide in the slide set at 90. This way there is no fence to bind against. The issue is improper use of the tool imo. We are all guilty of it. You. None of the job site saws that I encountered had the guards on them either. They can be a danger in their own right. Also the panel saws at school never had if I remember correctly.

 

[turbowoodworker]

This just might be some of the worst advice ever posted here.

 

[jonshonda]

This just might be some of the worst advice ever posted here.

Please elaborate.

 

[Voi]

What happened on mine was that I was ripping a piece of 24" ply down to 22".

The picture in the first post gives the impression the piece was maybe 16" x 24". Were you cutting the plywood down with the shorter side against the fence?

Edit: Sorry, first post says 17 x 24. So the 17" side was against the fence?

 

[crucible]

Two years ago now I was using my table saw to cut dado's in 4" oak stock for the outer frame of a cabinet door.

I was going pretty slow, double checked what I was doing and successfully got to the last piece of the first door by guiding the piece with both hands against the adjustable factory guide, leaving only a small window where one hand would be near the blade (several inches worth of wood between my hand and the blade). Something happened on that last piece which was grabbed the the blade and was immediately launched from my grasp, leaving nothing between my middle finger and the blade which connected ever so briefly.

I knew instantly it wasn't going to be a bandaid injury, and wrapped it and went to the ER. Xrays confirmed the blade went about a half inch straight into the last digit of my finger vertically, nicking the bone in the process (the ER staff were fascinated!)

I finished that project with a wrapped finger, and developed a simple and safe jig to guide the remaining pieces over the blade....which I should have thought of prior, but just didn't due to my inexperience.

I was lucky though-it healed eventually, leaving a scar and a curious blend of uber sensitivity and numbness...the nail even healed.

 

[crucible]

A couple of thoughts informed by many hours on table saws. I've made mistakes and fortunately never paid too high a price for the lesson. And I've seen people do stuff that would curl you're hair and let more than one person go because of it.

If the way you're going about doing something, i.e. your setup, doesn't feel right, STOP, reassess, figure out a better way to do it.

Be extremely careful with thin plywood--1/4" ply flexes a lot which can cause a bind and a kick back with amazing speed.

Never crosscut something against the fence that is longer than it is wide. In other words the distance from the fence to the blade should be less than the length of the material that will ride against the fence. Even cutting a square is far more risky that ripping something long and narrow.

Don't fear the machine--fear will make you tentative. Respect and understand the machine and learn what can get you in trouble.

But most important go back to number one--when in doubt, stop and think if there's a better way to do it.

Great advice!

 

[Cooter Brown]

Edit: Sorry, first post says 17 x 24. So the 17" side was against the fence?

If the short 17" side was against the fence the kickback is explained. This is the third point I made in my first post, and kinda what I suspected. It's a very dangerous way to use a table saw.

ARFLY, if this is the case, you learned a lesson, and your posting about it here might prevent somebody else from learning it the hard way and paying a higher price than you did!

Consider making a crosscut sled for cuts like this.

 

[WWheeler]

Watch and learn from a pro :

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PXuIZ-KVTDY?start=143" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Vid is from dwasifar's "Watch this saw review and cringe" thread.

 

[bullnerd]

"fence system that has been squared up to the miter slot within that same tolerance as the blade"

I try not to comment on every kickback thread we have.

But this is probably 75% of the problem with kickback accidents. (the other 50% is operators truly are not focused on what they are doing.)

The fence should NOT be parallel to the blade. Fence should be farther at the rear of the blade than the front, just slightly.