Electricians I need some help, or should I call Ghost busters?

[A34]

Guys, I have the wierdest thing going on with the lights in my garage and attached office. Any ideas on what's happening? Here's the deal:

1) LED Can lights in my office started randomly turning on and off a couple days ago. They are all on one switch and breaker about 12 in total. Turned the switch off and on and it stopped. Has not happened again until today.

2) This afternoon I was in the garage and some of the overheads started doing the same thing. The are not LED but halogen. I looked into the office and could see the LED can lights doing it again also. It went on for a few minutes and then stopped on it's own.

3) This evening I was changing out the garage door wall controllers and it happened again. The left and right bay lights are on different breakers as well as the office. This time I got it on video. See the link below. The video that's 3:38 is the one with all the action, the others has a little, but I was mainly flipping switches trying to see if they affected the lights:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Kf8MoP5nUykDhh7G7


What in the wide world of sports is going on?? the halogens emit a frequency that causes static on the radio, could they also be messing with the lights? Breakers never got hot or tripped. I've had this garage and configuration for 3 years and this is the first time something like this has happened.

What do you guys think is causing this? Should I call Ghost Busters?

 

[Stuart in MN]

Check to see if all those circuits are fed from the same main hot leg in the breaker panel. If they are, it's possible the lug at the top of the panel for that leg is loose, or there could be a loose connection somewhere upstream of that between your house and the utility's transformer.

 

[3olian]

Yeah, pretty much any time you see flickering, especially if they’re LEDs, it’s a pretty good bet to start with checking the quality/tightness of your power connections at critical junctions.

If you just recently put in a new switch, it’s usually a good place to start by checking whether there is a history in complaints RE: that switch model and LED lights, especially if dimmable.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Maybe a voltmeter on those lines to see if 120v is steady or fluctuates?
How far are you from S. Central Va.? We do paranormal investigations.[emoji16]

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

 

[rlitman]

I found a similar problem in a panel with my thermal camera. Instead of the hot leg, it was a screw holding the neutral bar down to a copper bus that connected the two neural bars. The neutral was fed from the right side, and the bar on the left had the bad connection. Most circuits on the left had low draws and still worked, but one exhaust fan wasn’t working.

 

[cybrdyke]

Your lights are set to "Disco Mode". Throw a '70's theme party!!

You have a wiring issue for sure. The highbays are more tolerant of it because they have a driver in there that helps mitigate the effect. You're going to need to check all the connections on black, white and ground, but since they ALL seem to be doing it, I'm thinking the issue is at the panel, like the others have said.
Shared neutrals are often an issue.
Incompatible controls are often an issue (dimmers, sensors, etc...)
Good luck,
CD

 

[A34]

Thanks Guys! I'll look for a loose connection, after disconnecting the power.

So, is there a danger of it arcing and a fire?

 

[cybrdyke]

So, is there a danger of it arcing and a fire?

Any time there is a loose connection, there is a possibility of arcing. Assuming your building hasn't burned down yet, it's probably not real bad. But it's not going to improve or fix itself.
CD

 

[TRWham]

In addition to all wiring connections, be sure to check the connection between the panel bus and the circuit breakers involved. If the bus stab or the clip on the breaker have deteriorated that can cause a loose connection.

 

[bjcouche]

While your lights are in disco mode, sometimes you can do some troubleshooting with your ears. Often arcing like that you can hear, so while the lights are flickering, turn the stereo down and listen closely to your switches and breaker panel.

 

[A34]

While your lights are in disco mode, sometimes you can do some troubleshooting with your ears. Often arcing like that you can hear, so while the lights are flickering, turn the stereo down and listen closely to your switches and breaker panel.

Good point!!

 

[Movover]

Sounds like a bad neutral and its back feeding through the other lighting circuit. I agree with the other posts look at all the connections.

 

[checkthisout]

Do not listen to the above posts. The problem without question is most definitely ghosts.

The ghosts probably loosened up a wire somewhere or perhaps put a dimmer switch. You can check for ghosts with a volt meter on each leg of your service for starters. Then move down the line in the individual circuits.

 

[A34]

Welp, nothing loose in the breaker box. EMC came out and everything to building is good. Guess it's electrician time...…...

 

[checkthisout]

Welp, nothing loose in the breaker box. EMC came out and everything to building is good. Guess it's electrician time...…...

Did you check voltage at the fixtures that are acting up?

 

[A34]

No, it wasn't just one or two, but around 20.

 

[gaetano]

Sorry can't help with the lights, That's a great looking garage.

 

[BillK]

One other thing you could try is a small portable AM radio. Any arcing will be very noticeable if you get close to the source.

 

[A34]

Sorry can't help with the lights, That's a great looking garage.

Thank you sir!

 

[A34]

Sorry can't help with the lights, That's a great looking garage.

One other thing you could try is a small portable AM radio. Any arcing will be very noticeable if you get close to the source.

Never thought of that thanks!

 

[checkthisout]

Never thought of that thanks!

Funny that. I had a chinese power adapter that wrought havoc on a gfci outlet that it wasn't plugged into.

So yeah if voltage checks out then interference from poorly filtered electronics might be another cause.

 

[spudley]

Welp, nothing loose in the breaker box. EMC came out and everything to building is good. Guess it's electrician time...…...

Wondering how this worked out?
I had a similar issue with flickering. As I approached the Square D Breaker Panel I heard a buzzing/crackling sound coming distinctly from one breaker. Pulled the breaker and noticed a wee bit of corrosion on the panel bus bar, so I shut off the main and cleaned it with a wire brush. Put in a new breaker and all seemed good. But a few hours later I noticed a little light flickering again but no noise at the breaker this time, so rather than leave things as is, I moved the breaker to an unused slot and replaced that bad bus spot with a old breaker taped open. I also pulled off every breaker on that side and the bus bar looked fine.
So far so good.
Any thoughts from the pro's?

 

[theoldwizard1]

My daughter's father-in-law told me a horror story about his recently built house. He was adding some more fixtures to the lights in the basement and found that the wires under the nut were NOT twisted before the nut was applied ! He checked a few other outlets and then call the GC and electrician. Sme how he convinced them to come back, pule every outlet/fixture and double check that the wires were TWISTED before the nuts were applied !

This would be a one cause of intermittents. That and back stabs !

 

[mm08822]

My daughter's father-in-law told me a horror story about his recently built house. He was adding some more fixtures to the lights in the basement and found that the wires under the nut were NOT twisted before the nut was applied ! He checked a few other outlets and then call the GC and electrician. Sme how he convinced them to come back, pule every outlet/fixture and double check that the wires were TWISTED before the nuts were applied !

This would be a one cause of intermittents. That and back stabs !

They say "pre-twisting is not required" today. Stupidest thing I've ever read! I just love pulling splices/pigtails out of a box and falling apart on me.

 

[rlitman]

They say "pre-twisting is not required" today. Stupidest thing I've ever read! I just love pulling splices/pigtails out of a box and falling apart on me.

If the wire nut is properly applied, the not pre-twisted wired will end up twisted anyway.

 

[A34]

In my case, it turned out to be an inproperly installed ground that had begun to oxidize and lose contact/ground. Easy fix once found.

 

[nsula_country]

My daughter's father-in-law told me a horror story about his recently built house. He was adding some more fixtures to the lights in the basement and found that the wires under the nut were NOT twisted before the nut was applied ! He checked a few other outlets and then call the GC and electrician. Sme how he convinced them to come back, pule every outlet/fixture and double check that the wires were TWISTED before the nuts were applied !

This would be a one cause of intermittents. That and back stabs !

If you run the wirenut down properly, the wires will twist...

With romex, I finish twisting the nut with linesman pliers.

CT

 

[Falcon67]

If I'm putting in fixtures, etc and I think for one minute that I'll be back to add more, I don't twist. I do twist the ground conductors. I will twist the others if "I ain't going to be back here."

 

[SGKent]

years ago after I bought the house the microwave would show a time reset when other items in the house did not. One day I went out the side door in the garage and as it closed, I heard thru an open window the microwave beep. It had just done a power down and back up. I opened the light switch at the door and the PO had messed with the wires and had done a poor ground connection. Fixed it and that and some other gremlins went away. You could have a bad connection or ground connection any place there is a common connector. My guess would be ground since you say they are on different circuits. You might go around the house lightly pounding switches, breaker panels etc and see if you get any flicker. Think about what you hear and see when the lights do their thing. Are you in any particular part of the house? Shutting any doors? The radio suggestion is a good one. Tune off station.

also if the house was built when Aluminum wire was king then you might have a bigger problem.

 

[mm08822]

If you run the wirenut down properly, the wires will twist...

With romex, I finish twisting the nut with linesman pliers.

CT

If the wire nut is properly applied, the not pre-twisted wired will end up twisted anyway.

Pre-twist first and the IF's go away!

 

[rlitman]

Pre-twist first and the IF's go away!

This is an endless argument, and I disagree. Pre-twisting has its own issues. I’ve seen too many pre-twisted wire nuts burn up too.

Pre-twisting alone does not sufficiently hold the wires together for a good connection (that’s why twisted and taped wires are not acceptable). Pre-twisting does not ensure that the stripped end of all wires line up, so a wire can end up short of the pack and leave copper exposed. Or it can be long, and cause the wire but spring to bind to it, but stop short of wires behind it. That last situation will lead to failure, but if you didn’t pre-twist, then after turning the wire nut, you can pull on each wire, and anything insufficiently connected will slip out. If you pre-twisted, you have now way to know that you screwed up.

 

[mm08822]

This is an endless argument, and I disagree. Pre-twisting has its own issues. I’ve seen too many pre-twisted wire nuts burn up too.

Pre-twisting alone does not sufficiently hold the wires together for a good connection (that’s why twisted and taped wires are not acceptable). Pre-twisting does not ensure that the stripped end of all wires line up, so a wire can end up short of the pack and leave copper exposed. Or it can be long, and cause the wire but spring to bind to it, but stop short of wires behind it. That last situation will lead to failure, but if you didn’t pre-twist, then after turning the wire nut, you can pull on each wire, and anything insufficiently connected will slip out. If you pre-twisted, you have now way to know that you screwed up.

Yes it is.
It all goes back to attention to detail - what people should do and apparently don't do.
I strip each conductor to virtually the same length and line up the insulation of each so i know each is going to get the same amount of copper twisted. Easy enough to see if the insulation of a conductor doesn't line up with the rest, if it doesn't, you screwed up. Trim the twist. Add wire nut.
I'm out.

 

[btdobie]

They say "pre-twisting is not required" today. Stupidest thing I've ever read! I just love pulling splices/pigtails out of a box and falling apart on me.

I can twist a wire nuts onto 14 ga and take it back off and you would not be able to tell if I pre twisted or not because the wire nuts twist it on it's own. 12 ga on the other hand does need to be pretwisted it's just too stiff for a plastic nut. If I get a chance later today I will take a picture to prove it.

 

[rlitman]

I can twist a wire nuts onto 14 ga and take it back off and you would not be able to tell if I pre twisted or not because the wire nuts twist it on it's own. 12 ga on the other hand does need to be pretwisted it's just too stiff for a plastic nut. If I get a chance later today I will take a picture to prove it.

Yep. I get the same result with 12 gauge, but only with the wire nuts with wings, and it's hellish on my fingers. I twist the nut until the insulated part of the wires starts to twist.

 

[btdobie]

Yep. I get the same result with 12 gauge, but only with the wire nuts with wings, and it's hellish on my fingers. I twist the nut until the insulated part of the wires starts to twist.

I use a twister in a drill it really saves fingers and carpel tunnel, but you have to be careful not to over do it. My coworker was recently saying the same thing about the Ideal reds (with wings) working on the 12ga as long as I strip a little more than I do with 14ga. I'm going to do a side by side of that next time I wirenut some 12ga.

 

[rlitman]

I use a twister in a drill it really saves fingers and carpel tunnel, but you have to be careful not to over do it. My coworker was recently saying the same thing about the Ideal reds (with wings) working on the 12ga as long as I strip a little more than I do with 14ga. I'm going to do a side by side of that next time I wirenut some 12ga.

I've seen screwdrivers meant to help too. For me, while I've probably done thousands, its never more than maybe a dozen in a day, so I hardly worry about wearing my fingers out. But if it were my line of work, I'd be re-thinking it.

Regardless, the same amount of torque should be used even if the wires were pre-twisted. When you apply a wire nut, you're winding a conical spring down onto the wires, which forms the mechanical bond. Until sufficient torque is applied, you have insufficient force holding the wire bundle together.

If I didn't already own a lifetime supply of wire nuts, I'd seriously be thinking about push-in connectors.

 

[checkthisout]

This is an endless argument, and I disagree. Pre-twisting has its own issues. I’ve seen too many pre-twisted wire nuts burn up too.

Pre-twisting alone does not sufficiently hold the wires together for a good connection (that’s why twisted and taped wires are not acceptable). Pre-twisting does not ensure that the stripped end of all wires line up, so a wire can end up short of the pack and leave copper exposed. Or it can be long, and cause the wire but spring to bind to it, but stop short of wires behind it. That last situation will lead to failure, but if you didn’t pre-twist, then after turning the wire nut, you can pull on each wire, and anything insufficiently connected will slip out. If you pre-twisted, you have now way to know that you screwed up.

When you pre-twist you strip excessively long, line up the insulation and then twist.

A slight kink is placed so a middle wire doesn't form an axle and not twist with the rest of the conductors.

Once all are clumped together, you then snip the conductors to length and install a wire nut.

Been doing it that way since I was 12 years old.

 

[Paperman]

I had a similar issues years back, odd things would flicker, not on the same breaker. Finally tracked it back to a bad connection at the transformer. If items are on separate breakers, check to see if the affected items are fed from the same incoming leg. If so call your supplier.

 

[threeputt]

That is one cool shop.

I wish I had my 1970 RR back I would like to experience that surge of power one more time.
By the way I bought the 70 model new for $2800 in Feb of that year. I knew what I wanted when I returned from SEA and I bought it. The problem is I didn't know they were going to be this HOT $$$$ as I sold it in 1974.

 

[A34]

Thanks! It's just money, buy another one!