Thanks, it was a lucky find. Lol at speedySpeedy
Congrats, yet another nice find. BTW, I am thinking we need to change your moniker from Smitty to Speedy
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The VISES of Garage Journal
- Thread starter mjozefow
- Start date
KMScott
Well-known member
I have seen this issue before, Wilton does not cast a lip over the washer aea to keep metal and grinding dust out of the collar area. If this case hardened washer is wore then most likely the spindle groove is wore too. Depending on how far you want to go in your repair and having flat surfaces to wear on you might need a new spindle or have a machine shop weld up your groove and re cut the groove width to .015 over the washer thickness and .005 above the pocket depth, I added a cuple pic's on this type of repair. I have fixed this before on my Wiltons. Worse case is having to re machine the Dynamic pocket and that takes some work. autopts can help you with a new spindle and another case hardened 1/4 thick washer or I can help you with a Tool Steel washer made from A-2. Check your spindle groove width and your Dynamic pocket where the spindle seats to make your decision.
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Unquestionably Bonney Vise & Tool. I’ve got the 2” version - No.114. But mine is missing the original clamp screw and whatever washer keeps the main screw from backing out.
Can you take a photo of that? Where the screw comes through the back of the dynamic? I also wonder if there might be a spring in there?
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Definitely don't want to jerry rig it. Don't know if it has backlash/slop. The pins weren't in correctly so when I got home I immediately took it apart to find out why. That's when I found the new casing nut wasn't drilled for the pins. First order of business (tonight) is to drill holes for them. Plan is to separate the rear part of the body, slide the casing nut in it and use a split collar around the casing to hold the nut firmly in the body, then drill holes for the pins.
I saw the galling on the retaining washer but really didn't give it much thought at that moment, was more interested in getting to the reason the pins weren't in place. I didn't give the spindle a second look, I hope the groove isn't worn out. I did glance at the dynamic pocket, there was some old hardened grease on it that I gave a courtesy wipe before moving on. I'll have to inspect it closer.
I hope this doesn't turn into a major deal. I was hesitant to buy it when he told me the threads on the original casing nut stripped, but the overall condition of the vise changed my mind. Paid $375 for it, really don't want to throw hundreds more at it. After drilling the holes I'll slap it back together and see what I have.
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Well Dr Scott, you nailed it. The pictures tell the story. It has a half turn slop in both directions. I'll buy a new retainer washer and deal with it as is for now.
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Fierljeppen
Well-known member
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- Jan 26, 2018
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- 1,159
I saw your frustrated response before you edited it out. It's not as bad as you think. The retainer isn't that much $ and KMScott can talk you through the best scenario for a repair.
Wilton 500S's are selling from $450-$600 on eBay before shipping. At worst, you can repair it and keep it or sell it and break-even.
We've all had buyers remorse at some point in time. But around here, the rule is to keep your head up and go forward.
va.grouseman
Well-known member
It's just amazing what a dab of fresh grease can prevent, but it comes as no surprise what'll take place without it.
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RagTopTA
Well-known member
Heres mine, it looks to have a stationary washer and that's it. No spring in mine. Heres a good look at the bottom clamping screw as well. Do the catalogs show any Big Bonney vises with the triangle slide design?
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akasrick
Well-known member
I edited my post on the vise info page with a link from the spreadsheet,
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7151314&postcount=395
no spring here either
akasrick
The 1914 catalog shows the Champion vises ranging from 1-1/2” to 3” jaws in clamp-on style, and 2” to 3” jaws with swivel bases. (I mistyped my 2” in earlier post - it’s a No.114, not “No.14.”)
No.112 is listed at 1-1/2”, No.113 is 1-3/4”; is there a punched number on the top of the anvil portion? The three catalogs I’ve seen do not list a 1-5/8” size, though I don’t doubt that could be the actual dimension.
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I was mad at myself and frustrated for sure. Had the laptop in the garage so when posting the pics I was really feeling the sting. Should have allowed some cool down time and gave things more thought before typing. Like you say - head up, move on.
RagTopTA
Well-known member
oh I haven't noticed but will look tonight. Mine was a quick measurement It may be closer to 1 1/2 We will see tonight. love the design of these.
gman007
Well-known member
Lonstar I send you a PM with some info, you might want to check it out.
chrisnazzy
Well-known member
MissileBear
Well-known member
What do you guys think of this?
I let this one go (it was gone within an hour anyways). I hesitated because:
1. Missing a jaw, which is always a red flag.
2. Dynamic jaw is seized, which are a real PITA with Wiltons
3. It's very rusty and muddy...it's been outside a while (look at back of static jaw and near top of jaws)
4. The screw unthreads easily it says....maybe busted nut/lots of play/missing horseshoe washer/screws pulled out from trying to force it open?
Worth the $300 in your opinion? I know these sell for a lot of $$$$ when cleaned up, but it'll need a set of jaws and preferably a swivel base. Adding in the time to screw around cleaning & painting, I can't see much profit in selling at all. My business is not flipping vises, but I get antsy when I see the bigguns offered...like some part of me screams out "don't let it get away!!!"
@MayerMR - this is the typical stuff we see up here in the NE. Not the vise paradise you think it is...not like Smitty's area.
I let this one go (it was gone within an hour anyways). I hesitated because:
1. Missing a jaw, which is always a red flag.
2. Dynamic jaw is seized, which are a real PITA with Wiltons
3. It's very rusty and muddy...it's been outside a while (look at back of static jaw and near top of jaws)
4. The screw unthreads easily it says....maybe busted nut/lots of play/missing horseshoe washer/screws pulled out from trying to force it open?
Worth the $300 in your opinion? I know these sell for a lot of $$$$ when cleaned up, but it'll need a set of jaws and preferably a swivel base. Adding in the time to screw around cleaning & painting, I can't see much profit in selling at all. My business is not flipping vises, but I get antsy when I see the bigguns offered...like some part of me screams out "don't let it get away!!!"
@MayerMR - this is the typical stuff we see up here in the NE. Not the vise paradise you think it is...not like Smitty's area.
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MissileBear
Well-known member
Neg - def aftermarket. Looks like some machinery handle re-threaded?
Here's a DS Simplex Utility 500 I grabbed a few years back. Much nicer than the similar Craftsman/Columbian models. Notice the original lockdown.
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gman007
Well-known member
Chris
It is admittedly funky and hilarious.
Now given that potentially it could constrain the work space and it looks stupid, if I was to guess, it looks to me to be a redneck ingenuity piece. For goodness sake the "swivel" arm is heftier than the main screw arm
Ststephen7
Well-known member
I just saw a local sale of a Parker No. 4 vise.
I know the price is high, and... this is a VERY old (and seemingly rare since a google search showed only 1 hit) vise.
One pic shows the jaws at around 5.25", no weight listed, and the handle has a nice bend.
It is listed at $175 however open to offers.
I would most likely resell it after restoration... and I don't know if I'll get what I put into it...
Opinions?
Thanks,
Steve
I know the price is high, and... this is a VERY old (and seemingly rare since a google search showed only 1 hit) vise.
One pic shows the jaws at around 5.25", no weight listed, and the handle has a nice bend.
It is listed at $175 however open to offers.
I would most likely resell it after restoration... and I don't know if I'll get what I put into it...
Opinions?
Thanks,
Steve
CrotalusAtrox
Well-known member
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Crot, one sold like it on eBay yesterday for $462.77, and $10.50 shipping.---Hope you got a better deal than that.
gman007
Got it, thanks. Went to eBay and ordered a replacement collar/washer today. I'll see how much slop it takes out and go from there.
The company I work for has a small one man machine shop, and we send work out to other machine shops in the area. Wondering if it would do any good to see if I can get a wider collar made. I don't know what to do about the dynamic pocket, looking for advise on that.
Thanks again.
This popped up on the board for $250 today. I was the first to call, it was on the board for nine minutes. By the time I got there he said he had at leas 10 calls from buyers. It’s in beautiful condition with barely a hammer mark on it.
Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app
Nice! This is the kind of deal I was holding out for but they just don't pop up that often around here. Either that or there's a Smitty II on the east coast snapping them up before I even see the ad.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
Lone, the collar is to restrain the screw on removal, not take the clamp lost. this is why the galling happened inside. what you need is to clean up the two faces, then add a shim to get the screw head so the gap is close for retraction.
MayerMR
Well-known member
Agreed, a real thin shim and some grease and you don't have anything to be upset about any more
Sorry, not quite understanding what you're saying.
Both sides of the collar have galling. By inside, do you mean the galling on the dynamic pocket?
"Clean up the two faces" - the face (inside) of the spindle and the pocket? Then shim the spindle groove on the inside side of the new collar?
Both sides of the collar have galling. By inside, do you mean the galling on the dynamic pocket?
"Clean up the two faces" - the face (inside) of the spindle and the pocket? Then shim the spindle groove on the inside side of the new collar?
MayerMR
Well-known member
I can't speak for Outlaw, but what I suggest is just put some grease, and appropriately thin shim washer in the spindle pocket, more grease on the shim, then slide the main screw in. Then slide in the retaining collar affix the screws, and you're on your way.
The galling isn't good, but it's not like you're dealing with a high-rpm application. Some grease and a shim and you've got another lifetime of use out of that vise.
dkroth
Well-known member
Missile,
I was real tempted to call on that one. I think it was up for 5 hours when I saw it but gone the next day. Regardless...
Yeah, it had issues, but I've been waiting on a larger Wilton machinist for a long time. I thought it would be a cool project in the $200 range and may even say f-it and pay the guy 300 depending on what it looked like in person.
Jaws will be $100+ and a swivel base $120, but it will be near new when you're done with it, except...
The edges of the castings look well-rounded up on the top of the jaws. If they're nice and crisp they'll clean up and look like new. When they're rounded rounded and worn like that, well, then it just looks like an old vise with fresh paint.
I was real tempted to call on that one. I think it was up for 5 hours when I saw it but gone the next day. Regardless...
Yeah, it had issues, but I've been waiting on a larger Wilton machinist for a long time. I thought it would be a cool project in the $200 range and may even say f-it and pay the guy 300 depending on what it looked like in person.
Jaws will be $100+ and a swivel base $120, but it will be near new when you're done with it, except...
The edges of the castings look well-rounded up on the top of the jaws. If they're nice and crisp they'll clean up and look like new. When they're rounded rounded and worn like that, well, then it just looks like an old vise with fresh paint.
That's what I was thinking too, and what I meant by I'll put the new collar on and see what I have. I realize my vise doesn't use a thrust washer, but I was going to start with that as a shim against the spindle pocket....and grease the hell out of it. Works with ball joints
gman007
Well-known member
Lone
That is one of my two daily user vises and it is a very good vise. As for price it is worth a lot more than you think. A 974 in good shape on eBay could sell for $200-275 (based on what I have seen).
KMScott
Well-known member
That Parker is a old one, just love the Meatball end. Building a handle is not to difficult if you have access to a lathe. I believe the weight to be around 80 + lbs. Where can you buy a over size 5" vise for $175. You will not make much money on a resale in my opinion since replacing the handle and cleaning up the jaws will take some time. The big chamfer on the base will discourage some buyers unless you remove some of the mass.
This 6" Parker was in as good as shape as your 5-3/8 vise but I replaced the jaws and replaced the handle. I sold it for $650 and purchased mine for $125 in 2012. If that vise was close to me I would be happy to purchase it for that amount if no surprises on the other side not shown.
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KMScott
Well-known member
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Smells like an Asian import to me too Dr Scott, but I could be wrong. possibly from across the Atlantic? 
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Lonstar, I've had a 974 sitting on the corner of my bench for about 30 years. I have a LOT of Vises but no real inclination to replace it. Its taken everything I threw at it, and I've ripped that bench off the wall it's attached to a couple of times, so I know its strong...
Conversely I've sold every Wilton but one I've come across, with two more waiting for refurbish before going on the block. that will be 7 I've sold once these 2 are gone.
The only Wilton I've kept is the baby. If I find a toddler I might keep that one but for Me, Wilton's are over priced and that makes them good money makers generally.
Back to your galled question. True up both sides of the head that are galled. If you can, true up the pocket on the D jaw.
Measure the gap between the U clip mounting surface and the bottom of the pocket.
The shim plus that shoulder needs to be close to the depth of the pocket. if a bit over flat sand the spacer if you don't have a lathe. The snugger you make it the less back lash you will finish with.
If you can't clean up the pocket galling place the shim and measure that depth, as best you cam=n, then see of the shoulder of the main screw head is that gap. adjust as above, It just won't be as precise as if you can clean up the pocket.
Conversely I've sold every Wilton but one I've come across, with two more waiting for refurbish before going on the block. that will be 7 I've sold once these 2 are gone.
The only Wilton I've kept is the baby. If I find a toddler I might keep that one but for Me, Wilton's are over priced and that makes them good money makers generally.
Back to your galled question. True up both sides of the head that are galled. If you can, true up the pocket on the D jaw.
Measure the gap between the U clip mounting surface and the bottom of the pocket.
The shim plus that shoulder needs to be close to the depth of the pocket. if a bit over flat sand the spacer if you don't have a lathe. The snugger you make it the less back lash you will finish with.
If you can't clean up the pocket galling place the shim and measure that depth, as best you cam=n, then see of the shoulder of the main screw head is that gap. adjust as above, It just won't be as precise as if you can clean up the pocket.
va.grouseman
Well-known member
KM, looks like a Duracraft that's gone into anaphylactic shock.---But it's right novel.
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