VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

[thejudges69]

So I have this and I'm tired of moving it around. It was given to me for the cost of shipping and I'd like to do the same. I needed the screw for my Wilton tradesman in the background, but was left with these 2 pieces. Does anyone need them, if so pm me.

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[MayerMR]

So I have this and I'm tired of moving it around. It was given to me for the cost of shipping and I'd like to do the same. I needed the screw for my Wilton tradesman in the background, but was left with these 2 pieces. Does anyone need them, if so pm me.

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Hey Judges,

What is the approximate diameter of that end cap hole of that cap? Reason I'm asking is because I have a really worn main nut on a 3.5" Wilton and I am wondering if that one would fit in a C0...

Thanks,

-Matt

 

[thejudges69]

Hey Judges,



What is the approximate diameter of that end cap hole of that cap? Reason I'm asking is because I have a really worn main nut on a 3.5" Wilton and I am wondering if that one would fit in a C0...



Thanks,



-Matt

I'll measure when I get back to the shop, you want the ID correct of the cap?

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[MayerMR]

I'll measure when I get back to the shop, you want the ID correct of the cap?

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Well, now that I'm thinking about it, the dimensions of the main nut is really what I need. I'll have to ask you to forgive me, I've got a hell of a head cold and I've not been thinking clearly all day

 

[thejudges69]

Well, now that I'm thinking about it, the dimensions of the main nut is really what I need. I'll have to ask you to forgive me, I've got a hell of a head cold and I've not been thinking clearly all day

No problem, you still want measurements?

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[MayerMR]

No problem, you still want measurements?

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Yes please, the measurements of the main nut should suffice.

 

[thejudges69]

Yes please, the measurements of the main nut should suffice.

Ok, I'll get it in a little while.

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[Shiftless]

Gman007

Here are some details about the technique I used to free up that seized 9400 I’ve been working on.
I was able to get the cap and the tailpiece casting off without too much difficulty.
I drove out those 2 little pins and removed the big long nut that is unique to the Wilton bullets.
Regular applications of Kroil and tapping didn’t free it up so I cobbled up a puller.

I bolted the main casting down to a length of 2x12 and then screwed a scrap of 4x6 to the other end. I bought a 2 foot length of 3/4 inch all thread and a few nuts and washers.

I screwed the 2x12 down to my old Work Mate and had somebody else leaning on it for stability.

I filed down a stack of washers until they fit inside the bore of the casting and bore onto the end of the slide.
I put a cast iron ductile washer and a nut on the allthread where it ran through the 4x6 block.
So as I tightened the nut next to the wooden block, the set up applied linear force against the back of the slide which ultimately lead to the jaws spreading apart.
No, I didnt measure the foot pounds but I can say that I was applying all of my weight on the end of that 24 inch long breaker bar. I guess that is 350 foot pounds. (BTW, that’s a Snappy)

More Kroil, a few “taps” with a hammer and it gradually came apart.

 

[thejudges69]

Yes please, the measurements of the main nut should suffice.

A rough measurement of the screw hole size is 11/16".

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[gman007]

Gman007

Here are some details about the technique I used to free up that seized 9400 I’ve been working on.
I was able to get the cap and the tailpiece casting off without too much difficulty.
I drove out those 2 little pins and removed the big long nut that is unique to the Wilton bullets.
Regular applications of Kroil and tapping didn’t free it up so I cobbled up a puller.

I bolted the main casting down to a length of 2x12 and then screwed a scrap of 4x6 to the other end. I bought a 2 foot length of 3/4 inch all thread and a few nuts and washers.

I screwed the 2x12 down to my old Work Mate and had somebody else leaning on it for stability.

I filed down a stack of washers until they fit inside the bore of the casting and bore onto the end of the slide.
I put a cast iron ductile washer and a nut on the allthread where it ran through the 4x6 block.
So as I tightened the nut next to the wooden block, the set up applied linear force against the back of the slide which ultimately lead to the jaws spreading apart.
No, I didnt measure the foot pounds but I can say that I was applying all of my weight on the end of that 24 inch long breaker bar. I guess that is 350 foot pounds. (BTW, that’s a Snappy)

More Kroil, a few “taps” with a hammer and it gradually came apart.

Shift
Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. As I said this technique can definitely come handy.

Despite your great explanation, I am still not clear on one point. When you tighten the nut next to wooden block what is applying the force to the dynamic jaw to move it toward the wooden block (at least that is what I think you mean pushing the jaws apart as static jaw housing is fixed and will not move)? The washers? If not what is the role of the washers and what is pushing on the dynamic jaw and moving towards the wooden block?

Cheers
Thx again

 

[Shiftless]

Ignore the size of the washers in picture 2. That was plan A
This is plan B
I filed down the washers so that they’d fit inside the bore of the main vise body and bear on the end of the slide. As I tightened the nut by the wooden block, the allthread got shorter which applied force onto the back of the slide in the direction that would pull the jaws apart.

I hope that cleared things up.

 

[gman007]

Ignore the size of the washers in picture 2. That was plan A
This is plan B
I filed down the washers so that they’d fit inside the bore of the main vise body and bear on the end of the slide. As I tightened the nut by the wooden block, the allthread got shorter which applied force onto the back of the slide in the direction that would pull the jaws apart.

I hope that cleared things up.

Yes it did

 

[gman007]

I am disassembling a Wilton bullet 400s (Jan 1973). Does anyone know if there is a single pin that holds the cone part at the end the of the static jaw assembly as well as the cylindrical nut or are there two such pins?

I have an older 1942 bullet which has a single pin but seem to recall a discussion somewhere that the newer bullets have two pins.

Oddly enough on this bullet on one side I see the pin slightly recessed into the hole but in the other side the end of pin seems to be almost peened ( pls see photos) , so I am wondering if there is only one pin going all the way through and therefore I can knock it through from the end that is already recessed. If there are two pins, do they line up so that one can knock one through which will push through the second one as well? Or is there a better way to do this?

Any help and tips are greatly appreciated

 

[nutjob]

Not sure about 1973 but I had a 4" 1987 and it had 2 pins. The pins are tapered and splined on the outer end. DO NOT drive them in! I used an allen wrench from the inside to drive them out, someone on YouTube showed how to do this.

Kevin

 

[gman007]

Not sure about 1973 but I had a 4" 1987 and it had 2 pins. The pins are tapered and splined on the outer end. DO NOT drive them in! I used an allen wrench from the inside to drive them out, someone on YouTube showed how to do this.

Kevin

Kevin
Thanks for the 411. Are the ends from the inside visible? I will see if I can find the YouTube video
Cheers

 

[nutjob]

Kevin
Thanks for the 411. Are the ends from the inside visible? I will see if I can find the YouTube video
Cheers

The ends are very difficult to see, I had to hold the allen wrench against the side of the nut with slight pressure and "feel" for the hole.

Kevin

Found it:

 

[gman007]

The ends are very difficult to see, I had to hold the allen wrench against the side of the nut with slight pressure and "feel" for the hole.

Kevin

Found it:

Kevin
Thanks again. I found two YouTube videos and both guys I guess mistakingly punched one pin in and with great difficulty and somehow with grace of God managed to get the first pin to go through the hole for the second pin and push it out etc and I see your point why this is not a good way of doing it.

 

[gman007]

Kevin
Thanks for the tip about Allen wrench. After application of Kroil to the pins (from inside) I used an Allen wrench to drive one of the pins out (BTW using a flash light I can clearly see the holes from inside and had no problem positioning the Allen wrench). Then I used a long punch and pushed it through the first hole all the way against the inside end of the second pin and punched out the second pin (this a bit easier than using the Allen wrench).

Thanks much for all the help and advice (or may be I should say ad-Vise )

Next task is to get the jaw inserts off and that is generally my biggest bane. I had a quick round with impact driver to no avail. So I am going to take my time and keep applying Kroil for few days and the try the impact driver or resort to pneumatic impact wrench.

 

[va.grouseman]

Gman, I'll bet that's why a lot of Wiltons have a chunk broke out at the pin because someone didn't know just how they were put together.

 

[autopts]

I've worked on alot of bullets and I think removing the pins is a total waste of time. One misstep with the punch can crack the casting in back. Also many times the pins drift out after its together or you have to end up making them. I have a long thin hard bristle brush. I put the body in my other vise hole facing up and I give the inside a bath with BrakeClean using the brush to go all the way back and around that nut assembly and inside cylinder while I'm spraying. The towel on the floor underneath is greasy dirty then I take a rag and with a long screwdriver I clean the tube. Comes out perfect every time.

 

[gman007]

I've worked on alot of bullets and I think removing the pins is a total waste of time. One misstep with the punch can crack the casting in back. Also many times the pins drift out after its together or you have to end up making them. I have a long thin hard bristle brush. I put the body in my other vise hole facing up and I give the inside a bath with BrakeClean using the brush to go all the way back and around that nut assembly and inside cylinder while I'm spraying. The towel on the floor underneath is greasy dirty then I take a rag and with a long screwdriver I clean the tube. Comes out perfect every time.

Nick
That is great advice and something to keep in mind for any future work on bullets. BTW your sage advise is always on the money and is greatly appreciated.

Now at least in the case of the present bullet though, I will most likely end up having all the parts nickel plated individually and then the usual parts that are normally painted, powder coated. So that is why I want to completely disassemble the vise. Well at least that is the plan for now but the plan might change depending on a number of factors.

 

[Shiftless]

I agree with Nick. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. I took mine apart because I needed access to break the slide loose. Just for cleaning, I don’t disassemble.

 

[nutjob]

Next task is to get the jaw inserts off and that is generally my biggest bane. I had a quick round with impact driver to no avail. So I am going to take my time and keep applying Kroil for few days and the try the impact driver or resort to pneumatic impact wrench.

Here is a tip I picked up here but I do not remember from who. Use the vise to press a hex bit into the jaw screw that has a wrench on it. I have used this method on 2 vises now and it worked great both with phillips and straight screws. Use a pic, small screw driver or small chisel and hammer to clean the screw head as best as possible.

The only vise I had handy for a demo pic had hex screws but you get the idea.

 

[Roundhouse]

Here is a tip I picked up here but I do not remember from who. Use the vise to press a hex bit into the jaw screw that has a wrench on it. I have used this method on 2 vises now and it worked great both with phillips and straight screws. Use a pic, small screw driver or small chisel and hammer to clean the screw head as best as possible.



The only vise I had handy for a demo pic had hex screws but you get the idea.

Good tip
Use a ratchet wrench should be much faster

 

[gman007]

Here is a tip I picked up here but I do not remember from who. Use the vise to press a hex bit into the jaw screw that has a wrench on it. I have used this method on 2 vises now and it worked great both with phillips and straight screws. Use a pic, small screw driver or small chisel and hammer to clean the screw head as best as possible.

The only vise I had handy for a demo pic had hex screws but you get the idea.

Kevin
Thanks again!

In fact I did see this trick here sometimes back. I then tried this technique on a columbian vise with no success as I managed to bust several hex bits in the process. I do not know if it was because the screws were so badly rusted and fused or the hex bits were cheap quality or both.

Honestly after I had disassembled the bullet, it occurred to me to try it again but this time use the hex bits that came with the impact driver as they are pretty hefty. Well here is the rub, to do so I need to put the vise back together including the pesky pins and then assuming the inserts come off, I need to get the pins out again. It still might be worth it if all else fails.

 

[Outlawmws]

Gman, for this use you done need s pins, jsut something in there to keep the nut from turning. get a couple of big nails and cut them short and drop them in temporally. they don't even need to be particularly a good fit - use tape to keep them from falling out...

 

[gman007]

Gman, for this use you done need s pins, jsut something in there to keep the nut from turning. get a couple of big nails and cut them short and drop them in temporally. they don't even need to be particularly a good fit - use tape to keep them from falling out...

Outlaw
Thanks for the great idea, I will definitely try it out when I get a chance to work on the vise again.

 

[autopts]

Here's another tip for those that have bullets. I noticed one vise that had a washer under one swivel handle so when he tightened it down to the max, it wouldn't stick out. That's always a easy fix for some new members out there, 1 Turn your vise upside down 2 loosen the handle pressing up the carriage bolt until it clears the ring3 Stop the handle in the outside position and hold it there, 4 turn your carriage bolt 1/4 turn CW or CCW and re tighten. You may have to do it twice. This trick was probably mentioned in another post but I ain't got that kind of time on my hands to find it.
.

 

[gman007]

Here's another tip for those that have bullets. I noticed one vise that had a washer under one swivel handle so when he tightened it down to the max, it wouldn't stick out. That's always a easy fix for some new members out there, 1 Turn your vise upside down 2 loosen the handle pressing up the carriage bolt until it clears the ring3 Stop the handle in the outside position and hold it there, 4 turn your carriage bolt 1/4 turn CW or CCW and re tighten. You may have to do it twice. This trick was probably mentioned in another post but I ain't got that kind of time on my hands to find it.
.

Nick
Thanks for another great tip.

 

[gman007]

Nutjob (Kevin) and Outlaw
Gents, thank you both for the help and suggestions. Today I had to take a day off as I have somebody coming over to investigate the erratic behavior of the darn furnace. So I used the time to remove the jaw inserts.

A combination of good Kroil soaking and the technique mentioned above along with Outlaws’ suggestion for temporarily using small pins to hold the nut from rotating worked like a charm. I did use the hex bit from the impact driver which is built like a tank too.


BTW the inserts are in pristine shape and in fact except for the usual surface rust the whole vise is in great shape. There is not even a scratch on the so called anvil area. I am thoroughly stoked about this vise.

 

[drivesitfar]

I've worked on alot of bullets and I think removing the pins is a total waste of time. One misstep with the punch can crack the casting in back. Also many times the pins drift out after its together or you have to end up making them. I have a long thin hard bristle brush. I put the body in my other vise hole facing up and I give the inside a bath with BrakeClean using the brush to go all the way back and around that nut assembly and inside cylinder while I'm spraying. The towel on the floor underneath is greasy dirty then I take a rag and with a long screwdriver I clean the tube. Comes out perfect every time.

AUTOPTS: great tip for those that have a Wilton Bullet, Wilton Tradesman vises cause those pins are a PITA unless you are removing them to put in a hex headed screw for easy removal and cleaning next time.

007: I think GETRIDOFONE was maybe the first to post that cool advice where he put in a 1/4 inch bit into the jaw screw and kept it in place with the jaws of the vise before using a wrench to turn the screw. good luck!

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: I had a member ask me why his newer Reed 4c weighs 21 pounds less (157 pounds) than my Reed 4c (178 pounds). my thoughts were that maybe Columbian is building the Reed 4c's for Reed now or maybe Columbian owns Reed Vise company. or did Reed start using a different type of metal or start making hollow jaws? anybody know?

 

[va.grouseman]

Drive, the same reason a Baby-Ruth and a Hershey candy bar are half the size they used to be and cost twice as much as they did 30 years ago.---It's the new normal.

 

[gman007]

ALL: I had a member ask me why his newer Reed 4c weighs 21 pounds less (157 pounds) than my Reed 4c (178 pounds). my thoughts were that maybe Columbian is building the Reed 4c's for Reed now or maybe Columbian owns Reed Vise company. or did Reed start using a different type of metal or start making hollow jaws? anybody know?

Drives

It is called shrinkage

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: so I agree that things are not made with the quality of the past and that some things are not SUPER SIZED other than bad food or POP, but still wondering if Columbian makes the new Reed 4c's. the new 4c's sure look more like a Columbian than a REED and does Columbian maybe have ownership of REED or just a deal to make some of their vises?

 

[autopts]

ALL: I had a member ask me why his newer Reed 4c weighs 21 pounds less (157 pounds) than my Reed 4c (178 pounds). my thoughts were that maybe Columbian is building the Reed 4c's for Reed now or maybe Columbian owns Reed Vise company. or did Reed start using a different type of metal or start making hollow jaws? anybody know?

That Reed 4AC is made by Columbian. Its actually a 206M3 If one shops around for the Reed model, you might find it is cheaper then the Columbian. I have a Columbian 205M3 and its a brute. The spindle handle dia is just under 1" .979 , bigger then Wilton's C3 and the threads for the side handles are 7/8"
On the 4 1/2" model, Columbian has one swivel handle, their Reed equivalent has dual handles

 

[454ragtop]

Geez, can you guys give me a little credit....
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6021014#post6021014

 

[va.grouseman]

Agreed 454, you came up with the technique, and you deserve the credit, but the new normal dictates that someone on up the line gets the credit and a bonus for that stroke of brilliance.---Sorry man, that's just the way it is.

 

[454ragtop]

agreed 454, you came up with the technique, and you deserve the credit, but the new normal dictates that someone on up the line gets the credit and a bonus for that stroke of brilliance.---sorry man, that's just the way it is.:d

lol!!!

 

[drivesitfar]

454: no offense, but Getridofone mentioned it to me before your post. as you can see two posts later on the link you provided he posted a picture of the method he uses. he puts a bit in the jaw screw threads and then closes the jaws on it and then turns the bit with a wrench. i'm guessing that's the same method you use?

ALL: picture of Getridofone's method we are discussing.

also while I was looking for older posts of Getridofone's I couldn't get any past 2016, but I did find one with pics of the jack screw he made to remove swivel jaw pins that are not threaded.

cheers and yep it's a SNOW DAY here!!