The VISES of Garage Journal

[va.grouseman]

Previously posted by trijeff.

has the vise bubble finally burst?
--------------------------------------


Not according to eBay prices.---But of course, that don't mean they always get those prices.---But a lot of times they do.---That's why I can rarely snag anything off eBay anymore.


Joe will probably thin the herd, be satisfied for a while, then look at those empty shelves, have himself a good cry, go shopping, and fill'em up again.

 

[gman007]

Joe selling his vises, just a handful of posts in as many days ... has the vise bubble finally burst? I blame global warming and PG&E

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I can only speculate on the handful of posts comment, it could be due to members summer activities such as vacation etc. And hopefully the vise popularity (darn it, this is not a bubble ) is still well and alive (otherwise whole bunch of us are screwed )

Ps
Honestly if I lived within reasonable driving distance (couple hundred miles) of Joe, I would love to get my hands on a few of those good looking vises

 

[BeardedOne]

Free is good, Justin.

What are your plans for it now?

 

[va.grouseman]

Gman, when the bottom of the real-estate market dropped out, hundreds of thousands lost their life savings and a lot were left holding a set of keys to a house they no longer owned.---If the bottom drops out of the vise market, we've still got the best tool in the shop, IMO, and several of them.---I could live with that.

Do you remember what jingle mail was?---Well there will be no jingle vises I'll bet'ya.

 

[gman007]

Gman, when the bottom of the real-estate market dropped out, hundreds of thousands lost their life savings and a lot were left holding a set of keys to a house they no longer owned.---If the bottom drops out of the vise market, we've still got the best tool in the shop, IMO, and several of them.---I could live with that.

Do you remember what jingle mail was?---Well there will be no jingle vises I'll bet'ya.

VA
I agree 100% and what I said was obviously in jest.

I have a very modest collection of US made tools including vises. I collect these tools regardless of their potential appreciation or monitory return because I enjoy restoring and using them and I have no intention of selling anything.

For example I have several Taintor and Morrills saw setters which I use to set a number of my old hand saws (Dustin, Atkins, warranted Superior, etc). The saw sets are worth probably $10-$15 but I have gotten 100s if not 1000s of dollars worth of pleasure out of using and having them.

So really for me it is not about their monitory value and at that unlike many other collectibles these tools do not cost much in the first place anyway!

So for those reasons if the values of any of these tools go up or down it does not concern me or affect my attitude the slightest.

 

[autopts]

Does this price seems reasonable for a Bullet vise?
Marketplace› Tools
Wilton Bullet Vise - USA
Villa Park, IL · 16 hours ago ·
$220
400N machinist vise, 4" jaw width, used but in working condition, see pictures.

That vise is in excellent condition and a great price. I look at it all the time.

 

[justin.d.richards.9]

Free is good, Justin.

What are your plans for it now?

I've got one other one I told my step father I'd tear apart and look at for him. It's just a cheap 5" Olympia vise but it's all there and I offered to clean it up for him. The other vise pieces in the pictures are of that.. After I do that I'm going to tear into this and see what all needs repaired or replaced on it.. The guy it came from had it bolted to the same bench for 20 years. His brother recently passed and he had a Wilton(I didn't look what model) what appeared to be a 5" that he acquired from that. So he called and asked if I wanted it I just had to take it off the bench and put the other one on for him.


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[PeteA]

Does anyone know where I can get a pair 6'' T-Style vise jaw inserts for a Reed No.106 Vise. Thanks

 

[va.grouseman]

Gman, I knew you were just joshing about a vise bubble.---Me too.

I like to keep things on the lighter side of serious.---There's enough serious and crazy in the world without me adding to it.

I like to be around people that have 2 serious bones in their body and 204 humorous ones.---268 when they were born, so even they are not as funny as they use to be.

 

[honza.vosalik]

Looking at a Craftsman 5162 - are these jaws so used or were they like that always?

 

[pikapp]

Had to post my Columbian D45-M4. I've been spending so much time on the Wiltons and started feeling bad about the Columbian, sadly looking at me on the bench. This is a judgement free zone isn't it? (yea, no it not) We have had it over 40 years. Dad bought the steel bench from a Buick dealer that was sold and moving around 1975 and the Columbian came with it. It was used pretty good then. Do they date code Columbians? Guess I'll find out. It's next and it sure deserves it. What have we not used it for, fixing our cars and everything else!

 

[justin.d.richards.9]

Well I decided to tear the Wilton apart somewhat.. Took the body apart to get the rear off that was welded on.. Best part was the center was turned and offset so I couldn't just punch the pin out.. The pins broke and instead of replacing them he welded the back up for some reason.. The reasoning for that i do not know. But I got it all apart and it is actually stamped J1978J inside.. Also found another repair. As well in the process... BUT IT WAS FREE.. He thought it was just a knock off wilton.








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[Outlawmws]

Different jaws have different patterns and sometimes none for a no mar, grip. Lots of early to mid century Parker's have a light pattern like that. Reeds are typically coarser, or smooth, but not always.

 

[oldldh]

Does anyone know where I can get a pair 6'' T-Style vise jaw inserts for a Reed No.106 Vise. Thanks

Reverend Kevin Scott...World famous steel whittler, sells jaws...

www.benchvisejaws.com

He gives a discount for Garage Journal folks...

 

[equitiesguy]

How do you debate over that for $118.00??

I had a solid lead on a used 450s in really nice condition, and was considering that instead.

 

[va.grouseman]

Looking at a Craftsman 5162 - are these jaws so used or were they like that always?

Honza, I have a 804 Columbian with that same diagonal cut pattern.---And shallow like that too.---Outlaw is right, yours is what it's supposed to be.

 

[gman007]

Had to post my Columbian D45-M4. I've been spending so much time on the Wiltons and started feeling bad about the Columbian, sadly looking at me on the bench. This is a judgement free zone isn't it? (yea, no it not) We have had it over 40 years. Dad bought the steel bench from a Buick dealer that was sold and moving around 1975 and the Columbian came with it. It was used pretty good then. Do they date code Columbians? Guess I'll find out. It's next and it sure deserves it. What have we not used it for, fixing our cars and everything else!

Pik
I don't believe there is any date code for the D series Columbians. Based on the minor version (M4) I think it might have been manufactured in late 60s- early 70s (I have seen versions up to M6).

 

[Gearheadmb]

One of my plans for this fall or winter was to build myself a proper woodworking bench. So when I stumbled upon this cool old woodworking vise on CL I had to jump on it.

 

[oneoldboot]

Rigid #26.

1/8 to 5"

~35lbs

 

[BeardedOne]

I just got these "machinist" vises in over the last week and a half or so.

The 2 on the left arrived today and I'm guessing they were some sort of school project as they are similar. One has the name "bruce" near the screw, while the other has lettering down the side. With my FIL and MIL moving to KY from Texas in the last couple weeks, I decided to get him a small conversation piece that may actually be used a little. He likes nice tools as well and has a nice Wilton he bought from Zoro. I hope to learn much from him about welding too. They're fantastic people for sure.

The little vise on the right with the knurled handle was an ebay purchase also and it will be user as well. After I give my FIL one of the "twins," I'll have 18 vises with plans to pick up a few more.

pikapp-The D45-M4 is one I'm hoping to acquire sometime and thank you for showing yours off

 

[LesserSon]

found both of these this weekend, neither have marking I can find. one is 1 1/2" the other is 2" jaws.

I’m pretty sure those are Bonney vises. They look like the ones on p47 & p52 of the 1914 catalog, or for that matter, the 1886 catalog.
I had a bit of Bonney luck today. This 2” jaw No.114 Champion turned out to have a good amount of original “bright red baking enamel” under what I think was dried up BLO. I cleaned it with a toothbrush and WD40, which did lift some of the paint. Maybe it was loose. Missing the clamping screw, but I think a C-clamp could be sacrificed to the purpose, if I can find the right thread. Original price was $.75 in 1914. Wish I had gotten it for something closer to that, but I messed up negotiating the price by saying “okay” instead of making a counteroffer.

 

[royce]

A generous forum member JZiggy loaned me a hydraulic ram and gauge to check the force that a vise generates.
I did not measure the torque on the handles when I did these checks, just used what I felt to be prudent, by feel.
Anyhow here is the numbers on a few vises, some being somewhat surprising.

Reed 105 5600#
Parker 674-1/2 3364#
Parker 976 8972#
Athol 624 7401#
Parker 974 4307#
Reed 403-1/2 4307#
American Scale 79 5383#
Parker 239X 6953#
Reed 106 7401#
Parker 973 3140#
Versavise 2243#
Millscott No 13 13458#

This was a very interesting study

Royce

 

[kwoswalt99]

A generous forum member JZiggy loaned me a hydraulic ram and gauge to check the force that a vise generates.
I did not measure the torque on the handles when I did these checks, just used what I felt to be prudent, by feel.
Anyhow here is the numbers on a few vises, some being somewhat surprising.

Reed 105 5600#
Parker 674-1/2 3364#
Parker 976 8972#
Athol 624 7401#
Parker 974 4307#
Reed 403-1/2 4307#
American Scale 79 5383#
Parker 239X 6953#
Reed 106 7401#
Parker 973 3140#
Versavise 2243#
Millscott No 13 13458#

This was a very interesting study

Royce

You should do a study to see how much they can take before they break.

 

[royce]

You should do a study to see how much they can take before they break.

That would be impossible to quantify, to many variables, plus I don't think I have the stomach to break a vise.
I look at a vise the same way I look at a c-clamp, I've never met one I could not destroy, quite easily.
With that said, I have never broke a real vise and it has been many moons since I ruined a c-clamp.
There is a boat load of ignorance on both ends of the spectrum of what a vise can or can't do.
With that said, the only way I know to not destroy a c-clamp or vise is by feel and there is no chart for that.

Royce

 

[pikapp]

Royce - really interesting data and thank you for your efforts. I've not come across anyone thats ever attempted this type of test. As I become more and more familiar here with the models of the Parkers, Reeds, and Athols, I'm getting and idea of scale of each one.
Have any Wiltons laying around to spin up?
Ignore kwos - breaking something by accident is tough enough on the soul, especially something you have hours in restoring. Breaking it on purpose, even in the interests of science is just crazy!

 

[Outlawmws]

Royce, you should have also mentioned you stopped in the #13 just below the capacity of the device's gauge, as to go more would have damaged the gauge.

 

[royce]

Royce - really interesting data and thank you for your efforts. I've not come across anyone thats ever attempted this type of test. As I become more and more familiar here with the models of the Parkers, Reeds, and Athols, I'm getting and idea of scale of each one.
Have any Wiltons laying around to spin up?
Ignore kwos - breaking something by accident is tough enough on the soul, especially something you have hours in restoring. Breaking it on purpose, even in the interests of science is just crazy!

What I think I can take away from this non-scietific, not so accurate data is there is a big swing in power between the different sizes, manufactures and condition of the vises, that is not linear.
Another thing you don't see much chat about is screw pitches,looking at the numbers the the 624 athol and the 239x parker, you can see they are quite powerful for 4"vises.
The athol has a slower screw than any of my other vises and has the best feel under load,meaning I can sense what is happening at the jaws through the handle, the most
I do have a 600 wilton and can check it for you, if you would like.
Thanks
Royce

 

[royce]

Royce, you should have also mentioned you stopped in the #13 just below the capacity of the device's gauge, as to go more would have damaged the gauge.

That is true, but it was rubbing the limits of the handle length with 250# tugging on it.

Royce

 

[Outlawmws]

Royce; that is the other factor besides screw pitch is the handle length. add a couple inches to a 12" handle and that's significant!

 

[akasrick]

Reed 105 5600#
Parker 674-1/2 3364#
Parker 976 8972#
Athol 624 7401#
Parker 974 4307#
Reed 403-1/2 4307#
American Scale 79 5383#
Parker 239X 6953#
Reed 106 7401#
Parker 973 3140#
Versavise 2243#
Millscott No 13 13458#

This was a very interesting study
Royce

Just for comparison …

akasrick

 

[va.grouseman]

So if I had a pet TREX fitted with a set of DR. Scott's 6 x 12'' jaws, I would have the ultimate vise.

Come here boy, hold this I-beam while I take a foot off of it.

Oh, and I'll need a set of pipe jaws to go under those KM.

 

[va.grouseman]

Royce, that is some very interesting stuff.---Quite naturally though, the only way to know a vises true breaking point is to push it to that point.---Where you stopped off is information enough for anybody, short of destroying them.

My Dad was a mechanic and he did this thing in front of us all the time, demonstrating the quality of a cam-shaft.---We were just kids so we thought this was a true test until much later.---He would hold a cam-shaft out at shoulder level and say, ''boy, you know how to tell if a cam-shaft is good or not, if breaks in 3 or 4 pieces, it's a good one''.---Then he would drop it on the cement floor and if it broke in pieces, he would say, yea that was a good one, and if it didn't break he'd say, no that one is no good.---Went right over our heads for a long time.---Anyway, I was wondering if the same test could apply to vises.

 

[gman007]

So if I had a pet TREX fitted with a set of DR. Scott's 6 x 12'' jaws, I would have the ultimate vise.

Come here boy, hold this I-beam while I take a foot off of it.

Oh, and I'll need a set of pipe jaws to go under those KM.

VA But Millscott No 13 with 13458# which is also armed with DR. Scott's jaws beats your TREX with 8000# hands down (and Millscott No 13 does NOT need a couple of cows a day to feed, well may be it will need some Mobil 1 synthetic grease every once a while)

 

[gman007]

What I think I can take away from this non-scietific, not so accurate data is there is a big swing in power between the different sizes, manufactures and condition of the vises, that is not linear.
Another thing you don't see much chat about is screw pitches,looking at the numbers the the 624 athol and the 239x parker, you can see they are quite powerful for 4"vises.
The athol has a slower screw than any of my other vises and has the best feel under load,meaning I can sense what is happening at the jaws through the handle, the most
I do have a 600 wilton and can check it for you, if you would like.
Thanks
Royce

Royce Even though as you have stated this study might be "non-scientific", never the less it gives us a much better idea of forces involved. Thank you very much for posting it.

Combined this information with the very interesting info in the YouTube video that Akasrick posted where it says that the crocodile bite force is around 3700# and TREX is around 8000#, puts things a bit in perspective as to the level of the forces involved.

It might be also interesting if someone could measure the force applied by 8"+ old vises and see how do they compare to the your and Dr. Scotts master creation (Millscott No 13).

 

[royce]

Royce, that is some very interesting stuff.---Quite naturally though, the only way to know a vises true breaking point is to push it to that point.---Where you stopped off is information enough for anybody, short of destroying them.

My Dad was a mechanic and he did this thing in front of us all the time, demonstrating the quality of a cam-shaft.---We were just kids so we thought this was a true test until much later.---He would hold a cam-shaft out at shoulder level and say, ''boy, you know how to tell if a cam-shaft is good or not, if breaks in 3 or 4 pieces, it's a good one''.---Then he would drop it on the cement floor and if it broke in pieces, he would say, yea that was a good one, and if it didn't break he'd say, no that one is no good.---Went right over our heads for a long time.---Anyway, I was wondering if the same test could apply to vises.

VA,
I think we can agree that any descent vise is not going to fail from applying any reasonable torque to the handle,trouble starts when you start adding forces either by leverage to the work or more so, by impact.
Royce

 

[royce]

Royce Even though as you have stated this study might be "non-scientific", never the less it gives us a much better idea of forces involved. Thank you very much for posting it.

Combined this information with the very interesting info in the YouTube video that Akasrick posted where it says that the crocodile bite force is around 3700# and TREX is around 8000#, puts things a bit in perspective as to the level of the forces involved.

It might be also interesting if someone could measure the force applied by 8"+ old vises and see how do they compare to the your and Dr. Scotts master creation (Millscott No 13).

I too find this interesting, but the information gained does not mean much from the view that pretty much any of the mainstream vises do there jobs well.
Good fun all the same.

Royce

 

[txlonghorn1989]

This popped up this morning on CL locally. Didn't know Wilton had a pattern maker's vise.
Cool but I wouldn't pay $200 for it, their asking price.

 

[RagTopTA]

Found this little 3 1/2" Dunlap vise last weekend. Haven't gotten around to cleaning it up yet. Seems to be free from damage and works well for as dirty as it is.

 

[Josh C]

Hey there folks. Ran across an item at a tag sale a week ago that ended up becoming for the moment a vise accessory and even though I’m sure I’m not the first to stumble onto the idea since I haven’t seen it here or anywhere for that matter I wanted to throw it out there for contemplation.
The item is something that I was introduced to another lifetime ago when as a fifteen year old boy in the employment of a excavation contractor during my summer time school break I was often in the company of truck drivers (full time dump truck drivers) and when I was standing on the steps of a cab one day asked a driver “what’s that wheel thing on your steering wheel?, “ “ that’s a suicide knob” Now I’m sure it had different names across the nation but when I saw one for $1 I had to buy it. Took several days before I envisioned its placement.

-Enjoy the day-Josh

 

[JZiggy]

Hey there folks. Ran across an item at a tag sale a week ago that ended up becoming for the moment a vise accessory and even though I’m sure I’m not the first to stumble onto the idea since I haven’t seen it here or anywhere for that matter I wanted to throw it out there for contemplation.
The item is something that I was introduced to another lifetime ago when as a fifteen year old boy in the employment of a excavation contractor during my summer time school break I was often in the company of truck drivers (full time dump truck drivers) and when I was standing on the steps of a cab one day asked a driver “what’s that wheel thing on your steering wheel?, “ “ that’s a suicide knob” Now I’m sure it had different names across the nation but when I saw one for $1 I had to buy it. Took several days before I envisioned its placement.

-Enjoy the day-Josh

That's an innovate time saver for sure! Cool idea

On some of my vises I've added a little groove at the center of the handle and a spring plunger in the hub, so that the handle stays at center. Then you can spin 'em up and run them in and out fast!