Grinding wheel balancing?

[Zeke]

I did a search, honestly, and I didn't find what I'm looking for. I know this has been discussed. Maybe my direct title will help others in the future.

So, after watching a dozen YouTubes on balancing including drilling out the sides of a grinding wheel (Yikes!) I would like to ask, what is the best way and what is the best product sold to achieve a perfectly balanced bench grinder?

 

[fsae0607]

I would not recommend drilling into a wheel!

I've had luck in the past loosening the wheel hold-down and "re-clocking" the wheel with respect to the opposing wheel. Seems to cancel out any imbalances.

Then again, I haven't had many imbalance issues with good wheels. If your wheel is that out of balance, maybe get a new one, considering how inexpensive they are.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Dress the wheel.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Dress the wheel.

^This^. If you haven't dressed the wheel yet, I would start there.

Definitely don't drill holes in a grinding wheel or it will become a grenade.

 

[rlitman]

I start by making sure the wheel is centered on the shaft. If the fit is loose, I'll wrap some masking tape around the shaft to make up for the difference.

Then, I'll dress the wheel for the first time with a diamond. Just go slow, and knock off any high spots. You're basically lathe turning the wheel to your rotor.. If the wheel is still out of balance, it is because of an internal variation in density, and it's trash.

 

[1Garageman]

I am tempted to "Dress the wheel" this way, but it looks a little scary.

 

[jonshonda]

Lots of info in the craftsman block grinder thread. Scroll down the bottom of the first post for everything you need to know about grinders.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249539

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Hm, I just bought an old grinding wheel sharpener at the flea market for $2. It has hooks to keep it square to the wheel.

 

[jonshonda]

These adapter bushings are also really supposed to help.

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/97/6196/Raptor-R3X-Grinding-Wheel-Bushing-2-Piece-Set

 

[exmaxima1]

I am tempted to "Dress the wheel" this way, but it looks a little scary.

That dresses the wheel but doesn't true it. You really need a single point diamond on a post and slowly run across the face like you were using a wood lathe. There are fixtures for this that run across your tool rests. I made my own, as they are fairly simple.

Assuming the wheels were first shimmed to remove any side-to-side wobble, the trued wheels should run pretty smooth.

 

[Zeke]

Wheels are diamond dressed and there is no chatter when sharpening a tool. Just a little vibration which I know can be corrected.

You know, you guys treat other posters like they are children. I stated exactly "Yikes" about drilling a wheel yet 2 of you chided me. And then there's the obvious, truing the wheel. Do you think for a ******* moment that after I said I chased down everything YT has to offer that I didn't a) start with a quality wheel and, b) didn't do the basics?

Is there an intellectual part of this GJ site where I can talk to adults? Oh well, speaking of intellectual, it's pretty damn hard to sort out the wheat from the chaff when it comes to YT. Talk about a bunch of idiots for the most part, don't be them, OK?

Back to serious, I found a product called Oneway on the Amazon. And that's the only offering on the biggest shopping site in the world that I could find.

These adapter bushings are also really supposed to help.

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/97/6196/Raptor-R3X-Grinding-Wheel-Bushing-2-Piece-Set

That's a start. Thanks.

 

[woody 73]

Zeke oneway makes some very nice products you will not be disappointed.

 

[exmaxima1]

You know, you guys treat other posters like they are children. I stated exactly "Yikes" about drilling a wheel yet 2 of you chided me. And then there's the obvious, truing the wheel. Do you think for a ******* moment that after I said I chased down everything YT has to offer that I didn't a) start with a quality wheel and, b) didn't do the basics?

Is there an intellectual part of this GJ site where I can talk to adults? Oh well, speaking of intellectual, it's pretty damn hard to sort out the wheat from the chaff when it comes to YT. Talk about a bunch of idiots for the most part, don't be them, OK?.

Rather than being a ****, why not post what you actually DID before you post a request for help? Diamond dressing is not the same as truing, so it was not obvious that you already tried that. If you are so smart, you shouldn't be asking for help...

 

[Zeke]

Rather than being a ****, why not post what you actually DID before you post a request for help? Diamond dressing is not the same as truing, so it was not obvious that you already tried that. If you are so smart, you shouldn't be asking for help...

Thank you. You are very correct.

BTW, I have seen a product that has a few bearings in a ring or race that will dynamically balance anything from a tire (large version) to a 6" grinding wheel (small version). When I started this thread I had hoped that someone had seen this and knew what it was called, if there was a product/brand name available.

I'll keep looking because I know this system works.

Edit: Centramatic is a start.

 

[larry4406]

Zeke - I've no experience with this but laud your efforts to find a succinct solution.

I thought this solution was clever, but appears to be home made. Its the ball bearing in a race solution you mention. He may be a member here as his moniker is familiar. Looks like he ultimately settled on a pointed washer solution.
http://www.nwnative.us/Grant/shop articles/sharpTable/balancing/

Update:
Sure enough - Metalmagpie is a poster here and I learned of his post here as well!
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336862

 

[Zeke]

That's the one I saw! And I knew if I brought this up someone besides the clowns would chime in. Thank YOU!!

 

[PittsburghTim]

Zeke, I purchased a few sets of spherical washers that I purchased for CBN grinding wheels I use to sharpen wood lathe tools. They were amazing in the amount of improvement they made. They help keep the alignment between the wheel and the grinder's shaft. This is common on import grinders like the Rikon Slow Speed grinder and the Porter-Cable grinder that I use.

I would rather have a solid, american made grinder but find that most available on Craig's list are way overpriced, beat to hell, or both.

 

[PittsburghTim]

Here is the name of the site where I purchased the spherical washers.

woodturnerswonders.com

 

[Zeke]

Zeke, I purchased a few sets of spherical washers that I purchased for CBN grinding wheels I use to sharpen wood lathe tools. They were amazing in the amount of improvement they made. They help keep the alignment between the wheel and the grinder's shaft. This is common on import grinders like the Rikon Slow Speed grinder and the Porter-Cable grinder that I use.

I would rather have a solid, american made grinder but find that most available on Craig's list are way overpriced, beat to hell, or both.

I'm using an older Baldor. I have another real oldie that runs pretty damn smooth and I think it's a brushed motor that I can slow down with a controller.

Actually they are both good enough as the saying goes, but one that would run on the bench and other than a slight motor noise not even be noticeable is where I'm headed. Guys that own surface grinding machines are the ones most interested in this.

 

[LXCam]

Is there an intellectual part of this GJ site where I can talk to adults? .

.

Certainly. Here's how I dress my wheels





Lol sorry bud but I figured you needed either a laugh or at least a good face palm. But to solve your issue I got nothing other then a perfectly trued / mandrel if that's possible.

 

[lilredex]

Have always been able to smooth mine out by dialing them in a quarter turn at a time. And mine have never been trued (in forty years). You might play around with some added washers with oval shaped holes, a lot easier than MMP's solution.

 

[tripplejl]

I have a couple of the one way balancing systems. They work well. A bit of fidgeting to get your wheel balanced but once done it makes a tremendous difference.

 

[larry4406]

That's the one I saw! And I knew if I brought this up someone besides the clowns would chime in. Thank YOU!!

Welcome Zeke.

I bookmarked it years ago and your question brought it to light, long forgotten . The pointed washer method and springs seems pretty straight forward. Keep us posted on what your solution is.

Kudo’s to the author of the link.

-larry

 

[Movin/on]

Hope this won't be deemed as a Hi-Jack but here is my dilemma, my new 10" Jet grinder when I first started it has a runout on the right side shaft. I'd stored it for about 5 years before assembling it (now 10 years ago) and found a minor runout. So I just put it away. Now this thread made me wonder if I could just dress/balance the wheel to counteract the runout? (Maybe 10/1000) It's not a lot but I've never had the idea to try balancing the wheel for the safety issue. I've got a Dayton 8" that I use instead.

Your ideas?

Movin/on

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

You know, you guys treat other posters like they are children. I stated exactly "Yikes" about drilling a wheel yet 2 of you chided me. And then there's the obvious, truing the wheel. Do you think for a ******* moment that after I said I chased down everything YT has to offer that I didn't a) start with a quality wheel and, b) didn't do the basics?

No offense, but when your question comes off as "basic", you get "basic" answers. Also, hundreds of people might read this thread, and all it takes is one guy that misses your "yikes!" and thinks it's okay to start drilling holes in his grinding wheel. You might think you're being clever, but the kid who doesn't know better could really f himself up. In school I watched all kinds of dumb **** on the grinders, even after people were given formal training.

 

[sc3013]

Having been to bough the Norton and Cincinnati grinding wheel factory. I must say I never saw them ever lighten the heave side. What I saw was to inject a solution into the light side that setup or dried. You could see the round discoloration where it was placed. It would be close to the center bore. We could balance our wheels static with weights in the hub and also the grinders had a ball system in the spendel. Our wheels were 36x4x12bore.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Wheels are diamond dressed and there is no chatter when sharpening a tool. Just a little vibration which I know can be corrected.

You know, you guys treat other posters like they are children. I stated exactly "Yikes" about drilling a wheel yet 2 of you chided me. And then there's the obvious, truing the wheel. Do you think for a ******* moment that after I said I chased down everything YT has to offer that I didn't a) start with a quality wheel and, b) didn't do the basics?

Is there an intellectual part of this GJ site where I can talk to adults? Oh well, speaking of intellectual, it's pretty damn hard to sort out the wheat from the chaff when it comes to YT. Talk about a bunch of idiots for the most part, don't be them, OK?

Back to serious, I found a product called Oneway on the Amazon. And that's the only offering on the biggest shopping site in the world that I could find.


That's a start. Thanks.

I'm sorry I didn't give your YouTube technical education the credit it supposedly deserves.

 

[like2wheel]

I remember seeing a thread (or article?) about balancing grinding wheels with 2 washers shaped with points on them. Think of the silhouette a single scoop ice cream cone would make. You start with both points together, then move them apart a little at a time until the wheel runs smooth.

I know I saved or bookmarked it somewhere, but can't find it now.

Edit:
Found it

http://www.nwnative.us/Grant/shop articles/sharpTable/balancing/




.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

OP, you have to keep in mind that asking questions on a public forum is like asking a question at the bar. 1/2 of the people have no idea WTF you’re talking about but will spout off some kind of answer anyway. Then you get the ones who reply just so they can tell a story “so and so did this or that and cut his whole arm off and there was blood everywhere!”. It gets annoying when you have to sort thru all the ******** for that one post or 2 from the person(s) that knows what theyre talking about and give you a simple to the point answer.

It would be cool if there was a subforum for serious questions only

 

[American Locomotive]

IMO, a properly trued and dressed wheel should not be noticeably out of balance. None of our precision surface grinders at work have goofy balance rings or washers on the wheels. A lot of home shop dudes seem to think that if it doesn't vibrate without the wheels, the problem isn't their grinder and must be the wheels.

That simply isn't true. Many, many grinders have axial and radial run out. A very slight shaft bend (just a thou would be enough!) can cause axial and radial runout, a slightly loose fitting wheel can cause excessive radial runout, and bent/worn washers that support the ends of the wheel can cause axial runout. "It's a Baldor!" doesn't mean jack if the thing has been dropped at some point in its life or some gorilla accidentally rammed a 20 pound chunk of steel into a wheel.

Get the dial indicators out and verify your grinder is actually running true before you start sticking bandaids onto the wheels.

Also, you asked a very basic question, said nothing about things you've attempted, and never said you weren't going to drill holes ("Yikes!" may just mean you're apprehensive about it). Not a single person here chided you, berated you or insulted you in any possible way. They gave you the best answers they could with the very limited information you provided.

 

[rlitman]

I remember seeing a thread (or article?) about balancing grinding wheels with 2 washers shaped with points on them. Think of the silhouette a single scoop ice cream cone would make. You start with both points together, then move them apart a little at a time until the wheel runs smooth.

I know I saved or bookmarked it somewhere, but can't find it now.

Edit:
Found it

http://www.nwnative.us/Grant/shop articles/sharpTable/balancing/




.

The larger the diameter of wheel, the larger the forces are when it gets out of balance. But in most cases when it comes to grinding wheels, I find that the issue is still more a matter of centering and truing than of a true balance problem, and as such, a dynamic balancer attachment only masks the issue.

I have seen larger angle grinders come with dynamic balancing hubs, in an effort to reduce vibration on the operator's hands. It's a good thought, but every time I've had a problem with an angle grinder's vibration, it has been because a cheap wheel's hub has egged out, causing it to run off center.

And if centering is the problem, then simply using teardrop weights to balance a wheel on a balancing shaft will not help the issue when the shaft has a loose fit, because the wheel will be at a different center when mounted on the grinder.

IMO, a properly trued and dressed wheel should not be noticeably out of balance. None of our precision surface grinders at work have goofy balance rings or washers on the wheels. A lot of home shop dudes seem to think that if it doesn't vibrate without the wheels, the problem isn't their grinder and must be the wheels.

That simply isn't true. Many, many grinders have axial and radial run out. A very slight shaft bend (just a thou would be enough!) can cause axial and radial runout, a slightly loose fitting wheel can cause excessive radial runout, and bent/worn washers that support the ends of the wheel can cause axial runout. "It's a Baldor!" doesn't mean jack if the thing has been dropped at some point in its life or some gorilla accidentally rammed a 20 pound chunk of steel into a wheel.

Get the dial indicators out and verify your grinder is actually running true before you start sticking bandaids onto the wheels...

Good point. The shaft may not have enough weight to cause much vibration, without a wheel wobbling on the end of it. Without the wheel, you're really only checking the balance of the rotor and the condition of the bearings.

 

[Zeke]

No offense, but when your question comes off as "basic", you get "basic" answers. Also, hundreds of people might read this thread, and all it takes is one guy that misses your "yikes!" and thinks it's okay to start drilling holes in his grinding wheel. You might think you're being clever, but the kid who doesn't know better could really f himself up. In school I watched all kinds of dumb **** on the grinders, even after people were given formal training.

Good thoughts.

I'm sorry I didn't give your YouTube technical education the credit it supposedly deserves.

Get bent. BWAHAHAHAHA

I can and do sharpen anything. been hand sharpening bits for 50 years because I had no fixtures. You want to see and feel total smoothness when you have a 5/32nds bit on the stone.

I apologize, I forgot this is the GJ, not a machinist forum.