The wet garage raise

[Sparkynutz]

Cracks aren't even damp. There is a few coats of slightly flexible foundation coating on outside and outside was compacted pretty well. Not too worried just yet. This winter will be the real test if any heaves happen or if the ground dries out before freezing.

I put 1/4" fanfold insulation at top 16" that will act as my thermal break for slab. I didnt want to use a larger expansion joint material only at top because it will be seen, more to caulk, and more area for debris and **** too when sweeping. By keeping joint as small as possible once the slab is poured the outside wall won't be able to push in more than the 1/4" each side or whatever it compacts to. I don't plan on pinning slab to wall. It really shouldn't push out either unless massive amounts of water get in and it freezes. In that case I'm pretty sure the outside should still exert similar even pressure inward. I don't really see slab moving up or down much either as long as I do a good job compacting base. Hopefully that keeps slab from cracking except where I cut it.

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[wssix99]

Cracks aren't even damp. There is a few coats of slightly flexible foundation coating on outside and outside was compacted pretty well. Not too worried just yet.

If water is a problem, you would only see it in action below the ground line.

I wouldn't worry yet, either. I'd just watch it and then dig down and follow it to the foundation if it starts getting bigger. Heaving won't be your problem; (that would be easy to see) the thing to watch for is lateral spread of the crack. (If the crack is getting bigger, it will crack the foundation coating at a certain point, also.)

It really shouldn't push out either unless massive amounts of water get in and it freezes.

The situation I'm thinking about is the swimming pool effect; where water would slowly sneak in, then the yard would dry out fast, and then the foundation would hold on to water like a pool, slowly draining back out through the cracks. The hydraulic pressure from this (retaining water behind the wall) can be large.

 

[Sparkynutz]

If water is a problem, you would only see it in action below the ground line.

I wouldn't worry yet, either. I'd just watch it and then dig down and follow it to the foundation if it starts getting bigger. Heaving won't be your problem; (that would be easy to see) the thing to watch for is lateral spread of the crack. (If the crack is getting bigger, it will crack the foundation coating at a certain point, also.)




The situation I'm thinking about is the swimming pool effect; where water would slowly sneak in, then the yard would dry out fast, and then the foundation would hold on to water like a pool, slowly draining back out through the cracks. The hydraulic pressure from this (retaining water behind the wall) can be large.

In that case if it becomes an issue I dig down and drill drain weep holes around bottom of wall. Hopefully the water pressure from outside during heavy rains goes down before it has a chance to weep in in first place and I don't have to worry about it. I guess I'll see in time. No horizontal cracks that I can tell. Only vertical. Kinda glad I didnt do block now and stronger rebar reinforced concrete.

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[Sparkynutz]

My other option would be drill a big hole at bottom of the drain I installed to bottom of concrete and essentially install a mini sump hole I can pump it dry when or if needed. We'll see

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[wssix99]

Hopefully the water pressure from outside during heavy rains goes down before it has a chance to weep in in first place and I don't have to worry about it. I guess I'll see in time.

Yea, that's why I'd just watch it. Water is powerful and usually pushes situations to equilibrium pretty quickly.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I finally got caught back up, well done and you have busted your *** in the last 8-10 months.

I wouldn't worry too much about any water intrusion coming in from the cracks. You coated the outside so it should e good against anything normal. For peace of mind, grab a tube of SikaFlex Concrete fix and caulk the inside joist shut. Once the floor is poured chances are even less of having an issue.

When I poured my new floor, I went down a bit in the front and tried to tie it to what little foundation wall was there. Once that was done, I poured a new apron out front. It's been like 9 years and I haven't had an issue with any water intrusion, freezing or lifting. I would think for you to have a issue, you would need something like a tornado with a driving rain or some 100-150 year storm. If that's the case, you'll have bigger things to worry about.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Well. All filled and almost ready for concrete. I want to rake it one more time and compact again just before I put foam down but that won't be until I have someone or a plan lined up to pour the slab. Until then I can store my toys in there.
I have a lot of gravel left and next step will be to do final finish grading around outside of garage and get grass seed down on last yard portion of it.

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[86turbodsl]

The inside looks like **** now and I've been on about a month break from it.

No construction even remotely close.
Everybody is either too busy or doesn't care to even look at it.
I've called a lot in the area and only even got one call back saying maybe in a month or two if you finish the grading. I really just want to walk away and come back to it finished if I could.

The downside of a smoking hot economy is always that you can't get anything done by others to save your life. They're all too busy with huge jobs. I bet you have to DIY if you want it done soonish.

 

[xtremek]

The "floor" looks great. I bet the wait is killing you even more now.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Well.. as I figured I'm pouring the floor myself with my uncle and friends. Hopefully it turns out and goes smooth.
Out of 20+ calls I got 3 quotes. 3k from a young kid. He acted cocky and didnt get a good vibe from him nonetheless the overpriced quote. 2nd quote was a guy seemed decent until I asked a mutual friend of ours about his work. He said he lost his business 5 years ago and lots of trouble with the law for taking money and not doing work. His quote was $900 and I pay for the concrete.
Last quote was a text from very first contractor that was supposed to do the wall and excavating and whole job in the first place. It's been rainy and crappy and he saw my posts looking for someone so he texted me $2600 if he can do it on a rain day next week. That includes only concrete and finish work. It's supposed to rain 5 days.
Price seems a little high yet when his original quote last year was $3k including supplying the rebar, foam, and doing all the work on floor. I have $700+ in the foam alone and that doesn't even include labor putting it down.
I called and got mix recommendation from guy that mixes the concrete at batch plant.
He said 4500psi no air, 4" slump, 3/4" aggregate, 10%fly ash.
Hopefully that's a good mix.
My uncle wanted me to put air in for freeze thaw benefits but everything I read online and talking to mix guy says not to if using a finishing machine so I'm hoping that's the right way to go.
I didnt ask for price but got it figured at 8.31 yards if grading is perfect but I doubt it is so I'm getting 10 yards split in two trucks so that hopefully my driveway doesn't get any more cracks in it. 2 sidewalk sections plus 6 new driveway cracks showed up from all my gravel deliveries. Kinda late now but glad I didnt haul it all from road every damn bucket load. I framed up a pad for my garbage cans and a step in front of service door today. If theres enough extra to pour them I will. If not then oh well and at least I won't be wasting any concrete.
I regraded driveway with leftover gravel and lifted my ac unit another 3 inches so it slopes away better. Everything is wrapping up nicely. The grass is coming in good along side of garage where I finished last of yard grading and the ditch between my neighbor and I has been a water filled swamp for a few weeks. They still refuse to repipe their sump discharge to storm sewer but at least now it all stays in their yard until it overflows sidewalk and goes to road instead of my garage. My yard on other hand has been wet but not a single standing puddle anywhere. My grading worked excellent.
I asked inspector to stop a few days ago to check out my work prior to pouring the slab and he said it all looked good even the drain. He said he didnt need to come back since I was doing slab myself and that was only thing left. Building permit expires next week so timing is pretty much perfect.
Can't wait till this wraps up so I can post some finished pics and create a start to finish YouTube video from the pics and footage since I didnt get a chance to post anything from pouring the walls.
Thanks for all the encouragement and kind words from everyone that followed along my journey!


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[Growlertdi]

best of luck. has been quite the journey.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I found some roof damage and fascia missing on my house from the storm. ***** but coulda been much worse. My yard is still squishy but no standing water anywhere so that's a plus.
New tax appraisal came in mail. They are on crack. House went up $40k and my share of taxes went from about $4600 a year to $5700. Its appraised at $20k more than I paid and I paid way too much looking into how much I blew to get this garage even useable. I have a meeting on 6th to contest it. Hopefully it goes well. I'm going to have a hard time keeping a cool head. I'm going to tell them I'll gladly sell it to them for what they appraised it at and walk away. I planned on living here the next 15-20 years but if things don't change tax wise what's the point? Any tips on how to get things lowered?

I've contested my assessments many times. Track record is 50% success rate at having it reduced. You need to give them a folder of comps sold in last 3 months that supports your claimed value position (don't use any sales over 3 months old). Only "Sold" comps are usable. Easiest way is to contact a realtor and have them email or print out the comps. You can do it using Zillow, but it's way easier to use a realtor with full MLS access. I usually make a spreadsheet comparing the comps and my property.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I've contested my assessments many times. Track record is 50% success rate at having it reduced. You need to give them a folder of comps sold in last 3 months that supports your claimed value position (don't use any sales over 3 months old). Only "Sold" comps are usable. Easiest way is to contact a realtor and have them email or print out the comps. You can do it using Zillow, but it's way easier to use a realtor with full MLS access. I usually make a spreadsheet comparing the comps and my property.

I made an appointment and contested amount with lots of ammo. Similar sales and even the bank appraisal when I bought the house last year. Meeting went well and a few days later I got revised appraisal a couple hundred above bank appraisal. Was definitely worth the small hassle. Now I just have to wait until they release the mill rate indicating amount I'll actually have to pay. My city goes through money like it grows on trees spending over the top for dumb fancy **** nobody wants or needs. Very frustrating. My old high school is now a grade school so of course they had to remodel but everything is just asinine. No desks in sight. Theres new triangle shaped tables with footstool looking chairs all over and couches in rest areas along hallways. The lockers were too tall so instead of installing lockers sized to the kids they installed these extremely tiny lockers about 3ft tall with slanted top so nothing can go on top. My daughters backpack barely fits. I'm curious where winter coats and snow pants will go. From there to ceiling is just dead wasted space.
They made the parkinglot/dropoff areas much bigger but added fancy rocks and curbs leaving actually less parking spots than there used to be. They removed two of the driveways so now traffic is backed up in and out even worse. It's like getting stuck in a car dealer maze with only one way in or out. Whoever makes these dumb decisions deserves a swift kick in the head. Hopefully someday we get people spending our tax money with a kick of sense but I doubt it seeing everybody in this poorly ran country in the same boat throwing money down the drain.
Ok. Enough ranting. Time for bed. Long day ahead putting foam and rebar down and get ready to pour.

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[joes169]

I called and got mix recommendation from guy that mixes the concrete at batch plant.
He said 4500psi no air, 4" slump, 3/4" aggregate, 10%fly ash.
Hopefully that's a good mix.
My uncle wanted me to put air in for freeze thaw benefits but everything I read online and talking to mix guy says not to if using a finishing machine so I'm hoping that's the right way to go.



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I run partial air in most every floor we pour, we even use 1/2 air in basement floors. We machine finish 95% of our floors, never have an issue with blistering other than a few times with full air. W/o any air, the concrete is likely to bleed out a ton of water being over plastic, which normally delays the finishing process dramatically.

Who are you pouring with, Carew?

 

[Sparkynutz]

I run partial air in most every floor we pour, we even use 1/2 air in basement floors. We machine finish 95% of our floors, never have an issue with blistering other than a few times with full air. W/o any air, the concrete is likely to bleed out a ton of water being over plastic, which normally delays the finishing process dramatically.

Who are you pouring with, Carew?

Yes. Carew. It's the closest place to me.
Most of the other local guys use dodge or some other one I've never heard of for some reason tho. Not sure why. I have a small bottle of air additive from menards I was planning on having added to whatever is leftover before doing the exterior garbage can slab and step in front of door.
Thanks for the input on air. I will try and get more input before I order it.

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[Sparkynutz]

Wide awake at 3am from storm so I got a jump on finishing garage fill grade. I took some pics of the yard as soon as it got light to show what it looks like now.
I zigzagged strings all over and swore I was within 1/2" when I shoveled extra gravel in the low spots. I didnt rehang the strings and double check after compacting 2nd time but should have. I thought it looked pretty good and close so I put foam down. It was obvious after walking on the foam there were dips and the low spots were still low after compacting.
One whole corner is going to get 6" concrete with majority of the thickness between 5 and 5.5" with only maybe 10% or less measuring at 4.5" I was shooting for.
Kinda late now and I wasn't pulling foam up because I had to run compactor back again anyways. Hopefully varied thickness won't matter too much. What do you think? After lunch my uncle and I threw the rebar down best we could without measuring and just used everything up I had on hand. Not the purdiest or symmetrical as my typical work but it will only be seen until next Saturday. We tossed some plywood leftover from wall forms down to wheelbarrow the back on and got all the tools ready. I'm renting a finishing machine and plan on hanging from ceiling the night before the pour above the corner we start on. One step closer to parking in it.
My uncle also said he'd rather have half air in mix so I guess I'll ask for that.
Tomorrow I can rest spending time with family. The kids played with neighbor kids after trying their hand at rebar tying. They didnt do too bad.

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[Platonic Solid]

Looks great and like a ton of work. You must be ready to put a period on this project. Will you be using something to hold the rebar up or just pick it up during the pour?

 

[Sparkynutz]

I have rebar chairs I had planned to use but just looked at them and they are 2-1/4 lift. Too much so I'll probably use brick chunks and/or hooks to just pick up. I dont like hook idea but at this point I just want the concrete done.

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[Platonic Solid]

What is the proper rebar height for your 5"-6" slab?

 

[Sparkynutz]

From what I've read bottom 1/3 of slab. With height of double and some triple stacked rebar the chairs would make it middle if not top 1/3. If it's too high you can see rust spots I'm told.

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[Diesel Dan]

Don't remember the % air but my slab had blistering issues when power finished.
That was in Hammond, WI.

This was back in 2008 and I had a heck of a time finding someone to do a 7yd pour. All prep work done, rebar in and blocked, forms up etc. Had one quote of $3400. Mud was at $110/yard so $2600+ in labor for a 14x28ish slab seemed kinda steep.

 

[wssix99]

From what I've read bottom 1/3 of slab.

If you read this, then someone was probably applying what they know about free standing beams to slabs on ground; which is not a correct thing to do.


American Concrete Institute - Design of Slabs on Ground (ACI 360):

"Reinforcement for crack-width control only should be at or
above mid-depth of the slab-on-ground, never below mid-depth."

^ Considering the above, you also need to keep 1.5" to 2" of cover on top of your reinforcement. (I'd plan for at least 2")

 

[joes169]

If you read this, then someone was probably applying what they know about free standing beams to slabs on ground; which is not a correct thing to do.


American Concrete Institute - Design of Slabs on Ground (ACI 360):

"Reinforcement for crack-width control only should be at or
above mid-depth of the slab-on-ground, never below mid-depth."

^ Considering the above, you also need to keep 1.5" to 2" of cover on top of your reinforcement. (I'd plan for at least 2")

Obviously, based on the amount of rebar the OP has placed, he's not trying to extend control joints or minimize crack width. It's simply put in place as an insurance policy for the future, in the not-so-are case that the "slab on grade" becomes a "concrete beam" due to changing/less-than-perfect subgrade issues. Trying to extend joint spacing is assinne in a house garage anyways, it's much easier, cheaper, and reliable to install control joints within spec.

In scenarios where extended joint patterns are desired (large wharehouses with high speed fork truck traffic for example) there's no much easier, cheaper, and efficient ways to do so w/o throwing crazy amounts of rebar at it. The trend has been high dosages of macro fibers for the last few years. If that's what the OP was looking for, he could easily order the concrete with support of the ready-mixed supplier . I know that they buy a certain macro fiber by the semi trailer load. Large concrete flatwork is getting converted from steel reinforcement constantly in this area.

Lastly, you better re-check your concrete cover info (ACI 360 7.7.1)

3/4" concrete cover minimum is what they call for in this scenario, not 1.5" - 2".....

 

[joes169]

Wide awake at 3am from storm so I got a jump on finishing garage fill grade. I took some pics of the yard as soon as it got light to show what it looks like now.
I zigzagged strings all over and swore I was within 1/2" when I shoveled extra gravel in the low spots. I didnt rehang the strings and double check after compacting 2nd time but should have. I thought it looked pretty good and close so I put foam down. It was obvious after walking on the foam there were dips and the low spots were still low after compacting.
One whole corner is going to get 6" concrete with majority of the thickness between 5 and 5.5" with only maybe 10% or less measuring at 4.5" I was shooting for.
Kinda late now and I wasn't pulling foam up because I had to run compactor back again anyways. Hopefully varied thickness won't matter too much. What do you think? After lunch my uncle and I threw the rebar down best we could without measuring and just used everything up I had on hand. Not the purdiest or symmetrical as my typical work but it will only be seen until next Saturday. We tossed some plywood leftover from wall forms down to wheelbarrow the back on and got all the tools ready. I'm renting a finishing machine and plan on hanging from ceiling the night before the pour above the corner we start on. One step closer to parking in it.
My uncle also said he'd rather have half air in mix so I guess I'll ask for that.
Tomorrow I can rest spending time with family. The kids played with neighbor kids after trying their hand at rebar tying. They didnt do too bad.

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Maybe buy a few patio block and break them up?

You'll be happy you went with full air, it will finish much better. People who don't suggest using partial air in WI at this time of year probably have never machine finished concrete in our area at this time of year. Besides, although you obviously plan on heating the garagenow, you won't own it forever, and it's likely to see freeze thaw cycles in the future.

As for hanging the machine, we generally find that the last part of the load sets the fastest, do to the increased revolutions in the truck, and find the concrete at the OH door tends to set as fast, or faster, than the rest of the concrete. If you're pouring more than one load, it pays to plan the placement ahead a little.

Good Luck!

 

[PugetDude]

Just made it through all 30 pages of this thread in one sitting; read like a good cliffhanger/adventure novel. A great job on a great project-and with with fantastic documentation!
Best of luck on the pour.
Subscribed!

 

[Sparkynutz]

Thanks for more info on the rebar. It was one of the few things I didnt research prior.
I just bought 90x 20ft 3/8" rod and used what was left after doing the walls which was around 65 or so I think. Good idea on chopping some patio blocks. I have a few laying around I can use and already have my uncles saw for cutting the concrete.
I think they are 1.5" thick or so. That won't make the rod in center or above but should be darn close. I need to go over the wire ties one more time and make sure none are sticking up. I really hope things dont settle and crack but I guess if they do I'll still be ahead of how garage used to be and be able to store my **** in a dry manner.
I am getting two trucks. What's a good time spacing between them? I was told the reason original slab looked like dog doo was because 2nd truck got lost showing up 2 hours late. There was a terrible hump and cold joint right in the middle of the floor. That's all hidden now tho and hopefully new stuff turns out better.
Is the last input on air a typo? Finish easier with more air? I heard exact opposite that finishing machine on concrete with air closes the bubbles and could lead to popping. I understand how air could be good but also allowing room for salt deposits could be bad too. Almost seems like the opposite of what a sealer densifier does and I already have that I was planning on putting on right after the saw cuts like the pail says 24 hours after pour.
Still torn on air for now but I have a few days yet to decide on that. Other than that it should be a good slow week just cleaning things up and working on small stuff till the pour.

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[Sparkynutz]

What's your thoughts on the varying slab thickness where I screwed up. Will that affect anything?
Thoughts on adding fiber? I think it only costs a little more and at this point in the game a little more money doesn't matter a whole lot.

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[Platonic Solid]

In scenarios where extended joint patterns are desired (large whorehouses with high speed fork truck traffic for example)

Dang, you've got some big whores there in WI

 

[Sparkynutz]

Dang, you've got some big whores there in WI

I didnt even notice that when I read it.
Funny context tho. Good catch!

I'm sure I have some dandy typing mistakes too. Wish I didnt have to go to website to fix them because tap talk doesn't support editing post.



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[Sparkynutz]

What's your thoughts on the varying slab thickness where I screwed up. Will that affect anything?
Thoughts on adding fiber? I think it only costs a little more and at this point in the game a little more money doesn't matter a whole lot.

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Also flyash?
I just got off phone with dodge concrete checking price and they recommended quite a different mix than carew.

Dodge said-
6 bag mix
No fly ash because it's getting colder
1/2 air
3/4" stone
5 to 5.5" slump

Carew said-
4500 psi mix
10% fly ash
Full air or no air don't bother with 1/2 air
3/4 stone
4" slump

What would you use and why?
Need to order by Wed if I go Dodge or friday for Carew.


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[garagelogician]

Also flyash?
I just got off phone with dodge concrete checking price and they recommended quite a different mix than carew.

Dodge said-
6 bag mix
No fly ash because it's getting colder
1/2 air
3/4" stone
5 to 5.5" slump

Carew said-
4500 psi mix
10% fly ash
Full air or no air don't bother with 1/2 air
3/4 stone
4" slump

What would you use and why?
Need to order by Wed if I go Dodge or friday for Carew.


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Just did a quick google search, came up with this in regards to fly ash in colder weather. https://www.concretenetwork.com/cold-weather-concrete/weather.html

I've never dealt much with mix design, but based on that it seems prudent to skip the fly ash. Not sure on the rest.

 

[wssix99]

Also flyash?

I wouldn't get too hung up on fancy admixtures. Since you are doing this yourself and don't finish concrete for a living, I would think (overall) you'll end up with a better product by looking for a mix that will allow a novice/hobbyist the best chance of a quality finish vs. going for a fancy slab.

There's no going back if you get into trouble with the finish.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I wouldn't get too hung up on fancy admixtures. Since you are doing this yourself and don't finish concrete for a living, I would think (overall) you'll end up with a better product by looking for a mix that will allow a novice/hobbyist the best chance of a quality finish vs. going for a fancy slab.

There's no going back if you get into trouble with the finish.

Which is?

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[joes169]

Also flyash?
I just got off phone with dodge concrete checking price and they recommended quite a different mix than carew.

Dodge said-
6 bag mix
No fly ash because it's getting colder
1/2 air
3/4" stone
5 to 5.5" slump

Carew said-
4500 psi mix
10% fly ash
Full air or no air don't bother with 1/2 air
3/4 stone
4" slump

What would you use and why?
Need to order by Wed if I go Dodge or friday for Carew.


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Those are almost the same mixes, other than the air content. With temps in the 40's to low 50's on Saturday, I'd go with out the fly ash. I would even consider some non-chloride accelerator. It looks like your uncle has some concrete work under his belt, I'd lean on him for what he's comfortable with pouring and finishing.

As for the air, yes, I'd not only suggest using partial air, but I actually do on 95%+ of the floors we pour, as do most every other professional that I know. As a matter of fact, our ready-mix supplier is apprehensive when you order w/o some air.

As for the varying thickness, it's not ideal, but it's also not that big of a deal. The foam helps take out the worst of it.

I'd skip the standard "Fibermesh", it's really only useful for the first few days, and if you're sealing that early, won't even help that long.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Those are almost the same mixes, other than the air content. With temps in the 40's to low 50's on Saturday, I'd go with out the fly ash. I would even consider some non-chloride accelerator. It looks like your uncle has some concrete work under his belt, I'd lean on him for what he's comfortable with pouring and finishing.

As for the air, yes, I'd not only suggest using partial air, but I actually do on 95%+ of the floors we pour, as do most every other professional that I know. As a matter of fact, our ready-mix supplier is apprehensive when you order w/o some air.

As for the varying thickness, it's not ideal, but it's also not that big of a deal. The foam helps take out the worst of it.

I'd skip the standard "Fibermesh", it's really only useful for the first few days, and if you're sealing that early, won't even help that long.

My uncle used to build steel buildings and do concrete for 20+ years. I have no doubt he knows what hes doing just rushes things a lot where I'm really **** on the little stuff hes the opposite.

He mentioned he wants fly ash but unsure how much. He said mix plant usually figured that out when he just told them to add it. He said it makes it finish better or easier.
He also wants chloride but everything I've read about the stuff is bad news for rebar so theres no way I want that. I'd rather have slow finish than weak useless rebar.
I plan on going to carew in person today to talk to guy that mixes it. I will ask about chloride free accelerator and his advice.
Hopefully I won't even need it.
The weather was supposed to be in the 40's and 50's pretty much all week but it has been a lot warmer than that.
It's already 66* today at 7:30am.
I have a bunch of plastic I was thinking of covering it with after pour to keep heat and moisture in. I can run some small heaters in the garage to keep temp up slightly if need be too.
I got a $5 laser temp gun from harbor freight the other day I was thinking of using to keep an eye on actual temps.
Getting closer and today's project will be cutting rebar support blocks and planing a nice straight edge on some 2x4's to use for strike off.

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[wssix99]

My uncle used to build steel buildings and do concrete for 20+ years. I have no doubt he knows what hes doing just rushes things a lot where I'm really **** on the little stuff hes the opposite.

Since you are relying on his expertise for the finishing, it would probably be wise to do the same for the mix and using what he is comfortable with. Plus - if he uses your mix and it doesn't turn out good - you'll get "I told you so" for the rest of your life from him!

He also wants chloride but everything I've read about the stuff is bad news for rebar so theres no way I want that. I'd rather have slow finish than weak useless rebar.

No worries here.

The stuff you read should have been aimed at outdoor pavements. (not garages or interior slabs) Salts are a bigger issue for outdoor pavements exposed to constant sources of moisture and seasonal sources of additional chloride. (A few bags of salt used as an admixture is dwarfed by what a roadway will see over its lifetime for snow treatment.) The salt water dripping off your cars in the winter will probably introduce more of this stuff over time to certain areas. (Again - this is nothing like a roadway or a bridge will see.)

Your garage is sheltered from all this stuff and the chemical environment is extremely mild compared to what a roadway sees. (Even with salt used as an admixture.)

 

[joes169]

My uncle used to build steel buildings and do concrete for 20+ years. I have no doubt he knows what hes doing just rushes things a lot where I'm really **** on the little stuff hes the opposite.

He mentioned he wants fly ash but unsure how much. He said mix plant usually figured that out when he just told them to add it. He said it makes it finish better or easier.
He also wants chloride but everything I've read about the stuff is bad news for rebar so theres no way I want that. I'd rather have slow finish than weak useless rebar.
I plan on going to carew in person today to talk to guy that mixes it. I will ask about chloride free accelerator and his advice.
Hopefully I won't even need it.
The weather was supposed to be in the 40's and 50's pretty much all week but it has been a lot warmer than that.
It's already 66* today at 7:30am.
I have a bunch of plastic I was thinking of covering it with after pour to keep heat and moisture in. I can run some small heaters in the garage to keep temp up slightly if need be too.
I got a $5 laser temp gun from harbor freight the other day I was thinking of using to keep an eye on actual temps.
Getting closer and today's project will be cutting rebar support blocks and planing a nice straight edge on some 2x4's to use for strike off.

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Just a few more thoughts, and clarification.

I noticed earlier that I accidentally typed full air when I should have typed half air entrainment. We almost always pour with 1/2 air, regardless of the time of year.

We use the same "Fat Max" drains on a regular basis. I've found the best way to pour around them with the best results is to remove the main grate/cover off of them and just leave the sediment basket in to catch any concrete chunks. It makes it much easier to ensure you're all the way down to the drain and not riding above it.

Order the concrete at a 4 - 4.5" slump, you can always add a little water once it's on site. Pouring wetter concrete around a drain rarely leaves a good finished product. It takes more "elbow grease, but it's worth it in the final product.

Non-chloride accelerators aren't as aggressives setting as the chloride based accels.that they replace. 1/2% chloride generally is equivalent to 3/4% NCA. NCA also tends to create a stickier surface, but with a straight 6 bag over poly & foam, it should actually work out better. IMPO, there's no good reason to choose a calcium chloride over NCA accelerators, other than cheaping out.

I know it's been warm the last few days, but Ican all but guarantee it won't be on Saturday morning. Pouring extremely slow setting concrete is more than likely going to make your Uncle get on it way to early, which isn't going to end in a better final product either. I'm guilty as well, on Saturday's, I push a little faster as my family time is a higher priority than some dumb concrete floor....lol...

Best of luck.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Just a few more thoughts, and clarification.

I noticed earlier that I accidentally typed full air when I should have typed half air entrainment. We almost always pour with 1/2 air, regardless of the time of year.

We use the same "Fat Max" drains on a regular basis. I've found the best way to pour around them with the best results is to remove the main grate/cover off of them and just leave the sediment basket in to catch any concrete chunks. It makes it much easier to ensure you're all the way down to the drain and not riding above it.

Order the concrete at a 4 - 4.5" slump, you can always add a little water once it's on site. Pouring wetter concrete around a drain rarely leaves a good finished product. It takes more "elbow grease, but it's worth it in the final product.

Non-chloride accelerators aren't as aggressives setting as the chloride based accels.that they replace. 1/2% chloride generally is equivalent to 3/4% NCA. NCA also tends to create a stickier surface, but with a straight 6 bag over poly & foam, it should actually work out better. IMPO, there's no good reason to choose a calcium chloride over NCA accelerators, other than cheaping out.

I know it's been warm the last few days, but Ican all but guarantee it won't be on Saturday morning. Pouring extremely slow setting concrete is more than likely going to make your Uncle get on it way to early, which isn't going to end in a better final product either. I'm guilty as well, on Saturday's, I push a little faster as my family time is a higher priority than some dumb concrete floor....lol...

Best of luck.

Thankyou so much for the in depth helpful response. Good point and I assumed same of my uncle wanting to bug out asap possibly at a disadvantage to finishing too early. What will that do or cause tho? Swirl marks or cosmetic issues I can handle. Causing popping or structural issues on other hand I'd definitely like to avoid.
Maybe he can show me how to use finishing machine if he wants to leave early or maybe see if he can just come back later. One of the other things I'm most worried about is cutting in time before cracks form on their own. Hopefully next morning will be soon enough.

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[Sparkynutz]

I re'read the drain thing and that really make sense now. I currently just have top taped but I'll just take top off like you do and insert a chunk of snug foam or cardboard below the top. That little wasted concrete to get a better drain transition should be worth it.
The other thing I just thought of is the other guy with concrete experience is one of my best friends. I just did him a favor today and I'm sure he wouldn't mind sticking around later or coming back to finish later in the day if need be. I'll either use the non chloride accelerator or none depending on temperature that day and what the guy at mix plant says when I order it.

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[Vintage Veloce]

I'm no expert, but I've heard you should cut the control joints as soon as you can walk on it. Waiting till the next morning is normal, but many consider it too late...