Blackhawk Grail

[twertsy]

Well, since I'm here at the sale, and first in line for tools, I'll post what I'm snagging today. I've never seen one of these and have been waiting for 2 weeks for this sale.

Unfortunately, some @#$&+&$ (insert your own derogatory) recently paid $450 on eBay for a nugget set and the estate sale lady saw it. So, I'm forced to pay up for this kit. On that note, for that person who bought the set on eBay, this kit is available for $5k.

Anyway, here's the one pic from the estate sale posting, and I'll post detailed pics later once it's secured. I believe this to be a salesman's briefcase from about 1952-55.

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[Oldtuleguy]

That's pretty nice. Looks like worth the $!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I feel like I've been vicariously waiting the 2 weeks with you, Todd. As I said when you first showed me that pic, I don't like to overuse the word, but in this case, it deserves an "awesome."

 

[thehorse13]

I feel like I've been vicariously waiting the 2 weeks with you, Todd. As I said when you first showed me that pic, I don't like to overuse the word, but in this case, it deserves an "awesome."

You were along for the two week ride too? lol. I was also part of the conspiracy.

 

[twertsy]

Yeah, I, too, hate it when someone else pays what something is worth. That certainly qualifies as a reason to disparage him and have negative emotions towards him. Especially when I wanted to take advantage of someone.

If it were worth that, I'd have paid it. Forgive me, I forgot our new robot society isn't supposed to have opinions......

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[twertsy]

Pics

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[Private Lugnutz]

Terrific! The "Gold Standard" of Nuggets sets in the hands of collectors. The leather (or is it vinyl?) is in great shape and you answered my unasked question about the zipper still working. That's a once-in-a-lifetime find right there, you lucky b*&$#@rd.

 

[twertsy]

Terrific! The "Gold Standard" of Nuggets sets in the hands of collectors. The leather (or is it vinyl?) is in great shape and you answered my unasked question about the zipper still working. That's a once-in-a-lifetime find right there, you lucky b*&$#@rd.

Thanks Greg. It's leather. Gotta replace that handle though!

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[Private Lugnutz]

Gotta replace that handle though!

Why?! They look original to me. And except for some scuffing near the rings, decent condition, too.

EDIT: As for the tools, it looks to be largely in near mint condition except for the few pieces with fuzz rust and those will clean up fine. The only real issue seems to be the yellow acetate handle on the driver.

EDIT2: Disregard first comment. We were talking about the material for the case and I thought you were referring to the handle. You were talking about the offgassing driver handle.

 

[Dibiase77]

That is super cool. Definitely once in a lifetime.

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[d42jeep]

Yeah. The gasses put out by the deteriorating handle have caused all of the surface rust issues on the surrounding tools. The same thing occurred on my 9/32” drive Snap-on set that Todd may remember.
-Don

 

[MR.X]

Yeah. The gasses put out by the deteriorating handle have caused all of the surface rust issues on the surrounding tools. The same thing occurred on my 9/32” drive Snap-on set that Todd may remember.
-Don

Locker Room Cancer.....that handle's bad attitude is affecting other members of the team.

 

[twertsy]

All tools are now in evaporust bath. This case is pretty cool. Inside plates are removable so I'm betting when a new line came out they just replaced the plates. All tools dated 1950.

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[JoCoSawdust]

Man I bet it was a long two weeks waiting to cast your eyes on that thing. Incredible find!

 

[CRTDI]

All tools are now in evaporust bath. This case is pretty cool. Inside plates are removable so I'm betting when a new line came out they just replaced the plates. All tools dated 1950.

That's a pretty significant 7/16" drive set find. Hopefully the rusted over pieces will clean up ok.

Are you certain of the '50 date codes? Visually, the grip line handles, speedball handle and amber handled driver appear to date this set as late 30s to early 40s.

The doe wrench set is pretty cool as well. I would also date this set as 30s to 40s.

Congrats....

 

[Craftsman C-series]

Awesome find. Love that barbell looking breaker. Congrats!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If they have a "-0", almost certainly 1940, Todd. Have to agree with CRTDI on this one. I didn't think Blackhawk was using date codes in the 50's, but even if they were, the Nugget handles would be bullet style, no?

 

[twertsy]

If they have a "-0", almost certainly 1940, Todd. Have to agree with CRTDI on this one. I didn't think Blackhawk was using date codes in the 50's, but even if they were, the Nugget handles would be bullet style, no?

I suppose you guys are right, and that jives better with the gent's life timeline. Moved from Milwaukee in 41/42 and then was a scientist for NIH. I was going by the driver handle but I see I was wrong on that as well.....1940 it is!

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[Private Lugnutz]

Hence my extreme jealousy! If it was a 50's set, I'd only me mildly envious.

I hear what you're saying on those replaceable plates, but the spine on the leather case, which is permanent, says "NUGGET", so it would technically have to be used exclusively for 7/16" stuff, right? Maybe different Nugget sets? They sold a few different sets by number and types of pieces. You could just pop them in and out and use the same case. Maybe she should scour the house!

 

[twertsy]

Hence my extreme jealousy! If it was a 50's set, I'd only me mildly envious. [emoji38]

I hear what you're saying on those replaceable plates, but the spine on the leather case, which is permanent, says "NUGGET", so it would technically have to be used exclusively for 7/16" stuff, right? Maybe different Nugget sets? They sold a few different sets by number and types of pieces. You could just pop them in and out and use the same case. Maybe she should scour the house!

She did, as did I today.

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[Private Lugnutz]

What do you think of the theory, though?

 

[3baygarage]

Very cool. Never seen the case before. Looks like it was worth the wait.

 

[twertsy]

What do you think of the theory, though?

I agree, and that's what I meant.........replaceable plates/cards for different Nugget sets.

I'm going to call her tonight and see if the 2 Nuggies boxes are still available. If so, I'll try and snag those tomorrow. I'm 99.9% positive they will still be there since yesterday she was asking $250 EACH! I didn't ask her where she got that number 'cuz well, she's nice enough but a bit "coarse" when it comes to running her estate sale business.

Good news is the Blackhawk-Armstrong ignition set in the leather roll was only $10!

 

[r_olson_06]

I agree, and that's what I meant.........replaceable plates/cards for different Nugget sets.

I'm going to call her tonight and see if the 2 Nuggies boxes are still available. If so, I'll try and snag those tomorrow. I'm 99.9% positive they will still be there since yesterday she was asking $250 EACH! I didn't ask her where she got that number 'cuz well, she's nice enough but a bit "coarse" when it comes to running her estate sale business.

Good news is the Blackhawk-Armstrong ignition set in the leather roll was only $10!

Wait there is nuggies and nuggets at one sale? Impressive find of the salesman sample. I agree 250 a set is steep.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[twertsy]

Definitely a salesman's kit. Here's the label under the right panel.

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[twertsy]

Fresh from their evaporust bath. 2 swivel sockets and the short extension took a small hit from the off-gassing handle, but this set was never used.. Also, most of the date codes have an FR code after them. Must have something to do with sales kit? Some sunny drying shots....

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[Private Lugnutz]

You could use those for utensils!

I agree, and that's what I meant.........replaceable plates/cards for different Nugget sets.

Got it. Senior moment.

she was asking $250 EACH! I didn't ask her where she got that number

Same place she got the high Nuggets number probably. When certain kinds of buyers have bottomless pockets, little to no restraint, and too much I-Gotta-Have-It-Now-ness, uninformed sellers mistake those kinds of sales as the value, when the median price of all sales is the true value, and all of a sudden the prices go up with everyone watching eBay. No other market works that way. There are spikes in every market, but sanity eventually suppresses the outliers. I sometimes wish that WorthPoint was free and mandatory for all sellers and buyers. It would ruin some good deals though and take the fun out of negotiating.

Good news is the Blackhawk-Armstrong ignition set in the leather roll was only $10!

Probably because there was no precedent on eBay for her to find. You could think of it as shaving about 25 or so bucks off the price of the Salesman kit.

Definitely a salesman's kit.

Sweet.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Definitely a salesman's kit. Here's the label under the right panel.

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Nice. I think I have seen some old heinn photo albums. Very high quality stuff.

 

[CRTDI]

I'm going to call her tonight and see if the 2 Nuggies boxes are still available. If so, I'll try and snag those tomorrow. I'm 99.9% positive they will still be there since yesterday she was asking $250 EACH! I didn't ask her where she got that number 'cuz well, she's nice enough but a bit "coarse" when it comes to running her estate sale business.

I would gladly cough up $250.00 for a minty complete "Nuggies" set with a true "Baldie" 1/4 ratchet.

Fresh from their evaporust bath. 2 swivel sockets and the short extension took a small hit from the off-gassing handle, but this set was never used.. Also, most of the date codes have an FR code after them. Must have something to do with sales kit? Some sunny drying shots.

This set is just super nice..

The FR date code suffix (maybe not part of the date code) is commonly seen on early 7/16" drive tools and on almost every 1/2" drive "Torkflash" torque wrench from the same production time period. Past speculation was thought that the FR suffix stood for "factory refurbished". It's a particular mystery that has not been resolved.

 

[3baygarage]

Wow look at those deep wells. That set's in fantastic shape.

 

[twertsy]

I would gladly cough up $250.00 for a minty complete "Nuggies" set with a true "Baldie" 1/4 ratchet.



This set is just super nice..[emoji106]

The FR date code suffix (maybe not part of the date code) is commonly seen on early 7/16" drive tools and on almost every 1/2" drive "Torkflash" torque wrench from the same production time period. Past speculation was thought that the FR suffix stood for "factory refurbished". It's a particular mystery that has not been resolved.

I don't think it's a baldie rat, but I can't see the back in the pic. Interesting on the FR, I don't recall those discussions, or seeing it before. Does seem odd that they would send Factory Replacements for a Salesman's Sample kit. Also, it's chromed over although, I guess they could rechrome during refurbishment...….

Nuggies sets for reference.

 

[CRTDI]

From an Alloy Aritifacts listing on a 3/4" ratchet:

The inset shows the date code marking "-0", which for this tool indicates production in 1940. (This ratchet model had been discontinued by 1947 or earlier.) An additional code "FR" follows the date code digit, a notation that has been observed on other Blackhawk tools as well. This might stand for "Factory Reconditioned", but meaning is still uncertain.

That Nuggies set does look nice. Appears to be a '47 or later set with included wrenches. These don't come around in this condition very often. Ratchet is not a Baldie. (no circlip holding the drive mechanism)

 

[930dreamer]

You did well on that set, congrats.

 

[twertsy]

Grabbed the Nuggies this morning. Ratchet is -0 and extension and breaker are 0. No other date codes.

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[Private Lugnutz]

Completing the trifecta!

 

[Gear Wolf]

Yeah. The gasses put out by the deteriorating handle have caused all of the surface rust issues on the surrounding tools. The same thing occurred on my 9/32” drive Snap-on set that Todd may remember.
-Don

Correct. Typically, these plastic handles are made of a butyl-acetate derivative. When with exposure to moisture, oxygen, heat, and time, you get butyric acid or derivatives. If you've ever wondered why your old screwdriver felt oily, smelled, or numbed your hands, this is why. The vapor released can damage nearby objects.

You should see what kind of havoc it can do in the GI system with someone who has an issue with their foveolar cells. It makes for an interesting autopsy.

I knew all of those years of school would pay off eventually!

 

[Gear Wolf]

That is really cool Todd! With all of your various collections, it might be time to open a museum!

Do you have data sheets on how to date Blackhawk tools?

 

[MR.X]

Same place she got the high Nuggets number probably. When certain kinds of buyers have bottomless pockets, little to no restraint, and too much I-Gotta-Have-It-Now-ness, uninformed sellers mistake those kinds of sales as the value, when the median price of all sales is the true value,....

Wait.....what "mistake" did the "uninformed" seller make?

 

[twertsy]

Wait.....what "mistake" did the "uninformed" seller make?

Pricing it way above actual value.

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[twertsy]

That is really cool Todd! With all of your various collections, it might be time to open a museum!

Do you have data sheets on how to date Blackhawk tools?

I don't, but we have a ton of cats available now.

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