This spring I'm going to put together my in floor heat set up. I have pretty much everything figured out but I have one question. It may be a stupid question but why does it seem on so many of the more complicated set ups the hot feed and cold return seem to tie into each other? Thanks!
picts of your in-floor heat set ups.
- Thread starter E.rodz
- Start date
86turbodsl
Well-known member
I'm guessing a bit on what you're meaning here, but often cold return water is used to temper the feed temp to a loop down to a lower temp. Are you seeing a mixing valve there?
Oldbear
Well-known member
Conematic natural gas cone heater boiler. All self contained and managed. Two 180ft loops in the floor with the supply going along the outside walls first. Shown with and without cover. Electrical will be properly hooked up tonight. I've had it on for two nights and its working great. Very humid due to the moisture finally coming out from under the pad - I might have to work in shorts and a t-shirt until I can get my dehumidifier going.
Attachments
That1Guy
Well-known member
Seanc, I'm not an expert, but based on what I've read so far, I think it's to "blend" the hot and cold water to keep the water entering the heating element from being too cool to reduce unnecessary condensing.
At least that's what I've taken away from what I've been reading - no guarantees - lol.
I haven't learned nearly enough about all this stuff so probably best to wait for one of the experts to chime in. These guys seem to know a heck of a lot more about this than I do. I honestly thought it was gonna be a slam dunk to install mine but, after reading several of these threads here on GJ, I'm dang near inclined to hire it done so it gets done right! The more I read, the more questions I have - lol.
I will be watching for others to replpy to your question so we can both learn - lol.
Good luck on yours!
At least that's what I've taken away from what I've been reading - no guarantees - lol.
I haven't learned nearly enough about all this stuff so probably best to wait for one of the experts to chime in. These guys seem to know a heck of a lot more about this than I do. I honestly thought it was gonna be a slam dunk to install mine but, after reading several of these threads here on GJ, I'm dang near inclined to hire it done so it gets done right! The more I read, the more questions I have - lol.
I will be watching for others to replpy to your question so we can both learn - lol.
Good luck on yours!
Seanc, I'm not an expert, but based on what I've read so far, I think it's to "blend" the hot and cold water to keep the water entering the heating element from being too cool to reduce unnecessary condensing.
At least that's what I've taken away from what I've been reading - no guarantees - lol.
I haven't learned nearly enough about all this stuff so probably best to wait for one of the experts to chime in. These guys seem to know a heck of a lot more about this than I do. I honestly thought it was gonna be a slam dunk to install mine but, after reading several of these threads here on GJ, I'm dang near inclined to hire it done so it gets done right! The more I read, the more questions I have - lol.
I will be watching for others to replpy to your question so we can both learn - lol.
Good luck on yours!
Yes, I believe that is what they told me when they put mine in.
Ok so that must be only for true boilers? I am planning on using a on demand propane hot water heater because I can replace one of those 8 times before coming close the the cost of a boiler. Hot water heaters are built for the incoming water to be 40-50* and heating it up to 120* instantly.
Any insight?
Any insight?
dwysywd
Well-known member
Lookin good! I'm in the same boat with the spray foam. I couldn't swing it last Fall because I was "pole barn broke!" after the initial build and concrete - lol. I could have swung it after the new year but I chose to wait to avoid any issues with the cold. I've read that the walls need to be 55 degrees when they spray to avoid possible separation from the walls. I'm not willing to risk it so I chose to wait until Spring.
Sadly, now I've crammed so much **** from the garage, into the pole barn to give me room to work in the garage over the winter, that it'll take me an entire day just to gut the barn and pile everything outside of the barn to give them room to spray! LOL.
Will you be able to pull your system away from the wall to allow them to spray back behind it? I saw some gas pipe so it made me wonder - hmm
I'm definitely gonna follow along on this one.
Keep the updates and pictures comin!
Here is the link for my build. I will mostly post any update there. And I was told the same thing. Wait till we have week of 55+ degree weather before spraying. I did the same thing, filled the barn. LoL. But it has given me a chance to decide what to hang and spray over versus just spraying right away. I have some great insight.
Yes, the stuff will all come apart pretty easily to spray. And I don't mind reorganizing the barn again. Buy lots of carts with wheels.
Quanset Hut Garage Build
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...om/forum/showthread.php?t=314181&share_type=t
Sent from my bag phone
Just cause you hire it out, dosent mean its going to be done right.Seanc, I'm not an expert, but based on what I've read so far, I think it's to "blend" the hot and cold water to keep the water entering the heating element from being too cool to reduce unnecessary condensing.
At least that's what I've taken away from what I've been reading - no guarantees - lol.
I haven't learned nearly enough about all this stuff so probably best to wait for one of the experts to chime in. These guys seem to know a heck of a lot more about this than I do. I honestly thought it was gonna be a slam dunk to install mine but, after reading several of these threads here on GJ, I'm dang near inclined to hire it done so it gets done right! The more I read, the more questions I have - lol.
I will be watching for others to replpy to your question so we can both learn - lol.
Good luck on yours!
PNWguy
Well-known member
I'm in the final planning stage on a small house and bog shop. We don't have "back east" winters, but it does get down to 0 on occasion, and the months of January & February hover around freezing for weeks at a time.
I'll be building on 5 acres, but have access to all the wood I want to cut on the 55 acres next to me (my parents' place). I think I'll buy a wood fired boiler and put Pex in the floor of the house & shop.
I'll post updates here and hope to get some feedback.
I'll be building on 5 acres, but have access to all the wood I want to cut on the 55 acres next to me (my parents' place). I think I'll buy a wood fired boiler and put Pex in the floor of the house & shop.
I'll post updates here and hope to get some feedback.
Miss the Pontiacs
Well-known member
My setup is pretty basic at this point. The walls are up and the cement pad has been completed. I thought I would start on this thread to get advice on my next move toward heat. I have learnt that I should be looking for a noncondensing boiler that will be fired with natural gas. I have no way of disposing of water from a condensing boiler. I also realize the noncondensing boiler is less energy efficient. I am also under the impression that an on demand boiler are not a good option due to the fact they should not be fired continually. I have no idea what valves etc would be best. I will be heating just over 700 sq ft, 2x6 walls, 10’ to bottom of trusses, open an additional 2-3 ft to ceiling. This will be left open with a torched on roof with 2 layers of 4” insulation. Temperatures can get to the -40 C/F range. Two 8” R17 garage doors which will have minimum use in winter.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
My power panel is on an adjacent wall.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
My power panel is on an adjacent wall.
Attachments
That is what my nephew did and tried talking me into 2 years ago when we were planing our house, now when I see him he tells me how sick of cutting wood and feeding the boiler and getting someone to feed the boiler if they go somewhere for the weekend.
crook038
Well-known member
42X48 Shop/Garage in progress. I installed the stegowrap then the crete heat panels. I built a pex uncoiler and then I placed the pex into the panels and plumbed it to the manifolds. I marked out where I will be placing 2 2-post lifts and ran the pex around the area and installed the wire matt on 2.5" chairs. I had the floor poured in December 2017. I am currently waiting for the weather to warm up so I can lay down ArmorClad Epoxy with fleck and military grade top coat. I will install the high efficiency triangle tube boiler this summer and finish off the heating system as well as insulation and steel wall liner panels.
Sean
Sean
Attachments
crook038
Well-known member
86turbodsl
Well-known member
That's a nice clean install. Looks very good. Well done.
polexican23
Banned
floor looks great, probably cost more than my house.
I'm curious about this as well. Currently I have an on demand water heater running well on a primary/secondary loop system, but it seems like it might be more efficient if it were running straight through. Hmmm.....
Mancino
Well-known member
Crook038, I used the same Crete Heat panels for the radiant install in my garage...definitely on a smaller scale though. I only have 4 loops.
I'd be interested to see how your system works once you are up and running.
I'd be interested to see how your system works once you are up and running.
Gearhead777c
Member
Here are a couple pics of my Viessmann Boiler hooked to my radiant floor. I'm trying to find pics of my tubing layout. Works awesome. Heating 3200 sqft. So far I only burned about 250 gallons of propane since thanksgiving. Keeping the shop around 55. I had it at 65-70 for the first couple weeks to work the system a little harder after it's initial setup.
Attachments
crook038
Well-known member
Thanks for the compliment, I am a "one man band." I basically do most of my work by myself, my father has helped as well as my wife but mostly I work alone. This isn't necessarily by choice but due to work schedules over the years I have found myself usually preparing my projects so that I can accomplish the task by myself. Using the Crete heat panels allowed me to lay out the loops and secure them without assistance. Yes the cost was around $1000 more for the crete heat panels over the cost of 4x8 sheets of foam but I feel the time savings and ease of installation were worth the increase in cost. I also like that the pex was somewhat protected when walking around on top of it since it is recessed into the panel, this sure helped out when the concrete crew was pouring the slab and had to walk the hose around the inside of the building. The panels aren't for everyone, but they were just right for my situation.
Sean
Hi, just noticed your question. I burn about 4 cord a year to heat my 2000 sq ft house. Typically we load it and fire it every 48 hours. It heats the 1050 gallons of water up to 220 degrees and we reload and fire when it drops down to about 140/150. We use it year round for domestic hot water which requires us to fire it about once a week or so. That's probably another cord of wood. I haven't hooked it up to the garage floor yet though so that will of course cause me to burn a little more wood.
pamike
Well-known member
I have a question for all the radiant heat experts. Obviously the tubing in the concrete is pex, but why does everyone use copper on their panel at the boiler? If pex can take the heat in the floor why doesnt anyone use pex between the boiler and the pumps/valves etc.
Thanks!
Thanks!
86turbodsl
Well-known member
Pex breaks down with continual UV exposure. Fluorescents give off some UV. That's the only reason i can think of. That and people tend to like the look of rigid copper plumbing.
stingry
Well-known member
View media item 87701
Here’s my recently installed system. I used both pex and copper for several reasons. Copper is more expensive than pex. Copper assemblies are more rigid than pex, so less support is needed. When using pex, careful planning is needed so you have access to the clamp rings with the crimping tool. Long runs of pex tend to sag, so more support is needed. When pex is subjected to hot water, it expands along its length, making bows in previous straight runs.
Cheers
Steve
I've got that same unit, not running yet though. My shop is 1200 sq ft. How much space are you heating? Do you use the domestic hot water too?
Kubota Tee
Well-known member
Radix2
Well-known member
Are you actually using a heat exchanger?
what is your heat source?
It is usually recommended to set up with a primary/secondary loop to avoid having your zone pumps deal with the restriction in the boiler, many boilers have the primary pump built in. If you go thus way, the diagram looks about the same, the difference is that the zone pumps pull off the primary loop with closely spaced t's.
Kubota Tee
Well-known member
I plan on using either an HTC Versa Hydro unit (has built in heat exchanger and pump) or an HTC Lite Duty water heater in which case I would add a loop with another Grundfos Alpha pump to the heat exchanger.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tfinniii
Well-known member
I would use separate return thermometers on returns to be able to tune system.
Kubota Tee
Well-known member
Thanks tfinniii,
Those gauges are relatively cheap and easy to install at onset of the project versus down the road. I’ve modified the design to accommodate your recommendation! I’ve also included the water heater choices that I’m considering. This would supply both domestic hot water as well as radiant heat.
And for those interested, here is a rendering of the barn/shop I am building. I’ll be starting a thread soon on this build.
Thanks again for the feedback!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Attachments
forAK
Well-known member
I'm heating a 40x40 slab (1600 sq ft) with it. My lid is 14' and I have it attached to a 32x28 shop. There's a 10x8 opening between the 2 shops and it heats up both, but just the 40x40 area has pex in the slab. If needed i can run the wood stove or forced air furnace in the smaller.
Yes, I am using the domestic heating ability as well. No complaints.
Nivekdodge
Well-known member
Fastback
What does that run a month to heat it to 50 degrees? Any ideas?
What does that run a month to heat it to 50 degrees? Any ideas?
bams50
Well-known member
This thread is now nine years old and I notice one thing in common: people seem to be unwilling or afraid to report back with what their actual heating costs were, in dollars and cents. I’m wondering if maybe it cost way more than anticipated, and people don’t want to admit their disappointment.
NitroGarage
Well-known member
My parents 40x60x16 is heated with an eco smart 120a tankless. Electricity is 11c kwh. Shop has a dedicated meter. Winter months the bill is $400.
I told them to get a propane unit.
Sent from my SM-N960U using The Garage Journal mobile app
forAK
Well-known member
Maybe, but I don't recall anyone asking in particular. For me, my 40x40 added another $50 a month in natural gas. Was it worth it? Absolutely. I love it.
bruincounselor
Well-known member
My wife pays that utility bill. I asked last winter if the warm garage had much impact on the costs - she said she didn't notice it. I'm in North Dakota for reference - NG and foamed tight 24x38' with lots of garage door.
coldh2o
Well-known member
Really hard to judge without many years of data to analyze, and you'd have to break it down into degree-days to get an accurate comparison. You'd also have to normalize the varying cost of energy. But...
I used an average of 4500 litres/year of propane (house heat, hot water, range, fireplace and BBQ) in the 4 years before installing radiant (propane boiler) in my 27x40x14 shop. In the 4 years since, I've averaged 5300 l/year. So the shop uses roughly 800 l/year. At the current propane cost around here of $0.66/l, that's $528/year to heat the shop, or less than $100/month over the six month heating season. Actually slightly less because the boiler also does domestic hot water in the shop.
YMMV
BlueBomber
Well-known member
Concur that it would be an apples, oranges, tomatoes and coconuts comparison without normalizing the data. In my case, it's a 25' x 36' detached garage w/ 3 insulated doors, 6 double pane windows, 3-1/2" fiber glass insulation in the walls. I have a programmable thermostat that keeps it at 48° except: weekday mornings it rises to 63°to warm up SWMBO's car, and weekends it rises to 63° from 7am to 11pm to make the shop comfortable for tinkering. Under those conditions, it still depends on how cold the outside air gets. I haven't tracked my detailed natural gas bill in a while, but I have not noticed a huge increase over the last four years due to heating the garage. Is it worth it? That's a preference question. It was a large initial investment to buy equipment to heat a space I spend an average of 8 hours per week in. For me, it was worth it.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Last edited:
bams50
Well-known member
Thanks for the responses. I understand that there are too many variables to make any substantive comparison. I was just hoping to get some ballpark ideas. I asked this question maybe a couple years ago and nobody wanted to answer.
I want to build a 50 x 100 x 16‘ interior height building. It will probably be pole construction, metal interior and exterior, with spray foam insulation. I talked to a few radiant heat dealers, and nobody had any answers as regards ROI. It made me a little skeptical as to whether the cost of a system made enough savings to justify over my current hanging gas forced air heater.
I want to build a 50 x 100 x 16‘ interior height building. It will probably be pole construction, metal interior and exterior, with spray foam insulation. I talked to a few radiant heat dealers, and nobody had any answers as regards ROI. It made me a little skeptical as to whether the cost of a system made enough savings to justify over my current hanging gas forced air heater.