ez-duzit
Well-known member
I see this a lot: people hire professionals to advise them and then ignore that advice.
Detached garage walls bowing
- Thread starter DWinTX
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redneckcharlie
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2009
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- 125
What you are dealing with is not that uncommon when it comes to back yard shops or garages. Its definitely not constructed in the best manner, but that doesn’t mean it’s unsafe. I do alot of remodels where we get into framing such as what your dealing with. The biggest issue I see is the lack of adequate attachment with the rafters to the top plate. Simply installing additional blocking in between your rafters and to the top plate will make a big difference in structural integrity. It’s inexpensive as well, and not time consuming. Once you’ve done that run some strong backs at a diagonal across the ceiling joists. That will take any flex and additional movement that may occur in the future. You’re talking a couple hundred dollars max in lumber and 3-4hrs if ur handy and have the proper equipment. Just because a structure is not plumb, or is out of square, or whatever, does not mean its structurally compromised. You just have to decide if the cosmetic part of it bothers you enough to not look past it. Being a rental property, I’d rock the ceiling, insulate it and call it a day. This is my entryway ceiling in my home. My company does alot of difficult framing details. Dont let the naysayers get to u. They wouldnt thrown good money over bad in your situation either.
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ez-duzit
Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWinTX View Post
I cannot afford to...
Come on! That's the same mantra the original builder used when someone suggested that he do it right.
Originally Posted by DWinTX View Post
I cannot afford to...
Come on! That's the same mantra the original builder used when someone suggested that he do it right.
It's not a mantra for me. There are plenty of things with my primary home that, when I do them, I do them right. I have paid top dollar on occasion to get the best work. The shop here at my main home is a prime example. I did not scrimp on it and I got a high-quality build. To the point that the local inspector commented that he had not seen a build done that well in a long time. I mentioned earlier in this post that that builder overbuilds. You don't get that kind of quality cheap.
It's just not what I want to do with this garage. There are other areas that I'm going to need to work on with this property. It has some drainage issues, it's going to need some work on the foundation (pier and beam) of the main house, better attic ventilation on the main house, etc. Those are things I will not compromise on. But spending the money getting those things done right means I won't have the money to spend to totally rebuild this garage.
It's a matter of prioritizing where the money I have needs to go.
the roof is not the problem, it just a dead load on top of the wall, the 24 is not a problem, many houses are built with 24, the osb ceiling is a very good idea. now the bowing of the wall, its not a load factor but something else. the osb will correct the top of the wall from blowing out. If its attach to the slab, that would handle the bottom, if its attach, I have seen many attach at the sill with cut nails.
it might just be sloppy workmanship from many years ago, never plumb the walls to begin with
if it was me, I keep the 10k and build a 16 inch wall on inside, a week end at time $200 here $ 200 the next month in 2x. that way no jacking, no removable. loose a couple inches space. I leave the roof alone
it might just be sloppy workmanship from many years ago, never plumb the walls to begin with
if it was me, I keep the 10k and build a 16 inch wall on inside, a week end at time $200 here $ 200 the next month in 2x. that way no jacking, no removable. loose a couple inches space. I leave the roof alone
My post #33 asked the question. What's the harm of leaving it alone ?
You said you wanted to store some projects ? It's a rental property. Are you planning on using it regularly ? Make sure that's in the lease.
I'm an "old building guy" -- so .... I have seen my share of poorly built 50 year old outbuildings on 125 year old properties.
You can't "fix" your building. It's a hard thing to tell people after they buy. You can -- stabilize it ... if it even needs it .. but you can't fix it. Basically, that's what the engineer told you. The fix will be more expensive than replacing ..
A bad foundation or slab -- can be fixed if the rest of the building is fine. Bad roof can be fixed if the rest of the building is fine. There is no point in partial fixing that building .. it needs both ... and the walls.
I had this not long ago .. couple bought a property with a barn. They now wanted to take the barn and make it into a guest space and office. Build another storage building (to replace the barn storage) .... I told them to build a new cottage and office ... keep the barn for storage. To get the "barn" ready basically required it to be dismantled.
You said you wanted to store some projects ? It's a rental property. Are you planning on using it regularly ? Make sure that's in the lease.
I'm an "old building guy" -- so .... I have seen my share of poorly built 50 year old outbuildings on 125 year old properties.
You can't "fix" your building. It's a hard thing to tell people after they buy. You can -- stabilize it ... if it even needs it .. but you can't fix it. Basically, that's what the engineer told you. The fix will be more expensive than replacing ..
A bad foundation or slab -- can be fixed if the rest of the building is fine. Bad roof can be fixed if the rest of the building is fine. There is no point in partial fixing that building .. it needs both ... and the walls.
I had this not long ago .. couple bought a property with a barn. They now wanted to take the barn and make it into a guest space and office. Build another storage building (to replace the barn storage) .... I told them to build a new cottage and office ... keep the barn for storage. To get the "barn" ready basically required it to be dismantled.
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I think this may very well be the case. It was built in '63. Back then I'm not even sure the town it's in was a town yet. So probably none or lax building codes. I picture some good ole boys throwing it up over a weekend or two while drinking lots of beers to "cool off".
Roundhouse
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If it were mine
I’d stabilize it and make sure it’s safe
And not going to get worse or collapse
And just use it
I’d stabilize it and make sure it’s safe
And not going to get worse or collapse
And just use it
Actually, leaving it alone is still one of the things I'm still considering. But the projects that I'm storing are classic cars. Two of them are shells on body carts, and none of them are worth big money, but they're still cars. If I was just storing random junk in there I definitely would just leave it.
I do think I want to stabilize the foundation though. no matter what I do to the building, if that foundation keeps dropping it won't be good for it. So I'm curious about your comment:
A bad foundation or slab -- can be fixed if the rest of the building is fine.
I wondered if leveling the foundation could de-stabilize the building to any degree. The foundation guy put a level to the floor and then to the ceiling joists directly above and said they were on the same plane, for whatever that's worth.
my point about the "foundation" ... I'm redoing an old stone building currently . part of the process includes some foundation work. To strengthen it -- not level it. Now is the time to do it ... it's worth doing. Fixing yours may not be worth it ... is it moving ? If it's not moving ...leave it alone. If you try and fix it -- level it -- the rest of the building is now going to be out ... especially the roof.
I don't know if it's moving, haven't owned it long enough to tell. I guess if I choose to fix the roof, I should do the foundation first. If I choose not to fix the roof, I shouldn't mess with the foundation.
Frankly, a lot of making that decision will be who I can find to fix the roof and what it will cost. I'm searching for framers now, we'll see what I come up with.
Frankly, a lot of making that decision will be who I can find to fix the roof and what it will cost. I'm searching for framers now, we'll see what I come up with.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Is that a problem? They are under no obligation to follow the recommendation.
The roof is fine -- you are worried about what's under the roof. Fixing the roof deck will trash the newish roof material.
What is the return? How much is the property going to gain in value with a fixed or new building? It being a rental -- says much.
That's why I made the joke in my original post about buying a decent stock and calling me in 5 years. Spend the money on something with a return ... on your main property.
rerod
Well-known member
I agree, leave it alone. But wouldn't the roof push the walls out, and not pull them in?
Sorry if I missed something.
jask
Well-known member
... both side walls are bowing in the same direction - they are falling downhill on a slab that has dropped on one side, and the apex of the bow is in the center of the wall because the end walls are providing shear resistance at the ends of the side wall, the weight of the roof assembly is pulling sideways on the tops of those side walls and the ends are better able to resist than the middle.
DW, you could probably do most of what I said without stripping all of the drywall. I would get a quote on slab jacking, you might be surprised how easily those walls straighten out on a level slab.
DW, you could probably do most of what I said without stripping all of the drywall. I would get a quote on slab jacking, you might be surprised how easily those walls straighten out on a level slab.