Anti seize on wheel lugs
- Thread starter Mike99
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Hagatronics
Well-known member
Yep. Always. Especially on race cars when there is high temperatures involved.
VAG spec optimol paste for use on their wheel bolts, its basically a ceramic anti-seize and a small amount should be put on the threaded portion.
Porsche recommend similar stuff for their centre-lock wheels.
Porsche recommend similar stuff for their centre-lock wheels.
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sberry
Banned
No, we use common penetrating spray.
People with argue for and against. I would follow the manual for your car as the stated torque will be correct for the mounting procedure in the manual.
User manual for my car (Vauxhall) states 'Clean wheel nuts and thread with a clean cloth before mounting the wheel.'
Not sure it's critical either way.
User manual for my car (Vauxhall) states 'Clean wheel nuts and thread with a clean cloth before mounting the wheel.'
Not sure it's critical either way.
aussiek2000
Well-known member
Don't put that **** on there. Makes a total mess any time you have wheels off. I've pulled 10's of thousands of lug nuts and never had one seized.
ex-x-fire
Well-known member
Any time I've seen stuff on wheel studs I clean it off. We hand torque wheels at work, if that stuff is on there you have to keep tightening the lug nut till you hit your torque. It could be more then 360* more then dry threads. What do you think that's doing?
Yep, stretching the studs.
Yep, stretching the studs.
FSrepair&fabrication
Well-known member
I always use a small dab of the brush on each wheel stud. Around here the **** will rust up solid in a mtter of a month. Ive broken alot of wheel studs that were rust welded to the nut, with a little bit of never seize hasnt happened since. May not seem like much, but break a stud or 2 doing a simple brake job or tire rotation, and you just made an extra hours worth of work for yourself.
Michael_in_DE
Well-known member
What these guys said.
If you are rotating your tires in the intervals that you should be, and torquing them to the spec they should be at, they should not be that hard to get off keeping the studs dry.
Wifes Mercedes has wheel bolts with Female threads in the hub. (it's fun getting the wheel on)
I do always use a wire bristle brush in a drill and compressed air to clean out the female ends of the hub, and a wire wheel on the lug bolts.
nh_yota
Well-known member
No because it's a good way to snap a stud.
I have never used anything on the lugs of any of my vehicles and I have never had a problem removing them, so I don't feel that it's needed. Maybe if the vehicle sits outside for a long time without use, but not for a daily driver that gets its tires rotated every few months.
I have never used anything on the lugs of any of my vehicles and I have never had a problem removing them, so I don't feel that it's needed. Maybe if the vehicle sits outside for a long time without use, but not for a daily driver that gets its tires rotated every few months.
toughest/tightest lug nuts I ever removed were on my old C230k, I was jumping on the damn breaker bar, car was rocking, it was crazy.
They are a pain but you should have the little threaded dowel that allows you to screw it into the top one to hold the wheel in place.
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American Locomotive
Well-known member
Lube won't cause a lugnut to work loose. It's about clamping force. Lubed threads will yield a higher clamping force for a given torque. Typically 25-35% higher, which may be enough to deform a stud.
I rarely put anti-seize on lugs, but I have broken more than a few thanks to heavy rust build up.
Boilerhouse
Well-known member
The manual probably says no, and I am sure many here will probably say no, but I do it. I have seen first hand studs snapping from seized nuts. I once helped a friend remove lug nuts from a Ranger, and although we got them all off OK, it was a workout. In both cases, the nuts had been dry fitted. So, out of curiosity, I googled this issue and got onto an engineering forum. The concensus was...anti-seize on studs can screw up torque values. However, it is mainly affected when the anti-seize is between the shoulder of the nut and the wheel. If you keep the lube confined to the thread only, the affect on torque is minimal, it can help with nut removal, and it beats fighting with a wheel at 2 am in a rain storm. So that is what I do. A year ago I had a flat on the freeway and it took 10 minutes from start to finish to change out the spare. I have never had a wheel come lose and will likely keep doing what I am doing,
I put a little bit on and am more worried about putting it where the hub/wheel meet so the rims doesn't get stuck on it.
Michael_in_DE
Well-known member
I do, thanks Chase. Had to buy a dedicated snap-on version. The much thinner and less threaded version siting the trunk seems down right scary to me.
Be careful of anecdotal evidence gentlemen. To say you are smarter than the engineering team at a long-standing automotive manufacturer is a strong thing to say. I'm not saying the manual is written in stone gospel, and they never make mistakes, but still, this is not a new concept.
sberry
Banned
The spray is about perfect. I am about following the instructions but the reason dry even came about is that we have so poor mechanic training that we can't get all the chimps to do it the right same way.
Never seize is too slippery, the Snapon torque wrench manul of old says,,,, clean lightly lubricated threads. John Deere tech training manual has a good take on this and splains it in plain engerish,,, try bolt gets stuck especially under speed and pressure. Not so much a problem back in the day of hand tightening but try seize and thread friction reduce clamping power. In some cases these fine threads friction weld.
We eliminated stuck bolts by spraying everything during install.
I got a bud, works at the parts store, buys a new trailer ball. I tell him, spray first. Doesn't pay attn. Changes his mind in a few minutes and wants to do something. Seized during hand install, ruined it.
Never seize is too slippery, the Snapon torque wrench manul of old says,,,, clean lightly lubricated threads. John Deere tech training manual has a good take on this and splains it in plain engerish,,, try bolt gets stuck especially under speed and pressure. Not so much a problem back in the day of hand tightening but try seize and thread friction reduce clamping power. In some cases these fine threads friction weld.
We eliminated stuck bolts by spraying everything during install.
I got a bud, works at the parts store, buys a new trailer ball. I tell him, spray first. Doesn't pay attn. Changes his mind in a few minutes and wants to do something. Seized during hand install, ruined it.
sberry
Banned
I had a concrete company come to ask,, why the wheels are coming loose. Duh, all try and rusty. Guy says,, we don't want to spray them,, it might make them come loose,, I guess the logic that they WERE coming loose didn't make sense.
They start with the spray,,, ah ha, problem solved, wheels get tight and stay. We had a dipstick own a tire/auto shop that knows more about **** then most people. The company sends truck for tire, came loose in about 50 miles. Yes, the bolts quit turning, no clamping power, sheared them right off. Over the years have removed lots of stuck **** from that guy got the air gun going at pit stop speed, he ruined a lot of cars.
They start with the spray,,, ah ha, problem solved, wheels get tight and stay. We had a dipstick own a tire/auto shop that knows more about **** then most people. The company sends truck for tire, came loose in about 50 miles. Yes, the bolts quit turning, no clamping power, sheared them right off. Over the years have removed lots of stuck **** from that guy got the air gun going at pit stop speed, he ruined a lot of cars.
AffableCurmudgeon
Well-known member
My question is why? I live in high snow high salt area. Never had an issue with any American, German or Japanese car with lug nuts seizing. As mentioned by others, you will only end up tightening them over the specs.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
sberry
Banned
I think they come with dry install from engineers never actually used a wrench. Lube on threads is nothing new but has often been misappilied. I have never seen never seize instructed in common application.
Light lube has been recommended for decades and see it applied well on some European trucks. Look at head bolt instructions back in the day, clean holes, light lube which before common sprays of today was engine oil well dilluted with kerosene.
Light lube has been recommended for decades and see it applied well on some European trucks. Look at head bolt instructions back in the day, clean holes, light lube which before common sprays of today was engine oil well dilluted with kerosene.
sberry
Banned
A little of the trend to try is from the aluminum wheel and the air gun. The slippery **** (another reason for dry) let's them tighten way too far, swedges out the hole. Instead of the light oil we have went to the slippery stuff, not right so whatcha gonna do,, the solution is dry since the chimps can't be trained to use the proper oil.
Adam C used to be here is engineer, had a good explanation of this.
Adam C used to be here is engineer, had a good explanation of this.
That's where I put it. It's really annoying to have to use a torch to take off wheels.
Michael_in_DE
Well-known member
I also put it there. The very definition of frustration is finally getting all the lug nuts off only to have the tire be stuck. ESPECIALLY on the road.
Eric29
Well-known member
Agree with this.
Is it specified in the shop manual? If not, I don’t use it. And I’ve never seen it specified.
Is it specified in the shop manual? If not, I don’t use it. And I’ve never seen it specified.
3baygarage
Well-known member
I’ve found it to be quite helpful on my personal vehicles. It makes removal much better in the future.
PelicanPines
ALLIANCE MEMBER
My father was a military mechanic... in his youth. He had OCD about putting a dot of grease on a stud before putting a lug nut on. I follow his lesson. I do use a torque wrench when done...
This works well, but the key is to put a thin piece of wood or something else solid under the inside edge of the tire.
I don't put anti-seize on my studs because I'm not confident in the torque spec adjustment to prevent over-stretching. However, I have had to replace a stud that twisted off with a seized nut, and the car was only a few years old when it happened...
Some of those get a torch and a drilling hammer. They can get ridiculous. I recently started using Fluid Film after watching Eric O.
bigdav160
Well-known member
QFT!
The seized nuts/broken studs are more likely because they were torqued into the yield. Although my bay boat trailer tends to rust the nuts to the studs.
Torque charts (not automotive service manuals) usually give torque values for dry as well as lubricated fasteners. The short version is lubed fasteners are torqued to a lower value to maintain the same clamping force.
Ever break a stud? I have and it sucked.
cvairwerks
Well-known member
Started using it on the truck when I bent a bit 3/4 break bar trying to get the nuts off on one wheel. The wheel had been installed and torqued about 3 weeks before. Took it back to the tire shop and they couldn't break 12 of the other 18 loose that they had installed the same day. I changed all the nuts the next weekend after inspecting all the studs for damage.
At work we have installs that are down with various lubricants, corrosion preventatives or sealants. Torque values are specified for the specific installation conditions.
At work we have installs that are down with various lubricants, corrosion preventatives or sealants. Torque values are specified for the specific installation conditions.
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Mustang415
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2015
- Messages
- 38
I’ve removed tens of thousands lug nuts. Only ones that ever broke were because the last jack wagon who put them on cross threaded them and sent it. Anti seize just makes a gigantic unnecessary mess. No anti seize, hand torqued, no problems.
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I used them religiously after the security cap of the security lug bolt snap off (due to seized bolt) and had to drill them out... Never had an issue after I apply a little dap to the bolt each time the lugs are off now. Dedicated 8oz bottle just for this. Asian or European cars...The only time these things won't work to anti seize is on the exhaust hardware... now that is something else.
Probably you have never encounter a car driven on the rust belt... or monkey/chimp with an impact wrench at the tire store.... or the combination of both is the worse.
Professional Tool User
Well-known member
I would say no to anti seize unless it's something where it's guaranteed to be seized next time if you don't anti-seize it. I'm talking about stuff like suspension bolts that you won't be touching for many years. Lug nuts usually aren't going to be that bad.
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cvairwerks
Well-known member
Nickle based anti-seize works well...Good to 2400F.