generator --diesel or natural gas

[Tim Kennedy]

Looking to purchase a generator capable of powering the whole house --- sooo --- looking for the pros & cons on diesel vs natural gas. If all goes as planned it would be a complete package --- automatic transfer switch/in an outside enclosure away from the house itself. Any & all info,advice,opinions are appreciated.

 

[naturalgas]

Easy one for me. Natgas is the way to go. Initial cost will be more to run gas line to unit but fuel cost will be at least a third less. Burns cleaner , less maintenance and constant fuel supply without the worry of running low during an outage. I wish I had gas at my house. I will have to go with propane.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[HOTFR8]

Looking to purchase a generator capable of powering the whole house --- sooo --- looking for the pros & cons on diesel vs natural gas. If all goes as planned it would be a complete package --- automatic transfer switch/in an outside enclosure away from the house itself. Any & all info,advice,opinions are appreciated.

You could have many different answers depending on your location (noted not shown) as to what you have round you like fuel supply in propane etc.

I went Diesel here but only to supply esentials in case of fire. Diesel for example will run better in a fire situation than Petrol (gas) or Propane. I already have Solar with battery back up.

 

[b-boy]

If you have access to NG, that's the way to go. I've been in about a half a dozen generator situations. I never ran out of NG, but finding fuel was always a problem. In a black-out, gas stations have power issues too.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Diesel pro;
interoperable with truck.
some jackass 200 miles away won't push a button and shut you down after an earthquake.
You can run it on all kinds of weird stuff if SHTF.

con; louder, only really efficient at high load

 

[txvwnut]

The thing with a diesel backup generator is you will need to setup a monthly run schedule to keep the fuel from going stale as well as keep an additive in it to prevent algae growth.

Nat gas doesn’t go bad and is a constant supply. The big drawback is in a major catastrophe the gas company may shut off the gas supply to your area to avoid leaks and possible fire.

Propane is another fuel supply to look at you will just need a large enough tank to proved extended run time should you be on the genny for long time.

 

[ljhhontx]

If you're really worried to the point of being double redundant Generac makes a setup with a dual input manifold that lets you have propane backup to natural gas. I work for a gas company and we had a funeral home set one up to power their morgue cooling. I have worked for them for 30 years and have never seen a disaster in my area or any area my company serves that involved both utilities at once but it is available.

 

[Bretny]

Can you pump natural gas your self? Can you store many days of nat gas on site? Can you burn other things becids natural gas in a natural gas generator?
The awnser to all these are usualy no.

Generaly diesel generators are built better because there engines arnt lawnmower engines converted to run a different fuel. Dues to this diesel engines usualy last many more hours than natural gas. Diesel are not loud like some think.

I suggest you do alot of research on the difference between the two. There are pros and cons to both.

One pro to natural gas is the hands off type approach of the fuel supply, this can also be a negative.

One major pro to diesel is that you can own and store your own fuel. Diesel, kerosene and home heating oil can all be burned and usualy stations will have diesel long after they run out of gas.

I own a diesel, i start and run it on my house every time we change the clocks. A unloaded weekly test is almost useless to me.

 

[FJ 432]

In the event of a SHTF event public utilities are told to cut off natural gas. I wouldn't be concerned about this but maybe you are.

In most cases a smaller diesel generator (vs. the same size natural gas) can be used because they are more efficient.

Flip side to diesel is the EPA is coming down hard on diesel burning generators. Started in California and is rolling eastward with tougher regulations.

IMHO natural gas.

 

[alexb2000]

I have been kicking this around also. I am tending toward a tri-fuel Honda. I can use it on NG, but if that goes down I can run it off of a propane tank or regular gasoline without doing anything. The limiting factor is the output, which in case of a Honda is 7KW, so you'd have to watch your loads, but it would keep the house going.

 

[yeldogt]

I don't think we have ever lost NG .. ever ... in 100 years!

I would rather pay for a backup LNG tank vs having to store and manage fuel oil.

Fuel oil is fine if you are using it on the property and can combine .. think it's technically not allowed for tax reason .. but, farmers combine generators/tractors/buildings with off road.

Fuel oil does not last forever -- keeping it for a only a generator would be problematic.

 

[Toothaker]

Does your natural gas supply have the needed volume and pressure to support your natural gas generator? You will want to find out the generator's natural gas specifications and take that to your utility and have them confirm they can match those requirements.

A few years ago I worked on a large project that included installing a large generator at my (now former) employer's main location. We specified a natural gas generator, to avoid the diesel fuel management issues. However, the local gas utility couldn't provide adequate volume or pressure to supply the generator, so we went with diesel. That meant a large fuel tank, and managing it.

 

[b-boy]

I have a converted home generator. It runs on NG or gasoline. I did have to install a 3/4" gas line to make it run properly. 1/2" just wasn't cutting it.

 

[larry_g]

I would have to ask; Do you have any other use for diesel on your property or work? If you have some other way to use diesel that allows you to rotate the supply then diesel makes some sense. If you have natural gas on the property and that is supplied to the house then to me it would have the advantage. How often do you have power outages?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Chucktin]

We're putting in a whole house generator in the spring. Opting for Propane, big tank, no gas lines where we are. If we _buy_ the tank then we're able to buy Propane from whomever will deliver

 

[machsnell]

Natural gas would be my choice.

Cheaper. Price for diesel genset versus a natural gas genset is like ? Triple...

Yeah a diesel lasts longer but unless you need an extra 10k hours on your BACKUP generator then NG.

More convenient. Shutting off nat gas? Never heard of that ever in my area. Not sure if this is doomsdayers or it actually happens in parts of the country.

No gelling or hard cold start or additive to keep diesel fresh.

The only reason I was going to do diesel was because I dont have NG but I do have 500 gallon tank for furnace. So connect a line a boom.

I checked prices and decided to go propane and bury a tank.



All of this said I will probably continue to set my 7kw gasoline generator outside the door and run extension cords inside the house for the next 5 years at least. Just to run the wood stove fan and TV and intrernet and a few lights.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[TractorJeff]

Its not the DoomSayers, its reality!
Why would you run a back gen?
Snow knocked the wires down. Natural Gas stays on.
Rain Flooding knocked the wires down. Natural Gas may go off.
Tornado knocks the wires down. Natural Gas will probably get turned off to prevent leaks at damaged houses.
Hurricane / Storm Surge knocks the wires down. Natural Gas will probably get turned off to prevent leaks at damaged houses.
Gasoline gets rotated, Diesel gets rotated, Natural Gas goes to the front of the house, Propane tank sits out by the Shop.
Too Many Choices and Variables!

 

[Falcon67]

We are putting a generator on our building at work. We have big NG pipes that run into the building for the two pipe system boiler. After much discussion with the gas co, the generator people and others, we will be placing a diesel generator. The load would/could be too much even for the existing piping and we can guarantee diesel in the tank but not NG delivery.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Its not the DoomSayers, its reality!
Why would you run a back gen?
Snow knocked the wires down. Natural Gas stays on.
Rain Flooding knocked the wires down. Natural Gas may go off.
Tornado knocks the wires down. Natural Gas will probably get turned off to prevent leaks at damaged houses.
Hurricane / Storm Surge knocks the wires down. Natural Gas will probably get turned off to prevent leaks at damaged houses.

Don't forget earthquake and fire.

The thing with a diesel backup generator is you will need to setup a monthly run schedule to keep the fuel from going stale as well as keep an additive in it to prevent algae growth.

Monthly? I pretty routinely have no issue with diesel equipment in good shape after parking for a couple of years.

 

[SimS]

Another "pro" for diesel is that they are generally a 1800 RPM generator and can be quieter. The "con" for the diesel is that they are generally water cooled so there is the extra maintenance required for the cooling system. Price of the units is the main difference between the two.

SimS

 

[Bretny]

I wouldnt even consider a air cooler NG or propane generator. There generaly lawnmower engines made by briggs or kohler and you can get that "quality" for a while lot less in a portablr package.

Any one who has a generator know they want it to work and keep working in the worst situations. A fuel that is not kept on site, someone else owns and can be turned off with the push of a button is not an option to me. And we only loose power about once every 2 yrs. I can burn 2yr old diesel...i cant burn 2yr old gas.

Sandy and Irene cought me and a lot of people with there pants down...i chose to never let that happen again.

 

[reader2580]

If a disaster is big enough to knock out both power and natural gas what is the likelihood your home will be habitable and you will want to stay there?

If you’re trying to have electricity through a disaster that knocks out natural gas you’ll probably need to store a few hundred gallons of diesel. In a large scale disaster you likely won’t be able to diesel delivered for some time as medical, government, and utilities will get serviced first.

A diesel generator is nice to have if your power regularly goes out for a day or two, but for most of us the power doesn’t go out that often.

 

[Bretny]

If a disaster is big enough to knock out both power and natural gas what is the likelihood your home will be habitable and you will want to stay there?

If you’re trying to have electricity through a disaster that knocks out natural gas you’ll probably need to store a few hundred gallons of diesel. In a large scale disaster you likely won’t be able to diesel delivered for some time as medical, government, and utilities will get serviced first.

A diesel generator is nice to have if your power regularly goes out for a day or two, but for most of us the power doesn’t go out that often.

Having natural gas and electricity dosnt make a house livable. Not having it wouldnt make it not livable.

It could be something as simple as heavy wet snow when the trees still have leaf on. Are you going to wait until you can hire someone to cut up all the branches or go out there and take control of your own property?

If your one of those people who go book a hotel when a storm is coming theres really no need for a generator. If your reliant on municipalities for much theres no reason to own a generator.

Personaly i have cut up trees in the road and plowed my road when i needed to get out.

 

[Bretny]

Nat gas does go out. Theres a shortage in British Columbia right now that could last all winter.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/vancou...t-all-winter-households-urged-to-conserve/amp

 

[reader2580]

Having natural gas and electricity dosnt make a house livable. Not having it wouldnt make it not livable.

It could be something as simple as heavy wet snow when the trees still have leaf on. Are you going to wait until you can hire someone to cut up all the branches or go out there and take control of your own property?

I have a natural gas standby generator. I figure if I lose both electricity and natural gas that there is a pretty big disaster. It didn’t make sense to me to spend three times as much on a generator plus more for a large tank just to prepare against losing both electricity and natural gas. I guess I have been lucky and have never lived anywhere that natural gas went out.

I have three chainsaws and do my own tree clearing.

 

[346ci]

I've been looking for a stand by since Florence kicked our azz. The cheapest option I have found is a Onan/Cummins LPG 20Kw at $4300(comes with 200amp ATS) plus plumbing gas line and wiring, I estimate another $2k-$3k for that.

We have a few diesels and always have it on hand with a 100 gallon storage tank. The cheapest new diesel I can find is a 15kw at $10,900 with no ATS.

I know the diesel will be more efficient, run slower(less noise), and I won't have to worry about the propane truck not coming by. Its just the initial costs that is keeping me from buying.

I spoke to my electrician about a towable diesel as I could get one those used, the way it would have to be wired would make it stationary..

 

[Falcon67]

Reminder that in older NG installations with pipes in the ground for years, you can lose NG service just as easy as water with ground heave or just random delivery pipe damage.

>Its just the initial costs that is keeping me from buying.

Start watching auction houses like Richie Bros. We see discounted generators with low hours offered all the time. At work we'll buy new but I recently saved about $800 on a used Honda EU7000is bidding at Richie. Had 120 hours on it.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

If a disaster is big enough to knock out both power and natural gas what is the likelihood your home will be habitable and you will want to stay there?

I figure if I can't drive somewhere else, I'll want power even more, and my camper being parked outside will probably be fine.

 

[jeepxj]

You guys are acting like they turn off NG county by county. During a disaster they will kick it off in the most impacted grid areas. Same way they do with the electrical grid.

 

[Showkey]

Nat gas does go out. Theres a shortage in British Columbia right now that could last all winter.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/vancou...t-all-winter-households-urged-to-conserve/amp

Considering that over half the NG is being burned off at the well..........this is an isolated delivery problem .........similar to the Canada propane line issue about 5-6 years back. That allowed them to charge $5 a gallon for propane

 

[yeldogt]

I lived through sandy -- Hugo many years ago .. NG was still flowing. But who cared .. I was out of there. The whole idea that managing oil for x years is preferable to NG is crazy in all the areas I have lived. Where utilities have in the past or have announced they may cut your NG -- that 's a different story. But, the solution is a Tank of Propane or LNG .. not diesel.

The diesels all tend to be water cooled -- just as the propane/ NG units above 22k. They run at 1800 rpm ... Most people want back up power for short duration and temp power for the occasional major storm that takes thing down for a couple of days. The vast majority go with the air cooled units and are very happy with them. The lifetime usage is in the hundreds of hours not thousands

 

[TractorJeff]

There are a lot of East Coast people that still heat their homes with "Home Heating Oil" which is delivered out of the same Tanker that fills the Farmers Fuel Tank down the road. Hence, a constant turned over fresh supply of fuel!

 

[yeldogt]

There are a lot of East Coast people that still heat their homes with "Home Heating Oil" which is delivered out of the same Tanker that fills the Farmers Fuel Tank down the road. Hence, a constant turned over fresh supply of fuel!

Heating oil is typically not the same .. the specification for motor fuels is higher. I know people try and interchange ...but you have to know where it's coming from and what's the intended use.

the quality of the fuel and additives are higher with fuel intended for engines

 

[txvwnut]

Don't forget earthquake and fire.


Monthly? I pretty routinely have no issue with diesel equipment in good shape after parking for a couple of years.

We’ve had diesel go bad after a couple of weeks. The generators I manage are backup for airfield lighting and infrastructure so a monthly run is a must, it’s also good practice for your home generator or any generator to boil any moisture that may develop in the oil and to keep the fuel agitated in the case of a diesel powered generator.

 

[MikeF2316]

When we had the ice storm around here 4 or 5 years ago, natural gas never went out, but most people lost electricity for 1-3 days. At that time, diesel delivery was 1 week.

We've only lost natural gas when construction crews have cut a gas line on the street. But we're not prone the earthquakes around here.

 

[ljhhontx]

I've worked in the natural gas business for 30 years and can tell you, no sane operator is going to turn off a system due to flooding or anything short of a catastrophic damage to the system. To restart a system after shutdown is so labor intensive we avoid it at all cost. Lines have to be purged of air, tested and each customer has to be turned off and back on. The only time I have ever seen it happen is when contaminates (propane) was discovered in a system due to use of a tanker as backup gas during a maintenance operation. It took us over 5 days to restore service to 1500 customers.. Leaving the system on and working leakage as it is found is a far better method and is the industry standard.

 

[dan360]

Easy one for me. Natgas is the way to go. Initial cost will be more to run gas line to unit but fuel cost will be at least a third less. Burns cleaner , less maintenance and constant fuel supply without the worry of running low during an outage. I wish I had gas at my house. I will have to go with propane.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Relying on a utility to supply resources necessary to supply backup power in the event of loss of another utility is a recipe for not so good.

Earthquakes and many other natural occurrences can shut that natural gas supply off pretty quick. Now you have a brick.

Diesel, for all the supposed cons, is self sufficient and a properly prepped and maintained bulk fuel supply will let it run as long as it needs to.

Propane would be my next preferred fuel choice.

 

[alexb2000]

Back in Feb. 2011 at my place in Taos the state of New Mexico (through incompetence) had to shut down natural gas to all of Northern NM during 10 degree temps. That of course caused a run on electric heaters, which shut down the power grid. This went on for over a week, because as the prior poster said they couldn't just turn on the NG. They had to have the gas company and every plumber in the area check each house first. My little honda 2K gen and fuel from my RV kept the essentials going and with a chord of dry wood it was fine.

Don't believe it can't happen.

That's why I'm going with a tri-fuel generator so you can use whatever fuel is available.

 

[reader2580]

Generac sells a 20 KW diesel generator for $12,000. It has a 34 gallon tank that lasts a whole 29 hours! It is more than I want to spend, but if you lose power a lot, or want to have power without natural gas or propane this is the way to go. Personally, I would not want to have hundreds of gallons of diesel on hand. Look at the liability issues for fuel oil leaks.

My bigger concern if I lose natural gas would be heat in the winter.

 

[jeepxj]

I've worked in the natural gas business for 30 years and can tell you, no sane operator is going to turn off a system due to flooding or anything short of a catastrophic damage to the system. To restart a system after shutdown is so labor intensive we avoid it at all cost. Lines have to be purged of air, tested and each customer has to be turned off and back on. The only time I have ever seen it happen is when contaminates (propane) was discovered in a system due to use of a tanker as backup gas during a maintenance operation. It took us over 5 days to restore service to 1500 customers.. Leaving the system on and working leakage as it is found is a far better method and is the industry standard.

no no no you're so wrong. this guy online said they turn natural gas off all the time during events you would really want a generator running for.