Snap on will “reclaim” my tool box?!??

[JVB]

Snap on will “reclaim” my tool box?!?

I am in need of a tool cart. I like the atd and sunex style cart. Around 500-650$ new.

But at the same time I am finding many of the Snap on krsc32 (32” wide) and a few krsc42 (40” wide ) carts around 500-700$

One specifically is like new in perfect shape and I always hear about liens on the box and them not being paid off. I decide to call Snap on to see what their take is on the matter. They transfer me to finance and very easy no questions ask they tell me there is a lien on the box but we cannot give any further information.

I ask if I was to purchase this box would there be an issue. They tell me if it was ever happened upon by them or a dealer that they would reclaim it. Also if I was to need parts under warranty it could be denied as there is a lien not in my name on it.

Now as other threads have gone , some people would not touch the box and some say it is between the original buyer and Snap on.


With that being said how do I know if his intentions are to sell it to pay off his bill or if he is going to let it ride. I do not know either way. In this case is it even worth the hassle to purchase a used cart of “higher” value or do you just get the new cheaper cart with no worries.


I do not have a local dealer... That is another story ( no one will return a call , seems that they only want big businesses and keep their current route around me ) . I doubt they will ever come across the cart after I buy it but I do have a guilty conscience and not sure I could buy one knowing it is still owed on.

What is your take and or experience?

 

[Gmonkee]

The guy is out to sell and eventually will. To you or someone else.

What he does with his debt is his business to resolve.

Check your moral compass. Ask the seller what his intentions are.

Anything from a no way to a his debt, his problem could result. SO 'loses' lots of boxes that way and recovers some of them.
If an at home box and not in a shop with route stops it could be decades to that serial number ever surfacing to be detected.

Me? I make my own tool storage and would not consider spending 700 bucks on a tin box.

I also would let this one pass just on principle.

 

[Skin]

Without getting into morals there are some things to keep in mind. First is that customer service has never asked me for a serial while looking for parts. The second is that private party sales aren't traceable.

Point is I wouldn't worry about it. From snap-ons end I'm very sure they'd rather have the cash for their overpriced steel container.

 

[JVB]

Without getting into morals there are some things to keep in mind. First is that customer service has never asked me for a serial while looking for parts. The second is that private party sales aren't traceable.

Point is I wouldn't worry about it. From snap-ons end I'm very sure they'd rather have the cash for their overpriced steel container.

I hear you there on overpriced. I would not even even consider one at a new price as i can not justify the price just working on my own projects. It is priced in line with the atd and sunex is the reason I am considering them as an option.

 

[CJM8515]

debt lies between snap on and the original purchaser..

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Is it snapon corporate or the individual dealer that absorbs the loss?

And does that matter to you?

 

[JVB]

debt lies between snap on and the original purchaser..

That was my thinking. However, they told me it would be reclaimed if they ever come across it.

I understand with a vehicle and a house as collateral to a loan but on a tool box seems that a credit card would be the better option for them. I would think it would hold a buyer to more accountability but I do not know anything about their financing.

 

[Skin]

Is it snapon corporate or the individual dealer that absorbs the loss?

Depends if it's truck credit or snap-on credit. Vast majority are through snap-on credit as they offer rebates and incentives.

Franchises act as agents of snap-on so they can in fact repo. It's in both purchaser terms and franchise agreement.

 

[Ign]

Interesting. I do hope the guy pays it off and no one gets screwed. That said, he'd be the one doing the screwing.

So what if you remove the serial number tag, just to be safe? Then there's no way they could ever prove it was THAT cart. I can't see how it'd be illegal to take a tag off a toolbox, it's much different than a motor vehicle.

When I called for new struts on my 54" they initially wanted serial #. I told them it was difficult to move (true) and I had the part # from the strut. When I said that it was clear he only wanted the serial # to reference part #s. Once I told him I already had the part # (clearly printed on the strut) he was perfectly happy.

Even if you ever had to call just say you repainted the cart and removed the sticker.. or a ******* scraped across it with a car and it's no longer legible, etc

 

[Shane6377]

Re: Snap on will “reclaim” my tool box?!?

Get a bill of sale for the purchase. You can write your own in 5min.

Debt is between the seller and the original purchaser.

I don't understand the moral dilemma here??? Even if the original owner still owes on the box and doesn't pay it off it's up to the seller to collect (through civil suit of otherwise). How could SO repossess a box from you that you purchased legally?


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Tinner]

Re: Snap on will “reclaim” my tool box?!?

How could SO repossess a box from you that you purchased legally?

They can't and they don't.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

The guy has not totally paid for the tool box; so according to his finance contract; he does not legally own it. He cannot legally sell a tool box he does not legally own.. Would You want to give him money for Snap-on's tool box.

If he wants the typical cash at midnight in the back alley type deal; You could get a real steal of a deal... would get worse if HE reports it as stolen to the police and insurance company. If caught up with; it would be rather difficult to prove You paid him in cash. Goodbye cash, goodbye Snap-on's tool box.

 

[RustyJunk]

Anything you buy used could possibly be confiscated if it was reported stolen or has a proper lien on it from a creditor. When I purchase items from Craigslist or wherever I pay cash and give out as little information as necessary about who I am and where that item is going. If you see a deal thats too good to be true on a Snap-On Box then there's probably some funny business going on.

 

[Shane6377]

The guy has not totally paid for the tool box; so according to his finance contract; he does not legally own it. He cannot legally sell a tool box he does not legally own.. Would You want to give him money for Snap-on's tool box.

If he wants the typical cash at midnight in the back alley type deal; You could get a real steal of a deal... would get worse if HE reports it as stolen to the police and insurance company. If caught up with; it would be rather difficult to prove You paid him in cash. Goodbye cash, goodbye Snap-on's tool box.

Get a bill of sale. Simple.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[lbhsbz]

IMO, debts where the bank doesn't hold a title to something are unsecured. Unsecured debts are personal loans, and have nothing to do with the thing that the loan was taken out to purchase. SO dealers repo boxes and tools because they get away with it. I wouldn't question whether or not a box is paid off in a private party sale...if the deal is right, buy it. If SO has a problem getting their money out of someone they loaned money too...that's their problem, not yours.

 

[JVB]

Lots of opinions.

For the student discount I think the carts are under 1k new so hard to say what is priced too low or what hard times someone has came onto.

This one is the krsc46 and am not sure it is included for student discount . He emailed me back and said he can do 600$ for it. It appears to be mint.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

IMO, debts where the bank doesn't hold a title to something are unsecured. Unsecured debts are personal loans, and have nothing to do with the thing that the loan was taken out to purchase. SO dealers repo boxes and tools because they get away with it. I wouldn't question whether or not a box is paid off in a private party sale...if the deal is right, buy it. If SO has a problem getting their money out of someone they loaned money too...that's their problem, not yours.

The Snap-on tool boxes I bought under contract listed the serial number of the box as the secured debt.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

I would buy it and not give a ****. Theyre creditors just like mastercard, they threaten but they cant do ****. Let them send a snap on truck to come get one of my boxes ive bought from crackheads for next to nothing. Theyll be escorted off the property with the business end of a 12 gauge... Its a civil matter so dont let them threaten you with cops either.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Get a bill of sale. Simple.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

Good idea.. Then you can take the "seller" to small claims court in an attempt to get your money back.

 

[Shane6377]

Re: Snap on will “reclaim” my tool box?!?

If it doesn't have a title it's not a secured debt. A buyer can't be expected to check with a manufacturer of a product before a private party sale.

The lien is only enforceable if the product is held by the borrower. If they sell the collateral they are in breach of contract and the debtor can collect through civil court.

A debtor cannot collect from someone else who acquired a product in a legal sale.

Again, do your part as a buyer and get a bill of sale to prove your legal purchase and you'll be fine.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[ngk22r]

Re: Snap on will “reclaim” my tool box?!?

Get a bill of sale for the purchase. You can write your own in 5min.

Debt is between the seller and the original purchaser.

I don't understand the moral dilemma here??? Even if the original owner still owes on the box and doesn't pay it off it's up to the seller to collect (through civil suit of otherwise). How could SO repossess a box from you that you purchased legally?


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

The loans are collateral with the boxes serial number attached to it.

Until the box is paid in full, Snap-on owns the box. No if, and, or buts about it, they can leaglly repossess the box since they are the legal owner of it, not the guy who is selling it with a lien.

 

[SilverBulletZ06]

I would buy it and not give a ****. Theyre creditors just like mastercard, they threaten but they cant do ****. Let them send a snap on truck to come get one of my boxes ive bought from crackheads for next to nothing. Theyll be escorted off the property with the business end of a 12 gauge... Its a civil matter so dont let them threaten you with cops either.

Receipt of Stolen Goods is more then likely a crime in your area.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Interesting. I do hope the guy pays it off and no one gets screwed. That said, he'd be the one doing the screwing.

So what if you remove the serial number tag, just to be safe? Then there's no way they could ever prove it was THAT cart. I can't see how it'd be illegal to take a tag off a toolbox, it's much different than a motor vehicle.

When I called for new struts on my 54" they initially wanted serial #. I told them it was difficult to move (true) and I had the part # from the strut. When I said that it was clear he only wanted the serial # to reference part #s. Once I told him I already had the part # (clearly printed on the strut) he was perfectly happy.

Even if you ever had to call just say you repainted the cart and removed the sticker.. or a ******* scraped across it with a car and it's no longer legible, etc

The serial number is nothing more than printed on a sticker/decal isn't it ?

There's nothing stamped any where on the sheet metal of the box is there ?

I'm pretty sure I know the answers but just wanted to get some verification.

 

[Skin]

It is stamped inside. Or use to be. Might be a second sticker in there now.

 

[Lucid Moments]

It is actually a little complicated. It is certainly possible but in my considered opinion unlikely. In order to "reclaim" the box Snap On would have to have a perfected lien on it.
The most common way people are familiar with to perfect a lien is to file a lien on a titled piece of property. Most commonly an automobile. There are ways that a lien can be perfected though.

The first question is if snap on bothered to do what is needed to do that. I find that to be a little unlikely. The second question is how would they identify the specific box? Do they have serial numbers?

BTW I did debt collections professionally for nearly 20 years.

 

[stingry]

I’m not a lawyer and don’t pretend to offer legal advice, BUT you are being fed a lot of BS here! If the toolbox is collateral for a loan and a lien has been filed on it, it is secured property. Even if the original buyer who bought it from Snapon sells it, the holder of the note still has a legal interest in the toolcart You can check with your Secretary of State to see if a UCC financing statement has been filed on the toolcart and the original purchaser. If you purchase this tool cart, you could possibly be responsible for paying off the original note. I wouldn’t touch this with a ten foot pole.

 

[plinker]

It is stamped inside. Or use to be. Might be a second sticker in there now.

From what I understand, there is the usual sticker on the outside of the box (on the back usually), and one on either the bottom side of a drawer or bottom of the inside of the box.

 

[Git]

Reminds me of a recent lawsuit that Ford lost against Meecum

When Ford sells one of their $450K Ford GT's, there is a stipulation that the new owner can't sell the car for 2 years. Well, someone did and sold it to a car dealer for $1.1 Million and the dealer turned around and sold it at a Meecum for $1.8 million. Ford sued, the Judge ruled the there was no agreement between the dealer (the 2nd owner) and Ford, and let the sale proceed. A little bit more money at stake than a Snap On tool box...

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/court-...d-gt-auction-revealed-as-litigation-continues

 

[El_Guapo]

I've never seen a stamped S/N on either of mine - if it's there, it's well hidden.

 

[shanny19]

Lots of opinions. but here’s one more:
The concept that a toolbox has quote unquote title.....like a house or car......its just a cultural thing that techs spread around to each other to make themselves feel good, feel like the overpriced metal box is an investment, like a house or car......its not. If i was buying on the secondary market, id no more look into a toolboxes clean history than i would look into a used hammer’s clean history.

 

[SS5150]

My dealer said he repo'ed a box that a guy skipped out on him over a decade ago.
I don't think I'd even consider buying a box knowing that the seller owes money on it.
20 years ago I bought a used Mac Tech 1000, it was maybe a year old. Guy I worked with knew the seller. Paid him $1000, had a good box for many years. Mac dealer even commented on what a good deal it was. Few years later coworker mentioned the guy had just told him he never paid it off. It never came back to me...I ended up trading it in for a new Macsimizer.

 

[sweet victory]

The first question is if snap on bothered to do what is needed to do that. I find that to be a little unlikely. The second question is how would they identify the specific box? Do they have serial numbers?

BTW I did debt collections professionally for nearly 20 years.

Yes, the boxes are serialized.

 

[Ign]

I'm not sure if a bill of sale covers you. If the guy stops paying it would - I ASSume - be considered stolen property.

If so, you are - I believe - NOT "a holder in due course."

I believe that is the legal issue that would be the definitive thing here. If someone is an attorney and says otherwise I of course defer to them.

If anything I'd avoid a bill of sale, pay cash and remove any serial numbers. No trace to you and no way to prove WHICH box (cart) you actually have. That's just what I'd do - in this instance a paper trail would make me nervous.

If you want to provide other identifiers in case of actual THEFT FROM you, engrave your social (or whatever) on the underside. I'm not aware of any reason a police report on stolen property must include a FACTORY identifier -- it'd be difficult for a thief to explain why he has a cart with your unique identifier on it. And IME the cops do virtually nothing about robbery so none of that is likely worth worrying about.

 

[Shane6377]

Re: Snap on will “reclaim” my tool box?!?

The loans are collateral with the boxes serial number attached to it.



Until the box is paid in full, Snap-on owns the box. No if, and, or buts about it, they can leaglly repossess the box since they are the legal owner of it, not the guy who is selling it with a lien.

This is not necessarily true. There are many factors including if the lien is an equitable interest lien, perfected or unperfected, etc.

Since the toolbox doesn't have a title (and therefore no reliable way for a future buyer to determine ownership) the lien is probably an equitable interest lien which means Snap on owns the value of the box but not necessarily the box. Splitting hairs I know but that's the way most liens work for property without a title.

I don't work for Snap On so I could be wrong. A serial number is not a title and I cannot imagine a lien being enforceable against a secondary legal buyer.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Sycan]

Here's my take, 4 years ago I opened my Snap On credit with the purchase of a used box. $2500 off the truck, pretty cut and dried. Over the years I have made several bundle purchases of different tools, to where now my Snap on account is right around $10k currently. Over 4 years I've probably paid them close to $10k, if that box is their collateral they are way under collateralized. Pretty much everything else is tools, and lots of duplicates. Basically at this point equipping a shop and two service trucks. There is absolutely no way they can determine what is snap on finances and what I purchased from say my truck account or cash or second hand. My point is if I default on them they aren't going to show up and demand their tools and box back. They will come after me. So if 4 years later I want to sell that tool box, I can sell that tool box.

That said, if I stiff my dealer on my truck account, I absolutely would't be suprised if he showed up at my door wanting tools or money.

 

[Skin]

The tools are collateral as well.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

Just theorizing here, but if I were to buy a big tv (which of course has a serial #) with a credit card, then sell it on craigslist, and not pay the bill. Is the guy I sold it to liable? NO Absolutely Not. Will Mastercard show up at my door looking for my tv? NO Absolutely Not. They can sue me, and get a judgement against me, but am I or the buyer criminally liable? No Absolutely Not.

So how is this any different? GIT gave some precedent more or less by referring to a particular case with ford vs.meccum. Anyone else care to reference one? If it was a crime then every tech who has defaulted on their toolbox would be in jail. Not starting ****, just sparking the debate.

 

[jayrush13]

Do individual Snap on tools have serial numbers? How could they prove that that 10mm socket is the one you owe money on?

 

[Sycan]

The tools are collateral as well.

No they're not.

Who's going to repo them? Who's going to come into your home/garage and take a 1000lb box? Nobody. It's no different than defaulting on a credit card.

 

[IndyGarage]

If it was a box I wanted and the price was right, and I get a bill of sale, I would buy the box and not think twice.

Snap-on obviously is a finance company as much as a tool company. They sell high priced tools on payment terms with mechanics. When the mechanics don't pay they repossess the tools. it probably varies state to state, but they may not even have a legal right to do that without taking it to court. They probably do it every day though.

I doubt they have any right to take something from someone that doesn't owe them money. That doesn't mean they won't try - people do illegal stuff every day and get away with it.