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Above 1200 Sq/FT Restored 1930's Auto Shop

Wokspaces above 1200 squarefeet.

71 MKIV

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Lancaster PA
Thank you Thomas, More information is better.

A subsequent study of the fireplace pictures shows that the metal studs behind the fireplace do get filled with insulation, I just missed it. Once that big chunk of masonry gets warm, that will give off heat for a long time.

Thanks for letting us come along on the journey.

Steve aka 71MKIV
 
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welder57

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Feb 26, 2011
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How cold is there this morning? I saw on the forecast a REAL cold blast there or coming.... Stay Warm!!!!
 

markviii

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Jan 25, 2010
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Location
east central IL
36° and rain. Rain will be done by 2pm. Actually flat wet surfaces are already glazed. The temps will be below freezing and just go lower. Tomorrow's high temp will be 5° and will just continue down below 0°F to -20° with wind for a day or so. Then up to 30ish by the weekend. Just in time for the groundhog to give us his idea of length of winter. Looking forward to the Super Bowl.
What a way to end January. Two years ago we were prepping to move into the new house on Feb 3. Temps were 60s - I repotted my plants and let them sit out in the sun for the day.
It's Illinois, so I'm never surprise. I just know to plan ahead and maybe not get to do planned activities.
 
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BB767

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Philo, IL
Free Standing Chimney - Fireplace Details

Thank you Thomas, More information is better.

A subsequent study of the fireplace pictures shows that the metal studs behind the fireplace do get filled with insulation, I just missed it. Once that big chunk of masonry gets warm, that will give off heat for a long time.

Thanks for letting us come along on the journey.

Steve aka 71MKIV

Steve, here's my report on free standing chimneys. If there are no concerns regarding seismic activity (earthquakes) there are no formulas as to the size/weight of a free standing chimney. Build to suit your aesthetic taste.

If there are seismic concerns, consult the local/state building codes which do specify various code and formula rules that need be complied with.

Now here's a little more background information on some of the safety features of the fireplace build you and some others might have missed.



All the material behind the firebox is fireproof. As you noted, there are metal studs in the wall behind the fire box. Attached to the metal studs on the outside of the house in that wall area, is chemically treated, fireproof plywood...



...then fireproof insulation is used to completely fill the wall cavity between the studs (seen behind the black damper) and then...



...on the inside wall surface, a metal sheet is attached to the studs.



Here's another view of the backing block under construction. The ash dump in the center of the firebox shows well here.

Additionally...



...there is a 2" air-gap between the concrete block behind the firebox and the metal sheet. Those are all safety features to insure that the area behind the firebox can never cause an accidental fire internally in the wall, no matter how hot a fire you create in the fireplace. This side view really shows how the fireplace is constructed completely inside the home heated envelope.

The above picture also shows how the cores of the concrete blocks were all concrete filled as was the void area directly behind and around the firebox. The void was filled with masonry rubble and then concrete was added into the rubble as we went to create one vast thermal mass structure. That all contributes to the thermal mass that will absorb heat from the firebox, and then slowly release that heat back into the home once the fire dies down. If this area were constructed outside the house, all that heat would be lost to the outside.

If anyone is interested I can do additional information on the smoke shelf construction...



...or not. Maybe this was juussst about enough on fireplace construction. :) There are a lot of details that go into a relatively efficient, well constructed fireplace. I suspect that's one of the reasons you don't see them being constructed very often anymore.

The temperature locally is going to be below 0º for the next couple of days (late January) but that fireplace will completely take any chill off of our great room. I'll use it during the afternoon/evenings and then during the night, all the stored heat in the thermal mass will radiate back into the room. I've been taking temperature readings with my infrared laser thermometer as I slowly build heat, day after day into the mass. I'll let you know how it's working.

Toasty Thomas
 
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BB767

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Re: Mantle Installation

A man spends his life becoming a journeyman craftsman and in that lifetime he fills a box with the hard-won tools of his trade....................


Thomas, to say he would approve is one of the understatements of our time.

Not quite sure what to say. Perhaps just a simple thank you Mike will suffice.

A very, very blessed Thomas
 

markviii

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Jan 25, 2010
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Location
east central IL
The fireplace is coming in very handy!

As the temps continue to go down, we should see -17F (wind chills -45F) by tomorrow (Wednesday) evening. Nothing like the -52F in Manitoba, but lots lower than we're use to. Many schools and some county, state and and federal offices will be closed on Wednesday. Then we're on to the next weather event - the temps will just keep rising from 4am Wednesday until Saturday (Groundhog Day) when we'll start having 40s/50s with some rain on Monday/Tuesday before we settle down to 30s for awhile and probably some snow. Keep those snow boots, gloves and shovels handy!

Chris
 

XJSuperman

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Jan 26, 2018
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Central Iowa
Same for Iowa: -22F when I left for work. That fireplace is gorgeous Thomas. I need one to keep warm today, guess Ill settle for turning up the thermostat.
 

71 MKIV

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Lancaster PA
Thank you again for the explanation Thomas. Very appreciated.

Anytime I do something, I always have a better way by the time I am done.

You must have a terrific memory and used all those layovers with nothing to do to think through some of this stuff.

Steve aka 71MKIV
 
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BB767

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That Fireplace makes that mantel look small.
And from the previous photos, that is not a small piece of Wood!
It looks really great in the photos, I bet it looks even better in person.

I have to say I find the mantle very pleasing to look at Donnie and I love running my hand over it. It really does finish off the fireplace. It's pretty much what I had in my minds eye a long time ago.

............

Anytime I do something, I always have a better way by the time I am done.

You must have a terrific memory and used all those layovers with nothing to do to think through some of this stuff.

Steve aka 71MKIV

No question layovers were spend hashing through various details Steve, but true confession here. When you're flying over large stretches of ocean at night, be it Atlantic or Pacific, you tend to have time to ponder such things. :) There's only so much aircraft monitoring, navigation or radio work to do after all in those areas.

With all the recent cold weather...



...the firewood is starting to disappear. When the left side of the rack is empty, I'll restock it from my outside supply and burn the right side wood while the new, left side wood is drying down better. (The garage floor is heated remember) No worries about running out though...



...I've got more than double the amount of firewood seen here. :thumbup:

Still warm and toasty Thomas
 

Joe-R

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St. Louis
I just wanted to stop in and mention that I thoroughly enjoyed reading the Beltsville Shell!!! It turns out I have the same birthday as Cary Thomas (9/22), but not the same year. I took a picture that shows the book with a kindred spirit before I sent it on to eokie1.

Anyhow, this is a very cool deal!!!

Joe
 

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BB767

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I just wanted to stop in and mention that I thoroughly enjoyed reading the Beltsville Shell!!! It turns out I have the same birthday as Cary Thomas (9/22), but not the same year. I took a picture that shows the book with a kindred spirit before I sent it on to eokie1.

Anyhow, this is a very cool deal!!!

Joe

Thanks Joe for the BS 1.0 update. So far we're 100% agreed here that Beltsville Shell is a great book to read. I might mention author Cary Thomas has now officially retired as of last Friday from the Scripps Institute. When I was talking with him last week about the latest North American book tour he mentioned he had only 5 copies left from his second printing. I don't know if he'll do another printing or not.

Here's the latest 4th NAT reading list updated.

1. - eokie1

2. - B.Cueva

3. - Ms Bowman

4. - Paul_VR6

5. - MrScott99

I'm sure everyone appreciates the fairly quick turnaround from reader to reader that everyone has done.

I agree Joe, this is very cool deal!

My wood shop electrical work is coming along nicely. I've wired a total of 52 outlets that are -110/120 volt. All the single phase wiring is complete with just the 3 phase 240/480 volt wiring to go. Nothing glamours but very satisfying.

Thomas
 

Lootenny

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Jan 6, 2014
Messages
105
My wood shop electrical work is coming along nicely. I've wired a total of 52 outlets that are -110/120 volt. All the single phase wiring is complete with just the 3 phase 240/480 volt wiring to go. Nothing glamours but very satisfying.



Thomas


Tom, were you able to get COM Ed to bring three phase power onto your property, or are using phase converters? If converters, rotary or solid-state? I’ve passed up machines in the past because I didn’t have three phase power, and I’m wondering how much of a hassle it is to rig it up.

Denny
Vette-Kart FIB



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

akqj9

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I really admire your design and quality of workmanship. How often do you wonder what the prior owner would say if he could see it now?
 
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BB767

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Tom, were you able to get COM Ed to bring three phase power onto your property, or are using phase converters? If converters, rotary or solid-state? I’ve passed up machines in the past because I didn’t have three phase power, and I’m wondering how much of a hassle it is to rig it up.

Denny
Vette-Kart FI


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hello Denny, and thank you for your interest. We live in a somewhat rural area so our power isn't supplied by COM ED. Before I started construction I talked with our local power company engineers explaining my power needs, specifically 3 phase for some of my equipment. They explained that first of all since this is not a business, but rather a residence, they were unable to supply 3 phase and secondly if they did, I would have to bear the cost to bring it from the closest source which they estimated to be greater than $20,000. :shocking:

Clearly that wasn't going to work so I decided to produce my own.



This is the electrical heart of our home. In the background you can see the some of the wiring isn't installed yet. That is what I'm presently installing for the woodshop. We have 400 amp service coming in and I'm using...










...a rotary phase converter which works just dandy! It give me good, clean steady 3 phase power and is very quiet in operation.

That rotary converter gives me 3 phase 240 V and...



...this transformer steps that up to 3 phase 480 V for my larger machines and to power...



...the hoist for the material lift.

There are many different ways to produce 3 phase power these days and depending on your power requirements and what you're trying to do, some of them are relatively cost effective. Having 3 phase does give you access to some very nice industrial equipment at bargain prices. A discussion with a local electrician would be worth exploring I would think.


I really admire your design and quality of workmanship. How often do you wonder what the prior owner would say if he could see it now?

akqj9 that is a nice compliment and I thank you for it. I thought highly of Mr Johnson which is one reason I tried so hard to preserve the memory of his shop and what he and his son Don accomplished out there over the decades. I really do often wonder what he would make of his shop and property as it is now. I would hope that he would approve. Certainly his wife approved as she was 97 years old and still living here long enough to see the bulk of the shop done and much of the grounds cleaned up. It really delighted her. :)

Thomas
 

akqj9

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Nov 9, 2010
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21
I live in a 1923 craftsman bungalow that my great uncle built. I added a second story and doubled the size of his workshop and use many of his old tools. I wish he could see it now.
 

APEowner

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Oct 2, 2009
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Sunny, New Mexico
T...his is the electrical heart of our home. In the background you can see the some of the wiring isn't installed yet. That is what I'm presently installing for the woodshop. We have 400 amp service coming in and I'm using...










...a rotary phase converter which works just dandy! It give me good, clean steady 3 phase power and is very quiet in operation.


Thomas

Thomas - how and when do you turn on the phase converter? I assume you don't leave it running all the time.
 
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BB767

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I live in a 1923 craftsman bungalow that my great uncle built. I added a second story and doubled the size of his workshop and use many of his old tools. I wish he could see it now.

Good for you akqj9. Working in that environment and with those tools is an almost mystical connection with the past isn't it?

Thomas - how and when do you turn on the phase converter? I assume you don't leave it running all the time.

Quite so, I only turn on the converter when I need 3 phase power. If I'm doing work using those machines over a several hour period, I just leave it running until I'm done with it for the day. I turn it on/off with the circuit breaker for it.

Is that cabinet preventing access to the disconnects? 36" in front.

Not quite sure which cabinet you're referring to fasteddie, but I have complete, unimpeded access to everything.

Thomas
 

realvc

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Jan 7, 2011
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394
Location
Lake Norrell, AR
My Benwil lift has a 3 phase motor that I operate with a static phase converter.
I used to use a home made rotary phase converter that consists of an idler motor and a pony motor with a belt and pulleys, but it took a minute to get everything started to operate the lift. The rotary does produce 3 phase power but the static starts 3 phase for a moment and then drops out when the motor starts and then it runs on 1 phase at 2/3 power.

Vince
 

MG David

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Apr 14, 2009
Messages
192
Location
Warwick UK
Interesting that you have gone the phase converter route. A few years ago I was looking at buying some used machine tools and a 4 post lift. The reasonably priced ones tend to be 3 phase as I am sure you know. So I looked into converters versus replacing the motors with single phase motors which seems to be the alternative. You have a number of machines so i can see why you went the converter route. The break even point seems to be about 3 machines.

In the end my wife encouraged me abandon both options on the grounds of economics! But when I see your machine collection it reminds me that economics is not the only factor. You can't have too many tools, or cars for that matter.
 

stillp

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May 5, 2015
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428
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Midlands, UK
I took the single phase motor off my woodturning lathe and replaced it with a threee-phase motor. I run it from a single phase supply, using a variable frequency drive, which as well as giving variable speed, lets me set the acceleration and braking ramps.
I've not been impressed by any of the static converters I've examined in the UK; unlike VFDs, they don't seem to be made to any particular standard, and can cause problems with emitted interference as well as harmonic distortion.
Pete
 

CVOBill

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Feb 13, 2018
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Location
Vermilion, OH
Thomas,
I emailed Cary to check availability and Beltsville Shell is sold out again. He did put my name on a list if he decides to have a third printing. Just thought you would like to know.
 
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BB767

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Philo, IL
Thomas,
I emailed Cary to check availability and Beltsville Shell is sold out again. He did put my name on a list if he decides to have a third printing. Just thought you would like to know.

Thanks Bill for that update. Cary claims he can always tell when we discuss his book because he'll get a quick batch of orders. His second printing sold out really fast. I'm going to see him in a few weeks and I'll see if he's made a decision by then and update everyone.

Being an retired fellow now might color his decision. Don't give up Bill! Thanks again.

Thomas
 

Thirdyfivepickup

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Nov 15, 2016
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Portage, Indiana
Re: Questions Answered



...I have a time lapse camera working that is...



...mounted under the carport of the barn.


So.... did you ever manage to do a video that shows the construction of your beautiful house? I had to go all the way back to page 479 to find the initial post! You've probably got hours of footage to use!

I didn't go back as so far as to find the posts about the quiz... that I think is never coming...
 
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BB767

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Floor Outlets Installed

So.... did you ever manage to do a video that shows the construction of your beautiful house? I had to go all the way back to page 479 to find the initial post! You've probably got hours of footage to use!

I didn't go back as so far as to find the posts about the quiz... that I think is never coming...

Interesting you bring that up Thirdyfivepickup. My son and I were discussing that very subject earlier this week. I do indeed have several hours of video that needs to be edited down to create a video showing the time lapse house build. He has kindly volunteered to help edit when the time comes. As I'm still doing some construction, that hasn't been done yet.......but it will be. :) I've previewed a rough video I put together with the construction sped up and it's entertaining for sure. Right now my priority is getting the wood shop finished.

Since I'm doing the wood shop electrical work right now, a couple of days ago I installed electrical outlets in the floor of the great room.

Because we didn't know quite where the furniture would eventually be placed in that room, I didn't know where to place the in-the-floor electrical outlets during the initial construction phase. Having finalized end table and table lighting placement, I could now proceed with installation of the floor outlets.

Not a big deal right? Yeah, except for the fact that I've got...



... water filled radiant floor heat tubes installed under the sub-floor. Nick one of those puppies drilling or cutting and spring a leak in the floor and I'd be in a world of hurt!! :shocking: This is looking up at the sub-floor from the basement. Everyone of those white tubes carries distilled water to provide for heated floors.



These aluminum plates are screwed to the sub-floor and the heat tube...



...is snapped into place in the provided channel. The picture shows the tube just sitting on the channel, it is not snapped into place here. There are 2 of these aluminum plates installed between each floor joist with enough room between them for the floor outlets to be installed.



It turned out one of the electrical outlets needed to be placed right above this round A/C duct so I had to temporarily remove the duct to gain access to the sub-floor area above it.



Here you can see the outlet installed and why that duct needed to be removed. There was no room to do the outlet install with that duct in place.

So before drilling and cutting the floor I did a very careful measurement of the initial hole placement.



You're working blind, the hole needs to be in the right spot in the room, but I also have to miss the heat tubes under the floor which you can only see from the basement side. Working in the basement I drilled a very small pilot hole from under the floor, working sub-floor side up. That way I knew exactly where the water lines were and hoped it came out in the right spot upstairs. This is the outlet template taped to the floor for layout purposes and that's an awl for precise marking of the center.

With the initial pilot hole drilled and proper outlet placement confirmed...



...I could then proceed with drilling and cutting the floor.



I scored the outline with a chisel to minimize splintering on the outside edge of the cutout. The floors are made of hickory, the same wood as the rest of the house with the exception of pine used on the ceiling.



I also used blue tape to help control side splintering. The jigsaw blade I used had 20 teeth per inch (2.5 cm)...



...and it worked perfectly. No splintering, just nice, clean edges on the cutout.



A total of 3 outlets were installed with 2 shown here.



The room was disturbed a bit while this was going on.



Once the holes were cut, the rest was easy.





The trim cover plates are brass with a very thick rubber gasket under them to prevent liquids on the floor from going into the outlets. The 2 individual brass cover caps screw into place.



It took 14 hours from start to finish. I'd been thinking about how to do this little task successfully for months. There was very little margin for error so I was very slow and deliberate in every step. I made frequent trips upstairs and down to the basement to confirm everything. Measure 5 times, cut once! It was all worthwhile, the outlets are placed right where they were suppose to go and the installation was neat and tidy. Now with the completion of that little project another punch list item gets crossed off.

Electrical work in the wood shop is virtually complete with the exception of the lighting. That will be done along with the installation of the finish, drop ceiling. But first comes installation of the dust collection system. I'm starting to see some light at the end of a very long tunnel. Thanks again everyone. Don't give up on me just yet!

Thomas
 
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71 MKIV

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Lancaster PA
Um, Thomas?
You do realize what you have in Chris don't you?

My wife, (and all 5 of her sisters LOL), would, no sooner than the holes be cut in the floor, say "you know, I don't like that there, I think this should move over there" and a bright brass outlet cover winds up right smack in the middle of an open space.

Kudos to the fact that there are no obvious electronic screens in that room. That room just screams good conversation late into the night.

Steve 71MKIV
 
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BB767

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Um, Thomas?
You do realize what you have in Chris don't you?........

Steve 71MKIV

Ummmmmmm, yes, yes I do!!!! :bounce: For almost 44 years I've realized what a special gal she is. You find a good one and then you keep 'em.

Love struck Thomas

Oh and PS, about that "no obvious electronic screens in that room". Correct it's not obvious by design. However...













...the screen is 11 feet (3.3m) diagonal, self-tensioning. The projector is 4K, high def, and the sound system is 7 channel, tuned to the room. But despite all that, we still have "good conversation late into the night." Kudos accepted Steve, with thanks. ;)
 

red

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Feb 20, 2009
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Hudson Valley, NY
Thomas,
I'm sure you're tired of hearing this but thanks again for bringing us along for the ride.

Seeing your kitchen and living room reminds me of my first house and my first kitchen I did.
As time goes by you begin not to notice. I realized this when I came back from business after 3wks and walked into my kitchen and I appreciated it all over again.

That's what it's like looking at your kitchen/fireplace/living room again. Wow!

-Ed
 

Thirdyfivepickup

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Nov 15, 2016
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Location
Portage, Indiana


...the screen is 11 feet (3.3m) diagonal, self-tensioning. The projector is 4K, high def, and the sound system is 7 channel, tuned to the room. But despite all that, we still have "good conversation late into the night." Kudos accepted Steve, with thanks. ;)

Should paint that projector white... lol (seeing as though the light at the end of the tunnel is approaching)
 
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