Another Air Compressor Thread

[trpearcy]

Duty cycle matters, and there are a couple of definitions that are used to describe duty cycle. I would not be that concerned about duty cycle unless your compressor is "always" running.

How often does the compressor run during the day?

With my 240 gallon setup, I can do multiple brake jobs and tire rotations before they even think about coming on. If I need to cut a collar and bearing off an axle shaft, the tanks might drop 20 psi but they still don't need to come on to do the job if the tanks were filled... When do they do come on, one takes about 6 minutes to fill the tanks from 140 to 175 and both running together take about 3 minutes...

Duty cycle matters more depending on the size of the shop and how many guys are always using air. A production tire shop where there are production mandates and guys are taking alternating lunches and always running tire machines and impacts is a bit different than a smaller 1-2 man shop doing general automotive work.

What describes your situation?

I’m a 1 man show. I do run some intensive tools, like a couple 1HP air grinders, but it’s not terrible.
With my old setup, one 60 gal Husky, the compressor was constantly running if I was using air tools. The one full day I had using the Jenny, it was running a LOT less then the Husky, and it would catch up, and then turn off while I was still using the tools. So I’m sure with 3 tanks, it’ll run a lot less frequently.
The main thing I was concerned about was from things I’ve read on other forums. People saying that adding too many tanks to a system is really trying on the master compressor. But since I’m adding once slave compressor, That should help a lot also.
But ya, the Husky ran a lot. 3-4 hours a day strait depending on the jobs I was doing. If I did a couple sets of tires and had to clean up the beads, and then maybe clean up a set of cylinder heads, or something else where I was using air tools a lot, it would just run non stop until I was done.
I think with the Jenny and the husky, and then a 3rd tank to catch water, I’ll be set for my air system for a long time.
Those little Husky’s are good compressors. I defiantly got my money’s worth. Got it on sale for $475, and it’s gotten a lot of use. I added an auto drain, and then changed air filters and oil once a month, and it never failed me. But the it’s getting worn out.

 

[trpearcy]

I would follow the compressor break in cycle. Then use top dollar synthetic air compressor lube (Jenny Ultimate Blue, ChampLub Synthetic) which costs around $28 a quart and is good for 5000-8000 hours. The cheaper mineral oil maybe $25 a gallon but not good for nearly as long...300 hours? Since compressors are often purchased and forgotten until they stop working, I think the synthetic lube is money well spent. Also pay attention to the air filters. Jenny uses Solberg as the OEM for filters as do many others. Check and replace as needed. No need to buy air filters from Jenny. I don't have a part number handy for the particular air filters on your compressor, but I'd be shocked if you couldn't find it in the Solberg catalog and available from Zoro or Amazon are a good price.

Oh damn. Didn’t realize the expensive oil was that much better. Defiantly will be doing that for this new compressor, and next time I change the old one I’ll probably use that stuff also

 

[md21722]

I’m a 1 man show. I do run some intensive tools, like a couple 1HP air grinders, but it’s not terrible.
With my old setup, one 60 gal Husky, the compressor was constantly running if I was using air tools. The one full day I had using the Jenny, it was running a LOT less then the Husky, and it would catch up, and then turn off while I was still using the tools. So I’m sure with 3 tanks, it’ll run a lot less frequently.
The main thing I was concerned about was from things I’ve read on other forums. People saying that adding too many tanks to a system is really trying on the master compressor. But since I’m adding once slave compressor, That should help a lot also.
But ya, the Husky ran a lot. 3-4 hours a day strait depending on the jobs I was doing. If I did a couple sets of tires and had to clean up the beads, and then maybe clean up a set of cylinder heads, or something else where I was using air tools a lot, it would just run non stop until I was done.
I think with the Jenny and the husky, and then a 3rd tank to catch water, I’ll be set for my air system for a long time.
Those little Husky’s are good compressors. I defiantly got my money’s worth. Got it on sale for $475, and it’s gotten a lot of use. I added an auto drain, and then changed air filters and oil once a month, and it never failed me. But the it’s getting worn out.

My biggest consumers of air are my 1 HP air angle grinders which I sometimes use for short periods of time, and other times where I'm cutting off axle brackets, and wire wheeling for paint, they may run for quite a while... by the time I'm ready for a break the compressors are too . Not like you're at a shipyard where they do this all day everyday...

I'm sure you'll be fine as a one man shop.

It's common practice to set one compressor about 5 psi lower than the other compressor so if the primary can't keep up the secondary will come on. In a duplex configuration with identical compressors, and an alternating switch, they will actually alternate which pump runs and both will only run if air demand requires it. For smaller shops, the same can be accomplished with an adjustment of the pressure switch or even flipping the breaker.

 

[trpearcy]

So, for my 3rd tank, would any size work? Like if I got a smaller 20 gal tank, would that work? Or does it need to be a bit bigger?

 

[bsaint]

Did you figure the math yet of what you needed for a tank? Its usually calculated. Also Jenny (formerly Emglo) is a kick *** compressors. Engineered very well. I used to run a GU pump in my shop (You have the J pump). They are not pressure lubricated. What you are seeing is a centrifical unloader valve. But they don't need to be. They are made way better than the Tractor Supply **** Ingersoll rands.

http://www.jennyproductsinc.com/manuals/JPump.pdf

Note item 77

 

[trpearcy]

Did you figure the math yet of what you needed for a tank? Its usually calculated. Also Jenny (formerly Emglo) is a kick *** compressors. Engineered very well. I used to run a GU pump in my shop (You have the J pump). They are not pressure lubricated. What you are seeing is a centrifical unloader valve. But they don't need to be. They are made way better than the Tractor Supply **** Ingersoll rands.

http://www.jennyproductsinc.com/manuals/JPump.pdf

Note item 77

Ok, interesting info.
Ya, another guy mentioned that it wasn’t pressure lube. I guess I misunderstood what I had seen about compressor pumps.
The specifics of these pumps are not at all my specialty. Learning as I go. I’ve learned a lot of interesting info about compressors and air systems from this forum, and from this thread

I haven’t done the math yet, other then using other people’s systems as a metric for building my own. When I started the biz I had to run it off what I had, and now that I’m busy and have cash flow, I’m rebuilding the system so that it’s more suited for what I do. And so I’m never left stranded without air, which happened this week when the Husky took a dump. I never realized how much I used air until I didn’t have it. Customer pulled up, asked if I could patch a tire for him, and I was like, sure, no problem. Go hit the pedal on the tire machine to break the bead, damn. Forgot. No air.

 

[md21722]

So, for my 3rd tank, would any size work? Like if I got a smaller 20 gal tank, would that work? Or does it need to be a bit bigger?

I used what I had available which was a 60. A smaller one may work just fine. I'm not sure. I'm also not sure how to calculate. Most folks I know who run this type of setup use larger tanks for the extra air storage as well. I have heard of some using smaller ones for painting and it worked fine for their needs.

 

[Citation]

Ok so on a completely different note, I have looked at the option of putting my old 60 gal comp in the system as a secondary compressor, with the pressure switch set lower then the main compressor's switch. I have read that a check valve would be needed. No problem to add that, but any other advice?
The car dealership I worked at had 2 120 gal compressors wired together, and the newer one was the main compressor, and then the older one was the secondary that only came on when pressure significantly dropped in the system. They had zero check valves. Just a "manifold" where both compressors were plumbed to

You need to verify that both compressors have the same tank and blow off valve ratings. Those two items ensure that you won't have a case where one compressor overfills the other. If they are different then you need to replace the higher pressure blow off valve to be the same as the lower one and then adjust the pressure switch accordingly.

Assuming they are both the same, I would plum both together and verify that you set the Jenny to come on first (higher kick in pressure) and turn off last (higher kick out pressure). That will ensure the Husky only helps when the Jenny can't keep up with demand AND when that demand drops the pressure below the Husky's lower kick in pressure. The rest of the time the extra 60 gallons will result in the Jenny running longer and going longer between cycles.

 

[Citation]

So, for my 3rd tank, would any size work? Like if I got a smaller 20 gal tank, would that work? Or does it need to be a bit bigger?

With a bit of plumbing you could send the output of the Husky right into the Jenny tank. Then the Husky tank would be used as an in series tank (output of Jenny into Husky then Husky out to the rest of your system. To make this work you might need a few pipe bushings since you don't want to T the tanks together, rather you want both pumps to dump directly into the 80 gallon tank (with check valves on both of course) then you want the outlet of the 80 to go into the 60 then use a different outlet from the 60 to your air line. The idea is you want the air to flow through the 60 gallon tank, not just T to the tank.

You still get 140 gallons of air and you don't have to get a 3rd tank.

 

[md21722]

With a bit of plumbing you could send the output of the Husky right into the Jenny tank. Then the Husky tank would be used as an in series tank (output of Jenny into Husky then Husky out to the rest of your system. To make this work you might need a few pipe bushings since you don't want to T the tanks together, rather you want both pumps to dump directly into the 80 gallon tank (with check valves on both of course) then you want the outlet of the 80 to go into the 60 then use a different outlet from the 60 to your air line. The idea is you want the air to flow through the 60 gallon tank, not just T to the tank.

You still get 140 gallons of air and you don't have to get a 3rd tank.

I actually don't recommend this. For one, the direct pump output needs to be able to withstand high temperatures - so a braided flexible hose or flexible copper tubing. Then you have the effects of two pumps trying to pump into the same input hole in the tank which can have some issues, not to mention voiding warranty on the a brand new compressor. If this was a duplex compressor where you have a large vertical tank with two pumps, they'd be dumping into opposite sides of the tank through separate ports.

Citation does bring up a point I didn't specifically address. I *always* recommend a blow off valve on each tank. The blow off valve should NOT be valved. So if you get a 3rd tank, you'd screw the blow off/overpressure valve where the pressure switch would go. I would also put a pressure gauge on the 3rd tank. Depending on the number of ports on the tank, you can T the blow off and pressure valve into one port, or use separate ports.

 

[Citation]

I actually don't recommend this. For one, the direct pump output needs to be able to withstand high temperatures - so a braided flexible hose or flexible copper tubing. Then you have the effects of two pumps trying to pump into the same input hole in the tank which can have some issues, not to mention voiding warranty on the a brand new compressor. If this was a duplex compressor where you have a large vertical tank with two pumps, they'd be dumping into opposite sides of the tank through separate ports.

Citation does bring up a point I didn't specifically address. I *always* recommend a blow off valve on each tank. The blow off valve should NOT be valved. So if you get a 3rd tank, you'd screw the blow off/overpressure valve where the pressure switch would go. I would also put a pressure gauge on the 3rd tank. Depending on the number of ports on the tank, you can T the blow off and pressure valve into one port, or use separate ports.

Sorry, I should have made it clear, I meant both pumps filling the common tank through separate inlets like a duplex setup, not into a T into a common inlet. It does assume the tank has a port that can be used as a second inlet. I also agree, you would have to use copper tubing due to the pump outlet temperatures.

 

[trpearcy]

Ok. So, I need to draw up a little diagram of how I’m gonna plumb this, and have you guys give me some input. Pop off valves are already installed on both tanks, and They are both the same.
I’m having braided hoses made for all of this plumbing between the compressors, and they’re high PSI, high temp hoses.
So, basically, if I’m understanding correctly, I could route the Jenny into the side of the Husky, and then out the other side of the Husky the outlet to shop air system. To avoid adding a third tank..... OR. If I wanted to add a third tank: Route the 2 compressors into a T, or manifold, and then one line from those into the top of the 3rd tank, and then the output to shop air out of the side of that tank. Correct?

 

[md21722]

The key point is you want the benefit of it air coming in one area of the tank and out the other. This way you get the benefit of the expansion and dropping water.

You only need the high temp braided hoses or flexible copper on the output of the pump to the tank. You can use plain rubber hose between tanks - the air will be cool enough.

 

[trpearcy]

Ok, I understand.
I went out and looked at the Husky, and it has one tank outlet on the side of the tank.
So I’m going to have to run each compressor to a manifold and then that to a 3rd tank


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[trpearcy]

So since I have everyone’s attention..... I’m going to build a room around my compressors for sound. Obviously will have vents and a fan for ventilation and cooling. Has anybody else done this, and if so, what did you do right, and what do you wish you had done?


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[trpearcy]

So, before I purchased the Jenny, I had bid 480 bucks on this air compressor, and kinda forgot about it. Well. The auction ended and I won it for 475 bucks. So I guess now I’ve got my third tank.
Probably will make this my slave unit, and make the Husky the water tank




Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[md21722]

That's a dual stage air compressor so it might cycle between 140-175 PSI, about 20-25 PSI higher than your new Jenny or old Husky. If that's the case, and you leave it as is, I would check the Husky tank to make sure its rated for 200 PSI and you might/probably will need to change the blow off valves on both tanks. Or adjust the pressure switch down closer to the 150 of the Jenny...

 

[sberry]

You could have saved 2000$.

 

[trpearcy]

You could have saved 2000$.

Yup, I know.
Too late now. Gonna make the most of it, and have a great air system when I’m done with all of this. I never figured I would get that compressor for that cheap. Most of the auctions I’ve been to, the shop compressors go for 800-1000, and I figured that’s where this would end up. Also, I needed shop air, and couldn’t wait. Every day without air in the shop is a day where I can’t make any money.



Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[trpearcy]

That's a dual stage air compressor so it might cycle between 140-175 PSI, about 20-25 PSI higher than your new Jenny or old Husky. If that's the case, and you leave it as is, I would check the Husky tank to make sure its rated for 200 PSI and you might/probably will need to change the blow off valves on both tanks. Or adjust the pressure switch down closer to the 150 of the Jenny...

Ya, I was planning on adjusting the pressure on this IR down closer to the Jenny. Still want the Jenny to be the main compressor. So I’ll set the turn on point of the pressure switch to be 10ish psi lower then the turn on pressure in the Jenny.
So, Jenny is set to 125-150 right now,
So I’m thinking set the IR to 115-135. Would that be the right way to do it?
That way the IR will only come on when usage is high and pressure drops significantly. Which shouldn’t happen very much, because I’m going to be around 220 gal by the time this is all done


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[FTG-05]

With an extra 60 gallon tank in my system that runs in series to the air compressor before hitting the air distribution system, I get no water at my regulator/filters just some fine rust particles from the tanks or black iron pipes...

Before I did this, the bowl of my water separator would start filling and I would get moisture coming out of my high flow air tools.

So for you, I would take both compressors and run them into the top of a 3rd tank, and then the outlet of that tank into your air distribution system.

The extra advantage of all this tank and air is that your air compressors will run longer when they run, but they won't cycle as often. Also there is no power cord or machine to fail.

My system is effectively 7.5 HP on 240 gallons.... and I don't have after coolers on the air compressors themselves. That 3rd tank is good enough for my needs. I don't paint. I have talked to others who use the same concept with great success.

If you are unsure of whether or not this system works for you, you might try adapting your existing Husky compressor to test the idea and figure out what works best for you. I think worst case is you can do both.

This is exactly what I did for my air compressor set up. 80 Gallon main tank then going into my 120 gallon aux tank. I get zero water either at my filter or any of the drops post aux tank.

Pic of set up. Note that since this pic was taken, I've added 30' of 3/4" copper pipe manifold as a further air cooler. It's plumbed between the main tank and aux tank and is attached to the wall behind the main tank.

 

[md21722]

Thanks for sharing FTG-05. Kudos on being part of the big air tank club.

 

[trpearcy]

Compressor system is done. Everything running great, pressures set, pop off valves changed, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Toold_up]

Wow that's a lot of air! Good job!

 

[trpearcy]

Wow that's a lot of air! Good job!

Ya, I realize now that I probably went overboard and should just resell the IR. But I like having a good backup compressor, and there’s no such thing as too much shop air, right?





Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Toold_up]

Ya, I realize now that I probably went overboard and should just resell the IR. But I like having a good backup compressor, and there’s no such thing as too much shop air, right?





Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

Right!