Between 485 & 705 SQ/FT Mid-Century Moto Mecca Makeover

[sakurama]

too quiet around here....means he is typing up the Bridgeport story...

Oh jeez, I wish.

When Lara is here she forces me to work on the house - not by nagging but by example. She cleans, she rakes, she picks up around the yard. Things I can be bad at because I want to do things perfectly and when that's not an option I don't do them. Sigh.

I wish I had photos of the Bridgeport move. Here's the thing: since making the decision to start YouTube I've been thinking in terms of video. Trying to get my head around the process, the gear, the whole thing. Yes, I have yet to make my first video but it's pretty much all I'm thinking about now. And so I am not taking still photos.

Case in point - the day we moved the Bridgeport I didn't take a single still image. It amazes even me. This is a frame grab from an iPhone video - the only one that I shot horizontally. I've gotten used to shooting Instagram stories in vertical and things I deem of passing interest I'll shoot for IG but stills have sort of fallen by the wayside.

And that *****.

Anyway, for those who aren't on IG the move of the mill went very well. We had only one scare when I unhooked the trailer and the mill was past the axle and the trailer instantly tipped up in front. We'd blocked the wheels and then used the van's winch to ease the mill down. When we got to the last part we couldn't get the pallet jack's small wheels over the steel lip on the trailer so we called our neighbor and legendary guitar maker Saul Koll. Judiaann couldn't help herself, "Better call Saul!" Saul and I have exchanged messages a few times but hadn't met until I texted him to see if he could help unload the Bridgeport. He flew to the shop on his Vespa in minutes! I don't know if we could have done it without him.

So in order to get the mill into the shop I had to move the rest of the motorcycles into the living room and the yard but the mill landed safely in the shop and has stayed there. I have a VFD and three DRO scales from ebay waiting to go but I can't place the mill unless I completely revamp the shop. I can't revamp the shop without fixing or replacing the garage door. I can't just buy a new garage door because I need that ceiling space back so I need to make one...

It's like those sliding puzzles you had when you were a kid. To move one thing 10 other things need to be moved and each of those require 10 things to be done or moved.

So I closed my eyes and decided to finish the last project.

We had to slightly shave down the blocks we screwed into the wall as gluing the shelves together tightened them ever so slightly. But the shelves went on perfectly and then, for cleanliness and strength, we caulked the entire perimeter of the shelf and the lower cabinets.

To hide the wires of the TV I bought one of those kits that... hides the wires. It seems like it would be simple to do on your own but this is a clean solution. You punch two holes in-between studs and then install recessed boxes with a power wire. If I had not changed my mind about the shelves I might have decided to do this before I put the cabinets in.

I used the Fien tool to cut out the back of the cabinet and luckily it was flush to the wall. Surprise! There was no insulation in this wall - one of the few that wasn't opened up. I could have them shot with foam but this room is very stable temp wise so it's no big deal.

I eschewed a store bought TV mount and instead simply screwed a french cleat into the mounting holes on the back of the TV and another on the wall.

And that was that. The shelves look a little sparse but I'm guessing they'll look much better once there's books on them...

So now we head to the cottage to find the boxes of books that have been in storage for the last 7 years. Many boxes of junk have gone to good will and we probably could have saved a bundle when we moved if we'd done this purge before. Nonetheless the cottage is another collection of tiles that needs to be moved, sorted, organized before the books are found.

What's interesting about our book collection is just how technical it is. Mine is about 50% motorcycle related and 30% machining and fabrication with 5% dedicated to Bonsai and the last bit to "literature". Judiaann is about 70% cookbooks and 30% literature. Her literature is without quotes however.

Interestingly I would put books on the shelf and then check for deflection. More books and check again. More and more and more and they are not light books. I'd guess there's about 70lbs on that top shelf - maybe more. Still no deflection. I'm amazed.

So the house is a mess. The books are mess. The yard is a mess and it feels like I've gone backwards and not forwards. While the Bridgeport is a fair bit larger than the Rockwell it's disruptive presence is outsized. It is also forcing me to reconsider the shop and it's purpose and function.

All the while I'm trying to learn Premier and teach myself video. I've come to realize that I've painted myself into a corner and so I'm looking to hire someone who can help me get the YouTube thing started. Hopefully next week we'll have a plan for that and be able to get that going if I can afford the help.

To prove that I've been making an honest effort I spent 8 hours to edit this 48 second clip of Lara and I taking a day off and going riding: https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Ts92rLC/0/8f10294f/1920/i-Ts92rLC-1920.mp4

It's filled with mistakes but it's also filled with a lot of lessons and a lot of learning.

So, sorry to be so quiet. When I can't see the solution to something I tend to get quiet until I can figure it out. I'm not there yet but I do see some light.

Gregor

 

[SW50th]

It was great to finally meet you, Lara and Judiaann in person!
I'm glad you called. You had such an excellent plan and equipment for that Mill move, it was easy.
Looking forward to a less chaotic day and maybe have that beverage, maybe talk tools and motorbikes.
Let me know if you need a hand with that door, or anything else. I still can't believe how close our houses are! Cheers, see you around neighbor-

 

[Chortler]

Awesome to see an update, Gregor!

I understand the internal pressure to do the absolute best work possible, but I also find respite in going easy on myself. That feels even better, and actually gives me some psychic room to expand.

I am however, a bit jealous of your relationship with your sister. You seem to enjoy each other's company in an easy going and appreciative way. That is a real blessing. You seem to be real buddies.

My sister is a long ways away and we dont enjoy the same things, even if we lived closer together. Though I feel a tension to be closer to her, I am not sure how to do it.

Thanks for the good vibes; you have a real positive impact on people's lives who appreciate your work, images, and words.

 

[rXc3NtR1c]

I'm a lurker, I enjoy watching you do your stuff both as inspiration and instruction. However, Fantastic Mr Fox is comment worthy lol, I don't know how many times I seen it in the last few years.

Whistle whistle, click click

 

[GrantT]

To prove that I've been making an honest effort I spent 8 hours to edit this 48 second clip of Lara and I taking a day off and going riding: https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Ts92rLC/0/8f10294f/1920/i-Ts92rLC-1920.mp4

It's filled with mistakes but it's also filled with a lot of lessons and a lot of learning.

I love that your 'filled with mistakes' has a better production quality than 95% of YouTube

 

[Choirboy]

Interesting choice to change video shots timed with the anacrusis at the beginning and the downbeat towards the end. Gives a very subtle drive and build to the opening sequence by jumping where the expected change is, transitioning to a more relaxed feel when you have the longer lasting shots later on. If this was intentional then I'm super impressed. Actually I'm already super impressed; agree with the above comment that this is already better than 95% of the stuff on Youtube. Well done.

 

[bdbecker]

...I can't place the mill unless I completely revamp the shop. I can't revamp the shop without fixing or replacing the garage door. I can't just buy a new garage door because I need that ceiling space back so I need to make one...

Have you considered the idea that you probably don't need a full size conventional door on your garage? Perhaps you could get by with removing the existing door and framing in the opening. Then you could install a set of extra wide double doors that swing outward, or maybe even a full height sliding door so you would have plenty of room for moving bikes and equipment in and out of the space. Besides getting rid of the headroom issue, it could give you more wall space to play around with when trying to sort out your optimal layout of the space. You could try to keep the original framing in place so if you ever decided down the road that you wanted to revert to a conventional door, it would just be a few hours worth of demo to have it prepped for a new garage door.

You may have entertained this thought already, but I figured I'd toss it out there just in case...

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

I have a feeling we're going to see some new posts about a hangar door.

 

[mr_magicfingers]

If that's your 'filled with mistakes' first production, man I can't wait until you have it at a level you think is reasonably proficient. Most everyone else would is aiming for what you think is full of mistakes. That goes for most things you seem to do

 

[Finallygotit]

^^^^^^


What he said! That was excellent.

 

[douglawrence42]

Wow! That little clip was full on production quality. I think they usually have whole crews to make something like that. I’ve got no background, qualifications, or desire to tell you your business. But I’m worried that if that’s the quality standard you’re holding yourself to, we’re probably only getting a few minutes of video a year. Remember perfect is the enemy of good enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[polexican23]

Gregor trying to win an Oscar on his youtube videos.

 

[Choirboy]

Wow! That little clip was full on production quality. I think they usually have whole crews to make something like that. I’ve got no background, qualifications, or desire to tell you your business. But I’m worried that if that’s the quality standard you’re holding yourself to, we’re probably only getting a few minutes of video a year. Remember perfect is the enemy of good enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I've learned something through this thread, it is that Gregor doesn't seem to grasp the concept of perfect is the enemy of good enough. Or, rather, his idea of "good enough" is usually another persons "better than perfect." It has led to some impressive things on this thread, and more I'm sure that we haven't seen. I mean, just a single example, that last batch of cabinets that were within 1mm over an entire wall? I guarantee you that is better than 99.99% of professional high end contractors out there.
But, seriously, don't be too hard on yourself Gregor, that clip looks good, well beyond what the average human considers "good enough."

 

[Hawk136439]

Glad to see you back at this thread and flying along with learning the video side as well! If you are looking for some more youtube inspiration I have added a few channels I frequent that have some interesting takes on showing how to make something on video. First (at the risk of showing you a new hobby) is Alec Steele He has a black smithing channel and regularly matches his hammer blows to the beat of the music in his time lapses. Second is TA Outdoors who has built some impressive "bushcraft' shelters using only hand tools. many of his videos start with a time lapse or building montage? completely void of talking or explanation until the the job is done.

I know you didnt ask for advise or input but your video reminded me of the well timed(edited) hammer blows and I thought your attention to detail could lend itself to the zen like intros of the TA Outdoors videos.

Also I spent about 4 hours editing a 15 second intro to a mtb video once and completely relate to your mention of hours of work to make a 48 second video!

 

[sakurama]

First of all, thanks for the comments and compliments. Yes, you're right that perfect is the enemy of good enough and my good enough is the enemy of getting **** done. Both Ben and Lara are examples for me of people who are really good at actually getting things done.

So that clip was my attempt to quit whining and just sit down in front of the computer and make a video from start to finish. I felt good about it and yes, the timing thing was intentional so I'm glad that worked. Music alone can take hours to search through because the music you can use, from the subscriptions services, have absolutely no references to normal musical culture. If you like Beck try this - is not an option. Nothing you're used to about picking music is there. There's categories but they're hardly helpful.

Anyway, I set a deadline of the intro video for two weeks or the end of the month and I'll be working on that with a freelance editor. Just like learning to weld I want to just sit with someone good and watch them and absorb.

And now...

Have you considered the idea that you probably don't need a full size conventional door on your garage? Perhaps you could get by with removing the existing door and framing in the opening. Then you could install a set of extra wide double doors that swing outward, or maybe even a full height sliding door so you would have plenty of room for moving bikes and equipment in and out of the space. Besides getting rid of the headroom issue, it could give you more wall space to play around with when trying to sort out your optimal layout of the space. You could try to keep the original framing in place so if you ever decided down the road that you wanted to revert to a conventional door, it would just be a few hours worth of demo to have it prepped for a new garage door.

You may have entertained this thought already, but I figured I'd toss it out there just in case...

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

My friend Jeremy, also a former architect and now a lead creative at Nike, came over to look at the shop and see if he could provide some insights that I couldn't see and that was his suggestion. It honestly didn't occur to me but it makes perfect sense. Putting tools against another wall would give me more floor space, more tool space and also more ceiling space once that godawful garage door is gone.

Yes, I was thinking about a Bifold but that might be easier with a smaller door or I may be able to get away with just a simple door. Either way I will ask Ben about it when I see him next because he's good at pointing me towards the simpler solution.

So, love that idea, great minds must think alike. I'm excited to add another project to my list! Where's the rolling eyes emoji...

Gregor

 

[sakurama]

Also...

In thinking about this and the perfect being the enemy of the good. It's not that I want to make something perfect although it may seem like that. I compromise all the time. It's that I want to challenge myself. The Youtube channel is for you - the people that want to watch and see what I can teach them. The actual videos? Those are for me. They are all challenges to me. To see a different way, to convert my way of seeing into motion, to explore the element of time as it relates to photography.

You're totally right - I could easily make a video and put it out there but that would be like work to me. I chose my career because I didn't ever want to actually work for a living. Work being defined as repetitive tasks I find unenjoyable.

So the other night Judiaann and I were watching the last season of Chef's Table on Netflix and I told her, "That. That is what I want my YouTube to be." She rolled her eyes.

I don't mean filled with production value but creative. Just like here I don't have a client to please so I want to play with this new medium, explore and test ideas. I want to copy things I see on Chef's Table and break whatever rules I want but also try the things that I want to experiment with. If I'm lucky it will be good. But if it's not I'll still be happy because I'm trying to stretch myself creatively.

So that's my way of saying "good enough" might just be the enemy of creativity.

Gregor

 

[douglawrence42]

Your absolutely right. I was wrapped up in the idea that more information about what Gregor is doing, what he learned and what he would change for next time would be something I’d absolutely watch, to hell with the production value. The information was the prize for me, not the presentation. But if building videos is itself another build, well then you should do you, and build something new and great. Best of luck, can’t wait to see what you come up with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BORING HOP YARD]

Gregor, I think your spot on with your comments about "perfect" "good" and "good enough".
I think the key words are "challenging yourself" and doing your best.
It sounds like you want to push your creative side to a higher level than your currently at. My opinion, the only way to get there is to perform at the higher level, which means doing your best. I think the consensus of the group is the higher level is well within your grasp.
I hate the term "good enough", it flat doesn't work on street cars, race cars, airplanes or robots. I have seen "good enough" be the root cause of failures first hand many times.
I feel the same why about challenging myself when fabricating / welding with the skills and quality of my work.
I always want to fabricate at a higher level with the highest quality.

 

[lilscorpion]

2 things:

1) I'd not be able to sleep until the mill was set in it's new spot. Seriously, I'd stay up all night if I had to.

2) I can't believe you could build up enough inertia to work on the family room (space) with the mill not in it's new spot.

Priorities dude, priorities.

 

[Choirboy]

Gregor, I think your spot on with your comments about "perfect" "good" and "good enough".
I think the key words are "challenging yourself" and doing your best.
It sounds like you want to push your creative side to a higher level than your currently at. My opinion, the only way to get there is to perform at the higher level, which means doing your best. I think the consensus of the group is the higher level is well within your grasp.
I hate the term "good enough", it flat doesn't work on street cars, race cars, airplanes or robots. I have seen "good enough" be the root cause of failures first hand many times.
I feel the same why about challenging myself when fabricating / welding with the skills and quality of my work.
I always want to fabricate at a higher level with the highest quality.

Nice post. As a teacher I am constantly working with individuals about goals and goal setting, learning, increasing of skills, assessment of performance and ability, etc. There is a distinct difference between being a prisoner of the fear of failure/imperfection and being driven to learn and express at a higher level. One is dangerous and self defeating, the other empowering and the gateway to truly great things. I'm glad to know that you, Gregor, fall into the later category.

 

[Finallygotit]

2 things:

1) I'd not be able to sleep until the mill was set in it's new spot. Seriously, I'd stay up all night if I had to.

2) I can't believe you could build up enough inertia to work on the family room (space) with the mill not in it's new spot.

Priorities dude, priorities.

You and I have a lot in common.

 

[sakurama]

2 things:

1) I'd not be able to sleep until the mill was set in it's new spot. Seriously, I'd stay up all night if I had to.

2) I can't believe you could build up enough inertia to work on the family room (space) with the mill not in it's new spot.

Priorities dude, priorities.

Dude...

It kills me. I can't even look in that corner of the shop. But in order to move all the stuff I'd have to leave things in the driveway. My guess is that changing the garage door would mean a permit and that's something I really need Ben's advice on. I have been fiddling with it, scrubbing a little here or there and occasionally just giving it a hug.

I'm also treating this as the opportunity to make my new table so I may try to drag my table out and have it blanchard ground while this is all happening. At least that would be making use of down time.

Gregor

 

[SW50th]

Dude...

"But in order to move all the stuff I'd have to leave things in the driveway."

Gregor

"Luckily" we've been blessed with a week of rain, so this option is out of the question, buying you precious time.

 

[sakurama]

"Luckily" we've been blessed with a week of rain, so this option is out of the question, buying you precious time.

Ha, Saul, that is so true. And Ben is on vacation as well. Well, the cottage is almost organized and I'm going to clean up the shop this afternoon so I'll make use of the time.

G

 

[pav]

I hate the term "good enough", it flat doesn't work on street cars, race cars, airplanes or robots. I have seen "good enough" be the root cause of failures first hand many times.

Everything created is always "good enough" its just everyones acceptable level of good enough is different. Good enough is a personal tolerance that we all work to. You say you work to a higher standard, your high standard of work is your good enough.

 

[myamoto1]

Everything created is always "good enough" its just everyones acceptable level of good enough is different. Good enough is a personal tolerance that we all work to. You say you work to a higher standard, your high standard of work is your good enough.

How true! My wife always tells me 80/20 rule on small projects around the house. I keep telling her, that is MY 80/20. Unfortunately, my 80/20 is 110/20 to a lot of folks.

 

[lilscorpion]

You and I have a lot in common.

Yeah brother! Sometimes I think I'm broken...then I realize I'd really just rather be building stuff in my shop.

 

[lilscorpion]

Dude...

It kills me. I can't even look in that corner of the shop. But in order to move all the stuff I'd have to leave things in the driveway. My guess is that changing the garage door would mean a permit and that's something I really need Ben's advice on. I have been fiddling with it, scrubbing a little here or there and occasionally just giving it a hug.

I'm also treating this as the opportunity to make my new table so I may try to drag my table out and have it blanchard ground while this is all happening. At least that would be making use of down time.

Gregor

I'd offer help but I gotta be honest, it took me almost 5 years to find the ideal spot for mine in the shop and it was SO obvious...good luck. Once it's up and running you'll look back and it'll be no big deal. Until then, go get another hug.

 

[rk_tek]

I’ve found that over time I’ve become rather selective in my YouTube content. There are some people who have excellent information in their videos and the quality is good enough. Then there is the next level. Clickspring and Frank Howarth come to mind. Project Binky is one that appears simplistic on the surface, but there’s countless hours of planning (and takes) that go into everything they do.

 

[lilscorpion]

I’ve found that over time I’ve become rather selective in my YouTube content. There are some people who have excellent information in their videos and the quality is good enough. Then there is the next level. Clickspring and Frank Howarth come to mind. Project Binky is one that appears simplistic on the surface, but there’s countless hours of planning (and takes) that go into everything they do.

The makers thing has gotten old to me. Half of the content out there isn’t original, the personalities are forgettable, and the “oh look, I got something for free from a company in the mail” is almost off-putting. Don’t get me started on April Wilkerson. When the opposite is true, I do find enjoyment.

Frank Howard’s shop is beyond amazing and that guys is really creative and quite the character in a very unique way.

Gregor should be capturing his shop time as we speak. I think people would appreciate his mill move-in dilemma and maybe his wife giving him a hard time about buying a machine that he doesn’t (really) have room for. I would.

 

[dr_clyde]

The makers thing has gotten old to me. Half of the content out there isn’t original, the personalities are forgettable, and the “oh look, I got something for free from a company in the mail” is almost off-putting. Don’t get me started on April Wilkerson. When the opposite is true, I do find enjoyment.

Frank Howard’s shop is beyond amazing and that guys is really creative and quite the character in a very unique way.

Gregor should be capturing his shop time as we speak. I think people would appreciate his mill move-in dilemma and maybe his wife giving him a hard time about buying a machine that he doesn’t (really) have room for. I would.

I agree. Engaging content and personalities are entertaining and fun to watch, regardless of what they're doing. Watching talented people do what they do best is really fun.

I have moved lots of machinery and equipment, yet I was glued to my Instagram stories watching Gregor and Lara move that Bridgeport.

Youtube is a hard thing, because there are NO production filters. No one ot say, "Stop. That's bad content. Don't publish that." Any old joe can upload. The cream rises though, and the people who understand video and/or content will be at the top.

My favorite youtubers are folks who are either really good at making stuff and happen to film themselves, are very entertaining personalities, are very good at video production, or ideally, all 3.

You occasionally get the unicorns, where they are all 3. Frank Howarth. This Old Tony. Project Binky. Mark Rober. Vsauce. The Slow-Mo Guys. These guys make television that happens to be on Youtube. If they are sponsored, you wouldn't know it. Some of their stuff could be on Discovery or the Science Channel. They are engaging on screen, have fun and interesting content, and have the video production chops to make you forget this was filmed in a backyard with a handheld camera. Some of them DO have real film crews, with real production budgets.

I give a pass with some folks who continually hit 2/3, with the occasional home run. Welding Tips and Tricks, Tom Lipton, Robin Renzetti, Abom79, Jimmy Diresta, these kind of channels. These guys are all very good at what they do, are entertaining, have typically good (although sometimes niche) content, but their videos lack production, polish, and the finesse of the guys who make you forget you're watching youtube. They may have some sponsorships, but they don't let it get in the way of the video. They will fumble with the camera, have sloppy edits, lack music or sound production, or generally be profoundly amateur in their productions. And that's ok, it is youtube. That's what it's for. Broadcast yourself. I watch their videos and get enjoyment out of them.

I don't care for people who make youtube videos and have very little good content and talent, yet somehow have sponsorships and focus more on shilling the product than the content. I won't name names, but you know it when you see it.

Watching someone unbox their "sponsored" tools from whoever is a real downer. I just don't care about big company marketing ****. It's distracting, not very interesting, and very transparently bad marketing. It's especially a turn off when you get someone who is otherwise really good at their trade suddenly stop and be like "everlast/dewalt/triton/linclon/whoever sent us these tools, they're really great and we're gonna pretend we've never even seen any other tools, even ones I already own and use".

Being sponsored by tool companies is tricky to do without being a total shill. Its a fine line. This Old House takes tool sponsorships, and you wouldn't really notice, because Tommy doesn't stop, hold up his screwgun and say to the camera, "Festool sent us this really great screwgun, we love Festool, thanks for the free tools", they just build nice houses and you see them using Festool. Tommy also is the kind of guy that will use the tool he wants, not just what they sent him.

Gregor, I am excited for your youtube channel. You've got the stuff. You know your way around the camera. You have content that is very good. You are fun to watch. You're gonna kill it.

 

[rk_tek]

@ Lilscorpion & dr_clyde
I think many of the people in this thread probably have similar tastes in YouTube content and the quality of those channels. Dr_clyde listed a few that I do still watch, but their sponsorships are starting to be pushed more and more. I quit watching Discovery and Speed when the shows became about the people and products and the content became scripted. I wanted to see the car/boat/alligator, not fighting with coworkers. I can go to work for that and get paid.

Some YouTube channels go against the grain and refuse the sponsorships and put the content out there because it’s a hobby for them not a full time gig. They’re usually good for a laugh as well.

As Gregor starts building bikes, i’m sure sponsors will come along. As long as the content remains being about the bikes(watches/guns/bread/toilet paper/mechanical pencils) and not a schill for a company, it will be on my subscribe list.

 

[vr4joe]

WOW! a Gregor YouTube Channel will be unbelievable! I'm very excited to see this!

 

[jeffmoss26]

looking forward to the YT channel!!

 

[goonz]

i've just joined GJ from the North Coast of Ireland, and have spent the past few days literally consumed by this thread, i do not know where to even start with how good it is and the work that you do is!!
I am about to move into my fifth ever workshop and for the first time in years I am downsizing, my build thread is already destined to look caveman like in comparison lol

absolutely awesome work Gregor!!

 

[dwysywd]

Have you registered a name for YT yet? If so, I bet everyone following this thread will subscribe before you make one official post. LoL



Sent from my iPhone using a facsimile machine.

 

[rk_tek]

Gregor's YouTube channel can be found here.

 

[dwysywd]

Gregor's YouTube channel can be found here.

Subscribed



Sent from my iPhone using a facsimile machine.

 

[polexican23]

324 subsribers and not one video. can you imagine what will happen when he actually has content?

 

[sakurama]

324 subsribers and not one video. can you imagine what will happen when he actually has content?

You jokers.

I kept getting emails today from Youtube about subscribers and I'm like, "What the heck happened today?" and then I see this got bumped. Ha.

So I'm working with a local guy and we've edited the talking part down. Turns out talking is hard. And now we're trying to get the B-roll together. I made another short edit on my own from the weekends dual sport event in Washington - it's on Instagram. I am slightly quicker but I also didn't try as hard to make it perfect so I was able to shave 4 hours off the edit.

Interestingly I'm not all that fond of the way it was shot so far because it feels too "produced" like I'm on PBS or something. No worries. It will get better as I go. So much equipment that requires so much learning. It's a steep learning curve but I'm getting the hang of it.

Gregor