Not impressed with new Channellocks quality

[MattT]

Most tradesmen around here now use Knipex Cobras or the Craftsman version for most tasks.

It's simple. CL is charging prices for their tools that other brands can meet without the cosmetic and quality problems. Why would I buy the CL when I could get better?

I didn't switch to Knipex Alligators because they're prettier, and I doubt the tradesmen you're seeing locally did either. The Knipex grip way better than Channelocks and are lighter too which is another plus.

But back to the original question Channellock fit and finish has never been great IME but does seem to have gone downhill lately. What will likely be the last thing I'll ever buy from them was a pair of needlenose a year or so back which I had to deburr. And the tips are excessively springy like knipex and the cutters **** so a performance fail too.

 

[Handyandy23]

Did you just ignore everything in his post? The finish mark in every single set where it was rusting, the sloppy jaw tips that are not ground flush, the jaws being different widths. Those are all pretty severe quality issues.

I saw the pictures, but I still don't see how any of them impede the use or longevity of the tool in any way.

The 'finish mark' is a cosmetic boo-boo. The first time you use them you'll scrape a lot more 'finish' off than that. They aren't a chromed socket that you expect to have flawless finish. That 'finish' that comes on them is just to keep them from rusting until they get to you. Once you actually use them and a lot of the coating scrapes off you'll need to use some kind of oil on them to prevent rusting anyways.

The jaw tips are pretty irrelevant to me as well - as you slide the bottom jaw into different grooves the pivot point moves and the jaws don't line up anymore. On any model. So not sure what the necessity is of them lining up perfectly when they're in the first groove. If you're using them to try and nip something with the tips, you're using the wrong pliers.

The jaw width is the only ones that irks me a little, but again it isn't going to affect the usage of the tool.

If these were a brand new product that nobody knew anything about, I'd say there's maybe a point to the assertion that these cosmetic issues might indicate a bigger quality issue. But Channellock has been making these for decades, they've been getting good reviews and people have been happy with them for decades, used heavily by tradespeople, etc. I've used mine a lot and had no issues. And they're cheap and readily available.

If people have actual quality issues that affect the usage of the tool to report, then I'm all ears. But if the only complaints are tool-polishing characteristics, then I don't really care. Go buy pliers that cost 2x-3x the price if aesthetics are that important to you.

 

[Handyandy23]

I think "better" is going to be hard to agree on, given that you and I disagree on what constitutes a quality issue. To me, generally sloppy workmanship is such an issue, whereas you've dismissed that complaint as not an "actual quality issue." To you, if they initially work, nothing else is a quality problem. I understand and respect your point of view even though I disagree with it.

That said, the answer to "what are the same price and better?" might be Milwaukee. I bought three of those in different sizes. They're priced slightly below CL, and the workmanship appears better. They just seem like a more finished product. I'll take some pictures this evening.

I'd agree that we have different definitions of quality, but I wouldn't say my only criteria is if they initially work. If there were any defects that would make me question the longevity of the tool, that would be a no-go for me. It also depends on what kind of tool we're talking about. Inexpensive pliers that are unfinished steel aren't meant to be perfect cosmetically, in my eyes.

As I said in the post above, I think your assertion is that these cosmetic issues make you question the entire quality of their process and product. But we're talking about a company that has been making these for decades, and there are literally thousands of positive reviews online you can read for them. Even if I didn't already own any CL's and have a good experience with them myself, the mountain of positive experiences from people using them heavily outweighs any of these blemishes IMO.

 

[Handyandy23]

It might be a little hard to see in a picture, but it's very noticeable in the hand:

View media item 93710
That happened despite being stored in a toolbox in a conditioned space. Do you see anything similar random panel gaps on these other pliers' grips? The smaller Gedore needle nose, Orbis EvoPlus, and Wiha side cutter are all a good bit older than the CLs.

View media item 93711
That killed CL for me. That said, I also have some CL-branded German-made (likely by Schmitz) precision pliers, and their handles have held up fine. However, their handles are the same shape and feel like the materials as Schmitz's other pliers, just in the CL colorway.



Amazon.com is "the far reaches of the earth"!?!

Here's a direct link:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H3QQ2YM/?tag=atomicindus08-20



I guess "better" depends on one's tastes and what one is accustomed to. After buying into the hype here about a pair of Snapon needlenoses (which turned out to be among the worst tools I've ever bought and definitely the worst value: ergonomically terrible due to the superwide handle spread, and with a poorly machined joint) I picked up a bunch of 8" needlenose pliers to compare. By a "bunch" I think I bought 14 or 15 in addition to the ones I already had on hand. CLs weren't among them. I wanted to stick to:
-makers I knew from experience to make quality pliers, such as Gedore, NWS, Schmitz, and VBW/Stahlwille (in addition to Knipex, Klein, Wiha, Orbis already on hand)
-Facom, because they have a good reputation and features such as spring loading, but I'd never actually held a pair before
-pliers rebranders who generally offer quality tools, such as Hazet, Bernstein, and Elora
-ones I'd never heard of before looking around that intrigued me due to features or price, such as SAM from France, Urrea from Mexico, and Tsunoda from Japan, and Wiha Inomic from Germany.

In this company, the Tsunoda's were so far the biggest positive surprise. I think they were the cheapest ones I bought, but except for dipped handles they really don't give anything up. Size-wise they're also an interesting tweener: thicker and shorter jaws than DIN-pattern but thinner and longer than Klein.



Some of the others are admittedly more, but the standard 10" Knipex Cobra is what, $25-35? Do the CL's cost $5-8?

What's the actual size of that "split"? I thought you meant like the handles actually came apart. To each their own, but that's a pretty tiny gap. It also looks like there's a gouge out of the red part of the handle just below your "split" that would possibly indicate you squeezed the handles rubbing against something hard and sharp. Maybe the same object that gouged the red part dragged on the seam and pulled the blue part of the handle away from the red in that small area? Seems odd it would come apart in such a small spot just sitting in a tool box.

My "far reaches of the earth" comment was more because I can see from other threads, and now this last post, that you really enjoy your tools from all over Europe and Asia. Brands that aren't "common" here in North America. That's great if that's your thing and what you prefer, but I think we have two very differing views on pliers and tools.

I like my Channellocks because they are easy to source (right down the street), inexpensive, last a long time, and work well. I like the dipped handles and the utility of them. You seem to prefer the big comfort handles, and comparing a dozen of the same type of plier from all over the world and picking out tiny differences between them.

There's nothing wrong with that or having differing views on tools and how we use them, but I'd also say that tools like CL's that don't fit your mold of what you like, doesn't make them "bad" tools. They're made for a different customer. If they fall apart and are junky then they aren't made for anyone. But if there's a whole slew of people out there using and abusing them, and you prefer something with more fit and finish, it doesn't mean the CL's are lower quality. They're just meant for people that don't want to pay extra for perfect finishes.

 

[Handyandy23]

If a barely discernible split in a handle of a tool will ruin a brand for you then I don't want to bother with your opinion on tools that are meant to be USED.

We have hundreds of guys on one jobsite, guess what brand is in use by 99% of em? and they are used harder than anything in your box day in and day out without issue. It's ridiculous to see tool polishers whine about petty details that no one else would be bothered with

 

[dwasifar]

I think your assertion is that these cosmetic issues make you question the entire quality of their process and product. But we're talking about a company that has been making these for decades, and there are literally thousands of positive reviews online you can read for them. Even if I didn't already own any CL's and have a good experience with them myself, the mountain of positive experiences from people using them heavily outweighs any of these blemishes IMO.

Fair enough. You make a good case.

I guess we'll see if the Milwaukee perform as well. If they don't, well, I promise to come back for that slice of crow pie.

 

[JBH]

If a barely discernible split in a handle of a tool will ruin a brand for you then I don't want to bother with your opinion on tools that are meant to be USED.

"Hard to photograph" is not the same as "barely discernible."

As for use, you have a fair point if your use is with gloved hands. However, from actual first hand experience with the actual unit in question, these cutters will leave lines in your hand after cutting 6 wires in the course of installing a light fixture due to the split between the two materials. Not acceptable, especially when everybody else seems to have figured out how to make handles that don't split apart.

What's the actual size of that "split"? I thought you meant like the handles actually came apart.

I'm not going to take a micrometer to it, but I only photographed the most visually obvious section. You can feel splits along the edge on both sides of both grips.

My "far reaches of the earth" comment was more because I can see from other threads, and now this last post, that you really enjoy your tools from all over Europe and Asia. Brands that aren't "common" here in North America.

I like high quality, smart design, consistent build quality, and good value. I have no patience for mediocre quality, bad design, inconsistent build quality, or poor value. Or provincialism.

That said, I suspect the dipped handle model of these side cutters would be good enough, and are presumably cheaper. A side cutter is not a tool that needs to be particularly excellent.

 

[PartsGuy]

I am definitely a CL fanboy, but most all of mine are older stock. The clear that they have been using for the last 10+ years does make the newer ones look pretty ugly, as the rust creeps under the clear once scratched. I prefer the "raw" look of an aged pair anyway, but I'm not about to go scrub the clear off the newer ones I do have. Bottom line is that the stuff I have works well, was made well, and the original blue vinyl grips have held up on most all of mine (although some have become more "green" with age). I don't like the red/blue comfort grips at all, so I don't have any long-term experience with them.

 

[measuredtwice]

I honestly don't understand the significance of the gap. I can barely see anything in the photo. But I have a few oldies (from other brands) that don't have any grips at all--haha!

The talk about the jaws lining up reminded me of this video. I don't normally watch "EDC" or Zombie Apocalypse preparedness videos but I had wanted to get a better idea of size of the mini Knipex and it was the 1st search hit. In the video he says that you have to open the jaws to the 2nd notch for the jaws to line up. I thought it was odd because my larger Knipex pliers line up at the 1st notch.

Knipex are very high quality pliers. Don't know if that's variation in production or what. But I can't say I really know what would be considered within spec. A water pump pliers is not used the same as a linesmans pliers or needle nose.

 

[American Locomotive]

If people have actual quality issues that affect the usage of the tool to report, then I'm all ears. But if the only complaints are tool-polishing characteristics, then I don't really care. Go buy pliers that cost 2x-3x the price if aesthetics are that important to you.

Okay, if fit & finish don't matter - why should I bother buying anything more expensive than a HF $3 pair of locking pliers?

 

[ChrisLS8]

Then trim the piece that sticks out wtf. Complaining about getting a line in someone's delicate man paws is beyond picky. Does the tool make good crimps? Bet it does

 

[1982fxr]

Okay, if fit & finish don't matter - why should I bother buying anything more expensive than a HF $3 pair of locking pliers?

You shouldn't. You should buy a bunch of them. Who wants just one ****** tool when you can have a bunch?

 

[measuredtwice]

You shouldn't. You should buy a bunch of them. Who wants just one ****** tool when you can have a bunch?

Haha! I don't want one or a bunch of sh---- tools! The OP has posted at least 2 new topics about his dislike of Channellock and at least one glowing review of a HF screwdriver that I wouldn't take for free... and a preview of an upcoming review of a larger set of made in China screwdrivers. Haven't searched the post history further.

 

[American Locomotive]

Then trim the piece that sticks out wtf. Complaining about getting a line in someone's delicate man paws is beyond picky. Does the tool make good crimps? Bet it does

...why should someone have to grind the jaws so they're the same width AND the same length on a brand new pair of pliers, when cheap HF pliers can do the same?

The apologists on here amaze me sometimes. Would you have no problem if all the badges on your car were put on upside down? After all, they don't impact how the car operates....

 

[measuredtwice]

...why should someone have to grind the jaws so they're the same width AND the same length on a brand new pair of pliers, when cheap HF pliers can do the same?

The apologists on here amaze me sometimes. Would you have no problem if all the badges on your car were put on upside down? After all, they don't impact how the car operates....

Is the car is $9 delivered for free across the country to my location? If so, sure!

It's more that I think there's an agenda and trend behind the OP's posts rather than apologize for sometimes reasonable and often overblown criticisms of some of the least expensive US-made tools available from one of the few remaining companies that has managed to keep its doors open while most others didn't.

 

[Yarpo]

Here's two of my pliers, one of thems old enough it doesn't say "Channellock USA" it actually says Meadville PA, and the jaws actually line up on that one. That said the other one is used more often these days and it hasn't given me any issues. It's actually so far off I figured it had to be a feature. The whole lower jaw is significantly smaller but it works all the same to me. Even if there is a decline in craftsmanship and the details, the reason I and many people buy these is because they stand the tests of time, and the teeth are not garbage. Going with the cars comparison, you may be able to find equal cars from a price and feature standpoint, but hows the reliability? Your ford might have more issues then the Honda, even tho they're priced the same, and I think that's what keeps people buying channellock as well as defending them.

 

[tonyciambrone]

SK and CL are basically beyond reproach with a lot of members here.

Criticism is only allowed to call imported tools junk.

 

[measuredtwice]

Here's one of my mine. It's more subtle than the one in the photo above. Never caused any problems.

 

[measuredtwice]

SK and CL are basically beyond reproach with a lot of members here.

Criticism is only allowed to call imported tools junk.

Some of my best tools are imported. From Switzerland, Germany, Japan, Czech Republic.

 

[JBH]

Does the tool make good crimps? Bet it does

I’ve never tried to tried to make crimps with a side cutter. I use...crimpers for that task. You know, right tool for the job and all that. I even use the correct die for each connector. Crazy, right?

I suppose if one can’t tell the difference between a crimper and a cutter, one won’t be bothered by more subtle flaws that are obvious to more observant people.

 

[Handyandy23]

Okay, if fit & finish don't matter - why should I bother buying anything more expensive than a HF $3 pair of locking pliers?

Because there's a line between "doesn't look pretty" and "doesn't work properly or last very long". It's not that hard of a concept. A few people have shown in this thread CL's they've used for decades.

I've had plenty of bargain priced no-name pliers that were junk. And it wasn't because they weren't pretty enough. Handles that fell off in no time, or twisted. Teeth that were like butter. Pivots that fell completely apart.

Channellocks on the other hand have dipped grips that last the test of time, hard teeth that last, and overall sturdy construction. They're not polished chrome, but they weren't meant to be. They get a little surface rust, but they just work. Unlike really cheap pliers.

If you want to pay double the price for looks that's fine. But you'd have to be oblivious to think $3 HF pliers will last or work as well as CL's when it comes to doing actual work beyond polishing.

 

[M6erfan]

Dang, this thread made go look at my 20 year old 430's. Jaws line up perfectly, go figure

 

[Handyandy23]

SK and CL are basically beyond reproach with a lot of members here.

Criticism is only allowed to call imported tools junk.

I'm all for objective evidence, but when a "tool review" consists of a scratch in the finish, and jaws that don't like up perfectly that weren't meant to line up, and no actual feedback on using the tool or important aspects like hardness of teeth, it doesn't pass the sniff test.

I'd say the majority of my tools are "imported junk", but I do like the value my CL's bring. And if there is what I view as a bad take on a tool discussion forum about them, then I'll say so. And I do the same thing for Taiwan made Tekton ratchets or any other COO tool.

Really the "oh everyone just defends then because US made" argument is a cop out. Do you have an experience with Channellock pliers to share? Or is this just your hot take on this from a distance?

 

[M6erfan]

I...and jaws that don't like up perfectly that weren't meant to line up...

Wait, the jaws aren't meant to line up? Then mine are certainly defective. I'll be calling CL in the morning complaining about mine that have perfectly aligned jaws...

 

[tonyciambrone]

Some of my best tools are imported. From Switzerland, Germany, Japan, Czech Republic.

GJ terminology
imported=chinese

 

[Handyandy23]

Wait, the jaws aren't meant to line up? Then mine are certainly defective. I'll be calling CL in the morning complaining about mine that have perfectly aligned jaws...

Maybe not meant to be isn't the right wording . . . it doesn't matter if they are! Does anyone use the tip of water pump pliers to flush grab something? There are certain types of pliers that need jaw alignment, and this isn't one of them.

Not to mention once you move them to any groove other than the first, the jaw alignment goes way out the window. If the tips don't align in 5 of 6 positions, does it really matter if they are perfect in that one other position?

 

[tonyciambrone]

I'm all for objective evidence, but when a "tool review" consists of a scratch in the finish, and jaws that don't like up perfectly that weren't meant to line up, and no actual feedback on using the tool or important aspects like hardness of teeth, it doesn't pass the sniff test.

I'd say the majority of my tools are "imported junk", but I do like the value my CL's bring. And if there is what I view as a bad take on a tool discussion forum about them, then I'll say so. And I do the same thing for Taiwan made Tekton ratchets or any other COO tool.

Really the "oh everyone just defends then because US made" argument is a cop out. Do you have an experience with Channellock pliers to share? Or is this just your hot take on this from a distance?

yeah I'll post my Channellock groove joints sometime. They also have poor fit and finish. I have a pair of end cutting pliers and long reach needlenose that are pretty good. I'm just saying there is a certain way that ..some... members here respond to criticism of CL and SK specifically. You're pretty much proving that point. so many excuses will be made for these two companies that just aren't extended to certain tool importers. These flaws qualify them as "junk", but all it means for CL and SK is that you need to quit crying, stop polishing tools, go use them, they are fine.

mostly I think it is nostalgia and people can't let their conception of these icons change. just my 0.02, or hot take or whatever

 

[measuredtwice]

yeah I'll post my Channellock groove joints sometime. They also have poor fit and finish. I have a pair of end cutting pliers and long reach needlenose that are pretty good. I'm just saying there is a certain way that ..some... members here respond to criticism of CL and SK specifically. You're pretty much proving that point. so many excuses will be made for these two companies that just aren't extended to certain tool importers. These flaws qualify them as "junk", but all it means for CL and SK is that you need to quit crying, stop polishing tools, go use them, they are fine.

mostly I think it is nostalgia and people can't let their conception of these icons change. just my 0.02, or hot take or whatever

I see another trend. Look at the OP's posts. 2 Channellock complaints. But a couple dollar Harbor Freight screwdriver gets GLOWING reviews from him... not just good reviews but over the top praise. I don't find the harbor freight screwdriver at all desirable. I could understand someone thinking it was good enough but praise is not reasonable. And he's got another screwdriver set incoming from China.

The OP's wife works at a store that sells Channellock. He couldn't look them over to see if it's what he wanted before buying? He couldn't have picked out one without a rust spot??

 

[dwasifar]

Haha! I don't want one or a bunch of sh---- tools! The OP has posted at least 2 new topics about his dislike of Channellock and at least one glowing review of a HF screwdriver that I wouldn't take for free... and a preview of an upcoming review of a larger set of made in China screwdrivers. Haven't searched the post history further.

If you had, you'd have seen a glowing review of a set of Channellock screwdrivers. But you go ahead and stick with your preconceptions.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=423767

Oh, and for everyone else who doesn't want to bother to follow up and see what measuredtwice is talking about, here's my "glowing" review with "over the top praise" of the HF Quinn screwdrivers:

Who's tried the Quinn screwdrivers?

I bought a two-pack, #2 Phillips and 1/4" slotted. It was an impulse purchase just to try them out, because they were only $3.49. Not like I need more screwdrivers, but hey, $3.49.

I've only used the Phillips once so far, but it seemed pretty good. Nice comfortable handle with a flared oval profile toward the middle. Easy to get a good grip on.

I don't know how long they'll hold up, but for that price they're disposable anyway.

Any other opinions?

I replaced an exterior door today and decided to just use the Quinn drivers to see how I liked them. They worked fine until I had to drive a Phillips screw into a recessed hole while setting a deadbolt. Then the square shaft became a problem. Other than that they were great.

Yeah, I really pulled out all the stops to lavish praise on those screwdrivers, boy. Wow. You'd think they were god to me or something.

I had a lot more good things to say about the Channellock screwdrivers. But that doesn't seem to fit your narrative, so you just go ahead and ignore it.

 

[dwasifar]

I'm all for objective evidence, but when a "tool review" consists of a scratch in the finish, and jaws that don't like up perfectly that weren't meant to line up, and no actual feedback on using the tool or important aspects like hardness of teeth, it doesn't pass the sniff test.

I never claimed it was a tool review. I was simply documenting visible flaws and opening a discussion.

I'm a little disappointed in this, actually. I thought you and I were having a respectful conversation about tool quality. You made your point well and gave me food for thought, and I gave you credit for that. Why you gotta turn on me now?

 

[measuredtwice]

I may have mixed up that topic and other HF topic. They all tend to sound the same. But you were far more critical of the Channellock screwdrivers and pliers than the HF screwdrivers. And I'm sure won't have much of anything at all negative to say about the $12 made in China screwdrivers either.

 

[American Locomotive]

It's just bizarre. Chinese/Taiwanese tools get blasted on here for fit & finish problems, even if they're otherwise functional. I can't tell you how many threads I've seen on here where people compare the thickness of the chrome plating on Taiwanese sockets vs. their favorite American ones.

I may have mixed up that topic and other HF topic. They all tend to sound the same. But you were far more critical of the Channellock screwdrivers and pliers than the HF screwdrivers. And I'm sure won't have much of anything at all negative to say about the $12 made in China screwdrivers either.

The Channellock screw-drivers cost nearly $6/driver in that 10 piece set, when the HF screwdrivers are $1.75 each in that two-pack. I think it's pretty reasonable to be more critical of a tool that effectively costs 3x more.

 

[dwasifar]

I may have mixed up that topic and other HF topic. They all tend to sound the same. But you were far more critical of the Channellock screwdrivers than the HF screwdrivers. And I'm sure won't have much of anything at all negative to say about the $12 made in China screwdrivers either.

The Channellock screwdrivers cost about four times what the HF drivers did. It was $60 for a set of 10. You bet my expectations were higher. The Quinn drivers are better than they should be for what they are and what they cost. I put the CL drivers under more scrutiny because they're being sold and promoted as "professional."

My expectation is that the China drivers will be junk. That's why I ordered them, to see if that's true. But why bother telling you? You've just said you've already made your mind up about what I think, before I even have a chance to think it, let alone say it.

 

[dwasifar]

Oh, and just for the record: The more I use the CL drivers, the more I like them. If I lost or broke them I would buy them again in a heartbeat. They're what an acetate handled driver should be.

I also have a Channellock adjustable wrench that's the first one I grab if I need one. So there's that. I don't have a vendetta against Channellock or whatever it is you think.

Oh, and lineman's pliers too. Almost forgot those. Love 'em, no complaints.

 

[ChrisLS8]

I’ve never tried to tried to make crimps with a side cutter. I use...crimpers for that task. You know, right tool for the job and all that. I even use the correct die for each connector. Crazy, right?

I suppose if one can’t tell the difference between a crimper and a cutter, one won’t be bothered by more subtle flaws that are obvious to more observant people.

I barely glanced at the picture and I have a 7 year old pair of 909CBs so I assumed they were crimpers. I don't spend my time primping over small details. I have plenty of Knipex and CL and they both do what they need to do at different price points

 

[measuredtwice]

The Channellock screwdrivers cost about four times what the HF drivers did. It was $60 for a set of 10. You bet my expectations were higher. The Quinn drivers are better than they should be for what they are and what they cost. I put the CL drivers under more scrutiny because they're being sold and promoted as "professional."

My expectation is that the China drivers will be junk. That's why I ordered them, to see if that's true. But why bother telling you? You've just said you've already made your mind up about what I think, before I even have a chance to think it, let alone say it.

On the interwebz I often see people sent samples from China for an "honest" review take over reddit and other forums. Some claim they purchase the products but sometimes the products are not even available yet. Some groups have even started limiting the number of reviews that can be posted since the paid "honest" reviews started flooding their groups. I hope that I am wrong. But I've seen it again and again.

If you paid $60 then you paid about as much as I did for my PB Swiss drivers. I don't know why you would. The Channellock stuff is all over, including your wife's store. One look at it on the racks and I see that it is entry level stuff. But the stuff that I've seen is also low in price. The Channellock pliers are very basic but they have high utility... and cheap... cheaper than some of the stuff that they've been compared to in this topic.

Expectations are different based on price. But a review or study or whatever you want to call it should still be critical of cheapos. You can just say that you found those flaws/downsides acceptable at the price point. Otherwise it is misleading if HF gets no criticism or is called "great".

 

[dwasifar]

On the interwebz I often see people sent samples from China for an "honest" review take over reddit and other forums. Some claim they purchase the products but sometimes the products are not even available yet. Some groups have even started limiting the number of reviews that can be posted since the paid "honest" reviews started flooding their groups. I hope that I am wrong. But I've seen it again and again.

If you paid $60 then you paid about as much as I did for my PB Swiss drivers. I don't know why you would. The Channellock stuff is all over, including your wife's store. One look at it on the racks and I see that it is entry level stuff. But the stuff that I've seen is also low in price. The Channellock pliers are very basic but they have high utility... and cheap... cheaper than some of the stuff that they've been compared to in this topic.

Expectations are different based on price. But a review or study or whatever you want to call it should still be critical of cheapos. You can just say that you found those flaws/downsides acceptable at the price point. Otherwise it is misleading.

I could. With the Quinn drivers, I thought it was obvious from context that I was saying, "these are not bad for as cheap as they are," given that I started out by saying they were cheap and disposable. And it wasn't really intended as a full review, just a quick impression. But yeah, it wouldn't hurt to be explicit about that rather than assume it goes without saying.

I didn't even know Lowe's had CL until this purchase. Most of what you see hanging on the pegs there is Irwin, Craftsman, and a few sorry old Kobalt pieces with clearance tags. But when the set I ordered from Amazon came up short, I went looking for where I could get a set locally, and Lowe's had them, so I texted my wife and had her bring me home a set. (Which, by the way, answers your question about why I didn't inspect them closely in the store.) They were on a promotional rack somewhere else in the store, far from the rest of the pliers.

I've never actually seen the CL screwdrivers for sale at a brick and mortar store anywhere. I ordered that set on the internet from a farm supply outlet in Kansas because I was excited to see what promised to be a new high-end USA product, as opposed to the more basic USA acetates you see in the big box stores. And after a few bumps in the road, they live up to what I hoped for. I'm sure your PB Swiss are great too.

I give you my word as a gentleman that I did not accept the China drivers (or anything else) for free in exchange for a review. They were listed for $12 on Aliexpress, and I paid $12. Or $15, or whatever it was. If they're junk, I'll say so. If they're not completely junk, I'll say that. If they're wonderful, I'll say that, although I think I'll scan the skies for flying pigs before I do.

 

[anetode]

Going with the cars comparison, you may be able to find equal cars from a price and feature standpoint, but hows the reliability? Your ford might have more issues then the Honda, even tho they're priced the same, and I think that's what keeps people buying channellock as well as defending them.

I can't help but say that you've got that comparison almost exactly completely backwards.

If you want to pay double the price for looks that's fine. But you'd have to be oblivious to think $3 HF pliers will last or work as well as CL's when it comes to doing actual work beyond polishing.

Funny thing is that people usually turn to the China/Taiwan stuff first when really beating on tools, yet there are plenty of cases where they do survive and work as well as CLs. And people certainly do call out crappy fit and finish on those tools, even though they're in a price bracket below CL.

 

[visionguru]

...
It's more that I think there's an agenda and trend behind the OP's posts rather than apologize for sometimes reasonable and often overblown criticisms of some of the least expensive US-made tools available from one of the few remaining companies that has managed to keep its doors open while most others didn't.

Some of my best tools are imported. From Switzerland, Germany, Japan, Czech Republic.

That's your only defense? Because a tool is made in USA, we should ignore obvious flaws.

These hand tools are very cheap and easy to make. COO doesn't mean a thing, it's determined by cost. Cheap German/Japan stuff are junk too. I found that Swiss tools are nice, but they are expensive, almost too expensive, for example $50 for a pair of Dumont tweezers.

 

[Yarpo]

I can't help but say that you've got that comparison almost exactly completely backwards.

How so? Do you think most people polled would rate ford as having better reliability than Honda? Consumer reports tend to agree that Honda usually ranks better than ford, but if you've got a better place to look up reliability rankings let me know.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgor...east-reliable-rides-on-the-road/#6ca4682052c7

https://www.latimes.com/business/la...-auto-reliability-ratings-20131028-story.html